Magicka Sorc DPS still viable!

rokrdt05

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

I wouldn't say easy either, but more of a dedication to find a rotation that works.

I do not main a sorc. The last time I truly played my sorc was before the Imperial City Update. With that being said, I had to essentially relearn the sorc in order to work on this. As I originally stated, it took me an entire evening and then the next day to grind up skills to reach this goal.

I consider myself fairly decent at coming up with rotations that are easy and maintain high dps... so the fact that I could hop on a class that I do not main, have not played since IC update, and spend one evening working out a rotation tells me that it's doable.Would you be able to pull 30k+ off the bat? Probably not, I didn't. But giving practice, rotation refinement, and patients you can get pretty damn close or over. That parse could have easily been over 32K with no lag on my end. So I do firmly believe 20K is more than doable by the average player base.

hedna123b14_ESO

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

Do you have low CP? That may be the issue. I really think that by practicing a rotation you can break that 20k. I know that every sorc I have ever come across who has practiced their rotation can pull 25k+ on bloodspawn. If you are on NA server I wouldn't mind getting together to see what you're doing and figure out a way to make you hit hard. Let me know if you'd like to do that.

hedna123b14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Again your single target estimates are off man...it hits for 30k+ single target...

hedna123b14_ESO

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

So I am a very analytical person so i am going to give you some statistics

1. I have a sorc, but I don't play it too often.
2. Nearly all of the people I have played with or are in my guild have sorcs
3. Each and every one of them has hit 25k+ DPS
4. Very few of them have a vMA staff
5. Some of them have only leveled a sorc recently

So if multiple people are telling you that it is easy, than maybe you can entertain the notion that the problem lies with you. Now that being said, I am not trying to make you feel bad. I propose that we meet up and I can take a look at what you are doing. I am confident I can help you break 20k easy and will get you to 25k consistent DPS.

hedna123b14_ESO

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>

I finished nMSA and it was basically everything wrong with the game rolled up into one incredibly poorly designed, badly thought out and painful to play dungeon. So yeah, not doing that on Vet mode.

I've looked at the numbers and the Maelstrom staff really isn't that much better than a weapon-damage enchant "normal" staff. It gives a little weapon damage and damage to elemental blockade. Look at the numbers yourself and you'll see it's not all that great. It's not massively OP like the bow. And it certainly will >not< give 8K DPS all by itself, which is what I would need to get to a consistent 25K+ single-target.

You are correct regarding the vMA staff not giving you 8k dps, but you are way off when it comes to the staff's bonus, it is significant (2-3K DPS).

Grao

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Again your single target estimates are off man...it hits for 30k+ single target...

I am missing the Maelstrom Lightning Staff unfortunately and I don't like VMA so, yes, ~30k does sound correct as I was hitting single target for about ~25k without having practiced the rotation for a very long period.

hedna123b14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

.

That a very well point made, but when you suggest to others this build's potential single target DPS without letting them know that you dont have the exact gear that maximizes its potential, you are not properly describing the build and turning people away from something that is quiet useful, especially in the new trials.

Grao

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

.

That a very well point made, but when you suggest to others this build's potential single target DPS without letting them know that you dont have the exact gear that maximizes its potential, you are not properly describing the build and turning people away from something that is quiet useful, especially in the new trials.

lol you quoted me when it bugged on Edit mode XD But true enough, I should have mentioned that I was lacking the staff.

Emma_Overload

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

Instant

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

What about the other classes?

Grao

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

Well, yes... But we are talking about best possible DPS and that entails best possible gear. Other classes would also do lesser DPS if you used a less optimal rotation and lesser gear... I am not sure I see your point.

Sorcerers are harder to play and even when played to their best potential they are not the best DPS, specially when thrown against Stamina Builds, but the problems with the class go far beyond numbers, into game play. There are simply too many skills that are just dissatisfying, not working properly or completely missing from the kit.

Emma_Overload

Instant wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

What about the other classes?

I'm sure Nightblades and DKs can get more with the same gear, but I can't prove it because I don't have comparable alts in those classes myself.

hedna123b14_ESO

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

The OP clearly has no buffs and no Kena and he is getting 30k on bloodspawn with no buffs. Potions can be substitutedone for surge, which will lose you DPS but still get you a high amount.

Foxic

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

Well it's the norm to do blood spawn parses without warhorn and only self buffs so I don't see why you added that first bit. And what's the point of showing a parse without maximum effort(bis gear and potions)? That parse is not at all indicative of what a sorcerer can do solo blood spawn. You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers

hedna123b14_ESO

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:



All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.

I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.

Well it's the norm to do blood spawn parses without warhorn and only self buffs so I don't see why you added that first bit. And what's the point of showing a parse without maximum effort(bis gear and potions)? That parse is not at all indicative of what a sorcerer can do solo blood spawn. You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers

Just so you know when you take a look at the damage that Dawnbreaker plus it's empowered DoT does and divide it by its ulti cost and you do the same for Shooting Star, shooting Star comes out on top even on single target. This is due to it's ulti gen long DoT time and the fact that it gets a 10% buff from engulfing.

Francescolg

Grao wrote: »

@Wrobel 's responses in that Q&A plus how the guys in ESO Live laughed when they were answering questions about sorcerers..

Can you link the video please!?
Or tell me which episode/date it was, please!

psychotic13

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

Pallio

I am happy some people still love their sorc, and find a way to continue enjoying the game. It is not like ZOS is going to un-nerf them anytime soon, regardless of how much we whine here about, remember the Mag DK days of glory, they have since been slightly un-nerfed, but, nothing close to their previous level of uberness...

Really all you can do is; make it work, find a different class/build you like or quit... Hope everyone keeps picking the 1st two options.

Grao

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.

psychotic13

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.

Or maybe you're still trying to play an out of date build to no avail? Because you don't like the current conditions it doesn't mean there isn't a viable combination that pays off.

And maybe not stronger in PvE, I don't really PvE so wouldn't have a valid opinion there, but in PvP, yes my sorc is stronger and I'm playing better than before.

I wasn't playing my sorcerer wrong before, but maybe you're playing your sorcere wrong now?

Grao

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.

Or maybe you're still trying to play an out of date build to no avail? Because you don't like the current conditions it doesn't mean there isn't a viable combination that pays off.

And maybe not stronger in PvE, I don't really PvE so wouldn't have a valid opinion there, but in PvP, yes my sorc is stronger and I'm playing better than before.

I wasn't playing my sorcerer wrong before, but maybe you're playing your sorcere wrong now?

Is your capacity to read somewhat diminished? If I am running tests on the PTS clearly I am trying different builds. >.>

I am mainly a PvEr though, so my opinions and evaluation of the class are mainly regarding PvE. You can say your evaluation regarding PvP differs from mine and that is fine, though I will point out sorcerers are, from a numbers point of view, likely the least popular class for PvP at the moment. From all I've read and the few times I did bothered taking my sorcerer to Cyrodiil, our best use is with Negate.

NBrookus

jknight201 wrote: »

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

@jknight201

My sorc was stuck at 15k for a long time. Then one day at about the 6 month mark it just clicked and I started hitting 20k+. (That's without a VMA lightning staff, although I do have one now.) Once I got my Undaunted leveled I mostly only PvP'd on my sorc, and I don't know if that hastened or slowed my progress; you don't use the same rotation but you do have to think a lot harder and faster in PvP.

I feel your frustration, though. My templar was hitting 25k right off the bat. (But not, not with a single skill.) And templars are not encrusted with toggles.

Francescolg wrote: »

Let'em play Magicka Templar in PvP, if they really think it is stronger than sorc..!! I love it to interrupt their casted/channeled skills

And I love to reflect frags back in a sorcs face 3 seconds after they cast their HW.

psychotic13

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.

Or maybe you're still trying to play an out of date build to no avail? Because you don't like the current conditions it doesn't mean there isn't a viable combination that pays off.

And maybe not stronger in PvE, I don't really PvE so wouldn't have a valid opinion there, but in PvP, yes my sorc is stronger and I'm playing better than before.

I wasn't playing my sorcerer wrong before, but maybe you're playing your sorcere wrong now?

Is your capacity to read somewhat diminished? If I am running tests on the PTS clearly I am trying different builds. >.>

I am mainly a PvEr though, so my opinions and evaluation of the class are mainly regarding PvE. You can say your evaluation regarding PvP differs from mine and that is fine, though I will point out sorcerers are, from a numbers point of view, likely the least popular class for PvP at the moment. From all I've read and the few times I did bothered taking my sorcerer to Cyrodiil, our best use is with Negate.

well you said you were running tests, you didn't actually elaborate on that, and I'm guessing none of them were successful as you still have a negative view about the sorc.

psychotic13

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?

I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.

If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.

Or maybe you're still trying to play an out of date build to no avail? Because you don't like the current conditions it doesn't mean there isn't a viable combination that pays off.

And maybe not stronger in PvE, I don't really PvE so wouldn't have a valid opinion there, but in PvP, yes my sorc is stronger and I'm playing better than before.

I wasn't playing my sorcerer wrong before, but maybe you're playing your sorcere wrong now?

Is your capacity to read somewhat diminished? If I am running tests on the PTS clearly I am trying different builds. >.>

I am mainly a PvEr though, so my opinions and evaluation of the class are mainly regarding PvE. You can say your evaluation regarding PvP differs from mine and that is fine, though I will point out sorcerers are, from a numbers point of view, likely the least popular class for PvP at the moment. From all I've read and the few times I did bothered taking my sorcerer to Cyrodiil, our best use is with Negate.

well you said you were running tests, you didn't actually elaborate on that, and I'm guessing none of them were successful as you still have a negative view about the sorc.

And yes, you're probably right they are the least popular, but that's because people have just seen the huge negativity around the class and believe it without trying a few things first. that also makes other people think wtf just happened when they get destroyed by the so underpowered sorc.

Out of curiosity what do you think a sorc is lacking to give you such an opinion? (I'm talking more in terms of PvP cause that's what I play, occasionally run 4 man dungeons)

mrdaveqc

Good for pve now try it in pvp ! Rip

jknight201

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>

I finished nMSA and it was basically everything wrong with the game rolled up into one incredibly poorly designed, badly thought out and painful to play dungeon. So yeah, not doing that on Vet mode.

I've looked at the numbers and the Maelstrom staff really isn't that much better than a weapon-damage enchant "normal" staff. It gives a little weapon damage and damage to elemental blockade. Look at the numbers yourself and you'll see it's not all that great. It's not massively OP like the bow. And it certainly will >not< give 8K DPS all by itself, which is what I would need to get to a consistent 25K+ single-target.

I think most of us don't really like VMA or even the normal mode for it... The only reason we do it several times is to get the weapon we need, afterall, what is the point of solo raid content? I am sorry, at least for me the fun of raiding is in doing it with a bunch of friends talking in voice and all that...

I haven't really talked to anyone who thinks MSA is actually fun. You're right, the only reason people play it is for the weapons and the scores (leaderboard and weekly).

The fun in raiding is doing it with your friends and guildies, for sure.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

Actually the spell damage portion of the enchant I consider the bonus. The best part of it is the bonus damage to your staff weaves. It can easily add 3-4K dps just with having Blockade down and weaving your attacks. At least that has been the experience with me. I prefer to medium weave and with Blockade down and buffs my med weaves easily hit for 16K+ on hard crits.

In fact, I'll drive this a bit further. If you take a look at the parses in the original post... you'll see that my weaves account for a HUGE chunk of my DPS. Sorc was 15%, NB's was 18%, and my templars was 12%... all done with a VMA Destro staff. That's extremely high boost to dps.

I'm still not convinced that it is a huge improvement over a normal staff with a damage enchant, as that damage enchant is increasing all other damage - not just staff damage.

Assume that a Maelstrom staff does 20% more damage than a normal staff. That's a totally unrealistic assumption, but let's pretend. Ok, for your sorc, staff damage was 15% of your overall damage. A 20% boost to 15% of your damage would take a 15K DPS sorc to 15.45K DPS. Such a small increase as to be completely irrelevant. Now consider that a Maelstrom staff probably does 3-5% more damage that a weapon damage-enchanted staff, when you consider the boost to all other damage, and you can see my point.

jknight201

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

I wouldn't say easy either, but more of a dedication to find a rotation that works.

I do not main a sorc. The last time I truly played my sorc was before the Imperial City Update. With that being said, I had to essentially relearn the sorc in order to work on this. As I originally stated, it took me an entire evening and then the next day to grind up skills to reach this goal.

I consider myself fairly decent at coming up with rotations that are easy and maintain high dps... so the fact that I could hop on a class that I do not main, have not played since IC update, and spend one evening working out a rotation tells me that it's doable.Would you be able to pull 30k+ off the bat? Probably not, I didn't. But giving practice, rotation refinement, and patients you can get pretty damn close or over. That parse could have easily been over 32K with no lag on my end. So I do firmly believe 20K is more than doable by the average player base.

Well, I've been playing a sorc as my main for over 6 months now, and I cannot reliably break 20K DPS. I'd love for someone to show me what I'm doing wrong. If you have low DPS, people immediately assume you don't have your CP allocated correctly, aren't using the right gear, aren't using the right abilities, aren't using the right rotation, etc. But when they talk to you and you are ... then there's just nowhere left for improvement except another class.

The other sorcs in my guild have the same problem. While it's great to watch a few elite players get 35K+ DPS, we've reached the conclusion that the vast, vast majority of sorc players aren't going to be able to do better than 15K or so. At the same time, for PVE content, a mag Templar can literally just pound on a single key and get 20-25K.

jknight201

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

Do you have low CP? That may be the issue. I really think that by practicing a rotation you can break that 20k. I know that every sorc I have ever come across who has practiced their rotation can pull 25k+ on bloodspawn. If you are on NA server I wouldn't mind getting together to see what you're doing and figure out a way to make you hit hard. Let me know if you'd like to do that.

I'm over the CP cap. While my allocation may not be the mathematically perfect assignment, it's not something stupid.

Yes, I play on the NA server and if you'd like to meet in-game, I always appreciate help anywhere I can find it!

hedna123b14_ESO

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>

I finished nMSA and it was basically everything wrong with the game rolled up into one incredibly poorly designed, badly thought out and painful to play dungeon. So yeah, not doing that on Vet mode.

I've looked at the numbers and the Maelstrom staff really isn't that much better than a weapon-damage enchant "normal" staff. It gives a little weapon damage and damage to elemental blockade. Look at the numbers yourself and you'll see it's not all that great. It's not massively OP like the bow. And it certainly will >not< give 8K DPS all by itself, which is what I would need to get to a consistent 25K+ single-target.

I think most of us don't really like VMA or even the normal mode for it... The only reason we do it several times is to get the weapon we need, afterall, what is the point of solo raid content? I am sorry, at least for me the fun of raiding is in doing it with a bunch of friends talking in voice and all that...

I haven't really talked to anyone who thinks MSA is actually fun. You're right, the only reason people play it is for the weapons and the scores (leaderboard and weekly).

The fun in raiding is doing it with your friends and guildies, for sure.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.

Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.

Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.

I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.

I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.

I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.

You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.

Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.

Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.

Actually the spell damage portion of the enchant I consider the bonus. The best part of it is the bonus damage to your staff weaves. It can easily add 3-4K dps just with having Blockade down and weaving your attacks. At least that has been the experience with me. I prefer to medium weave and with Blockade down and buffs my med weaves easily hit for 16K+ on hard crits.

In fact, I'll drive this a bit further. If you take a look at the parses in the original post... you'll see that my weaves account for a HUGE chunk of my DPS. Sorc was 15%, NB's was 18%, and my templars was 12%... all done with a VMA Destro staff. That's extremely high boost to dps.

I'm still not convinced that it is a huge improvement over a normal staff with a damage enchant, as that damage enchant is increasing all other damage - not just staff damage.

Assume that a Maelstrom staff does 20% more damage than a normal staff. That's a totally unrealistic assumption, but let's pretend. Ok, for your sorc, staff damage was 15% of your overall damage. A 20% boost to 15% of your damage would take a 15K DPS sorc to 15.45K DPS. Such a small increase as to be completely irrelevant. Now consider that a Maelstrom staff probably does 3-5% more damage that a weapon damage-enchanted staff, when you consider the boost to all other damage, and you can see my point.

Ok dude...it's really simply...you don't have that staff, we do....we are telling you that it's a 3k dPS difference, why argue with that?

hedna123b14_ESO

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.

Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.

The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.

I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.

It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.

LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".

And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.

At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.

Do you have low CP? That may be the issue. I really think that by practicing a rotation you can break that 20k. I know that every sorc I have ever come across who has practiced their rotation can pull 25k+ on bloodspawn. If you are on NA server I wouldn't mind getting together to see what you're doing and figure out a way to make you hit hard. Let me know if you'd like to do that.

I'm over the CP cap. While my allocation may not be the mathematically perfect assignment, it's not something stupid.

Yes, I play on the NA server and if you'd like to meet in-game, I always appreciate help anywhere I can find it!

Send me an in game mail @Nosferratuzod