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Magicka Sorc DPS still viable!
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.
Yes, in certain set ups the lightning staff is good, but it still gets stuck in heavy attack mode just like Overload. I tried your build, but every time the staff stopped working I wanted to strangle @Wrobel. >.>Edited by Grao on June 30, 2016 4:12PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.
Yes, in certain set ups the lightning staff is good, but it still gets stuck in heavy attack mode just like Overload. I tried your build, but every time the staff stopped working I wanted to strangle @Wrobel. >.>
But in my build you want to heavy attack0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.
Yes, in certain set ups the lightning staff is good, but it still gets stuck in heavy attack mode just like Overload. I tried your build, but every time the staff stopped working I wanted to strangle @Wrobel. >.>
But in my build you want to heavy attack
Still frustrating the weapon doesn't work properly! I am sorry, bugs bother me >.<
I don't know, I just look at the class and I see unrealized potential... And @Wrobel 's responses in that Q&A plus how the guys in ESO Live laughed when they were answering questions about sorcerers... It is all just balled up together stuck on my throat.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.
Yes, in certain set ups the lightning staff is good, but it still gets stuck in heavy attack mode just like Overload. I tried your build, but every time the staff stopped working I wanted to strangle @Wrobel. >.>
But in my build you want to heavy attack
Still frustrating the weapon doesn't work properly! I am sorry, bugs bother me >.<
I don't know, I just look at the class and I see unrealized potential... And @Wrobel 's responses in that Q&A plus how the guys in ESO Live laughed when they were answering questions about sorcerers... It is all just balled up together stuck on my throat.
Id have to agree that some people in charge seem clueless...giving khajit (already the highest DPS potential race) another buff on the pts? That is akin to giving the altmer more magicka...they rolled that back a week after it came out, I would be shocked if they didnt do the same thing here.0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you get infallible Aether and pair it with the elegant set you can overload for well over 40k constantly. It's better than Kena procs and you use less ultimate doing so. Keep LL on your overload bar along with daedric tomb (the instant spam one and work it right and you'll kill bloodspawn with 1k ultimate very quickly. Sorcs have the best dps still but it's very situational. It's easy to smash these silly tests.
PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I mention the lack of a spammable because it is a basic skill every class has that can be used to promote build diversity. We have a lot of skills in the sorcerer kit right now that are completely pointless and that could be made into a useful spammable that could for instance, promote the idea of a melee magika DPS sorcerer. I am not saying it will necessarily the best option, I am saying that not giving as any option on weapons is not cool. Other classes have a choice, we should have as well.
Ill agree as far as promoting build diversity, sure, but I think spammable is not an issue. No spammbale means we have to use Force Pulse, but to compensate we have to receive a lot of other buffs. That aspect is definitely lacking. Force Pulse is an amazing skill though. It synergizes well with on hit gear, which makes theorycrafting interesting.
Ok, I don't disagree, I do think Force Pulse is an interesting ability, but I find it frustrating that no matter what, if I want to play a magika sorcerer, I don't have any choice for weapon. It infuriates me that even though Zenimax made sorcerers the only class that has no other choice but to use a staff, they made our best choice of staff (lightning) buggy and by far less powerful than a fire staff.
It is the same thing as Bound Aegis. The skill is good, but every time I see it on all three of my bar I want to punch a hole through my computer screen. Every time I look at it in the back of my mind I am thinking ;I have to slot this damn thing three times for a bonus nightblades have as passive'. It is frustrating.
There are so many things on the sorcerer kit that just make me cringe like that, I find painful to play my main character. It is aggravating. Another example... Why are pets not affected by some of our passives and our champion points? Seriously, what other class has one of their ultimates not benefit properly from the current leveling system? Or even normal abilities? Why? I can't understand it... Zenimax says they made this decision because the pets are not an extension of their summoners so they shouldn't be affected by bonuses that affect us, but we know they are full of crap on that because some of the pet's actives do get affected by CPs... So why can't their attacks be affected by our CPs and our passives? Only @Wrobel knows and he is not talking...
There are so many great things that could be done with some of the sorcerer skills to make the class different, to give it a better identity... But they don't do it and that wasted potential, it is such a shame. A few examples?
Swap the Health bonus in Expert Summoner with the Magika Bonus in Bound Aegis, it would make a lot more sense afterall pets scale only from the size of your magika pool and Aegis should be a tanking skill, afterall, aegis is a shield.
Give Bound Aegis a HoT active. The active for Bound Armaments would be even more interesting, empowering your weapon to cause either magic or physical damage with light and heavy attacks depending on your greater resource pool.
Turn Dark Exchange into a spammable that converts part of the damage done into resources. Having our spammable in the Dark magic tree would greatly help with sustain thanks to blood magic and this new skill would still retain some of the spirit of the original skill.
Make pets good... Please, make pets good. Let them be affected by CPs and passives and give them a decent health pool. 7-8 k is just ridiculous.
Definitely disagree with the lightning staff comment. In a properly configured build it is best in slot. Toggles do suck. Pets are lackluster.
Yes, in certain set ups the lightning staff is good, but it still gets stuck in heavy attack mode just like Overload. I tried your build, but every time the staff stopped working I wanted to strangle @Wrobel. >.>
But in my build you want to heavy attack
Still frustrating the weapon doesn't work properly! I am sorry, bugs bother me >.<
I don't know, I just look at the class and I see unrealized potential... And @Wrobel 's responses in that Q&A plus how the guys in ESO Live laughed when they were answering questions about sorcerers... It is all just balled up together stuck on my throat.
Id have to agree that some people in charge seem clueless...giving khajit (already the highest DPS potential race) another buff on the pts? That is akin to giving the altmer more magicka...they rolled that back a week after it came out, I would be shocked if they didnt do the same thing here.
Yeah, I have to say the changes to Khajits is a little puzzling. And then they gave fall damage reduction to Bosmers. >.>
But hey, Bound Armor has new effects... Again... Even though it still doesn't have an active component...0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »If you get infallible Aether and pair it with the elegant set you can overload for well over 40k constantly. It's better than Kena procs and you use less ultimate doing so. Keep LL on your overload bar along with daedric tomb (the instant spam one and work it right and you'll kill bloodspawn with 1k ultimate very quickly. Sorcs have the best dps still but it's very situational. It's easy to smash these silly tests.
Bloodspawn is a really short fight, it is not a great DPS meter... In long run fights Overload spamming is a loss of DPS when compared to Meteor. The only reason to ever use Overload in long fights is at the very start and only if you have excess ultimate. You use it until you have just enough to drop a meteor, then you turn it off and don't use it again, always giving preference to use meteor.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As I see it, some theoretical dps in a perfect scenario is not the problem. When healer and tank to their jobs, it doesn't decide the battle if dps is doing 30, 35, 40 or more k dps. Makes the fight longer or shortens it, that is all.
What I do dread though is what happens when my sorc is with a random group or you're having a slightly less experienced player with you in smaller dungeons. When stuff happens, I can feel my ward expiring after 6 seconds while I'm resurrecting a mate. I can feel my frag not proccing when I'm being charged because the tank is absent. I can feel my Healing Ward flying into the distance to my team mate, to get ME killed. When everything hits the fan, sorcs become increasingly weaker than other classes. And this does happen more often than not in vet dungeons.
And all of this is not even adressing PvP, which is what people are griefing about.1 -
iam117✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »If you get infallible Aether and pair it with the elegant set you can overload for well over 40k constantly. It's better than Kena procs and you use less ultimate doing so. Keep LL on your overload bar along with daedric tomb (the instant spam one and work it right and you'll kill bloodspawn with 1k ultimate very quickly. Sorcs have the best dps still but it's very situational. It's easy to smash these silly tests.
Bloodspawn is a really short fight, it is not a great DPS meter... In long run fights Overload spamming is a loss of DPS when compared to Meteor. The only reason to ever use Overload in long fights is at the very start and only if you have excess ultimate. You use it until you have just enough to drop a meteor, then you turn it off and don't use it again, always giving preference to use meteor.
@Grao is completely correct, another good option (better in my OP) for it would be to start with a meteor, do your normal rotation as needed using meteor as it comes up, then use overload around 25% hp on boss (around nb execute) and when it runs out go to mages wrath this allows you to start a "high damage" execute at the same time as a nb and seamlessly go into the sorc execute after (this shite needs addressed and bumped up) but as stated, overload is not a good test of what kind of dps you can do anywhere but in dailies (especially now that all trials are getting SO treatment), infact in our guild when we do our unbuffed bloodspawn dps tests for eligibility to raid we ask a meteor is used (no OL) at the start of the fight.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think anyone said sorc isn't viable for PVE. Just boring and unforgiving of mistakes (accidentally hard cast frags, miss an easy animation cancel, etc)
Same build, same skills. Overload, elemental blockade, liquid lightning, frags, pulse, etc.. Same gear. Destro staff, etc.
You are reading too much into this. I never stated sorc was not viable for PvE, I said that many of the complaints about the class are about how they are far behind the curve compared to the other magicka classes. I disagree with your assessment, as any class can suffer mistakes that are equally detrimental to the parse (animation canceling isn't as prevalent with the way they changed combat).
Also not sure you read what I wrote...this was done W/O Overload. I'm not going to touch the rest of your statement... too over generalized and missing the point.
I still play my sorc, and won't switch to another class for any reason. I just dislike the PVE aspect of it.
To really get up there in DPS, you need max Magicka. For that you need to slot a couple of toggles. It means far fewer buttons to press, like two on each bar if you use a pet. It means dropping two AOE dots and timing them just right. It means some of your best DPS is left clicking overload (or in your case dropping a meteor).
Deltia posted up a DB PVE sorc build that does great PVE DPS.
https://youtu.be/mFUxhzHAT8o
That's extremely viable for end game content. I just don't care for the playstyle, maybe it's the toggles, AOE dots, and standing around. To each their own. I still adore the PVP playstyle. High mobility. Mines. CC. Defensive rune. Shields. The whole 'run and gun' playstyle is amazing fun.
I don't have anything against Deltia or his guides as many other players do, but I personally like to test and come up with my own rotations/builds if I do anything. I also tend to theorycraft with @hedna123b14_ESO a lot.
Though no one is disagreeing about being bound to so many toggles. I honestly believe toggles should not even exist in game.
Our class should get a toggle slot, I'd give up the whole overload bar for one.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.
there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.
So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.
Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.
I notice you constantly mentioning a destro staff as a weakness. I'm not following the logic, especially in PvP a destro staff would serve you better than a spammable on a dual wield bar, because you can front load a fully charged heavy with a staff and it will hit like a truck. In PvE there are no good players using dual wield on their main bar, with the exception of templars, and there are also plenty of templars still going destro on theIraq front bar. Furthermore as we gain CP destro mainbar will only gain power, so I am confused as to why you would want to lose your destro staff if you had the option to. I assure you going dual wield main bar on a nightblade would lose you dps in PvP and PvE alike.
I usually weave in light staff attacks to proc the weapon/spell damage enchant. You're not wrong though, nothing beats the lightning or resto staff heavy on someone running shuffle or dodge rolling constantly.
I'm fine with a destro staff, but I wish I could drop the resto for a shield (blocking). That would require an instant class heal though...0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »If you get infallible Aether and pair it with the elegant set you can overload for well over 40k constantly. It's better than Kena procs and you use less ultimate doing so. Keep LL on your overload bar along with daedric tomb (the instant spam one and work it right and you'll kill bloodspawn with 1k ultimate very quickly. Sorcs have the best dps still but it's very situational. It's easy to smash these silly tests.
Sure, but that's not a real comparison. OL is such a cheap gimmick in sorc ultimates. The point of a rotation is to test the viability for sustained maximum damage for a DPS. You can't achieve this with OL. Maybe in PvP where it is as wasted and can 2 shots enemies.
I personally hate the use of Kena, specially with light weaving. Me personally? I suck at light weaving, but excel at medium weaving. So the set for me is a dps loss, while it might be a boost to others.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
jknight201✭✭✭As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.0 -
jknight201✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.0 -
jknight201✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.0 -
iam117✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
I'm not really sure where your going wrong with it, you bassically are using my exact setup, 5xJuli/2xkena/3xWillpower/2xtorug swords/1xlightning staff and I posted a 36k dps parse on the first boss in Vmol tonight. That was over 5 min. And I use a mixed variation of nos's build and cookie cutter rotation thst works well for me. Shorter overload fights I can pretty easily stay above 40k. We have atleast 5 people in our guild that have all posted over 25k on SOLO bloodspawn unbuffed tests on magicka sorcs, and we are by no means the main population of people playing them on NA, infact only 2 of us main magicka sorcs currently (and @rokrdt05 (op) isn't even one of them lol). The issue is not the difficulty in using the skills, it's the fact that if you miss something your dps drops drastically, the rotation is unforgiving yes, but not super difficult. And to be fair, nos's build requires very specific gear to get good numbers on, did you use it with the recommended gear? Are you on NA Pc?<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
jknight201✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>0 -
jknight201✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>
I finished nMSA and it was basically everything wrong with the game rolled up into one incredibly poorly designed, badly thought out and painful to play dungeon. So yeah, not doing that on Vet mode.
I've looked at the numbers and the Maelstrom staff really isn't that much better than a weapon-damage enchant "normal" staff. It gives a little weapon damage and damage to elemental blockade. Look at the numbers yourself and you'll see it's not all that great. It's not massively OP like the bow. And it certainly will >not< give 8K DPS all by itself, which is what I would need to get to a consistent 25K+ single-target.Edited by jknight201 on July 1, 2016 9:47AM0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
You'd be surprised how much difference that staff makes. It gives extra damage to every light and heavy attack, which is actually quite powerful. Alas, I understand the dislike for having to farm VMA, after getting the staff I needed I promised my self I would not be running that content again. >.>
I finished nMSA and it was basically everything wrong with the game rolled up into one incredibly poorly designed, badly thought out and painful to play dungeon. So yeah, not doing that on Vet mode.
I've looked at the numbers and the Maelstrom staff really isn't that much better than a weapon-damage enchant "normal" staff. It gives a little weapon damage and damage to elemental blockade. Look at the numbers yourself and you'll see it's not all that great. It's not massively OP like the bow. And it certainly will >not< give 8K DPS all by itself, which is what I would need to get to a consistent 25K+ single-target.
I think most of us don't really like VMA or even the normal mode for it... The only reason we do it several times is to get the weapon we need, afterall, what is the point of solo raid content? I am sorry, at least for me the fun of raiding is in doing it with a bunch of friends talking in voice and all that...0 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭@TE
Nice, that you demonstrate it again. I can spot experienced Sorc-players very fast, just if they use Liquid Lightning or not
Imho, Liquid Lightning is the strongest GTAE in the game and, together with the Synergy, it's a must-have. No other GTAE (like Blazing Spear, bow, etc.) can reach the damage of Liquid Lightning. Even in PvP it burns souls and it excels vs. tanky builds, especially when other allies use the synergy.
I love to play with my pets, though, I am not a min/max'er. Pet-Sorc is a multi-talent spec, which can heal as good as a templar..! I often play in random groups with a pure-fun spec. In "very unfortunate" groups, you can even finish bosses alone, simply by spamming hardened ward + crystal frag. The pet-heal works unbelieveably well! Even with a regen-build with just some 2.3k spell damage (unbuffed) I get easily over 10k DPS. I admit, that's not too much but for a pet-build with regen-gear and only 2,3k spell damage, with a fun-monster set and still 15-20 k DPS
(that convinced me)
I already opened the eyes to soo many "random players", who thought sorcerers are subpar...
The number of complaints about the sorc after the last patch was so entertaining. Let'em play Magicka Templar in PvP, if they really think it is stronger than sorc..!! I love it to interrupt their casted/channeled skills
0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
Actually the spell damage portion of the enchant I consider the bonus. The best part of it is the bonus damage to your staff weaves. It can easily add 3-4K dps just with having Blockade down and weaving your attacks. At least that has been the experience with me. I prefer to medium weave and with Blockade down and buffs my med weaves easily hit for 16K+ on hard crits.
In fact, I'll drive this a bit further. If you take a look at the parses in the original post... you'll see that my weaves account for a HUGE chunk of my DPS. Sorc was 15%, NB's was 18%, and my templars was 12%... all done with a VMA Destro staff. That's extremely high boost to dps.Edited by rokrdt05 on July 1, 2016 1:58PMServer: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0
