Low levels should not be allowed to partcipate in random dungeons.

Lucious90 · June 2016

This is why I dont run LFG any longer when I run Dungeons..... They need to base thr group off level since they dont have level gated dungeons

quadraxis666 · June 2016

109 cp makes you a low level yourself.

CombatPrayer · June 2016

If their scaling system wasn't utter crap it would not be a big problem. As a healer, I can tell very fast who the low levels are because their health drops wildly fast and I have to run about healing, healing, healing which should not be the case if scaling wasn't total crap.

The only thing holding them back is that don't have skills to really get the most out of abilities, but they should be scaled so their health is on par with the highest level in the group or with the foes they face. What I have seen is that I am healing those low levels and reviving them far more than the higher ones which means scaling is half baked.

They should be scaled properly. Nothing scales well in this game so I can hardly wait to see what happens when we get that new open world where you are not zone locked.

Sharee · June 2016

The newbies have to learn somewhere.

And the low levels get a very significant boost in dungeons. I tanked a successful run of imperial city prison(pre-nerf) where our healer was only level 11.

Acharnor · June 2016

I dont know some of the more fun I have had recently was dungeons with low levels who dont know it and are not OP. Be the leader, show em the way!

razzle1184kicks · June 2016

That's why you have the option to create your own group.

To be fair I've ran into high CP and they have been really bad, I've ran into low CP and they have been really good.

GreenhaloX · June 2016

Schemering wrote: »

I dont see why one could not do a normal dung on a vet char with some level 20s; They can be done alone ofc but its a nice way of meeting other people and potential new friends. I did normal prison yesterday with a level 21 nb dd that tanked the whole dung and a healer that was added by tool (the tool-added official tank left the party when we told him that if he wanted to tank the first boss he would need to put a taunt on his bar)

I already knew the nb but now the healer is also in our guild; it was a challenge to do the split phase of lord warden dusk fight with the 3 of us but it was so much fun. If the tank would have been vet and geared and have all skills available it would have been too easy

What does that mean.. when someone tanks, as in "to tank the first boss"? Also, I did a random dungeon que and landed in with a group in the Imperial City Prison for the first time. We all got stuck with the last Lord Warden Dusk fight. Essentially, we all kept on dying and did not finish it. Everyone left one by one and I was automatically kicked out cause I was the loner left in. I guess I'm a damage dealer. I'm not sure what a tank is.. and not sure if we had one in that group. Would this tank thing would've made a difference?

razzle1184kicks · June 2016

You are aware that your on normal mode not vet, that is why your matched with them.

jrgray93 · June 2016

I'm a healer with 501+ CP. I do randoms and I've often found myself with similar groups.

They were nice people and cleaned the dungeon right up once I gave them a few pointers on the boss mechanics.

You should feel bad.

deadlock007 · June 2016

I am well over CP cap and was leveling a new character over the weekend with 2 friends who are also over cap. We cued for many randoms and finished every one of them with no problems whatsoever. If we had been in your group the first words out of my mouth when I saw your CP would have been "look at this little guy, he must be pretty new to the game". But I would have played with you anyway.

Zoner · June 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Schemering wrote: »

I dont see why one could not do a normal dung on a vet char with some level 20s; They can be done alone ofc but its a nice way of meeting other people and potential new friends. I did normal prison yesterday with a level 21 nb dd that tanked the whole dung and a healer that was added by tool (the tool-added official tank left the party when we told him that if he wanted to tank the first boss he would need to put a taunt on his bar)

I already knew the nb but now the healer is also in our guild; it was a challenge to do the split phase of lord warden dusk fight with the 3 of us but it was so much fun. If the tank would have been vet and geared and have all skills available it would have been too easy

What does that mean.. when someone tanks, as in "to tank the first boss"? Also, I did a random dungeon que and landed in with a group in the Imperial City Prison for the first time. We all got stuck with the last Lord Warden Dusk fight. Essentially, we all kept on dying and did not finish it. Everyone left one by one and I was automatically kicked out cause I was the loner left in. I guess I'm a damage dealer. I'm not sure what a tank is.. and not sure if we had one in that group. Would this tank thing would've made a difference?

Tank's job is to keep the enemy focused on themselves so it doesn't kill the healer and damage dealers (dps). They use a taunt skill to do it, which needs to be refreshed every few seconds, and use gear meant to enable them to take a lot of damage. That's just the basics.

Chi110ut · June 2016

Not sure why people are calling the Scaling System crap. It works both ways, you either become completely OP or you are dont get scaled correctly.
For example I have recently leveled a DK tank through dungeon finder and Rkindalol (Orsinum). I started dungeon finding from level 10, I was scaled with 42k HP 30k Stam and around 15k Magica. I was wearing blue crafted from my main and was close to resistant caps in both physical and spell. I didnt even need healing most dungeon runs it was unbelievable.

I have also just started a magica NB that I decided to start healing in dungeons, I've been soley doing Dungeon Finder again and scaled have around 36k magica, 1.8k regen, 2000 spell damage and 52% spell crit at level 18. I never run out of mana, I can spam heal, funnel health hits for 10K+.

Garldeen · June 2016

I prefer grouping with low-level people, people below my L30. They don't shout at me when they die as I'm trying to learn how to do the healer role. I have one bar for DPS and one for healer so I've no problem if the healer is low level, either. Even when I queue as damage role, if needs be I'll swap to back and forth between the healer and damage bars and weapons (bow and restro staff) and help with the healing if we are taking a bit of a beating before returning to damage.

The worst experiences I've had in groups is when we have three low-level people and a L50 person with tons of CP who comes along and basically solos the group with us trying to keep up. On the other hand, I have grouped with L50 people who know they are over levelled so have basically babysat us through the dungeon. Stayed out of the way unless we are about to die.

CombatPrayer · June 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you know how up-scaling works? Unless youre rocking BiS gear including vMA weapons, the stats on tlose lev 10-13s are higher than yours while in the dungeon. Its the lev50 characters with low CP who most often drag groups down as they havent the gear, the CPs or the benefit of scaling to be effective.

I don't think that is quite the way it is working. I have noticed as a healer that the low levels lose health very fast and I run around healing them like crazy. Not always. Tanks seems to scale well or better but DPS and Sorc not so much. I wonder if their scaling assumes min/max. I am not quite sure. I just find that when I am running, as a healer I watch health all the time and by the end I will see the levels and know after we are done who was what without looking. I can also tell those who min/max very fast.

Tanks or people who have a decent amount of points in their health (probably close to or over 20) don't generally take huge drops in health quite so often. Or perhaps they have the skills that can minimize this. But others, they drop fast. Very fast. And sometimes they die before I can throw out a heal to keep them up. I end up doing nothing but healing healing healing to keep them up. Yes,, that is my job but when you have to heal over and over the same person, you drain magicka faster than it can regen.

So people die because I am drained of magicka nad have to use restoration staff to get more back and cannot keep healing those who are dropping very fast all the time. In dungeons, it seems like people don't even want to use potions if they have a healer but a healer cannot keep a group alive when they keep living on the brink of death since they all lose health at diff times. The magicka it takes to sustain that kind of team is sometimes more than you can get back from potions and res staff and for them, the ones who drop fast, I have to use the big heals because their health drops often.

Point is that I just don't think they scale well. Min maxing maybe? Or something like that. Unless it's some skill use. I do my best to keep everyone alive but there have been times I have determined that spending my time healing that one person who keeps dying is no longer worth it because while they were dead the team did better, not just from my healing perspective but also because I am a templar who does a nice amount of damage and when that weak link isn't dying I can switch off healing to dps and do damage too. Something is off with the scaling or maybe these people just suck. I'm not sure. I think it's the system because it happened to my level 10 too.

Schemering · June 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Schemering wrote: »

I dont see why one could not do a normal dung on a vet char with some level 20s; They can be done alone ofc but its a nice way of meeting other people and potential new friends. I did normal prison yesterday with a level 21 nb dd that tanked the whole dung and a healer that was added by tool (the tool-added official tank left the party when we told him that if he wanted to tank the first boss he would need to put a taunt on his bar)

I already knew the nb but now the healer is also in our guild; it was a challenge to do the split phase of lord warden dusk fight with the 3 of us but it was so much fun. If the tank would have been vet and geared and have all skills available it would have been too easy

What does that mean.. when someone tanks, as in "to tank the first boss"? Also, I did a random dungeon que and landed in with a group in the Imperial City Prison for the first time. We all got stuck with the last Lord Warden Dusk fight. Essentially, we all kept on dying and did not finish it. Everyone left one by one and I was automatically kicked out cause I was the loner left in. I guess I'm a damage dealer. I'm not sure what a tank is.. and not sure if we had one in that group. Would this tank thing would've made a difference?

well our original tool-assigned tank had no taunt available so the boss was wandering around killing people that were doing dps. We asked the tank to taunt the boss but he wasnt able to bcs no taunt skill available and left the party for unknown reasons (we didnt ask him to leave) The level 21 nb dd had been using sword+board in zones so was able to put up a taunt and we did the boss and rest of dung with the 3 of us. i had a redguard luckily with light armor on so for last boss i put up healing springs to heal when healer couldnt and we moved as a group in split phase going from ad to ad. That made it possible to survive the shadows assaults from 4 sides

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2016

autumnsongbird wrote: »

If their scaling system wasn't utter crap it would not be a big problem. As a healer, I can tell very fast who the low levels are because their health drops wildly fast and I have to run about healing, healing, healing which should not be the case if scaling wasn't total crap.

The only thing holding them back is that don't have skills to really get the most out of abilities, but they should be scaled so their health is on par with the highest level in the group or with the foes they face. What I have seen is that I am healing those low levels and reviving them far more than the higher ones which means scaling is half baked.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268764/scaling-gone-crazy/p1

Make a new char, level him to 10 spending your skill points wisely. Put a white set of lev10 gear on him... make it Julianos or Hundings, whatever's right for your build, put white enchants on it. Go into a dungeon. Look at the stats.

Vercingetorix · June 2016

Hate to break to you, but for a lot of people, your level (rank) is rather low, too. Being sub 160 is the equivalent of being under level 50 for a lot of folks. Being scaled to 150 isn't as good as 160 stats. Seeing a player at your cp rank in a group of 501's would yield the same response. Just thought I'd put that into perspective for you.

Zoner · June 2016

I like playing with new people sometimes, it's nice to make new friends and to get in a bit of practice if you need it - I taught myself how to do a fair bit of tanking by pugging vet banished cells and seeing how many daedroths I could hold on the final boss, as it was usually an infinite stream of them due to low dps. It often tests your healing too.

I wonder why you aren't queueing for vet dungeons though, OP, if you don't like running with lowbies...

Don't wanna be the lowbie or the underperformer in the big kid's pool maybe?

GreenhaloX · June 2016

Zoner wrote: »

Tank's job is to keep the enemy focused on themselves so it doesn't kill the healer and damage dealers (dps). They use a taunt skill to do it, which needs to be refreshed every few seconds, and use gear meant to enable them to take a lot of damage. That's just the basics.

Ahh.. got it. Thanks.

Schemering wrote: »

well our original tool-assigned tank had no taunt available so the boss was wandering around killing people that were doing dps. We asked the tank to taunt the boss but he wasnt able to bcs no taunt skill available and left the party for unknown reasons (we didnt ask him to leave) The level 21 nb dd had been using sword+board in zones so was able to put up a taunt and we did the boss and rest of dung with the 3 of us. i had a redguard luckily with light armor on so for last boss i put up healing springs to heal when healer couldnt and we moved as a group in split phase going from ad to ad. That made it possible to survive the shadows assaults from 4 sides

Oh, I see. Yes, someone who can tank right does make a difference, but with the last Lord Warden fight, I think it's better if you have higher damage absorbing traits.

I think it would also be ok if a healer was a lower level player. He or she could be constantly healing the rest while they deal out the damages.

Eyecon74 · June 2016

I don't mind which levels I run with, on my healer I can adapt to many situations, I can quickly see who's not been in a dungeon and cover them a bit more than I normally would..
If a low level NB is an alt for a more experienced character then they'll know where to be to avoid most damage and output maximum damage.
Communication is key, if people struggle, give some pointers and explain the mechanics, we've all had to learn..
Also remember that we used to run these pledges before CP even existed and we were able to complete them, yes, CP has an impact but by no means substitutes experience.

Schemering · June 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Tank's job is to keep the enemy focused on themselves so it doesn't kill the healer and damage dealers (dps). They use a taunt skill to do it, which needs to be refreshed every few seconds, and use gear meant to enable them to take a lot of damage. That's just the basics.

Ahh.. got it. Thanks.

Schemering wrote: »

well our original tool-assigned tank had no taunt available so the boss was wandering around killing people that were doing dps. We asked the tank to taunt the boss but he wasnt able to bcs no taunt skill available and left the party for unknown reasons (we didnt ask him to leave) The level 21 nb dd had been using sword+board in zones so was able to put up a taunt and we did the boss and rest of dung with the 3 of us. i had a redguard luckily with light armor on so for last boss i put up healing springs to heal when healer couldnt and we moved as a group in split phase going from ad to ad. That made it possible to survive the shadows assaults from 4 sides

Oh, I see. Yes, someone who can tank right does make a difference, but with the last Lord Warden fight, I think it's better if you have higher damage absorbing traits.

I think it would also be ok if a healer was a lower level player. He or she could be constantly healing the rest while they deal out the damages.

Youre absolutely right its also no prob if healer is low level and same goes for dd: if skilled a level 10 char can do fine healing and fine damage with the limited skills available, its just not as flexible bcs of skills yet to be unlocked. (do keep in mind a level 15 can have 501 cp and outdamage or outheal a level 35 and even someone with 109 cp)

Also being able to work together with rest of grp instead of just doing your standard rotation ignoring specific circumstances is an asset that imo outweighs being veteran or having many cp

Lightninvash · June 2016

Some low levels like that in the case know how scaling works and could have better stats and cp than you and could provide a formidable ally. Just because you see a low level doesn't mean anything now a days. So sure they may not have all the skill points as higher lvl chars(unless they skyshard hunt) but they could still be good. I find generally the people I get grouped with are either relative skill or stats in random dungeons. just some food for thought. They could all be 501 cp players making a new alt since they introduced the new slots.

Zoner · June 2016

Lightninvash wrote: »

Some low levels like that in the case know how scaling works and could have better stats and cp than you and could provide a formidable ally. Just because you see a low level doesn't mean anything now a days. So sure they may not have all the skill points as higher lvl chars(unless they skyshard hunt) but they could still be good. I find generally the people I get grouped with are either relative skill or stats in random dungeons. just some food for thought. They could all be 501 cp players making a new alt since they introduced the new slots.

Happened to me the other day actually - the little level 16 khajiit noob in my group was wearing the dro mathra skin from completing vMoL.

failkiwib16_ESO · June 2016

Schemering wrote: »

well our original tool-assigned tank had no taunt available so the boss was wandering around killing people that were doing dps. We asked the tank to taunt the boss but he wasnt able to bcs no taunt skill available and left the party for unknown reasons (we didnt ask him to leave) The level 21 nb dd had been using sword+board in zones so was able to put up a taunt and we did the boss and rest of dung with the 3 of us. i had a redguard luckily with light armor on so for last boss i put up healing springs to heal when healer couldnt and we moved as a group in split phase going from ad to ad. That made it possible to survive the shadows assaults from 4 sides

@Schemering I run a small guild and usually when i play with obvious inexperienced guildies, I do tell them to slot taunts and where to stand etc. However, I sometimes get invited to join my friend's groups, to train or do an achievement with one of their lowbies - and there I see it as my friend's responsibility to teach the lowbie and not mine, so I hold back with information.

This is my experience with that:

They don't tell the inexperienced tank to taunt, and where to find the skill for it.
When the inexperienced tank asks about his performance, they even tell him that he performed good at the role and is an awesome player.
They tell me a cp600+ heal/dd to slot immovable, so I die less when I get aggro from the boss.

The bad players get told that they are good by experienced players - so they believe those words run around and think they are awesome.
Perhaps this deception and these lies explain part of the bad grouping experience that people have, and why some players have high confidence and low skills. When these players join pugs or use grouping tool, and meet players who tell them the opposite of what they think they should be doing, they get angry because it contradicts what they have previously been told.

altemriel · June 2016

if you don`t like the LFG tool, use zone chat for finding your group.

I do it always and I usually find a good group within 15 minutes max.

there I usually specify LFM.... min CP.....and it works fine

Zerok · June 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

A better system would be to pair higher levels with people around the same stage. But that won't happen. Take this as a chance to teach them how to do the dungeon instead of complaining they could be newbies.

Don't make any assumption.

A lot of low level players are actually veteran players with max CPs. In fact, it's possible that one or two of these players are actually better geared and have more CPs than you do.

If you know how battle leveling works, then you know that a well-geared max CP level 10 is going to be overpowered as hell.

TheUrbanWizard · June 2016

@raidentenshu_ESO just remember low-levels bought the game, its contents and tools just like you!

You were "low-level" once ya know, jeez!

Bromburak · June 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Low levels should not be allowed to partcipate in random dungeon

Hilarious.

Don't play with randoms, very simple.

Aisle9 · June 2016

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO just remember low-levels bought the game, its contents and tools just like you!

You were "low-level" once ya know, jeez!

He kinda still is xD

Giraffon · June 2016

Toxie50 wrote: »

Actually those lvl 10-13 can in fact have way more CP then you
And if so, way more experienced.. So dont judge lowbies ^^

^This. I carried a group last night with a level 11 stamplar. They were all higher level than me, but clearly less experienced. Your CP doesn't show if you are running a non-vet. I was laugh-crying the whole way through. We got 'er done though.