Scaling gone crazy?

khele23eb17_ESO

So, one of my chars, a stamblade was promoted to max level today due to VR removal. I gave him some CP160 purple crafted gear and went dungeoning. I have done vet and normal dungeons with him before and this time it was as if his effectiveness was cut in half. The damage numbers were so low compared to what I saw before the DLC that I sat there scratching my head for a while. So I decided to do a dungeon on another stamblade... lev 38 this time in crafted lev 28 gear (except for weapons which were green 38s). This time I felt like playing an avatar of the grim reaper - mowing foes down with ease. So I decided to compare the stats between the 2 characters.

Level 38, scaled to CP160: white Hunding and Night Mother sets@lev28, weapons@lev 38, training traits on everything, hp+stam food buff:



Max Level: purple CP160 HR + NM, 1x agi ring + neck, divine on gear + precise on weapons, hp+stam food buff:



Does anyone else think this is a bit crazy? 4k more stamina, 8k more hp, 500 more weapon damage, double the resource regen (even if you take away the redguard passive the difference is huge). The one advantage the 'v16' has is the crit chance but that would change if I put divine/precise traits on the lowbie gear and equipped cammo hunter on my bar. I get it, low levels need a bit of a boost... but how fun is it to hit max level and be reduced from godlike to a PoS and having to work your way up to being a wimp. Or am I missing something?

Epona222

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

khele23eb17_ESO

Epona222 wrote: »

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

Cant check right now (maintenance) but looking at the crit rate - yes.

temjiu

Wow. Here's hoping that this is part of the fix they're implementing as of now. a lvl 28 scaled should not be able to top a maxed toon. And the change to difficulty sounds allot like it's due to the scaling...if they buffed the max tier toon to be equal to the lvl 28 in scaling im sure it would make a difference.

that being said, it's not surprising that on such a huge migration (they effectively converted most of the games stats on gear and other areas) that scaling is a bit off. surprised that this wasn't caught on PTS. Or perhaps it wasn't there...hence the emergency MW. Just brainstorming here.

EDIT: the most recent alert on the main forum page indicates the MW was to fix an equipment related issue...wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that.

imenace

#zoslogic

vyndral13preub18_ESO

It wouldnt surprise me if it was done on purpose. I think we have all seen threads from lowbies about how the scaling isnt fair. So it makes sense to boost the lowbies a little bit since they have fewer passives and skills.

The problem is when people know what they are doing, it blows this system up.

khele23eb17_ESO

temjiu wrote: »

Wow. Here's hoping that this is part of the fix they're implementing as of now. a lvl 28 scaled should not be able to top a maxed toon. And the change to difficulty sounds allot like it's due to the scaling...if they buffed the max tier toon to be equal to the lvl 28 in scaling im sure it would make a difference.

that being said, it's not surprising that on such a huge migration (they effectively converted most of the games stats on gear and other areas) that scaling is a bit off. surprised that this wasn't caught on PTS. Or perhaps it wasn't there...hence the emergency MW. Just brainstorming here.

EDIT: the most recent alert on the main forum page indicates the MW was to fix an equipment related issue...wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that.

Im pretty sure the scaling was like that before the dlc.

Edit: Yep, heres the character's predecessor (remade him due the face paint) @lev 13 in a dungeon before the patch. White HR set only, half the gear not enchanted... dont recall if I had food on or not:

Logicbomb00

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Feed your horse. It's hungry.

khele23eb17_ESO

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Feed your horse. It's hungry.

No. Hes almost there. I almost trained him to live without food!

Gedalya

Wait, what is Drowning Resistance?

khele23eb17_ESO

Gedalya wrote: »

Wait, what is Drowning Resistance?

Dunno... its extra info from an add-on.

Gedalya

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

Wait, what is Drowning Resistance?

Dunno... its extra info from an add-on.

Thanks. It's just so odd to add as you can't drown in this game; and they've downplayed any potential at swimming under the water so not likely you'll ever be able to drown in Tamriel.

khele23eb17_ESO

Gedalya wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

Wait, what is Drowning Resistance?

Dunno... its extra info from an add-on.

Thanks. It's just so odd to add as you can't drown in this game; and they've downplayed any potential at swimming under the water so not likely you'll ever be able to drown in Tamriel.

Probably something in the code that doesnt actually get any use in game. A remnant from an early iteration of the game perhaps.

raasdal

This has been a thing since they changed scaling in TG.

Lots of different factors. But basically they grant extra base stats (Mag,Stam and HP). Thus means that a lvl10 can get numbers a V16 is not able to get even in gold gear and passives etc. Other *** includes giving low level staffs the same power as 2h/dw. The list is long and messed up.

NewBlacksmurf

Well @khele23eb17_ESO
I asked a bunch of time on PTS and another article and many seemed to think I was confused or something.

Thanks for pointing out what I've been asking but what I couldn't show cause all things on live now were not on PTS
@ZOS_GinaBruno and @Wrobel

Prior aks - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3013515/#Comment_3013515

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2964963/#Comment_2964963

Soleya

When my Templar was level 24, her stats when battle leveled were 42k magicka, 2500 regen, and 34k health (with food). Had more health than the tank in the group. I noticed later when I was level 40's, it was 40k magicka, 26k health, at V4 it's 38k magick 19k health when battle leveled.

khele23eb17_ESO

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

When my Templar was level 24, her stats when battle leveled were 42k magicka, 2500 regen, and 34k health (with food). Had more health than the tank in the group. I noticed later when I was level 40's, it was 40k magicka, 26k health, at V4 it's 38k magick 19k health when battle leveled.

And this is how you end up with fresh max levels dying like flies and not producing sufficient dps in vet dungeons.

sirrmattus

GOOD!!

sick of low levels coming to had and doing insane dps and dmg mitigations

khele23eb17_ESO

sirrmattus wrote: »

GOOD!!

sick of low levels coming to had and doing insane dps and dmg mitigations

But they dont learn how to play this way. Then once they hit v16 (now L50) they go 'wtf?! I suck all of a sudden!' And the people who grup with them also go 'wtf?! you suck! /kick /ignore'. And think how demotivating it is to realize that no matter how hard you work, your maxed out character wont be as effective as he was at lev 20.

Troneon

Stop talking sense, you broke the servers....ZOS might implode if you keep it up...

Actually nvm keep talking sense...

Riggsy

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

khele23eb17_ESO

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

Thing is... ZoS isnt giving them anything. Theyre lending them stats for easy content and then taking them away when theyre actually needed for more difficult stuff.

NewBlacksmurf

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, ZOS had huge player separation and didn't understand how to add meaning DLC due to the VR situation and adding CP without removing VR.....and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

khele23eb17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

The issue was already there before VR removal.

RoyJade

IMO, scaling is really good, and was just awesome before the vet removal. I was able to run a char without needing to spend hours bashing mobs, and to play in pvp with every char I want. Now, I still can level my new char in pvp, which is great.
But I must admit that scaling give us some really big numbers now. Probably too much, even if a scaled character don't have every passives and skills.

notimetocare

But compare your max chars passives and skill access. Does the final output result in the same damage?

khele23eb17_ESO

notimetocare wrote: »

But compare your max chars passives and skill access. Does the final output result in the same damage?

At lev 38 it results in doing MUCH more damage (and that was with level 28 gear). I mentioned that in the OP. Higher survivability too.

NewBlacksmurf

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

The issue was already there before VR removal.

@khele23eb17_ESO
Yep thats my point, when VR was increased in closed BETA and when the cap stats was changed it began.

Now with all the above. and that VR was not removed at all, the problem is further enhanced and more apparent.

Step 1
-completely remove VR from the game
Step 2
-let CP be a passive and leave well enough alone
Step 3
-do away with scaling dungeons
Step 4
-then look at how to offer DLC to both new players and higher levels (not all at once tho)

Taleof2Cities

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

Cant check right now (maintenance) but looking at the crit rate - yes.

Well, you should remember whether you reallocated your CP or not since it was reset on all characters. It will make a difference ... especially on new CP160 characters that just got the boost up.

(As one other poster said, can't rule out an issue with taking down the servers ... but ZOS says it's item-related ...)

khele23eb17_ESO

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

Cant check right now (maintenance) but looking at the crit rate - yes.

Well, you should remember whether you reallocated your CP or not since it was reset on all characters. It will make a difference ... especially on new CP160 characters that just got the boost up.

(As one other poster said, can't rule out an issue with taking down the servers ... but ZOS says it's item-related ...)

I should remember if I allocated CPs on all my 8 characters? I compared the screen with the char copy on the PTS and it would seem that I did in fact allocate CPs.

Riggsy

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, ZOS had huge player separation and didn't understand how to add meaning DLC due to the VR situation and adding CP without removing VR.....and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

So it's a typical ZOS "fix" where they put a band-aid on the issue instead of addressing the root cause. Reminds me of their Cyro lag fix where, instead of addressing the server issues, created the VD set and made it easy to get mag. det. hoping that would deter large battles from occurring and thus minimizing lag...