"Why does Cropsford exist in the 2nd Era?" and other bizarre anachronisms

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Lore is one thing that keeps me coming back this series. If the devs can't keep that straight anymore I will quickly lose interest.

Lore is the only thing keeping me interested in ESO. And one of the big things am hoping for in ESO, being a game with a long continuous dev cycle as opposed to one limited game and it's dlc, is that they expand the Lore rather than trying to conform to set standards. Stagnation is boring.

So screwing up timelines is expanding the lore and avoiding stagnation. Gotcha.

Of course! Same reason Firsthold was changed from a glorious city with a massive orrery and relics from altmer astronauts to a grey, washed out Rivendell ripoff!

#MakeSummersetGreatAgain

Dont ya just love the boring khajiit lore that they could have finally showed in its full glory? Its so boring that they cut out 90% of it! YAY!!! who cares about the intricacies of phases of the moon related to birth type! Who cares about Senche-rhat, senche, alfiq, tojay, or the friggin mane (or any of the others)? all that stuff was made up by a high elf high on skooma!

The pain is palpable.

This is what I'm talking about. Whenever something gets a bit complicated or nuanced, ZOS "tones it down" or ignores it in favor or something more mundane and generic. Again, I still don't understand their obsession with the color grey, especially with the ayleid ruins. Why the colorswap?

WhiteCoatSyndrome · June 2016

Bleaker's Way has the same problem IIRC. My theory is that ESO was originally intended to happen AFTER Skyrim and when they adjusted it to the 2nd Era they just never updated Cyrodiil.

But I'll settle for 'the plot of land is called Cropsford, and people just named the town after the land' because that bothers me less than 'plot hole'. And we save some records in Imperial City, maybe it was written down on one of those, so it's plausible.

+1 about making Tamriel too generic; I feel like the only reason we don't get to see Falinesti is because no one could figure out how to work in walking trees. *sigh*

opaj · June 2016

Why does Black-Briar Mead exist?

Why is there a recipe for Raven Rock (founded late 3rd era) Baked Ash Yams (Solstheim did not have a climate to support ash yams until early 4th era)?

Just how old is Ababael Timsar-Dadisun by the time of Morrowind, anyway?

I can headcanon these all away, but I do wish I didn't have to do so quite this often. It's surely possible that Maven's family has a rich history of mead-making and she just decided to start up the old family business after it had fallen on hard times several generations back. Maybe there's a different Raven Rock somewhere in Morrowind from which the Solstheim colony will eventually get its name. Perhaps Ababael used his master mercantile skills to buy some form of immortality. Or he could be a vampire, hence the mask he always wears when you meet him in the third era.

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

opaj wrote: »

Why does Black-Briar Mead exist?

Why is there a recipe for Raven Rock (founded late 3rd era) Baked Ash Yams (Solstheim did not have a climate to support ash yams until early 4th era)?

Just how old is Ababael Timsar-Dadisun by the time of Morrowind, anyway?

I can headcanon these all away, but I do wish I didn't have to do so quite this often. It's surely possible that Maven's family has a rich history of mead-making and she just decided to start up the old family business after it had fallen on hard times several generations back. Maybe there's a different Raven Rock somewhere in Morrowind from which the Solstheim colony will eventually get its name. Perhaps Ababael used his master mercantile skills to buy some form of immortality. Or he could be a vampire, hence the mask he always wears when you meet him in the third era.

Damn. I didn't realize just how many anachronisms there were.

You can definitely explain away some of this stuff, but putting it all together just seems like Zenimax was sloppy and didn't care.

opaj · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Damn. I didn't realize just how many anachronisms there were.

You can definitely explain away some of this stuff, but putting it all together just seems like Zenimax was sloppy and didn't care.

Oh, sure it seems that way, but I can practically guarantee you that it isn't true. When you're dealing with a universe as large as Elder Scrolls, things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. Every TES games have them, and they usually don't have the sheer breadth of lore that ESO has.

I'd say it's our nature as fans to pick up on this stuff as being obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it creating an entire world, things like this are bound to happen. Yes, it irks me, but I would never go so far as to say they don't care after they've given us so many wonderful lore gifts with this game.

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

opaj wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Damn. I didn't realize just how many anachronisms there were.

You can definitely explain away some of this stuff, but putting it all together just seems like Zenimax was sloppy and didn't care.

Oh, sure it seems that way, but I can practically guarantee you that it isn't true. When you're dealing with a universe as large as Elder Scrolls, things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. Every TES games have them, and they usually don't have the sheer breadth of lore that ESO has.

I'd say it's our nature as fans to pick up on this stuff as being obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it creating an entire world, things like this are bound to happen. Yes, it irks me, but I would never go so far as to say they don't care after they've given us so many wonderful lore gifts with this game.

The anachronisms are just one part of a larger problem though. It's also their strange obsession with taking the life and color out of the world. Sure, they let us have some interesting environments and they understand the basic lore buzzwords of kalpas and towers, but more often than not all of the exotic, strange, and unique aspects of The Elder Scrolls universe are reduced to "fanciful exaggerations" and "unreliable narrators". Again, I can't think of any better metaphor for this than how they made all the ayleid ruins grey. No reason, no technology issue. They just want everything to look dark and gritty. It's indicative of their entire vision.

It's been like this since the game was announced, with statements like "You can't build buildings out of poetry" when they were asked why Summerset looks nothing like it was described in lore. It just feels like Zenimax wanted Nirn to fit their generic medieval fantasy box and toned everything down to fit their vision, with little regard for the fine details of the world.

Yes, making a game this big is hard, but having a hard job isn't an excuse for making these sorts of decisions. It's not an excuse for Zenimax, or Bethesda. If you're going to make a game out of a world millions of people care deeply about, go all the way with it or don't do it at all. At the very least they could act like they've played previous games and lay off all these hilarious anachronisms.

JD2013 · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

opaj wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Damn. I didn't realize just how many anachronisms there were.

You can definitely explain away some of this stuff, but putting it all together just seems like Zenimax was sloppy and didn't care.

Oh, sure it seems that way, but I can practically guarantee you that it isn't true. When you're dealing with a universe as large as Elder Scrolls, things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. Every TES games have them, and they usually don't have the sheer breadth of lore that ESO has.

I'd say it's our nature as fans to pick up on this stuff as being obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it creating an entire world, things like this are bound to happen. Yes, it irks me, but I would never go so far as to say they don't care after they've given us so many wonderful lore gifts with this game.

The anachronisms are just one part of a larger problem though. It's also their strange obsession with taking the life and color out of the world. Sure, they let us have some interesting environments and they understand the basic lore buzzwords of kalpas and towers, but more often than not all of the exotic, strange, and unique aspects of The Elder Scrolls universe are reduced to "fanciful exaggerations" and "unreliable narrators". Again, I can't think of any better metaphor for this than how they made all the ayleid ruins grey. No reason, no technology issue. They just want everything to look dark and gritty. It's indicative of their entire vision.

It's been like this since the game was announced, with statements like "You can't build buildings out of poetry" when they were asked why Summerset looks nothing like it was described in lore. It just feels like Zenimax wanted Nirn to fit their generic medieval fantasy box and toned everything down to fit their vision, with little regard for the fine details of the world.

Yes, making a game this big is hard, but having a hard job isn't an excuse for making these sorts of decisions. It's not an excuse for Zenimax, or Bethesda. If you're going to make a game out of a world millions of people care deeply about, go all the way with it or don't do it at all. At the very least they could act like they've played previous games and lay off all these hilarious anachronisms.

You saw Skyrim, right? Not much life and vibrancy there. Lots of snow and brown.

Morrowind? Very very alien and wonderful landscapes. Lots of ash and lava. Not the most vibrant of colour pallets.

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An Ayleid ruin in Oblivion.

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An Ayleid ruin in ESO. Greyer but not massively different.

I think you are blowing things out of all proportion for nothing.

Now, of course, Auridon does not match people's expectations of the Summerset Isles. Of course it didn't because we haven't seen the Summerset Isles. Merely the island outside of the main isles, which I think would be slightly less remarkable. It is a gateway to Tamriel from the Summerset isles, so I feel it would be more Tamriel like.

On the main island, of course, are such things as:

Alinor:

"Alinor has been described by human traders as “made from glass or insect wings.” Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, “a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall.”

Now whereas I hope we do see things like this, I am not sure the game engine would support it without it looking a bit cartoon like. Time shall tell.

We all have very different opinions on how things will look, of course, but with the amount of detail that has gone into this world, I rather think saying the devs haven't played the previous games and toned down Tamriel purposely is a little bit insulting. They are human, and make some mistakes. But with the amount of hours and work gone into this game, these things will occur. Not everything will fit your idea of a world, or indeed mine and everyone else's.

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

opaj wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Damn. I didn't realize just how many anachronisms there were.

You can definitely explain away some of this stuff, but putting it all together just seems like Zenimax was sloppy and didn't care.

Oh, sure it seems that way, but I can practically guarantee you that it isn't true. When you're dealing with a universe as large as Elder Scrolls, things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. Every TES games have them, and they usually don't have the sheer breadth of lore that ESO has.

I'd say it's our nature as fans to pick up on this stuff as being obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it creating an entire world, things like this are bound to happen. Yes, it irks me, but I would never go so far as to say they don't care after they've given us so many wonderful lore gifts with this game.

The anachronisms are just one part of a larger problem though. It's also their strange obsession with taking the life and color out of the world. Sure, they let us have some interesting environments and they understand the basic lore buzzwords of kalpas and towers, but more often than not all of the exotic, strange, and unique aspects of The Elder Scrolls universe are reduced to "fanciful exaggerations" and "unreliable narrators". Again, I can't think of any better metaphor for this than how they made all the ayleid ruins grey. No reason, no technology issue. They just want everything to look dark and gritty. It's indicative of their entire vision.

It's been like this since the game was announced, with statements like "You can't build buildings out of poetry" when they were asked why Summerset looks nothing like it was described in lore. It just feels like Zenimax wanted Nirn to fit their generic medieval fantasy box and toned everything down to fit their vision, with little regard for the fine details of the world.

Yes, making a game this big is hard, but having a hard job isn't an excuse for making these sorts of decisions. It's not an excuse for Zenimax, or Bethesda. If you're going to make a game out of a world millions of people care deeply about, go all the way with it or don't do it at all. At the very least they could act like they've played previous games and lay off all these hilarious anachronisms.

You saw Skyrim, right? Not much life and vibrancy there. Lots of snow and brown.

Morrowind? Very very alien and wonderful landscapes. Lots of ash and lava. Not the most vibrant of colour pallets.

An Ayleid ruin in Oblivion.

An Ayleid ruin in ESO. Greyer but not massively different.

I think you are blowing things out of all proportion for nothing.

Now, of course, Auridon does not match people's expectations of the Summerset Isles. Of course it didn't because we haven't seen the Summerset Isles. Merely the island outside of the main isles, which I think would be slightly less remarkable. It is a gateway to Tamriel from the Summerset isles, so I feel it would be more Tamriel like.

On the main island, of course, are such things as:

Alinor:

"Alinor has been described by human traders as “made from glass or insect wings.” Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, “a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall.”

Now whereas I hope we do see things like this, I am not sure the game engine would support it without it looking a bit cartoon like. Time shall tell.

We all have very different opinions on how things will look, of course, but with the amount of detail that has gone into this world, I rather think saying the devs haven't played the previous games and toned down Tamriel purposely is a little bit insulting. They are human, and make some mistakes. But with the amount of hours and work gone into this game, these things will occur. Not everything will fit your idea of a world, or indeed mine and everyone else's.

Let me be clear: I don't mean "color" literally. At least not entirely. I mean it feels like they've sucked out a lot of the exoticism, weirdness, and fun out of the world. Not all of it, but a lot of it. The ayleid thing is an obvious nitpick and it doesn't bother me that much, but I keep referring to it because it's a perfect example of Zenimax's mindset. There was literally no reason for them to make such a minor change. Absolutely none, but they did it anyway. They made a conscious decision to literally remove the color from something for no reason whatsoever. I feel that's an apt description for a lot of things in this game.

All these anachronisms (and let's be honest, even for a massive game there's A LOT of them) are just another thing that makes me feel like Zenimax is sloppy and doesn't care as much about the world as some of the fans do.

opaj wrote: »

Why does Black-Briar Mead exist?

Why is there a recipe for Raven Rock (founded late 3rd era) Baked Ash Yams (Solstheim did not have a climate to support ash yams until early 4th era)?

Just how old is Ababael Timsar-Dadisun by the time of Morrowind, anyway?

I can headcanon these all away, but I do wish I didn't have to do so quite this often. It's surely possible that Maven's family has a rich history of mead-making and she just decided to start up the old family business after it had fallen on hard times several generations back. Maybe there's a different Raven Rock somewhere in Morrowind from which the Solstheim colony will eventually get its name. Perhaps Ababael used his master mercantile skills to buy some form of immortality. Or he could be a vampire, hence the mask he always wears when you meet him in the third era.

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

You may say it's insulting for me to criticize Zenimax on this, but I feel like they're insulting my intelligence.

Enodoc · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

Did you say before that this was with regards to a recipe? Maybe recipes are subject to the same lexicological temporal displacement (the one caused by Gandranen Ruins) that pulls other books out of time, like Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls (which was also from the Fourth Era).

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

Did you say before that this was with regards to a recipe? Maybe recipes are subject to the same lexicological temporal displacement (the one caused by Gandranen Ruins) that pulls other books out of time, like Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls (which was also from the Fourth Era).

Really dude?

At what point do we just accept that Zenimax put a bunch of stuff in the wrong time period?

The Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls thing was clearly done on purpose. I think there's even a note at the end of the book hinting at this. That's fine.

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations for why a food recipe that shouldn't exist yet is in the game? Is that really what this has come to?

Clearly Zenimax didn't know Raven Rock doesn't exist yet. We can do our best to dragonbreak this in-game, but in terms of the real world that's what happened. Zenimax made a glaring error that anyone whose played Bloodmoon or Dragonborn would have known was an error. It's indicative of a larger problem I have with Zenimax's treatment of the source material.

Khajiit_Ri · June 2016

no problems here. Still enjoying lore regardless of "lore breaking," material.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

Did you say before that this was with regards to a recipe? Maybe recipes are subject to the same lexicological temporal displacement (the one caused by Gandranen Ruins) that pulls other books out of time, like Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls (which was also from the Fourth Era).

At what point do we just accept that Zenimax put a bunch of stuff in the wrong time period?

The Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls thing was clearly done on purpose. I think there's even a note at the end of the book hinting at this. That's fine.

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations for why a food recipe that shouldn't exist yet is in the game? Is that really what this has come to?

I dunno I'd say Gandranen Ruins is a pretty solid argument for displaced texts and recipes. ESO has already added hundreds of lorebooks. Why should they rewrite texts that just reiterate what is written in previous textbooks? And I'm willing to bet that the person who came up with that recipe likely isn't the lead loremaster or writer.

There are a lot of mistakes because ESO is larger than Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind combined. Some things are just gonna slip through the cracks. It's not like the single player games didn't have their fair share of errors.

baratron · June 2016

I don't see Cropsford as an anachronism so much as a nostalgia nod to Oblivion. It seems to me that ZOS decided to put 5 quest hubs around Cyrodiil and tried to space them out equally. Rather than inventing new towns, they simply reused the old names.

ZOS obviously like to reuse maps from older ES games. Look at how similar 2nd Era Anvil is to 3rd Era Anvil. The Guildhalls and Chapel in the same places make sense, but the rest of it goes far beyond coincidence. They're trying to make the towns seem familiar to those of us who have been fans for a while, and I for one appreciate it.

Your comment about blandness seems like a different matter. I agree, base ESO was very generic Western fantasy. (Except for Hammerfell). They're gradually adding more interesting architecture, environments, and animals with the DLC. I'm sure we will eventually see more of Elsweyr, Black Marsh and the Summerset Isles, and they will be worth seeing.

Tib · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations for why a food recipe that shouldn't exist yet is in the game? Is that really what this has come to?

As far as I can see, it's mostly you sitting here and demanding an explanation out of it. I believe many others are fine with references being made to earlier games, and that there are inconsistencies, because we have probably stumbled upon similar situations in real life, when we were not always able to make everything perfectly. I mean, somehow this puts things in a perspective wouldn't you say.

The first thing I thought when I saw the Ayleid ruins was, oh, these look so damn similar to earlier depictions of the ruins (=positive experience). Are you honestly saying that you looked at the same ruins and yelled out in the open 'In Akatosh's name, what have they done!!!' ? If the answer is yes, I will quickly excuse myself from this thread and pretend to forget I wrote a reply here... also, I'll need a drink or two.

Tib · June 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

Did you say before that this was with regards to a recipe? Maybe recipes are subject to the same lexicological temporal displacement (the one caused by Gandranen Ruins) that pulls other books out of time, like Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls (which was also from the Fourth Era).

Oh, Enodoc. *hugs* You might have woken up a lore-incompatible Dragon straight from the 17th Era, ridden by Khaleesi Ayrenn

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations for why a food recipe that shouldn't exist yet is in the game? Is that really what this has come to?

The first thing I thought when I saw the Ayleid ruins was, oh, these look so damn similar to earlier depictions of the ruins (=positive experience). Are you honestly saying that you looked at the same ruins and yelled out in the open 'In Akatosh's name, what have they done!!!' ?

No, not at all. Like i said, it's a minor nitpick but it's the perfect metaphor for what I'm talking about. It's such a minor, random change that was made for no reason other than to make something else grey and colorless.

baratron wrote: »

I don't see Cropsford as an anachronism so much as a nostalgia nod to Oblivion. It seems to me that ZOS decided to put 5 quest hubs around Cyrodiil and tried to space them out equally. Rather than inventing new towns, they simply reused the old names.

ZOS obviously like to reuse maps from older ES games. Look at how similar 2nd Era Anvil is to 3rd Era Anvil. The Guildhalls and Chapel in the same places make sense, but the rest of it goes far beyond coincidence. They're trying to make the towns seem familiar to those of us who have been fans for a while, and I for one appreciate it.

Your comment about blandness seems like a different matter. I agree, base ESO was very generic Western fantasy. (Except for Hammerfell). They're gradually adding more interesting architecture, environments, and animals with the DLC. I'm sure we will eventually see more of Elsweyr, Black Marsh and the Summerset Isles, and they will be worth seeing.

See, the Cropsford thing can almost make sense, but the whole Raven Rock thing is just nonsense. How these people who supposedly played all the previous games and care so much about the Elder Scrolls universe not know that the player helps build Raven Rock in the third era, and that Red Mountain doesn't explode until the fourth era? One is the subject of an entire expansion pack and the other is a massive plot point in between Oblivion and Skyrim. We can retroactively explain it with dragonbreaks, but at what point do we realize that Zenimax simply had no idea what Raven Rock was?

It's just a bit silly and a little insulting.

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Yeah, not buying that one either

But yeah, who knows. Maybe Cyrodiil never was subtropical, maybe the White-Gold Tower's Zero Stone magic changed the landscape when men came to power, maybe the whole "Talos changed the landscape" is just propaganda, or maybe it isn't,...

I guess we'll never find out. A bit of brain food for us

I always chocked it up to plain old climate change and deforestation with a little mythology thrown in to simplify it to the uneducated and glorify the Emperor.

I mean, look at what humans can do to an entire continent in just a couple hundred years...

I imagine the settlement of the Imperial capital could have a similar impact on it's surroundings.

Shunravi · June 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Yeah, not buying that one either

But yeah, who knows. Maybe Cyrodiil never was subtropical, maybe the White-Gold Tower's Zero Stone magic changed the landscape when men came to power, maybe the whole "Talos changed the landscape" is just propaganda, or maybe it isn't,...

I guess we'll never find out. A bit of brain food for us

I always chocked it up to plain old climate change and deforestation with a little mythology thrown in to simplify it to the uneducated and glorify the Emperor.

I mean, look at what humans can do to an entire continent in just a couple hundred years...

I imagine the settlement of the Imperial capital could have a similar impact on it's surroundings.

And a war that burns through so many siege engines and keep repairs...

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Yeah, not buying that one either

But yeah, who knows. Maybe Cyrodiil never was subtropical, maybe the White-Gold Tower's Zero Stone magic changed the landscape when men came to power, maybe the whole "Talos changed the landscape" is just propaganda, or maybe it isn't,...

I guess we'll never find out. A bit of brain food for us

I always chocked it up to plain old climate change and deforestation with a little mythology thrown in to simplify it to the uneducated and glorify the Emperor.

I mean, look at what humans can do to an entire continent in just a couple hundred years...

I imagine the settlement of the Imperial capital could have a similar impact on it's surroundings.

And a war that burns through so many siege engines and keep repairs...

Really just feels like the most logical explanation to me.

Tryxus · June 2016

Those "future" book like Ruminations or recipes like Raven Rock Ash Yams could also have an explanation. I mean, isn't there like an Oblivion realm where all kinds of book from the past, present and future are gathered?

Apocrypha, where all knowledge is hoarded

And that knowledge does find its way to Nirn, like on Khenarti's Roost

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · June 2016

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

WardenofArcherus · June 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

Those "future" book like Ruminations or recipes like Raven Rock Ash Yams could also have an explanation. I mean, isn't there like an Oblivion realm where all kinds of book from the past, present and future are gathered?
Apocrypha, where all knowledge is hoarded

And that knowledge does find its way to Nirn, like on Khenarti's Roost

Other prime examples are "The Dragon Break Re-Examined" (First found in ES:Morrowind, yet it mentioned the "Fall of the Septim Dynasty" years before it actually occurred during ES:Oblivion) and "Where Were You When the Dragon Broke?" (Mannimarco wasn't called the "God of Worms" until his supposed ascension into godhood after the Warp in the West, yet this very book is found in ESO during the second era)

Tryxus · June 2016

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Those "future" book like Ruminations or recipes like Raven Rock Ash Yams could also have an explanation. I mean, isn't there like an Oblivion realm where all kinds of book from the past, present and future are gathered?
Apocrypha, where all knowledge is hoarded

And that knowledge does find its way to Nirn, like on Khenarti's Roost

Other prime examples are "The Dragon Break Re-Examined" (First found in ES:Morrowind, yet it mentioned the "Fall of the Septim Dynasty" years before it actually occurred during ES:Oblivion) and "Where Were You When the Dragon Broke?" (Mannimarco wasn't called the "God of Worms" until his supposed ascension into godhood after the Warp in the West, yet this very book is found in ESO during the second era)

Yup, copies of those from Apocrypha could've found their way to Nirn

That, or ZOS thought it would be funny to place those books in ESO. "Dragon Breaks, bruh!"

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

I understand you're all trying to explain this via dragonbreaks (and that explanation is definitely valid for some in-game books), but do you guys really think Zenimax intentionally took a recipe from the future and flung it into the past for *** and giggles? Or did they just not realize that Raven Rock does not exist yet, and wont have the climate or the populace to make ash yams for a thousand years?

I mean...am I crazy? Or is it silly that we're resorting to time-distortion and alternate timeline theories to explain the existence of a recipe for yams?

We can argue whether or not this MATTERS, I mean I know I'm just a crazy lore-nerd, but are we really making the argument that this is all part of Zenimax's master plan and not a glaring error that we're trying to retroactively explain?

Abeille · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

I understand you're all trying to explain this via dragonbreaks, but do you guys really think Zenimax intentionally took a recipe from the future and flung it into the past for *** and giggles? Or did they just not realize that Raven Rock does not exist yet, and wont have the climate or the populace to make ash yams for a thousand years?

I mean...am I crazy? Or is it silly that we're resorting to time-distortion and alternate timeline theories to explain the existence of a recipe for yams?

What they are saying is that Skyrim's Raven Rock and ESO's Raven Rock might not be the same Raven Rock, and the Red Mountain isn't the only volcano in Morrowind. Ash yams are not even exclusive to Raven Rock or to the 4th era. They were present in Morrowind.

And as others pointed out, there is also the possibility it was in Apocrypha.

We are not resorting to "time-distortion and alternate timeline theories" to explain this recipe. Most explanations on this thread are actually pretty mundane.

I wouldn't say you are crazy, but it does seem like you are just refusing to accept that these inaccuracies can indeed have simple and even obvious explanations. At this point, it looks like you are just closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going "ZOS DOESN'T CARE ZOS DOESN'T CARE".

No one is saying that these are not overlooks. We are just saying that this is bound to happen in such a big game, it is amazing that it doesn't happen more frequently, and offering simple and direct in-universe explanations.

starkerealm · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations...

There's already plenty in game talking about documents being dropped in out of sequence. Including a bit from Telenger talking about finding a copy of Crassius Curio's version of The Lusty Argonian Maid. Ruminations explicitly tells you the book doesn't belong. There's snippets of text scattered throughout the game mentioning that books are showing up which are impossible to explain.

So, no, the idea that you're finding recipes that are also displaced is a lot easier to stomach than any of the garbage that's been getting passed off as Dr Who for the last decade.

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

Red Mountain erupted in the First Era as well.
Check "Sun's Death." In fact it's theorized that the event caused so much ash to fall that Nirnroot nearly went extinct.

As to Raven Rock, it's not exactly an original name... Any place with ravens and rocks might end up being called Raven Rock. And borders are notoriously dynamic.

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations...

There's already plenty in game talking about documents being dropped in out of sequence. Including a bit from Telenger talking about finding a copy of Crassius Curio's version of The Lusty Argonian Maid. Ruminations explicitly tells you the book doesn't belong. There's snippets of text scattered throughout the game mentioning that books are showing up which are impossible to explain.

So, no, the idea that you're finding recipes that are also displaced is a lot easier to stomach than any of the garbage that's been getting passed off as Dr Who for the last decade.

While you're not wrong and timey-wimey reasons are to account for certain elements of the story; I think it better, from a lore perspective, to analyze less hand-wavey explanations for apparent anachronisms. More fun, too.

starkerealm · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

We can argue whether or not this MATTERS, I mean I know I'm just a crazy lore-nerd, but are we really making the argument that this is all part of Zenimax's master plan and not a glaring error that we're trying to retroactively explain?

Honestly? The documents really don't matter. That's assumed to be jumbled. Stuff like Dawnguard, and the Black Briars being in game are a lot harder to explain. Even the Whiterun Thane joke is a bit odd.

I'm inclined to believe the theory that ESO was originally supposed to be a 4E game, and then got "rescheduled" mid-development. It explains why the Thalmore are suddenly relevant (they were something of a retcon in Skyrim), or why the Khajiit, and Valenwood are part of the Dominion.

But, the documents? That one has a ready made handwave set up.

Abeille · June 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

Red Mountain erupted in the First Era as well.
Check "Sun's Death." In fact it's theorized that the event caused so much ash to fall that Nirnroot nearly went extinct.

As to Raven Rock, it's not exactly an original name... Any place with ravens and rocks might end being called Raven Rock. And borders are notoriously dynamic.

I completely forgot about the Red Mountain erupting in the First Era >.<

Either way, ash yams in Morrowind.