"Why does Cropsford exist in the 2nd Era?" and other bizarre anachronisms

Tryxus

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

attackjet

Pretty awesome discovery, people saying its just a lore mistake are probably wrong...

This has got to be a cool "easter egg" mabye....

I'm going to do some searchingin cyrodiil now that you mentioned this....

Probably daedra worshipers

Tdroid

Accordng to the same quest in Obliivon, it was a plot of land that had previous owners. Simple matter of fact is that fertile lands tend to not remain unoccupied for long, because farming = food. And food = reason to settle there.

That the names have been carried over might be a bit strange in the case of Rorikstead(I'm guessing oversight on behalf on Bethesda Game Studios), but for Cropsford it is likely a name that has remained in use for that particular area for a long time. Like the names Nibenay, Colovia, the Jeralls etc. have been in use for a long time.

RealLifeRedguard

Tdroid wrote: »

Accordng to the same quest in Obliivon, it was a plot of land that had previous owners

Where in the quest was this ever stated? I've played through that quest in oblivion a million times and I don't remember them ever saying the land used to be occupied by anyone else. As I recall, the bretons bought unoccupied land from the government. They had no clue why it was so cheap and why no one had built there before, but they find out why when goblins attack.

RealLifeRedguard

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Admittedly in this case the most likely explanation is that the people making Cyrodiil in ESO were basing it on maps from Oblivion and missed the fact that a settlement shouldn't be there. But I think it's entirely possible to come up with reasonable explanations without resorting to extremes like Dragon Breaks.

This is what I'm trying to get at. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that the owners of the new Cropsford happened to come up with the exact same name on their own (the London example isn't a coincidence. They knew there was a town called London before, and gave it the same name. In ES, the breton immigrants seem to come up with the name on their own), but I think it's clear that no one at Zenimax played through the Oblivion quest, and they just copypasted a town with the same name in ESO, not knowing the town shouldn't exist yet.

Why do you persist in insisting that ZoS messed up when you've already been given the answer?

Tryxus wrote: »

From the UESP

Why do you assume that the Bretons, who bought the land cheaply off the government, wouldn't be aware of the land's history?

That quote from the UESP is unsourced. Nowhere in the quest does it say that the land was ever occupied by anyone else.

dodgehopper_ESO

Tryxus wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

From the UESP

Why do you assume that the Bretons, who bought the land cheaply off the government, wouldn't be aware of the land's history?

Highlighted the important parts of that question. Think about those words and you'll figure it out

Or hit the spoiler button

Immigrants from High Rock who got suckered into buying a piece of worthless land by the Cyrodilic Government

Think about it...

Government official: "We've got this nice plot of land going cheap. Cropsford".

Homeless Breton: "Cheap you say? We'll take it... Cropsford you said? Good name, I like it."

Pretty much it

A group of farmers from High Rock heard they could get a piece of land in Cyrodiil cheap, so they sold their homes and moved there. And the Imperials told them not everything they NEEDED to know, but rather everything they WANTED them to know. Things like location, size, soil, fertility, history (former settlement: Cropsford) and purposely left out the goblin war part.

And yeah, farmers are pretty unimaginitive so they copied the name: "We're planning on calling it Cropsford."

But then the Champion of Cyrodiil passed through and put a stop to the goblin wars...

... and so, 3E 433, Cropsford the 2nd was founded.

I don't know, I'm sure there are plenty of imaginative farmers. Perhaps THOSE farmers were unimaginative.

RealLifeRedguard

Here is the quest itself from Oblivion, with the dialogue and all.

https://youtu.be/wbiwYNZVOro?t=223

That UESP blurb is based on nothing. It's never stated in Oblivion that the land had any other owners. The immigrants came up with the name Cropsford and bought the empty land from the government.

dodgehopper_ESO

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Recremen

Cropsford is in a very unique situation, dragonically speaking. It is to be founded in the 3rd Era, or will fail to be founded depending on Player action. Maybe it's overrun by goblins instead. Maybe The Hero Of Kvatch goes on a murder spree. Probably all of these things are true. But here we are, 2nd Era, and Cropsford already exists and is under constant threat by goblins.

Quite possibly, the town eventually loses the fight with the goblins, only to get refounded later in a fit of recurring irony symbolic of the overarching kalpic mistake/hubris/blessing of creation. Or perhaps its foundation really was flung back in time and mixed with other traces of the 2nd Era. After all, in one version of Cyrodiil the land is supposed to be dotted with rice farms. Yet the main farmer in Cropsford seems to be trying to grow corn. On the other hand, he is trying to grow it like rice, inundating it with water, and meeting with little success. There is certainly something very screwy going on in Cropsford.

RealLifeRedguard

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Yeah. If CHIM worked backwards then there would be no records of it being a jungle at all because it never was one.

Tryxus

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

Yeah, not buying that one either

But yeah, who knows. Maybe Cyrodiil never was subtropical, maybe the White-Gold Tower's Zero Stone magic changed the landscape when men came to power, maybe the whole "Talos changed the landscape" is just propaganda, or maybe it isn't,...

I guess we'll never find out. A bit of brain food for us

Abeille

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

I agree, and it is why I prefer the White-Gold Tower explanation, myself.

Tryxus

Abeille wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

I agree, and it is why I prefer the White-Gold Tower explanation, myself.

It makes the most sense, since a certain Zero Stone (Heart of Lorkhan) created a volcano (Red Mountain/Red Tower). This shows that the Stones do have the ability to change the landscape somewhat since it was able to create a Tower (and maybe why the landscape in Morrowind is so vastly different from the rest of Tamriel)

Abeille

Tryxus wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Well that could be explained by CHIM

Or this book

The backwards-Chim explanation is kind of weak in my view.

I agree, and it is why I prefer the White-Gold Tower explanation, myself.

It makes the most sense, since a certain Zero Stone (Heart of Lorkhan) created a volcano (Red Mountain/Red Tower). This shows that the Stones do have the ability to change the landscape somewhat since it was able to create a Tower (and maybe why the landscape in Morrowind is so vastly different from the rest of Tamriel)

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. And giving the circumstances, it also makes a lot of sense that "Talos changed the landscape" was just propaganda, like you said on your previous post. I take most things attributed to heroes and gods in TES with a grain of salt. Actually, I take everything seen as a "fact" in the games with a grain of salt, unless the player themselves did it. I like to play with the "What if everything we think we know is wrong?" idea, and I think this is a franchise that really allows us to think like that because so much of the lore is based on what NPCs, who are fallible and who have their own biases, tell us.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

Because that jungle reference was first mentioned in an outdated book that existed long before the official lore was established.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Not everything in ESO can be accepted as being "lorefriendly" and un-lorefriendly things can be disregarded such as Cropsford existing.

Wreuntzylla

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Like many of you, I played Oblivion as a kid.

One sidequest in particular stands out, where you meet a group of breton immigrants who were scammed into buying a piece of barren, goblin-infested lands in the Nibenay basin. Their leader says he planned on calling the land "cropsford".



So, being the hero that you are, you kill the goblins, save the day, and watch the little piece of land grow into a small village over the course of several in-game months.



This is a completely new settlement that you helped build.

So, people of ESO, I ask you:

Why the hell is Cropsford a thing in the second era?



Is it just a coincidence that a completely different town with the exact same name existed in the exact same place several hundred years ago, and disappeared without a trace or ruin, only to be rebuild in the late third-era? Is there some timey-wimey stuff of which I'm unaware?

So, do we have any information on the Cropsford that exists in the second era? Is it related in any way to the one we help build in Oblivion? Let's discuss.

Oh, and #MakeSummersetGreatAgain.

Acre was built on Acre was built on Acre.... Maybe they were scammed into buying the buried village of cropsford.

It's amazing how the old world countries did not bother with demolition and just built upwards....

bedlom

There is no answer that makes sense to lore if compared to Oblivion.
As anyone who has followed TES for some time will tell you, TES's lore is anything but consistent.
Like alot of worlds similar to TES (lore wise) it has gone through several revamps, rewrites and redesigns.
I notice alot of preaching on these forums about the lore from players who either forget or don't even know this.

Whatzituyah

Also in the Shivering Isle expansion of Oblivion...

Sheogorath was Jyggalag because of a curse and is free once every era known as the Grey March

will this happen in ESO? I think that would be an oversight if it doesn't. I think Cropsford and that other city do break cannon a little.

My mistake that happened at the end of an era.

TrueNord47

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

the black marsh area from oblivion is cut out. its a shame really was one of the better areas

Turelus

One thing that has always gotten me about threads like this.

When Bethesda make changes to lore and then retcon it or explain it everyone's like "well, I guess... YEAH BETHESDA!" the moment ZOS does exactly the same thing this it's "nope! BOO ZOS!"

When you have a series that spans a number of games these things happen, it's not ruining the series so just accept issues and go enjoy the game again. Make some head canon if that helps you get past your complaints.

Abeille

Turelus wrote: »

One thing that has always gotten me about threads like this.

When Bethesda make changes to lore and then retcon it or explain it everyone's like "well, I guess... YEAH BETHESDA!" the moment ZOS does exactly the same thing this it's "nope! BOO ZOS!"

When you have a series that spans a number of games these things happen, it's not ruining the series so just accept issues and go enjoy the game again. Make some head canon if that helps you get past your complaints.

People complain when Bethesda is the one to do it, too. There are people who do not consider Skyrim to be canon because of the way it handled Alduin and dragon lore in general. I'm serious here. Really, I wish I was kidding. Worse, there are people that consider fanfics written by a former loremaster after he left the company as canon, but not Skyrim (or ESO).

But it is indeed more common when ZOS is the one to do it. A lot of people don't know or ignore that ZOS works with Bethesda to ensure that the lore is being followed in ESO.

Shunravi

Abeille wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

One thing that has always gotten me about threads like this.

When Bethesda make changes to lore and then retcon it or explain it everyone's like "well, I guess... YEAH BETHESDA!" the moment ZOS does exactly the same thing this it's "nope! BOO ZOS!"

When you have a series that spans a number of games these things happen, it's not ruining the series so just accept issues and go enjoy the game again. Make some head canon if that helps you get past your complaints.

People complain when Bethesda is the one to do it, too. There are people who do not consider Skyrim to be canon because of the way it handled Alduin and dragon lore in general. I'm serious here. Really, I wish I was kidding. Worse, there are people that consider fanfics written by a former loremaster after he left the company as canon, but not Skyrim (or ESO).

But it is indeed more common when ZOS is the one to do it. A lot of people don't know or ignore that ZOS works with Bethesda to ensure that the lore is being followed in ESO.

they write with the unreliable narrator for a reason. anyone who preaches pure cannon doesn't know their stuff.

Xundiin

JD2013 wrote: »

Cropsford can be any town that stood there, past or present.

For example, IRL several towns and cities have been destroyed by wars etc and rebuilt (albeit not hundreds of years apart). I am sure the name would be there on maps from this era in the future.

There are french towns that where destroyed and never rebuilt during WW I that are still on french maps. And yes, these are current maps dated within the last 5 years.

dodgehopper_ESO

TrueNord47 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't there a jungle in Cyrodiil?

the black marsh area from oblivion is cut out. its a shame really was one of the better areas

Some of my favorite missions were in that part of that map. That one with the scamps made me so angry, but it was cool. Loved all those swamps. I have to admit I'm really appreciating the Mediterranean feel of the Golden Coast. It really beautiful in this game, and it stays true to the themes of Oblivion as well.

Enodoc

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Also in the Shivering Isle expansion of Oblivion...

Sheogorath was Jyggalag because of a curse and is free once every era known as the Grey March

will this happen in ESO?

No. We're not at the end of an Era in ESO, so it won't be happening.

Dracane

Crospford was destroyed by a goblin assault after the alliance war. Even in the game, these goblins are already spying the village like crazy. Though at this time, all the war heroes passing by, keep the goblins busy.

But after the war, no stranger passes by to do that. So it was only a matter of time, until the goblins reclaimed their land.

Abeille

Shunravi wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

One thing that has always gotten me about threads like this.

When Bethesda make changes to lore and then retcon it or explain it everyone's like "well, I guess... YEAH BETHESDA!" the moment ZOS does exactly the same thing this it's "nope! BOO ZOS!"

When you have a series that spans a number of games these things happen, it's not ruining the series so just accept issues and go enjoy the game again. Make some head canon if that helps you get past your complaints.

People complain when Bethesda is the one to do it, too. There are people who do not consider Skyrim to be canon because of the way it handled Alduin and dragon lore in general. I'm serious here. Really, I wish I was kidding. Worse, there are people that consider fanfics written by a former loremaster after he left the company as canon, but not Skyrim (or ESO).

But it is indeed more common when ZOS is the one to do it. A lot of people don't know or ignore that ZOS works with Bethesda to ensure that the lore is being followed in ESO.

they write with the unreliable narrator for a reason. anyone who preaches pure cannon doesn't know their stuff.

Yes! And it works so well, too. It is a lot like real life: There are as many "truths" as there are points of view. NPCs have many, MANY biases, especially in a world with so many racial and religious conflicts. And it is easy to find conflicting stories even within the same game.

It is great because the characters feel more realistic, in my opinion. Like actual people. They exaggerate, they lie, they understand a situation differently, they just repeat what the local priest said, they make mistakes. It is my favourite aspect of the TES lore and one of the reasons why I stick with the franchise. I am always doubting everything and looking for more information.

C0wrex

Dragon Breaks are pretty cool!

Khajiit_Ri

Khajiit-Ri wonders if any lore is truly canon, tho some may believe Dragon Breaks and Hermaeus Mora are scapegoat explanations, one needs only look at the many anachronisms that appear in IRL literary works.

This one does not believe time is a concrete, set in stone, one way arrow, but an arrow that points in all directions simultaneously, everything that will be and won't be have the potential to exist at any given time, and given the nature of Tamriel, a world that exists on the premise of magics, well that makes anything possible.

Also there is the nature of written history and reliability of narrators, Nord may say " I founded so called land and named it," which maybe true, but to call it lore-breaking is hyperbolic at best.

After all, how many vestiges are there? How is it possible? How come if this one is not in the same instance as you he can not see you? because all of it is one big dragon break yes? It has always been.