"Why does Cropsford exist in the 2nd Era?" and other bizarre anachronisms

RealLifeRedguard

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

I understand you're all trying to explain this via dragonbreaks, but do you guys really think Zenimax intentionally took a recipe from the future and flung it into the past for *** and giggles? Or did they just not realize that Raven Rock does not exist yet, and wont have the climate or the populace to make ash yams for a thousand years?

I mean...am I crazy? Or is it silly that we're resorting to time-distortion and alternate timeline theories to explain the existence of a recipe for yams?

What they are saying is that Skyrim's Raven Rock and ESO's Raven Rock might not be the same Raven Rock, and the Red Mountain isn't the only volcano in Morrowind. Ash yams are not even exclusive to Raven Rock or to the 4th era. They were present in Morrowind.

And as others pointed out, there is also the possibility it was in Apocrypha.

We are not resorting to "time-distortion and alternate timeline theories" to explain this recipe. Most explanations on this thread are actually pretty mundane.

I wouldn't say you are crazy, but it does seem like you are just refusing to accept that these inaccuracies can indeed have simple and even obvious explanations. At this point, it looks like you are just closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going "ZOS DOESN'T CARE ZOS DOESN'T CARE".

No one is saying that these are not overlooks. We are just saying that this is bound to happen in such a big game, it is amazing that it doesn't happen more frequently, and offering simple and direct in-universe explanations.

I know they're not exclusive to Raven Rock. That's sort of why it's so strange. My point is that Raven Rock is a frozen wasteland / northern forest without until the 4th era. You can't grow ash yams on Solstheim. It's that simple. Zenimax wasn't aware that Raven Rock wasn't always an ashen wasteland. It's as simple as that. They apparently never played Bloodmoon or Dragonborn.

And okay...let's be real here: why is Hermaeus Mora so eager to throw random yam recipes out of Apocrypha and into Nirn? I can buy that some things have slipped through, or that powerful sorcerers have stolen books from the future and they've ended up in random places for players to find...

...but are we really saying that Zenimax made a conscious decision to make a yam recipe from the future fall out of apocrypha and land in the kitchens of Tamriel?

Just how sloppy is Hermaeus Mora with his future-books anyway?

Are we really having this discussion?

Or did Zenimax simply make a mistake here, and we're trying to retroactively explain it.

starkerealm

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

And okay...let's be real here: why is Hermaeus Mora so eager to throw random yam recipes out of Apocrypha and into Nirn? I can buy that some things have slipped through, or that powerful sorcerers have stolen books from the future and they've ended up in random places for players to find...

In theory, Hermaeus Mora uses books from the future (and possibly alternate dimensions) as bait, to lure readers to him, as they try to figure out, "wtf did I just read?"

As for why he would scatter recipes? *shrugs* I'm honestly not inclined to think about that one too much. Especially when there's more credible anachronisms like... say, Cropsford, to address.

WardenofArcherus

@RealLifeRedguard

At this point, all I can say is that your core question is something we players cannot answer. We are not members of Zenimax or Bethesda staff. If your hope here is to keep this thread alive long enough to have one of them chime in, I'd suggest a better method of getting an answer from them is to contact them in a more direct fashion.

ShedsHisTail

starkerealm wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

We can argue whether or not this MATTERS, I mean I know I'm just a crazy lore-nerd, but are we really making the argument that this is all part of Zenimax's master plan and not a glaring error that we're trying to retroactively explain?

Honestly? The documents really don't matter. That's assumed to be jumbled. Stuff like Dawnguard, and the Black Briars being in game are a lot harder to explain.

See, stuff like this doesn't seem all that strange to me. I mean, if you get a group with some degree of notoriety that falls out of favor and disappears; and then later on a completely new group with a similar agenda appears, it makes sense that they might try to link themselves (if only in name) to said previous group and try to ride that reputation.

Especially in the Elder Scrolls universe where you see ancient secret societies being rebuilt on the regular; I'm looking at The Blades, the Dragonguard, the Morag Tong. These are all organizations which were all but extinct at one time and returned under completely new leadership.

It becomes even easier to explain for some groups when you consider that's one of the benefits of having immortal patron lords (daedra). You're group can go away completely, but as long as that daedra is still kicking, it can come back.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

I understand you're all trying to explain this via dragonbreaks (and that explanation is definitely valid for some in-game books), but do you guys really think Zenimax intentionally took a recipe from the future and flung it into the past for *** and giggles? Or did they just not realize that Raven Rock does not exist yet, and wont have the climate or the populace to make ash yams for a thousand years?

I mean...am I crazy? Or is it silly that we're resorting to time-distortion and alternate timeline theories to explain the existence of a recipe for yams?

We can argue whether or not this MATTERS, I mean I know I'm just a crazy lore-nerd, but are we really making the argument that this is all part of Zenimax's master plan and not a glaring error that we're trying to retroactively explain?

But Raven Rock was originally founded by the East Empire Company wasn't it? New Ebonheart, the one we see in Morrowind on Vvardenfell was also founded by Imperials. How do we know it's not the same deal?

From a meta perspective it may be an error, but I'd hardly call it glaring. What impact does a recipe have on the story or game play? Why would you let something like this color your enjoyment of the game?

ShedsHisTail

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

Raven Rock isn't part of Morrowind until the 4th era. It's an island between Morrowind and Skyrim inhabited mostly by the tribal skaal nords. There also wont be any ash with which to make ash yams until the 4th era when Red Mountain erupts.

I understand you're all trying to explain this via dragonbreaks, but do you guys really think Zenimax intentionally took a recipe from the future and flung it into the past for *** and giggles? Or did they just not realize that Raven Rock does not exist yet, and wont have the climate or the populace to make ash yams for a thousand years?

I mean...am I crazy? Or is it silly that we're resorting to time-distortion and alternate timeline theories to explain the existence of a recipe for yams?

What they are saying is that Skyrim's Raven Rock and ESO's Raven Rock might not be the same Raven Rock, and the Red Mountain isn't the only volcano in Morrowind. Ash yams are not even exclusive to Raven Rock or to the 4th era. They were present in Morrowind.

And as others pointed out, there is also the possibility it was in Apocrypha.

We are not resorting to "time-distortion and alternate timeline theories" to explain this recipe. Most explanations on this thread are actually pretty mundane.

I wouldn't say you are crazy, but it does seem like you are just refusing to accept that these inaccuracies can indeed have simple and even obvious explanations. At this point, it looks like you are just closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going "ZOS DOESN'T CARE ZOS DOESN'T CARE".

No one is saying that these are not overlooks. We are just saying that this is bound to happen in such a big game, it is amazing that it doesn't happen more frequently, and offering simple and direct in-universe explanations.

I know they're not exclusive to Raven Rock. That's sort of why it's so strange. My point is that Raven Rock is a frozen wasteland / northern forest without until the 4th era. You can't grow ash yams on Solstheim. It's that simple.

Thing is, you can't grow much of anything in an environment like that.
In fact, I'd bet that any and all settlements which have ever inhabited that space would have had to import most produce. And with Vvardenfell right there, that's definitely the most logical place to get it.

While they may not have been able to farm Ashyams on Solsthiem, there's no reason to assume they didn't have access to them.

In fact, this scenario has a certain real-world parallel. Potatoes (closely related to yams) aren't native to Ireland; but once the Irish got access to them through trade, they found them to be quite hearty and fairly easy to cultivate. The Irish did more to make the potato a well known food stuf than the people for whom it was native ever did.

RealLifeRedguard

starkerealm wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

We can argue whether or not this MATTERS, I mean I know I'm just a crazy lore-nerd, but are we really making the argument that this is all part of Zenimax's master plan and not a glaring error that we're trying to retroactively explain?

Honestly? The documents really don't matter. That's assumed to be jumbled. Stuff like Dawnguard, and the Black Briars being in game are a lot harder to explain. Even the Whiterun Thane joke is a bit odd.

I'm inclined to believe the theory that ESO was originally supposed to be a 4E game, and then got "rescheduled" mid-development. It explains why the Thalmore are suddenly relevant (they were something of a retcon in Skyrim), or why the Khajiit, and Valenwood are part of the Dominion.

But, the documents? That one has a ready made handwave set up.

So at the very least we're in agreement that there are numerous inconsistencies and errors in the game world. I guess it comes down to whether this stuff bothers you or not.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

There's also the possibility that Raven Rock is the name of another settlement in Morrowind and the Raven Rock in Bloodmoon/Dragonborn is "New Raven Rock" a la Ebonheart.

But Raven Rock was originally founded by the East Empire Company wasn't it? New Ebonheart, the one we see in Morrowind on Vvardenfell was also founded by Imperials. How do we know it's not the same deal?

From a meta perspective it may be an error, but I'd hardly call it glaring. What impact does a recipe have on the story or game play? Why would you let something like this color your enjoyment of the game?

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

ShedsHisTail

Don't stop talking about it now... This is the first interesting lore discussion I've seen in a really long time.

Shunravi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Don't stop talking about it now... This is the first interesting lore discussion I've seen in a really long time.

Yup

ShedsHisTail

Man, I gotta go in a couple minutes.

Okay, lets tackle Black-Briar Mead next.
What's the problem there?

In the 4th Era, Skyrim, the Black-Briars are an influential family in Riften who seem to have made their fortune selling delicious mead.

In the 2nd Era, ESO, the Black-Briars are a significantly less influential family based outside of Riften, making mead (apparently). While 1000 years is a long time for a family dynasty to remain, why is it hard to believe that the Black-Briar line has endured and sales of their tasty mead have allowed them to become more influential in their regional politics?

RealLifeRedguard

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Man, I gotta go in a couple minutes.

Okay, lets tackle Black-Briar Mead next.
What's the problem there?

In the 4th Era, Skyrim, the Black-Briars are an influential family in Riften who seem to have made their fortune selling delicious mead.

In the 2nd Era, ESO, the Black-Briars are a significantly less influential family based outside of Riften, making mead (apparently). While 1000 years is a long time for a family dynasty to remain, why is it hard to believe that the Black-Briar line has endured and sales of their tasty mead have allowed them to become more influential in their regional politics?

It's not weird at all in a vacuum.

Honestly this doesn't even bother me so much, and I'm not sure why it bothers others, but I feel like it's a matter of credibility.

If it weren't for all these OTHER inconsistencies that require loads of headcanon, time-travel theories and major suspension of disbelief, then no one would be questioning this one little thing.

But when there are SO MANY little examples of things existing in time periods they probably shouldn't, it breaks some people's suspension of disbelief. We're not as willing to "buy it" as we would be otherwise.

But yeah, the Black Briar thing on its own is the least problematic thing here.

ShedsHisTail

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Man, I gotta go in a couple minutes.

Okay, lets tackle Black-Briar Mead next.
What's the problem there?

In the 4th Era, Skyrim, the Black-Briars are an influential family in Riften who seem to have made their fortune selling delicious mead.

In the 2nd Era, ESO, the Black-Briars are a significantly less influential family based outside of Riften, making mead (apparently). While 1000 years is a long time for a family dynasty to remain, why is it hard to believe that the Black-Briar line has endured and sales of their tasty mead have allowed them to become more influential in their regional politics?

It's not weird at all in a vacuum.

Honestly this doesn't even bother me so much, and I'm not sure why it bothers others, but I feel like it's a matter of credibility.

If it weren't for all these OTHER inconsistencies that require loads of headcanon, time-travel theories and major suspension of disbelief, then no one would be questioning this one little thing.

But when there are SO MANY little examples of things existing in time periods they probably shouldn't, it breaks some people's suspension of disbelief. We're not as willing to "buy it" as we would be otherwise.

But yeah, the Black Briar thing on its own is the least problematic thing here.

But that's kind of my point.

I think if we apply some thought to a lot of these things we can arrive at conclusions which, though not explicitly supported by canon, are at least plausible. Some, like the ash yams paradox and the Black-Briar family, in completely mundane ways.

I mean, the world is huge and I can't expect the lore team to give detailed explanations of every recurring element. But, I think if we change our perception from looking at all of these things as errors and instead treat them like historical gaps then we can begin to see them in a more chronologically consistent light.

Our own world is riddled with archeological discoveries which, at first, don't appear to fit the accepted timelines. It's only when we stop naysaying and instead go, "Maybe we're missing something." can we begin to fill in those historical gaps.

It's also way more fun this way, than it is to get grumpy about it.

Faulgor

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

RealLifeRedguard

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Man, I gotta go in a couple minutes.

Okay, lets tackle Black-Briar Mead next.
What's the problem there?

In the 4th Era, Skyrim, the Black-Briars are an influential family in Riften who seem to have made their fortune selling delicious mead.

In the 2nd Era, ESO, the Black-Briars are a significantly less influential family based outside of Riften, making mead (apparently). While 1000 years is a long time for a family dynasty to remain, why is it hard to believe that the Black-Briar line has endured and sales of their tasty mead have allowed them to become more influential in their regional politics?

It's not weird at all in a vacuum.

Honestly this doesn't even bother me so much, and I'm not sure why it bothers others, but I feel like it's a matter of credibility.

If it weren't for all these OTHER inconsistencies that require loads of headcanon, time-travel theories and major suspension of disbelief, then no one would be questioning this one little thing.

But when there are SO MANY little examples of things existing in time periods they probably shouldn't, it breaks some people's suspension of disbelief. We're not as willing to "buy it" as we would be otherwise.

But yeah, the Black Briar thing on its own is the least problematic thing here.

But that's kind of my point.

I think if we apply some thought to a lot of these things we can arrive at conclusions which, though not explicitly supported by canon, are at least plausible. Some, like the ash yams paradox and the Black-Briar family, in completely mundane ways.

I mean, the world is huge and I can't expect the lore team to give detailed explanations of every recurring element. But, I think if we change our perception from looking at all of these things as errors and instead treat them like historical gaps then we can begin to see them in a more chronologically consistent light.

Our own world is riddled with archeological discoveries which, at first, don't appear to fit the accepted timelines. It's only when we stop naysaying and instead go, "Maybe we're missing something." can we begin to fill in those historical gaps.

It's also way more fun this way, than it is to get grumpy about it.

See, the ash yams thing bothers me so much more than the Black Briar thing because it's so blatantly obvious.

Yes, we can come up with in-game explanations to justify this, but you and I both seem to acknowledge that Zenimax didn't do this intentionally. It was an error.

So, understanding that, how is it they didn't know Raven Rock was built by the third empire? How did they not know that Raven Rock wont have any ash in it until the fourth era? Did they not play Bloodmoon or Dragonborn? It's just sort of baffling to me.

RealLifeRedguard

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

I guess this is my real problem with the game. Skyrim, for all its flaws, was a step in the right direction back to a stranger Tamriel. It was a small step, but a step forward nontheless. ESO seems to suck out half the color, life, fun, and exoticism out of Nirn, and all these inconsistencies do is make me feel like they really don't care. Sure, there's some exotic, weird stuff out there, but even simple stuff like the dunmer crafting style seem needlessly "toned down". How is obsidian their main crafting material? As I recall they make most of their armors out of bonemold, chitin, draugr-shells and netch-leather. Why tone down all the cool bug-stuff the dunmer are known for?

It just seems needless and insulting, and coupled with all the anachronisms and inconsistencies just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Someone should make a list of every unlorefriendly thing they can think of and ZoS need to remove their references or rename them, that would fix the lore in this game, that and rotating the IC so it's the correct way around, its no surprise a lot of people don't regard ESO as canon.

ShedsHisTail

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

I guess this is my real problem with the game. Skyrim, for all its flaws, was a step in the right direction back to a stranger Tamriel. It was a small step, but a step forward nontheless. ESO seems to suck out half the color, life, fun, and exoticism out of Nirn, and all these inconsistencies do is make me feel like they really don't care. Sure, there's some exotic, weird stuff out there, but even simple stuff like the dunmer crafting style seem needlessly "toned down". How is obsidian their main crafting material? As I recall they make most of their armors out of bonemold, chitin, draugr-shells and netch-leather. Why tone down all the cool bug-stuff the dunmer are known for?

It just seems needless and insulting, and coupled with all the anachronisms and inconsistencies just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Well therein lies your problem; you're allowing Morrowind to color your Elder Scrolls experience to too great a degree.

You say that it feels as though the world is being "de-exotified" and that's only reinforced by these apparent anachronisms because you see that as just another facet of the apathy you're perceiving on the part of the developers and lore team.

But here's the thing; Morrowind is an outlier. Morrowind was very exotic, absolutely. It's one of my all time favorite games and that unique environment is a huge aspect of it. But, when placed along side the other four Elder Scrolls games in the series, it's the only one that really makes any dramatic effort to break the high fantasy mold. Arena, Daggefall, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all, in essence, pretty generic high-fantasy environments.

And then there's the conanical inconsistencies; that's been a factor forever. That's where the whole "Cyrodiil used to be a jungle" discussion comes from. Every single game revisits and revises the lore of the game before it. There were no Dwemer in Daggerfall, there were Dwarven weapons and armor, but no mention of Dwemer. In fact, prior to Morrowind, there are no mentions of Mer at all, just various elves. Now, you can call this building on existing lore, and I'd agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that the Lore in this universe is fictional and it evolves.

Tamriel, when taken in the context of a whole continent is not especially exotic. It's men, elves, half elves, orcs, cat people and lizard men. One of the only really unique features of those earlier games was he complete absence of dragons. In that sense, contrary to your opinion, Skyrim was a step further into the "de-exotification" of Nirn. Reintroduction of dragons into the story made Tamriel that much more like Middle Earth.

As to Vvardenfell and Dunmer culture, if you recall, the Mournhold expansion for Morrowind took you to mainland Morrowind, and things were very different from Vvarndenfell. Much less netch leather and chitin, and a lot more stone and metalwork, not to mention and almost steampunk vibe. Vvardenfell is a volcanic island with minimal resources; so it makes sense they'd use what they have (chitin, dreugh shells, bone mold, netch leather) available. Hell, their biggest cities are constructed of clay. On the mainland, they've got forests available, a more ready and easily worked resource. Hopefully, when ESO returns us to Vvardenfell, we'll arrive on an island dominated by ashlander tribes with more of that indigenous culture; but for now, the mainland zones we have are actually significantly more exotic than Mournhold was back in Elder Scrolls III.

Personally it's always bugged me that the inhabitants of Vvardenfell are the only peoples in Tamriel who, in -thousands- of years, have figured out how to put a pointy rock on the end of a stick.

Now, you're right, some of these elements that bug you are probably oversight or "mistakes." There's a very big group developing this game, and it's very possible that the recipe team isn't running names past the lore team to confirm chronological conformity. Such things give us three options: We can ignore it completely, we can have fun with it and try to fit it into the timeline, or we can continue to *** on a franchise we love just because lore inconsistencies still exist in the same way they have since game number two.

Personally, I like the lore inconsistencies. I love thinking of Tamriel as a dynamic world where I -don't- know everything. A world where the books I read in game might be giving me bad information because the author was biased, or drunk, or the story is simply mythology used to cover up actual events. It gives me something to explore on my own, thought experiments and theories. That's a level of authenticity, however inadvertent, that you don't get in other game worlds.

I chose to accept it as such.

ShedsHisTail

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Someone should make a list of every unlorefriendly thing they can think of and ZoS need to remove their references or rename them, that would fix the lore in this game, that and rotating the IC so it's the correct way around, its no surprise a lot of people don't regard ESO as canon.

Yeah, do that.
That way I can start explaining them.

Korah_Eaglecry

Why arent anyone calling out Orsinium

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

I guess this is my real problem with the game. Skyrim, for all its flaws, was a step in the right direction back to a stranger Tamriel. It was a small step, but a step forward nontheless. ESO seems to suck out half the color, life, fun, and exoticism out of Nirn, and all these inconsistencies do is make me feel like they really don't care. Sure, there's some exotic, weird stuff out there, but even simple stuff like the dunmer crafting style seem needlessly "toned down". How is obsidian their main crafting material? As I recall they make most of their armors out of bonemold, chitin, draugr-shells and netch-leather. Why tone down all the cool bug-stuff the dunmer are known for?

It just seems needless and insulting, and coupled with all the anachronisms and inconsistencies just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Everything about the crafting system is very rudimentary. Theres no thought or soul in it and its obvious they were looking for a broad audience that wouldnt have a clue about Elder Scrolls when they made half the things in game. They went with the simple and dumbed down version hoping to pull more people in.

ShedsHisTail

Also @RealLifeRedguard , where are you getting this "no ash until the Fourth Era" idea for Raven Rock?

Red Mountain is an active volcano which has erupted, catastrophically, at least once prior to the 4th Era blanketing huge swaths of Tamriel in ash. Second, we don't even know if the presence of ash is relevant. Just because they're called ash yams doesn't mean they require ash to grow. Iceberg lettuce certainly doesn't only grow on icebergs.

1.) You're assuming that in 1,000 years there's never been another Raven Rock,even though it's a very generic name. (In this you're probably right it was almost certainly intended as a nod to the other games, but it makes it no less of an assumption).

2.)You're assuming that in order for there to be Raven Rock Ash Yams, they have to be cultivated in Raven Rock rather than imported (even though ash yams are available world wide and we're talking about a recipe not a species of tuber).

3.) You're assuming they must only grow in ash, despite having no reason to assume so.

I'm not trying to be critical, but you have to see the irony in the fact that your objections require almost as much supposition as my reconciliations.

ShedsHisTail

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Why arent anyone calling out Orsinium

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

I guess this is my real problem with the game. Skyrim, for all its flaws, was a step in the right direction back to a stranger Tamriel. It was a small step, but a step forward nontheless. ESO seems to suck out half the color, life, fun, and exoticism out of Nirn, and all these inconsistencies do is make me feel like they really don't care. Sure, there's some exotic, weird stuff out there, but even simple stuff like the dunmer crafting style seem needlessly "toned down". How is obsidian their main crafting material? As I recall they make most of their armors out of bonemold, chitin, draugr-shells and netch-leather. Why tone down all the cool bug-stuff the dunmer are known for?

It just seems needless and insulting, and coupled with all the anachronisms and inconsistencies just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Everything about the crafting system is very rudimentary. Theres no thought or soul in it and its obvious they were looking for a broad audience that wouldnt have a clue about Elder Scrolls when they made half the things in game. They went with the simple and dumbed down version hoping to pull more people in.

For crafting, I tend to see the motif materials as ornamentation.
Dunmer clearly don't make armor or weapons out of Obsidian any more than Argonians are crafting robes out of Flint; they make them from cloth, metal, hides, or wood... They use Obsidian as ornamentation.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Someone should make a list of every unlorefriendly thing they can think of and ZoS need to remove their references or rename them, that would fix the lore in this game, that and rotating the IC so it's the correct way around, its no surprise a lot of people don't regard ESO as canon.

Yeah, do that.
That way I can start explaining them.

Fine I will write them out.

- The Imperial City is rotated incorrectly.

- References to Raven Rock exist despite raven rock not existing yet, a town which the Nerevarine helped build.

- Cropsford Exists despite it being a settlement that the Champion of Cyrodiil helped build.

- Bleackrock Isle being located Between Vvardenfell and Solstheim, It isn't there in Morrowind or Skyrim.

- The map being very wrong, there is no room for where the City of Blacklight would of been built for instance, and the whole throat of the World is missing (you know Tamriel's tallest mountain) it should be right next to Ivarstead but it is not.) also several zones are off scale, the map depicts Vvardenfell being almost half of the size it was depicted in other games.

- No recognition that the player could potentially be a Vampire in the following quests which creates a major plothole.

1. Lifeline (The player should of been able to use their own blood for the quest).
3. The Thin Ones (The player needs to be undead to interact with the soul gem array, vampires are undead).
3. Through the Shroud (Only the undead can pass through an area so u need to consume a substance, Vampires are undead).
4. Throughout the Rivenspire main questline.

- Black-Briar mead existing despite the fact that the matriarch of the Black-Briar Family and Proprietor of Black-Briar Mead won't be born for nearly 1000 years.

- The Lusty Argonian Maid existing despite the fact you meet the Human author in Morrowind 800 Years later, plus countless other books which have not been written yet like Arkay the Enemy which was written by Mannimarco after he ascended to Godhood.

- Am I to honestly believe that in 800 Years the city of Anvil's layout has barley changed? despite the fact every other town looks so different, here is a fact there is no urban enviroment in the world today that looks the same as it did 100 years ago, let alone 800 years.

- Corprus creatures being in the Dragon Star Arena, no sane person would dare even go near a Corprus infected being let alone drag one half way across Tamriel seeing as CORPRUS IS HIGHLY CONTAIGIOUS AND CAN NOT BE CURED.

And they are just the plotholes I can think of off the top of my head.

ShedsHisTail

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Someone should make a list of every unlorefriendly thing they can think of and ZoS need to remove their references or rename them, that would fix the lore in this game, that and rotating the IC so it's the correct way around, its no surprise a lot of people don't regard ESO as canon.

Yeah, do that.
That way I can start explaining them.

Fine I will write them out.

- The Imperial City is rotated incorrectly.

- References to Raven Rock exist despite raven rock not existing yet, a town which the Nerevarine helped build.

- Cropsford Exists despite it being a settlement that the Champion of Cyrodiil helped build.

- Bleackrock Isle being located Between Vvardenfell and Solstheim, It isn't there in Morrowind or Skyrim.

- The map being very wrong, there is no room for where the City of Blacklight would of been built for instance, and the whole throat of the World is missing (you know Tamriel's tallest mountain) it should be right next to Ivarstead but it is not.) also several zones are off scale, the map depicts Vvardenfell being almost half of the size it was depicted in other games.

- No recognition that the player could potentially be a Vampire in the following quests which creates a major plothole.

1. Lifeline (The player should of been able to use their own blood for the quest).
3. The Thin Ones (The player needs to be undead to interact with the soul gem array, vampires are undead).
3. Through the Shroud (Only the undead can pass through an area so u need to consume a substance, Vampires are undead).
4. Throughout the Rivenspire main questline.

- Black-Briar mead existing despite the fact that the matriarch of the Black-Briar Family and Proprietor of Black-Briar Mead won't be born for nearly 1000 years.

- The Lusty Argonian Maid existing despite the fact you meet the Human author in Morrowind 800 Years later, plus countless other books which have not been written yet like Arkay the Enemy which was written by Mannimarco after he ascended to Godhood.

- Am I to honestly believe that in 800 Years the city of Anvil's layout has barley changed? despite the fact every other town looks so different, here is a fact there is no urban enviroment in the world today that looks the same as it did 100 years ago, let alone 800 years.

- Corprus creatures being in the Dragon Star Arena, no sane person would dare even go near a Corprus infected being let alone drag one half way across Tamriel seeing as CORPRUS IS HIGHLY CONTAIGIOUS AND CAN NOT BE CURED.

And they are just the plotholes I can think of off the top of my head.

Some of those are more difficult than other and will require some thought.
The ones regarding being a vampire... those aren't lore inconsistencies, or anachronism, that's just the writers failing to account for that contingency. So crossing that out.

The Black-Briars I've already explained. Matriarch doesn't mean "first of her line" it simply means high-ranking female. The Black-Briar manor exists, there's no reason to assume that the existing Black-briars aren't brewing and perfecting thier mead recipe. If houses Hlaalu and Dren can survive, I see no reason Black-Briar can't.

Corprus creatures aren't too hard to explain. From memory, the Corprus disease was created by Dagoth-Ur, presumably to help him defeat the Dwemer. The Dwemer had colonies world wide, so not impossible the Blight was inflicted on entities outside of Vvardenfell. Since Corprus also renders it's victims effectively immortal, it's plenty possible these sad creatures were found at the bottom of a Dwemer ruin. Maybe not even that far away. The Corprus actually isn't super contgious, requiring direct contact with a corprus beast, it isn't airborne anywhere except for Red Mountain where it's carried by Blight Storms, so it wouldn't be super difficult to contain. Anyone afflicted could just be chucked into the arena.

Lusty Argonian Maid, as much as I dislike it, I think is already covered in existing canon with the realm of Hermaeus Mora; in fact, most texts are. It's not a great excuse, but it's a canon excuse.

I think I covered Raven Rock as well. Generic name, could easily be more than one Raven Rock. Until we actually go there, there's no reason to assume we're talking about the same place.

Throat of the World is located further west of Eastmarch and Northwest of the Rift. Check your maps again, it's in Whiterun territory and not -that- close to Ivarstead.

Variances in scale on different maps can be chocked up to cartographer error and borders change over hundreds of years.

City of Blacklight is realy intriguing, actually, because depending on what map you're looking at, it's either out on a point in North East Skyrim, or that point is gone entirely and Bleakrock Isle is in it's place. Perhaps there's a story there? Maybe a sea level change? This might sound nutty, but what it the City of Blacklight is located on what we now call Bleakrock Isle and sea-level has dropped since the second era creating a land-bridge connecting it to mainland Morrowind. Might look into that a little closer later.

I'd have to do more research and thinking to tackle some of those others.

ShedsHisTail

Any of you other lore nerds know if the Stonefalls area of Morrowind is subject to sudden sea level changes, or significant seismic activity?

Shunravi

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Any of you other lore nerds know if the Stonefalls area of Morrowind is subject to sudden sea level changes, or significant seismic activity?

other than stonefalls generally being a seismic zone? there is lava all over the place...

baratron

The incorrect rotation of the Imperial City was a mistake. I've definitely heard an interview with ZOS devs where a specific, named individual was blamed for that. Now I have to remember if it was on an ESO Live or somewhere else.

WardenofArcherus

Looks like there is still a gap for Blacklight to me:




Cartography is a tricky thing to do without access to a bird's eye view.

Enodoc

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Some of these things are glaring and obvious. Even a cursory playthrough of Bloodmoonand Dragonborn would tell you Raven Rock does not exist yet. There is no way it can exist yet. Even if it did exist, there is no way you could make ash yams there. That is insane. It's not a nitpick. Solstheim is a frozen wasteland. There is no ash to make ash yams. There wont be any ash until Red Mountain explodes in the fourth era.

Did you say before that this was with regards to a recipe? Maybe recipes are subject to the same lexicological temporal displacement (the one caused by Gandranen Ruins) that pulls other books out of time, like Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls (which was also from the Fourth Era).

At what point do we just accept that Zenimax put a bunch of stuff in the wrong time period?

The Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls thing was clearly done on purpose. I think there's even a note at the end of the book hinting at this. That's fine.

But are we really going to sit here and come up with timey whimey explanations for why a food recipe that shouldn't exist yet is in the game? Is that really what this has come to?

I don't see why not. Ruminations was an "obvious" example, but as starkerealm says, there are many books from the 3rd and 4th Eras that have appeared in ESO, ZOS know that many of those shouldn't have been written yet, and in-game texts are even talking about that fact. ZOS have therefore provided a lore reason for why they have appeared in ESO, which applies without any mention of individual books being necessary (Ruminations and Crassius Curio's version of LAM being exceptions). I don't see why the recipe can't be included under the same reason. Whether ZOS considered that recipe specifically or not is irrelevant, as the stated lore is implicit to all texts.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Corprus creatures being in the Dragon Star Arena, no sane person would dare even go near a Corprus infected being let alone drag one half way across Tamriel seeing as CORPRUS IS HIGHLY CONTAIGIOUS AND CAN NOT BE CURED.

Corprus creatures aren't too hard to explain. From memory, the Corprus disease was created by Dagoth-Ur, presumably to help him defeat the Dwemer.

Corprus is actually one of the things I have the most issue with. Corprus and the Blight were created by Dagoth Ur, indeed, but in theory that was not until after 2E 882, when Dagoth Ur reawoke. Unless of course the Blight was created when Dagoth Ur originally bound himself to the Heart, in 1E 700.

WardenofArcherus wrote: »

Looks like there is still a gap for Blacklight to me:
[insert map here]
Cartography is a tricky thing to do without access to a bird's eye view.

That would be almost fine if it weren't for Skuldafn. Based on that map (which is quite different from the most recent official Bethesda map in that area; below), Blacklight would be exactly where Skuldafn is, as it is at the northernmost tip of the Velothi coastline. That could easily be sorted though by making the area of Skuldafn within Eastmarch considerably smaller. But even that's still not actually correct, as Blacklight should be directly east of Windhelm.

RealLifeRedguard

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I can deal with a few errors here and there, and can handwave quite a bit, but the reason all these errors bother me so much is that, when paired with ESO's strange obsession with sterilizing and toning down the more exotic aspects of Tamriel, it seems as though Zenimax just doesn't care about or understand Tamriel as much as some of the fans. That may not be the case, but when I see stuff like Black Briar mead, Raven Rock Ash Yams, grey ayleid ruins, and a more "grounded" Auridon I can't help but feel that way.

I find it inconceivable that they don't know about these inconsistencies. At least I'm pretty sure Lawrence Schick does, if they don't listen to him, I don't know why.

The de-exotification of TES sadly has been going on for a while now, so much so that Morrowind merely seems like an outlier. ESO actually has quite a bit of the more weird stuff in it, but it's almost entirely limited to text and dialogue. It's not visually represented in the game, although I still think there are some things they have done rather well (like the Aldmeri Dominion crafting style, or Echaterres), and it will be interesting to see how they handle a Vvardenfell DLC should they get around to it.

I guess this is my real problem with the game. Skyrim, for all its flaws, was a step in the right direction back to a stranger Tamriel. It was a small step, but a step forward nontheless. ESO seems to suck out half the color, life, fun, and exoticism out of Nirn, and all these inconsistencies do is make me feel like they really don't care. Sure, there's some exotic, weird stuff out there, but even simple stuff like the dunmer crafting style seem needlessly "toned down". How is obsidian their main crafting material? As I recall they make most of their armors out of bonemold, chitin, draugr-shells and netch-leather. Why tone down all the cool bug-stuff the dunmer are known for?

It just seems needless and insulting, and coupled with all the anachronisms and inconsistencies just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Well therein lies your problem; you're allowing Morrowind to color your Elder Scrolls experience to too great a degree.

You say that it feels as though the world is being "de-exotified" and that's only reinforced by these apparent anachronisms because you see that as just another facet of the apathy you're perceiving on the part of the developers and lore team.

But here's the thing; Morrowind is an outlier. Morrowind was very exotic, absolutely. It's one of my all time favorite games and that unique environment is a huge aspect of it. But, when placed along side the other four Elder Scrolls games in the series, it's the only one that really makes any dramatic effort to break the high fantasy mold. Arena, Daggefall, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all, in essence, pretty generic high-fantasy environments.

And then there's the conanical inconsistencies; that's been a factor forever. That's where the whole "Cyrodiil used to be a jungle" discussion comes from. Every single game revisits and revises the lore of the game before it. There were no Dwemer in Daggerfall, there were Dwarven weapons and armor, but no mention of Dwemer. In fact, prior to Morrowind, there are no mentions of Mer at all, just various elves. Now, you can call this building on existing lore, and I'd agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that the Lore in this universe is fictional and it evolves.

Tamriel, when taken in the context of a whole continent is not especially exotic. It's men, elves, half elves, orcs, cat people and lizard men. One of the only really unique features of those earlier games was he complete absence of dragons. In that sense, contrary to your opinion, Skyrim was a step further into the "de-exotification" of Nirn. Reintroduction of dragons into the story made Tamriel that much more like Middle Earth.

As to Vvardenfell and Dunmer culture, if you recall, the Mournhold expansion for Morrowind took you to mainland Morrowind, and things were very different from Vvarndenfell. Much less netch leather and chitin, and a lot more stone and metalwork, not to mention and almost steampunk vibe. Vvardenfell is a volcanic island with minimal resources; so it makes sense they'd use what they have (chitin, dreugh shells, bone mold, netch leather) available. Hell, their biggest cities are constructed of clay. On the mainland, they've got forests available, a more ready and easily worked resource. Hopefully, when ESO returns us to Vvardenfell, we'll arrive on an island dominated by ashlander tribes with more of that indigenous culture; but for now, the mainland zones we have are actually significantly more exotic than Mournhold was back in Elder Scrolls III.

Personally it's always bugged me that the inhabitants of Vvardenfell are the only peoples in Tamriel who, in -thousands- of years, have figured out how to put a pointy rock on the end of a stick.

Now, you're right, some of these elements that bug you are probably oversight or "mistakes." There's a very big group developing this game, and it's very possible that the recipe team isn't running names past the lore team to confirm chronological conformity. Such things give us three options: We can ignore it completely, we can have fun with it and try to fit it into the timeline, or we can continue to *** on a franchise we love just because lore inconsistencies still exist in the same way they have since game number two.

Personally, I like the lore inconsistencies. I love thinking of Tamriel as a dynamic world where I -don't- know everything. A world where the books I read in game might be giving me bad information because the author was biased, or drunk, or the story is simply mythology used to cover up actual events. It gives me something to explore on my own, thought experiments and theories. That's a level of authenticity, however inadvertent, that you don't get in other game worlds.

I chose to accept it as such.

That's just the thing...Morrowind was not SUPPOSED to be an outlier.

Back when the PGE1 first came out, before it was all retconned as "propaganda", the entire Elder Scrolls world (ESPECIALLY elven lands) were just as bizarre and alien as Morrowind.

For many of us, this version of Tamriel is the one we fall in love with. It was a universe we had never seen before, so unique and full of strangeness. We loved it because it WASN'T generic medieval european fantasy. In numerous interviews, Bethesda has claimed that they made Redguard and Morrowind in an attempt to break free from the D&D inspired stuff of the first two games. They were trying to go in a different direction, one that would make the world of Tamriel truly unique and interesting.

Then Oblivion happened. My first Elder Scrolls game by the way and still one of my favorites, but it toned the world down quite a bit. Even still, this is when the PGE3 was released, which was still filled with all sorts of interesting descriptions, strange lands, and crazy interesting stuff I couldn't wait to see.

Then Skyrim came out and it was a small step in the right direction, a step back toward the weirdness that made me fall in love with Tamriel to begin with. Mammoths, whalebone bridges, giants, and steampunk ruins. I love that ***, man.

Then ESO comes out and seems desperate to take the series back to where it was during Arena and Daggerfall, back when the world was just generic medieval fantasy. Sure, they let us keep some of the exotic stuff, when they can't avoid including it, but whenever given the choice, they always go with safe and mundane.

What is Tamriel without the weirdness? Without the bizarre philosophy and crazy, magical landscapes?

As i've said numerous times, the world of Nirn has gone through countless revamps, reboots and re-imaginings since the world was first solidified in 1998 with the release of The Pocket Guide to the Empire. I feel like Zenimax, when given the choice, almost always chooses the more "mundane, toned down, and normal" interpretation. I like flying whales and sunbirds and jungles and insects and cities made of coral. That's the stuff that makes Tamriel unique. Zenimax seems determined to make Tamriel fit their generic medieval fantasy mindset. I can get that in any fantasy world. What distinguishes the Elder Scrolls from any other fantasy world without its unique and strange lore?

And there's a difference between unreliable narrators / lore inconsistencies, and the dozens of bizarre anachronisms and inconsistencies we see in the game. It's just distracting when every few steps you see something that shouldn't exist yet, or a reference to a place that shouldn't exist yet, or a food item that can't be grown in a certain place because that place wont have the proper climate for a thousand years. It's little stuff, but it adds to the general feeling of sloppiness.

RealLifeRedguard

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Someone should make a list of every unlorefriendly thing they can think of and ZoS need to remove their references or rename them, that would fix the lore in this game, that and rotating the IC so it's the correct way around, its no surprise a lot of people don't regard ESO as canon.

Yeah, do that.
That way I can start explaining them.

Fine I will write them out.

- The Imperial City is rotated incorrectly.

- References to Raven Rock exist despite raven rock not existing yet, a town which the Nerevarine helped build.

- Cropsford Exists despite it being a settlement that the Champion of Cyrodiil helped build.

- Bleackrock Isle being located Between Vvardenfell and Solstheim, It isn't there in Morrowind or Skyrim.

- The map being very wrong, there is no room for where the City of Blacklight would of been built for instance, and the whole throat of the World is missing (you know Tamriel's tallest mountain) it should be right next to Ivarstead but it is not.) also several zones are off scale, the map depicts Vvardenfell being almost half of the size it was depicted in other games.

- No recognition that the player could potentially be a Vampire in the following quests which creates a major plothole.

1. Lifeline (The player should of been able to use their own blood for the quest).
3. The Thin Ones (The player needs to be undead to interact with the soul gem array, vampires are undead).
3. Through the Shroud (Only the undead can pass through an area so u need to consume a substance, Vampires are undead).
4. Throughout the Rivenspire main questline.

- Black-Briar mead existing despite the fact that the matriarch of the Black-Briar Family and Proprietor of Black-Briar Mead won't be born for nearly 1000 years.

- The Lusty Argonian Maid existing despite the fact you meet the Human author in Morrowind 800 Years later, plus countless other books which have not been written yet like Arkay the Enemy which was written by Mannimarco after he ascended to Godhood.

- Am I to honestly believe that in 800 Years the city of Anvil's layout has barley changed? despite the fact every other town looks so different, here is a fact there is no urban enviroment in the world today that looks the same as it did 100 years ago, let alone 800 years.

- Corprus creatures being in the Dragon Star Arena, no sane person would dare even go near a Corprus infected being let alone drag one half way across Tamriel seeing as CORPRUS IS HIGHLY CONTAIGIOUS AND CAN NOT BE CURED.

And they are just the plotholes I can think of off the top of my head.

Some of those are more difficult than other and will require some thought.
The ones regarding being a vampire... those aren't lore inconsistencies, or anachronism, that's just the writers failing to account for that contingency. So crossing that out.

The Black-Briars I've already explained. Matriarch doesn't mean "first of her line" it simply means high-ranking female. The Black-Briar manor exists, there's no reason to assume that the existing Black-briars aren't brewing and perfecting thier mead recipe. If houses Hlaalu and Dren can survive, I see no reason Black-Briar can't.

Corprus creatures aren't too hard to explain. From memory, the Corprus disease was created by Dagoth-Ur, presumably to help him defeat the Dwemer. The Dwemer had colonies world wide, so not impossible the Blight was inflicted on entities outside of Vvardenfell. Since Corprus also renders it's victims effectively immortal, it's plenty possible these sad creatures were found at the bottom of a Dwemer ruin. Maybe not even that far away. The Corprus actually isn't super contgious, requiring direct contact with a corprus beast, it isn't airborne anywhere except for Red Mountain where it's carried by Blight Storms, so it wouldn't be super difficult to contain. Anyone afflicted could just be chucked into the arena.

Lusty Argonian Maid, as much as I dislike it, I think is already covered in existing canon with the realm of Hermaeus Mora; in fact, most texts are. It's not a great excuse, but it's a canon excuse.

I think I covered Raven Rock as well. Generic name, could easily be more than one Raven Rock. Until we actually go there, there's no reason to assume we're talking about the same place.

Throat of the World is located further west of Eastmarch and Northwest of the Rift. Check your maps again, it's in Whiterun territory and not -that- close to Ivarstead.

Variances in scale on different maps can be chocked up to cartographer error and borders change over hundreds of years.

City of Blacklight is realy intriguing, actually, because depending on what map you're looking at, it's either out on a point in North East Skyrim, or that point is gone entirely and Bleakrock Isle is in it's place. Perhaps there's a story there? Maybe a sea level change? This might sound nutty, but what it the City of Blacklight is located on what we now call Bleakrock Isle and sea-level has dropped since the second era creating a land-bridge connecting it to mainland Morrowind. Might look into that a little closer later.

I'd have to do more research and thinking to tackle some of those others.

Also, that's not why Corprus existed at all, so this argument doesn't make much sense.

Dagoth-Ur was obsessed with the dwemer and his house tried to emulate them in numerous ways. Corprus isn't really a conventional "disease" so much as it's a god trying to speak to you and your mortal body not being able to handle it. It's still highly contagious and it's insane for anyone to take corprus creatures and ship them somewhere else.

those aren't lore inconsistencies, or anachronism, that's just the writers failing to account for that contingency. So crossing that out.

Isn't that even worse? The point here is that the writers, while talented in general, are sloppy when it comes to respecting the world of Tamriel.