Radiant Destruction

Minno · May 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

"I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis."

Just to get this right , your complaining that because of RD you K/D is not as you said 300-10?

So you are that good that OP that nothing can kill you and one thing that apparently can kill you, you want it to be nerferd if that's the case .. " slow clap" for you

Aaaa yes so you are playing StamDK for a stam DK that is able to kill 200-300 people within 3-4h and only die 10 times shouldn't everybody saying that your skills ect are OP and calling it to be nerferd ?

That has to be one of the strongest arguments against a nerf to RD if ever I saw one lol!

Nope, just keep it simple:

1) RD has skill/CP counters
2) most players too lazy to redo gear/builds/use new skills
3) most deaths occur due to zerg issue, not RD issue.

frozywozy · May 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

"I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis."

Just to get this right , your complaining that because of RD you K/D is not as you said 300-10?

So you are that good that OP that nothing can kill you and one thing that apparently can kill you, you want it to be nerferd if that's the case .. " slow clap" for you

Aaaa yes so you are playing StamDK for a stam DK that is able to kill 200-300 people within 3-4h and only die 10 times shouldn't everybody saying that your skills ect are OP and calling it to be nerferd ?

That has to be one of the strongest arguments against a nerf to RD if ever I saw one lol!

The reason why my Kill ratio is that high is because I have good situation awareness and don't engage in a fight where I might get outnumbered with no possibility to run away. It has nothing to do with how my class overperform when I just throw myself at multiple enemies at once. It is all about speccing correctly to tank alot of damage, have very high sustain and mobility and be aware of your surrounding. The downside : I run with moderate weapon dmg (3.1k fully buffed) unlike most people who run with 3.5k to 5.3k and who can do those one shot moves.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

Yea but like a good player the objective is to kite those players to a space you can engage at your advantage. Those templars are killing you because you are zerg diving without having a build dedicated to doing that, especially as a paper-armor melee attacker.

If 10 templars are spamming dark flare, do you engage still? But because you are a DK with the best reflect in the game, you have the skill slotted to deal with many ranged attacks. The same argument applies in that should dark flare be nerfed if you ate all those spells because you refused to slot your DK wings?

Learn the counters, adapt, and worst case scenario = pick a new build/bar setup.

Or Defensive posture. Or Block. Or Cleanse (for the debuff). Or interrupt the long animation. Dark Flare has more than one counter or partial-counter as well.

Minno · May 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

Yea but like a good player the objective is to kite those players to a space you can engage at your advantage. Those templars are killing you because you are zerg diving without having a build dedicated to doing that, especially as a paper-armor melee attacker.

If 10 templars are spamming dark flare, do you engage still? But because you are a DK with the best reflect in the game, you have the skill slotted to deal with many ranged attacks. The same argument applies in that should dark flare be nerfed if you ate all those spells because you refused to slot your DK wings?

Learn the counters, adapt, and worst case scenario = pick a new build/bar setup.

Or Defensive posture. Or Block. Or Cleanse (for the debuff). Or interrupt the long animation. Dark Flare has more than one counter or partial-counter as well.

Yup! The classic counters to channel spells.

Inarre · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

frozywozy wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

The thing everyone seems to have forgotten is if a templar is jesus beaming you from twenty eight meters away its quite simple as a stam character to run.... One meter... In the opposite direction >.>

Do your rally vigor, pot whatever then come back.

When I say that the templar can beam from 41meters away, it doesn't indicate that I fight 41meters away from him. What it means is that he has the possibility to attack someone from 41meters away and with the latency, sometimes the beam will even go further. But I think we both knew what I was reffering to but you were just arguing for the sake of arguing.

The point I am making is that by the time I charge someone in the frontline, first of all, I barely have any time to apply pressure and I must already consider defending myself if the first attack missed. Then by charging in, I am already too close to those pve magplars to even consider running away. All it takes usually is one CC when I'm between 70% and 50% hps and I'm done.

I'll try to think about using vigor, rally and pots. Thanks for the advice. I just realized I don't have Rally on my bar, my Vigor isn't morphed and I'm still using v1 pots.

I don't see how a valid point about how to interrupt a skill is arguing for the sake of arguing.

You described a situation in which a templar was standing 41m away from you, the defender, and jesus beaming you behind a pack of his team mates. Whether at max range or almost max range, running away is a very valid strategy to break the channel of rd.

If you are describing a situation where you are focused so badly by a whole pack of enemies that you are unable to run away - that isnt an issue with jesus beam. Thats an issue with being outnumbered.

That response makes it look like youre trying to cover for the fact that you dont have a response.

frozywozy · May 2016

Inarre wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

frozywozy wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

The thing everyone seems to have forgotten is if a templar is jesus beaming you from twenty eight meters away its quite simple as a stam character to run.... One meter... In the opposite direction >.>

Do your rally vigor, pot whatever then come back.

When I say that the templar can beam from 41meters away, it doesn't indicate that I fight 41meters away from him. What it means is that he has the possibility to attack someone from 41meters away and with the latency, sometimes the beam will even go further. But I think we both knew what I was reffering to but you were just arguing for the sake of arguing.

The point I am making is that by the time I charge someone in the frontline, first of all, I barely have any time to apply pressure and I must already consider defending myself if the first attack missed. Then by charging in, I am already too close to those pve magplars to even consider running away. All it takes usually is one CC when I'm between 70% and 50% hps and I'm done.

I'll try to think about using vigor, rally and pots. Thanks for the advice. I just realized I don't have Rally on my bar, my Vigor isn't morphed and I'm still using v1 pots.

I don't see how a valid point about how to interrupt a skill is arguing for the sake of arguing.

You described a situation in which a templar was standing 41m away from you, the defender, and jesus beaming you behind a pack of his team mates. Whether at max range or almost max range, running away is a very valid strategy to break the channel of rd.

If you are describing a situation where you are focused so badly by a whole pack of enemies that you are unable to run away - that isnt an issue with jesus beam. Thats an issue with being outnumbered.

That response makes it look like youre trying to cover for the fact that you dont have a response.

I described pretty clearly the difference between melee combat and range combat in different words. You refuse to accept the reality so I'm pretty much done trying to make you understand. Have a good one!

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

The main thing I can get behind in your argument particularly has to do with the issue of blocking and 0 regeneration. This change was really stupid. No other nerf in the game was more punitive than this one and you are right in stating that it has made blocking a much less useful action than it perhaps should be. In my view this is the more apt observation though, and I personally think that being forced down a dangerous path (choosing between dodge roll or block in a fight) is not a bad thing. When two people are attacking you at once synergistically it should be more difficult for you to deal with them. I believe that is a more realistic scenario. One player making openings to soften you up so another player can hit you harder, that is actually a good system for the game. The way in which phalanxes and formations were used in ancient warfare come to mind here particularly, where one soldier would cross an attack over to the opponent directly in front of either man at his shoulder. They were trained to make these kinds of openings. The same idea exists here at least in some respect.

I'd like to add that I've been playing predominately stamina so I understand your feelings on the issue of stamina being your primary pool as well as your main form of defense (although presumably magicka is an important part of your utility). The other concern I have with the nerf RD bandwagon is that the Templar class itself has had so many broken non functioning or subpar skills for such a long time. I think that time is changing, and as you say you're a Stam Sorc I understand where your point of view is coming from particularly. The Sorcerer class is now in many ways starting to feel pinched like the Templar class has been for quite some time, and I would say the Nightblade class was in the earlier phases of the game. Lets be clear right now I think if I understand everything going forward with DB comes to pass, Sorcerer is going to need some reworking, and it may very well be on a major and fundamental level at this point. The way that class is designed if they fix one thing, the way the passives and other skills function they could turn the class into something ridiculously overpowered. If they leave it alone it will remain as flaccid and frankly less interesting as it has become. They're going to need to deal with some of the less interesting skills in the class (in many ways like I still hope they do with many of the Templar skills that don't deliver at all on their original intentions). Nightblade I think delivers on its promise and theme. Dragon Knight is really getting there. Sorcerer at this state of the game though has some issues to solve. I've given some of my own ideas on the matter but at this point I've been at a loss because I can't really divine what their intent or trajectory is with the class. I know it has something to do with pets and lightning and hurricanes. I'm not sure about the rest of it. Templar is about being a healing juggernaut, standing your ground in the front porch of your house - that's the theme they're going with.

At any regard I am empathetic to your situation more than many others, (particularly Stamplars complaining when they have cleansing ritual inherent to the class, and fairly early on I might add) because the Sorcerer class probably took the nerf to blocking worse than any other class. I'm not happy about what it did to my Nord Sorcerer tank concept, that is for sure, and it certainly made me stop the notion of making a bosmer dragon knight tank (although DB is having me reconsider that notion as a stam dps). Your point about penetration and impenetrable is also another source of irritation for me. It is easier to get penetration than it is to resist it. I really wish Heavy Armor had built in penetration resistance, and I would have much preferred something along this line than any kind of DPS traits.

I have more thoughts on the issues you bring up, I'm just uncomfortable with the nerfing of RD for the reasons people give - and I might add despite having messed with the skill a fair bit on some blackwater characters, its not really a skill I use myself. I've come to realize that some people are getting a smoother experience with skills like Toppling charge than others, so experiences apparently vary, but I can tell you that for me this skill has almost never properly worked. It is literally a liability, and every time I put it on the bar I find myself within 5-10 minutes taking it off because it got me killed in one way or another. The Templar class is like this. Almost every skill is slow and plodding. Many skills really just represent 'filler' because it seems like they didn't know what to do when they got rid of soft caps. They seem to just now be dealing with some of those core issues. In terms of the way the RD skill looks I have to say I love it. Its a beautiful skill like dragon leap. There's just something epic about it, and I think its meant to be one of those wowing skills even though I greatly miss the Blinding Flashes skill it replaces. Meanwhile Toppling charge is a liability as I've stated, Eclipse doesn't deliver on the promise of what it is supposed to be and was, Backlash is a joke, Jabs is easily dodgeable and better damage output can generally be had elsewhere (from a pvp perspective), the class cc is terrible albeit being mitigated significantly by changes in the healing tree. The class itself is bright and shiny so everyone on the battlefield knows EXACTLY what you are doing, and every move is slow, slows the user down and telegraphs what it will do: Think about RD, Dark Flare, Jabs, Blazing Spear, etc. The Passives - don't get me started on all the vacant passives where they modify things that don't even help (See Light Weaver, Restoring Aura, and Healing Ritual and Right of Passage for instance). In this respect the Stamplar and the Stam Sorc share a lot of problems, although right now things are favoring the Stamina Templar and I concede that. I could go down a list of some of the same kinds of reasons I just gave about problems with the Templar class on the Sorcerer class, but much has been said on the topic elsewhere. My point really is that without RD functioning the way it does, you'd really need to change a lot of other things on the Templar, namely its sluggish and clumsy maneuvering. Otherwise why even bother with an execute? In fact this has been a problem with Templar for a long time, the issue of looking at a skill and thinking 'why bother'?

Why bother slotting Toppling charge when I can crit rush? Why bother using Eclipse and wasting my mana and time when I can hit defensive posture? Why bother using Backlash when I can just hit the target really hard to begin with using combinations? I know these questions go through Sorcerers minds as well on a lot of their builds. I'm looking at my own wondering how I want to play that character.

I'm really getting longwinded here but the point is this - I like that team-counters exist in the game. I don't think the issue is with this, I think the issue is with the way defense works in this game at this time. I can offer suggestions but it really won't matter much. This game has too much become about this dps or that dps. I'd like to see defense choices being more meaningful in the game as well. It really rubs me wrong that the reason many people want to nerf RD is because they dislike what Block does to Stamina Regeneration. I can understand a reduction in regeneration based on a FLAT COST, but I really can't stomach this 0% regeneration nonsense. It has made Dodging the only defense mechanic for many in pvp, because it is so obviously more advantageous. That is in my view the big flaw in the system, at least in part. The class balance issues - I honestly don't even know how to tackle those anymore. We just need to watch wait and see and give the Devs our feedback as they roll out new ideas (Poison DK, Hurricane Sorcs, etc.) I like some of the new ideas, even though they at time kill old character concepts wholesale. The Hurricane Sorcerer for instance is actually a pretty cool concept, and from a thematic point of view would be awesome for a Redgard Stamina Sorcerer. I have no doubt that some players are going to be put off by it though, having been drawn to the class specifically because of the Lightning fx. Not everyone is going to be happy, but as long as they can put out something that resembles balance and is entertaining, in time, I'll be happy. Class skills should be worth putting on your bar. My biggest concern about Sorc and Temp for a while has been that I feel very ***-hum about a lot of the skills I have to put on my bar (even if I like the artistic style). My concern is that RD will become yet another worthless skill in the lineup, and there's already a lot of bad ones. I like the way I feel when working on my nightblade builds, which is torn between so many good powers and not sure which tool I want to use. I want that feeling for all classes (stam and magicka)

Xsorus · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

Joy_Division · May 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

I think your tone is a bit too condescending to be taken seriously, but ill try:

I described a 2-3 second window, reading comprehension is win; 2-3 gcd`s which HAVE to be used for break free (1, good luck doing that in one gcd), dodge roll to avoid nb heavy burst (2) and hots (3 & 4). After roll dodge is complete I WILL eat 1-2 ticks RD which are not counterable with purely defensive maneuvers since dodge roll into block will have a 1-2 gcd delay.

I should go aggression mode now to have a chance 1v2 in this meta.

Even if I don`t die during the timing window of death (which isnt really a window if u channel something on the target, that doesnt break on dodge), I can only go for block on low health, channel on me, and delay the inevitable.

All other`s classes & setup`s executes can be countered through another roll dodge or a single timed block. A channel that is just waiting for the target to drop requires me to waste around 6k stam per second, forces me into defensive mode where I want to go aggro and I have to say byebye to regen. I will inevitably lose that fight whereas I have a chance against anything else.

All that in 2-3 seconds.

That`s my complaint.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

I would add that a snipe is more visually deceptive than a gigantic golden laser beam 2 feet wide and 30 feet long. There have been times I never saw the snipe (or heard it thanks to fog of war) but I sure as hell felt it and had to adapt based on my health bar. When I miss the visuals for a RD there are bigger latency problems going on, and I'm usually close to seeing a load screen.

Joy_Division · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

I think your tone is a bit too condescending to be taken seriously, but ill try:

I described a 2-3 second window, reading comprehension is win; 2-3 gcd`s which HAVE to be used for break free (1, good luck doing that in one gcd), dodge roll to avoid nb heavy burst (2) and hots (3 & 4). After roll dodge is complete I WILL eat 1-2 ticks RD which are not counterable with purely defensive maneuvers since dodge roll into block will have a 1-2 gcd delay.

I should go aggression mode now to have a chance 1v2 in this meta.

Even if I don`t die during the timing window of death (which isnt really a window if u channel something on the target, that doesnt break on dodge), I can only go for block on low health, channel on me, and delay the inevitable.

All other`s classes & setup`s executes can be countered through another roll dodge or a single timed block. A channel that is just waiting for the target to drop requires me to waste around 6k stam per second, forces me into defensive mode where I want to go aggro and I have to say byebye to regen. I will inevitably lose that fight whereas I have a chance against anything else.

All that in 2-3 seconds.

That`s my complaint.

You say I am condescending when you constantly use CAPS (as if those who disagree with you need to somehow be pointed to an obvious truth) and snidely remark that you never come across a single templar in the open world? Pot meet Kettle.

So, how exactly is your roll dodging countering the sorc's curse, inevitable det, and streak combo? Or the dawnbreaker that coming if you are still somehow alive afterward?

Getting jumped by a burst NB while fighting someone else is bad news no matter what class that someone is. Just because it is a templar, doesn't mean it is a death sentence. In the scenario you depicted, I would rather the open world opponent be a templar spamming RD because it is weak against how I would defend myself (either cleanse or burst heal). If the other opponent was a crit cursh spamming DK, I would be in a lot more trouble because I already used a lot of my limited stam breaking free from the NB's gank and dodging her follow-up. You are describing an inconvenient battle situation for your particular and specific build. It's not universally applicable.

You are making the same complaints and arguments that have been repeated ad nauseam since RD had been implemented into the game. It boils down to a desire for a particular build to always be able to conveniently and efficiently defend against all forms of attack. They want to have complete immunity to every single target ability in the game at the press of a button. It is somehow unacceptable or bad balance that some forms of attack are more effective against their builds even though they are weaker against other types of builds. People claim to think Rock-Paper-Scissors is a good idea, but they seem to be much more accepting of Rock-Scissors.

frozywozy · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

I think your tone is a bit too condescending to be taken seriously, but ill try:

I described a 2-3 second window, reading comprehension is win; 2-3 gcd`s which HAVE to be used for break free (1, good luck doing that in one gcd), dodge roll to avoid nb heavy burst (2) and hots (3 & 4). After roll dodge is complete I WILL eat 1-2 ticks RD which are not counterable with purely defensive maneuvers since dodge roll into block will have a 1-2 gcd delay.

I should go aggression mode now to have a chance 1v2 in this meta.

Even if I don`t die during the timing window of death (which isnt really a window if u channel something on the target, that doesnt break on dodge), I can only go for block on low health, channel on me, and delay the inevitable.

All other`s classes & setup`s executes can be countered through another roll dodge or a single timed block. A channel that is just waiting for the target to drop requires me to waste around 6k stam per second, forces me into defensive mode where I want to go aggro and I have to say byebye to regen. I will inevitably lose that fight whereas I have a chance against anything else.

All that in 2-3 seconds.

That`s my complaint.

You say I am condescending when you constantly use CAPS (as if those who disagree with you need to somehow be pointed to an obvious truth) and snidely remark that you never come across a single templar in the open world? Pot meet Kettle.

So, how exactly is your roll dodging countering the sorc's curse, inevitable det, and streak combo? Or the dawnbreaker that coming if you are still somehow alive afterward?

Getting jumped by a burst NB while fighting someone else is bad news no matter what class that someone is. Just because it is a templar, doesn't mean it is a death sentence. In the scenario you depicted, I would rather the open world opponent be a templar spamming RD because it is weak against how I would defend myself (either cleanse or burst heal). If the other opponent was a crit cursh spamming DK, I would be in a lot more trouble because I already used a lot of my limited stam breaking free from the NB's gank and dodging her follow-up. You are describing an inconvenient battle situation for your particular and specific build. It's not universally applicable.

You are making the same complaints and arguments that have been repeated ad nauseam since RD had been implemented into the game. It boils down to a desire for a particular build to always be able to conveniently and efficiently defend against all forms of attack. They want to have complete immunity to every single target ability in the game at the press of a button. It is somehow unacceptable or bad balance that some forms of attack are more effective against their builds even though they are weaker against other types of builds. People claim to think Rock-Paper-Scissors is a good idea, but they seem to be much more accepting of Rock-Scissors.

And here come Joy again with the argument that on his magplar, he can perfectly counter RD. Wake up. The guy is a stam class who doesn't have shields and who can't afford the magicka on a 4.2k or soon (when DC hits) 5k purge. A stam class is NOT invincible to all attacks. Lightning heavy attacks are probably one of the best counter to dodge rollers combine with a fear bomb, streak, curse, dawnbreaker, meteor, fossilize, shards or gap closers. There are a ton of big counters. You, in your templar world, refuse to admit it but the guy is right. RD is the only counter in all the ones I just mentioned that gets you killed every single time without a chance to survive if you get opened by a bursty class which drop you near between 70% and 50% hps left. Why? because if you block, your stamina drains way too quickly since obviously, most people don't run one hand shield tank builds in open world. And because if you try to dodge roll away, he will kill you before you have the time to. And this is coming from a guy who runs 7pc medium impen and major expedition.

Joy_Division · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

As long as I could cleanse it, purge it, heal or shield through the channel, the attacker was rendered immobile and was subject to interruption, then I would be totally fine with your proposed Lethal Arrow. In fact, there are a good number of times that I'd prefer to defend against that Lethal Arrow than the one currently in the game right now.

I am not convinced by the person you are quoted because (s)he claims not to be able to recover from a templar RD attack "in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker," when a sorcerer, NB, or stam DK attacker would also be able to finish off the snared & stunned & bursted roll-dodger. In fact, I would rather be on my sorcerer than my templar in such a situation.

I think your tone is a bit too condescending to be taken seriously, but ill try:

I described a 2-3 second window, reading comprehension is win; 2-3 gcd`s which HAVE to be used for break free (1, good luck doing that in one gcd), dodge roll to avoid nb heavy burst (2) and hots (3 & 4). After roll dodge is complete I WILL eat 1-2 ticks RD which are not counterable with purely defensive maneuvers since dodge roll into block will have a 1-2 gcd delay.

I should go aggression mode now to have a chance 1v2 in this meta.

Even if I don`t die during the timing window of death (which isnt really a window if u channel something on the target, that doesnt break on dodge), I can only go for block on low health, channel on me, and delay the inevitable.

All other`s classes & setup`s executes can be countered through another roll dodge or a single timed block. A channel that is just waiting for the target to drop requires me to waste around 6k stam per second, forces me into defensive mode where I want to go aggro and I have to say byebye to regen. I will inevitably lose that fight whereas I have a chance against anything else.

All that in 2-3 seconds.

That`s my complaint.

You say I am condescending when you constantly use CAPS (as if those who disagree with you need to somehow be pointed to an obvious truth) and snidely remark that you never come across a single templar in the open world? Pot meet Kettle.

So, how exactly is your roll dodging countering the sorc's curse, inevitable det, and streak combo? Or the dawnbreaker that coming if you are still somehow alive afterward?

Getting jumped by a burst NB while fighting someone else is bad news no matter what class that someone is. Just because it is a templar, doesn't mean it is a death sentence. In the scenario you depicted, I would rather the open world opponent be a templar spamming RD because it is weak against how I would defend myself (either cleanse or burst heal). If the other opponent was a crit cursh spamming DK, I would be in a lot more trouble because I already used a lot of my limited stam breaking free from the NB's gank and dodging her follow-up. You are describing an inconvenient battle situation for your particular and specific build. It's not universally applicable.

You are making the same complaints and arguments that have been repeated ad nauseam since RD had been implemented into the game. It boils down to a desire for a particular build to always be able to conveniently and efficiently defend against all forms of attack. They want to have complete immunity to every single target ability in the game at the press of a button. It is somehow unacceptable or bad balance that some forms of attack are more effective against their builds even though they are weaker against other types of builds. People claim to think Rock-Paper-Scissors is a good idea, but they seem to be much more accepting of Rock-Scissors.

And here come Joy again with the argument that on his magplar, he can perfectly counter RD. Wake up. The guy is a stam class who doesn't have shields and who can't afford the magicka on a 4.2k or soon (when DC hits) 5k purge. A stam class is NOT invincible to all attacks. Lightning heavy attacks are probably one of the best counter to dodge rollers combine with a fear bomb, streak, curse, dawnbreaker, fossilize, shards or gap closers. There are a ton of big counters. You, in your templar world, refuse to admit it but the guy is right. RD is the only counter in all the ones I just mentioned that gets you killed every single time without a chance to survive if you get opened by a bursty class which drop you near between 70% and 50% hps left. Why? because if you block, your stamina drains way too quickly since obviously, most people don't run one hand shield tank builds in open world. And because if you try to dodge roll away, he will kill you before you have the time to. And this is coming from a guy who runs 7pc medium and major expedition.

Maybe if you weren't so concerned about running away and leaving your groupmates in the lurch at the slightest possibility of death, you would have better luck against RD spammers

Elong · May 2016

It's not changing kids, get used to it.

KisoValley · May 2016

Magplar zergers = RD is working as intended when 5-10 Magplars spam it from behind a group/zerg while it scales off 2 different mechanics.

Non Magplar zergers = RD broken because it scales off 2 mechanics unlike any other ability (don't think there is any other? None as broken as RD at least).

I wonder who is correct, the Magplar zergers or non Magplar zergers.

I guarentee if Zeni added RD scaling off opponents Max Health too, the Magplars on this thread would argue it's still balanced while it scales off 3 different mechanics lol. Nerfing the range would help a little but not much, although I still think the range is absolutely ridiculous for what RD does.

Nogawd · May 2016

Oh what ever, if we adjusted the range or nerfed the strength, people would still complain about something.

It's a female dog-fest in these forums. So much whine.

Master_Kas · May 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m a solo stamina player and make a last attempt in describing my issues with RD to you, the mighty templar defense force:

Let me start with: I`m not invincible. I don`t run any kill counter, but let me just say... I die often in this game, where noone seems to run solo anymore besides me and ZOS favored NBs. Dodgeroll nerf + Block zero regen combined means all my defensive maneuvers have to be timed, since they share the same ressource pool as my offensive maneuvers and my ability to run away.

All players by now should know:

1. You cannot block in ESO PvP except you have a dedicated build for that (which by then would be useless for solo play anyways)
=> Any solo stam player out there HAS to use dodge as a priotity def maneuver (which already has a hefty penalty for repeated use) and just block in emergency cases.

2. Theres a gcd inbetween dodge and the ability to block, means you cannot dodge roll into block without unprotected downtime (I like that actually in a world without RD, it opens up a skillful timing window for opponent`s burst and requires me to prepare for those situatons).

3. The internal block cd is 0.5 sec (means ressources will be charged every 0.5 secs)

Now, just keeping the three above mentioned points in mind, let me explain, why RD is not counterable for me in real pvp scenarios. Imagine a scenario were I see & engage a single magicka templar in open world (super-realistic, i know):

We go at each other, back & forth, then suddenly another opposing play jumps in with a high impact & cc damage ability on me. Let`s say a NB, no problem, happens every day, I break free & dodge roll the follow up dmg to not die to the insane NB burst, refresh both hots....

...and would be rdy to fight back despite taking a medium amount of about 10kish instant damage in the process of being jumped by the NB. Still not a won fight by any means, but a really nice fight that could have just begun.

With RD on the other hand, I am usually already dead before the hots are cycled. All the templar has to do is to press RD somewhere in the process of the NB doing dmg to me and I will explode, since a single lucky NB crit combo will bring me below 50% despite having 2500 impen and despite dodging the follop uw damage.

The GCD between dodge roll & block will sneak in 1, sometimes 2 ticks (lag) of RD execute range damage which is usually between 7k-15k damage. Those ticks are guaranteed, no skill needed, just press the button.

There is no counter to those ticks. Those actions in the above described scenario happen on a daily basis in 2-3 seconds, in which I am snared & stunned & bursted by the second attacker - which would be okay, with skill I can recover even from that, but RD is a total shutdown. Add lag to the scenarios and with some empathy you might feel the frustration I`m experiencing.

Even if I still live and block after 10k (NB) + 7-15k (RD), just blocking RD for 3 secs will cost me 6x 2-3k stam (0,5 sec block charge). You cannot sustain blocking RD, you will die very soon by being stam starved.

I´m not a whiner, if you care, read some of my posts in the stam sorc section begging zos to not make my own class too easy & good. I am interested in challenging, fun & balanced pvp.

RD has no place in the bursty, zergy, buggy & lag ridden pvp environment we have atm. It´s unmitigated ticks are too easy to apply, too high output wise with too much of a range.

I hope some of you are not yet blinded by your own lasershow and can at least agree that there is issues with RD in real world.

Best regards.

You're trying to convince people of this; allow me to help.

Imagine is Lethal Arrow was an Execute at 50% of your life instead of a heal debuff; and you could no longer dodge it.

It would be balanced m8

Learn 2 counter.

covenant_merchant · May 2016

I'll just leave that there..
(Keep in mind that that glorious legate was impersonating Jesus in a zerg, which makes it impossible to bash

)

Xexpo · May 2016

It's safe to say that if you don't know at least one counter that works for your build at this point, you might be hopeless.

yamadas · May 2016

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

frozywozy · May 2016

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

One simple solution : Level up a templar and beam the hell out of people defending it.

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

One simple solution : Level up a templar and beam the hell out of people defending it.

Come over to NA TF, ill show you guys how to counter it. lol

Van_0S · May 2016

Maybe some of you are confused of Soul assault with RD.
Soul assault can 1shot a player with full health.
RD, you have to be below 50% in health but doesn't 1 shot the player, only when he is 25% less.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6j3LtDKUwBROlwzxUyN91TLl_HgDK0lN4AT9GKgE5IYBI7pRPFLRcMUz_

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6j3LtDKUwBROlwzxUyN91TLl_HgDK0lN4AT9GKgE5IYBI7pRPFLRcMUz_

Zheg · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

One simple solution : Level up a templar and beam the hell out of people defending it.

I'm glad you're leveling a templar. I can laugh over your dead body when you try doing all of the things you think you can do with jesus beam.

Skyy · May 2016

kasa-obake wrote: »

I'll just leave that there..
(Keep in mind that that glorious legate was impersonating Jesus in a zerg, which makes it impossible to bash )

That looks like less damage you would get from your typical wrecking blow spam, or snipe spam, or someone hardcasting shards even.

Xexpo · May 2016

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

More tears please

frozywozy wrote: »

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

One simple solution : Level up a templar and beam the hell out of people defending it.

Please do.

DHale · May 2016

I just want to say I dusted off my Templar due to my sorc being no more fun to play. Applying and constantly replying shields is not my idea of fun. That said, I did not run rd and did fine then so one guy rage whispered me about spamming rd which I did not. I contacted the pug and he actually reached out to the guy who whispered me he apologized while he gave me a lecture about no skill Templars. So I thought boy you have a lot to learn as he and his four friends mowed me down. I slotted rd and killed him 8 times on Saturday and restarted kill counter 61 kills Saturday and 73 kills today. Truth be told rd is kinda weak sauce but it makes ppl super salty and it makes my 100 in elemental defender and 40 spell resistance and 7 inpen tickle. Be careful about about being salty as someone just poked the the rd bear. Course anyone could counter rd at any time then you could laugh while multiple ppl j beam you while you check you master merchant. Just don't get out the wrecking blow that actually hurts.

Ryuho · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

yamadas wrote: »

This skill i so broke and ppl *** defend that skill are fu.... exploiters.
Enjoy your spam skill y cun.....

One simple solution : Level up a templar and beam the hell out of people defending it.

I'm glad you're leveling a templar. I can laugh over your dead body when you try doing all of the things you think you can do with jesus beam.

Yes exactly this. I am gonna try my templar in DB, but still not sure, mist form is *** escape skill, when geting outnumbered I will just melt..

Ppls who cry that RD is so OP dont understand that this skill is only effective when templar has 3 friends with him, as solo player u cant RD so esy and spam only one buttom, in 1 vs x situation u need to use other skills to have a chance, but mostly u will just die, especially if those X guys have a templar with them.. mplar is really stronk in 1 vs 1, which is rare in our zergscrollsonline game.. templar with all those crap changes is pure group class now, without friends guarding ur back is hard to play..