sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You guys realize that Stam nb got a bunch of ability changes right? Power extraction, killers blade, incap strike, grim focus. Where is this nonsense come from that all of a sudden Stam nb is getting ignored or nerfed? Because incap strike and releport strike changes? You guys realize that the damage reduction is very minimal right? If you did say 10k damage with it before patch, then now you do 9.5k. It really is not that bad.

Also, this nonsense about meta shift from mag to stam. What crap. Mag is still very viable. This patch focused on stam because it was needed. This update puts stam and mag back on part with one anither. This is the most balanced patch since 1.5. This theory that mag is some how crap now is complete rubbish.

When every other stamina build in the game gets buffed more than you, does any of that matter?

Power Extraction is still not worth slotting, cloak is still broken, we still have no Major Brutality we can cast from stealth without 2H weapon, Incap wasn't worth slotting over DBOS even before nerf & now Ambush (yeah, the notorious instagib skill...) got nerfed for no reason.

But I guess we're being buffed, yay...


Meanwhile: DKs deal 25% more damage, Stamplars got access to burst damage & a big DPS boost to their main damaging ability, Stam sorcs deal like 2x more damage than before & got a cloak counter with Hurricane.

Nb didn't need a bunch of buffs. They were already in a good spot.

I completely disagree the incap strike is not worth slotting over db. It completely depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The recent nerf 8s nominal but people blow it out of proportion. Say you did 10k damage, now you do 9.5k. If you did 15k you do roughly 14.3k now. It really is not that big of a deal. Imo, it just gets people who look at it on paper to stop crying nerf.

Really, because you can't cast major brutality in stealth your mad? Get over yourself. You have a way to do it. If you want to use 2h. But no, let's make everything the same.

Power extraction is good for particular builds now. It was never good before. For instance, 2h and 1h/she set uo now have a viable aoe. Also, Now it hits like steel tornado when not in execute range.

Dk got a similar buff to nb in that damage new scales from mighty. Also, Dk is weaker in other areas. Dk thrive more at aoe where nb thrives more at single target.

The changes to temp and sorcs were needed. In fact sorcs still needs work.

Why buff a class that is already performing well? That is crazy. You are not being objective in your observations and clearly have not done enough testing of the changes. Sounds like you simply read patch notes and the forum posts.

Stam DK was already the strongest stamina class, and they don't "thrive at aoe." Lol

Stamblade is so delicate right now that they are amost entirely pigeonholed into one shot ganking specs. They simply can't hold their ground against the other stam classes.

Yes I agree that based on class abilities alone a Stam nb can be lacking in pve dps. However, this is where weapon skills should come into play to help out.

You have thrown this argument so many times and it's so incredibly stupid. It's the other way around, since weapon skills are accessible to everyone, whoever has the best class skills to complement will be the strongest.

Ugh, no. The idea is that each class compliments weapons in different ways. For instance, a stam Dk dots combined with a spammabble attack. Or a nb using its spammabble dps combined with weapon dots. What is incredibly stupid is your lack of imagination in finding other approaches to changes outside of trying to make each class a like. Or trying to make it so all classes use all class abilities with no weapon ab8kities. Your lack of understanding this shows how simplistic your approach to changes are.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You guys realize that Stam nb got a bunch of ability changes right? Power extraction, killers blade, incap strike, grim focus. Where is this nonsense come from that all of a sudden Stam nb is getting ignored or nerfed? Because incap strike and releport strike changes? You guys realize that the damage reduction is very minimal right? If you did say 10k damage with it before patch, then now you do 9.5k. It really is not that bad.

Also, this nonsense about meta shift from mag to stam. What crap. Mag is still very viable. This patch focused on stam because it was needed. This update puts stam and mag back on part with one anither. This is the most balanced patch since 1.5. This theory that mag is some how crap now is complete rubbish.

When every other stamina build in the game gets buffed more than you, does any of that matter?

Power Extraction is still not worth slotting, cloak is still broken, we still have no Major Brutality we can cast from stealth without 2H weapon, Incap wasn't worth slotting over DBOS even before nerf & now Ambush (yeah, the notorious instagib skill...) got nerfed for no reason.

But I guess we're being buffed, yay...


Meanwhile: DKs deal 25% more damage, Stamplars got access to burst damage & a big DPS boost to their main damaging ability, Stam sorcs deal like 2x more damage than before & got a cloak counter with Hurricane.

Nb didn't need a bunch of buffs. They were already in a good spot.

I completely disagree the incap strike is not worth slotting over db. It completely depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The recent nerf 8s nominal but people blow it out of proportion. Say you did 10k damage, now you do 9.5k. If you did 15k you do roughly 14.3k now. It really is not that big of a deal. Imo, it just gets people who look at it on paper to stop crying nerf.

Really, because you can't cast major brutality in stealth your mad? Get over yourself. You have a way to do it. If you want to use 2h. But no, let's make everything the same.

Power extraction is good for particular builds now. It was never good before. For instance, 2h and 1h/she set uo now have a viable aoe. Also, Now it hits like steel tornado when not in execute range.

Dk got a similar buff to nb in that damage new scales from mighty. Also, Dk is weaker in other areas. Dk thrive more at aoe where nb thrives more at single target.

The changes to temp and sorcs were needed. In fact sorcs still needs work.

Why buff a class that is already performing well? That is crazy. You are not being objective in your observations and clearly have not done enough testing of the changes. Sounds like you simply read patch notes and the forum posts.

Stam DK was already the strongest stamina class, and they don't "thrive at aoe." Lol

Stamblade is so delicate right now that they are amost entirely pigeonholed into one shot ganking specs. They simply can't hold their ground against the other stam classes.

Yes I agree that based on class abilities alone a Stam nb can be lacking in pve dps. However, this is where weapon skills should come into play to help out.

You have thrown this argument so many times and it's so incredibly stupid. It's the other way around, since weapon skills are accessible to everyone, whoever has the best class skills to complement will be the strongest.

Ugh, no. The idea is that each class compliments weapons in different ways. For instance, a stam Dk dots combined with a spammabble attack. Or a nb using its spammabble dps combined with weapon dots. What is incredibly stupid is your lack of imagination in finding other approaches to changes outside of trying to make each class a like. Or trying to make it so all classes use all class abilities with no weapon ab8kities. Your lack of understanding this shows how simplistic your approach to changes are.

There is only one way, the best one, and nothing else. Which can be mathematically found, there is no imaginative approach or any bs like that. As it stands now Dks have more dots at their disposal compared to nbs, which translates in a higher dps no matter what. You don't want every class feeling like the same? fine, then find another solution, invent a skill that scales with our crit chance or whatever, I don't care.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You guys realize that Stam nb got a bunch of ability changes right? Power extraction, killers blade, incap strike, grim focus. Where is this nonsense come from that all of a sudden Stam nb is getting ignored or nerfed? Because incap strike and releport strike changes? You guys realize that the damage reduction is very minimal right? If you did say 10k damage with it before patch, then now you do 9.5k. It really is not that bad.

Also, this nonsense about meta shift from mag to stam. What crap. Mag is still very viable. This patch focused on stam because it was needed. This update puts stam and mag back on part with one anither. This is the most balanced patch since 1.5. This theory that mag is some how crap now is complete rubbish.

When every other stamina build in the game gets buffed more than you, does any of that matter?

Power Extraction is still not worth slotting, cloak is still broken, we still have no Major Brutality we can cast from stealth without 2H weapon, Incap wasn't worth slotting over DBOS even before nerf & now Ambush (yeah, the notorious instagib skill...) got nerfed for no reason.

But I guess we're being buffed, yay...


Meanwhile: DKs deal 25% more damage, Stamplars got access to burst damage & a big DPS boost to their main damaging ability, Stam sorcs deal like 2x more damage than before & got a cloak counter with Hurricane.

Nb didn't need a bunch of buffs. They were already in a good spot.

I completely disagree the incap strike is not worth slotting over db. It completely depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The recent nerf 8s nominal but people blow it out of proportion. Say you did 10k damage, now you do 9.5k. If you did 15k you do roughly 14.3k now. It really is not that big of a deal. Imo, it just gets people who look at it on paper to stop crying nerf.

Really, because you can't cast major brutality in stealth your mad? Get over yourself. You have a way to do it. If you want to use 2h. But no, let's make everything the same.

Power extraction is good for particular builds now. It was never good before. For instance, 2h and 1h/she set uo now have a viable aoe. Also, Now it hits like steel tornado when not in execute range.

Dk got a similar buff to nb in that damage new scales from mighty. Also, Dk is weaker in other areas. Dk thrive more at aoe where nb thrives more at single target.

The changes to temp and sorcs were needed. In fact sorcs still needs work.

Why buff a class that is already performing well? That is crazy. You are not being objective in your observations and clearly have not done enough testing of the changes. Sounds like you simply read patch notes and the forum posts.

Stam DK was already the strongest stamina class, and they don't "thrive at aoe." Lol

Stamblade is so delicate right now that they are amost entirely pigeonholed into one shot ganking specs. They simply can't hold their ground against the other stam classes.

Yes I agree that based on class abilities alone a Stam nb can be lacking in pve dps. However, this is where weapon skills should come into play to help out.

You have thrown this argument so many times and it's so incredibly stupid. It's the other way around, since weapon skills are accessible to everyone, whoever has the best class skills to complement will be the strongest.

Ugh, no. The idea is that each class compliments weapons in different ways. For instance, a stam Dk dots combined with a spammabble attack. Or a nb using its spammabble dps combined with weapon dots. What is incredibly stupid is your lack of imagination in finding other approaches to changes outside of trying to make each class a like. Or trying to make it so all classes use all class abilities with no weapon ab8kities. Your lack of understanding this shows how simplistic your approach to changes are.

There is only one way, the best one, and nothing else. Which can be mathematically found, there is no imaginative approach or any bs like that. As it stands now Dks have more dots at their disposal compared to nbs, which translates in a higher dps no matter what. You don't want every class feeling like the same? fine, then find another solution, invent a skill that scales with our crit chance or whatever, I don't care.

Exactly, there will always be a mathematicly best setup. No matter what. That is inevitable. The key is getting them in similar ranges. Aga8n, improving dots in weapon lines will give more dots to stam nb to improve dps. Dk already has that. It is not like a Dk will run 5 dots on their bar. So giving dots via weapon lines that are in range of Dk dots help put stam blades in the same dps range. You will never get everyone to hit the same numbers mathmatecly. There will always be a best.

Oh but they will, of course they will. They'll slot every single *** dot they can, and even more so in competitive environments where you buffs are on demand. So yea, nbs are in dire need of a sustainable dps buff

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You guys realize that Stam nb got a bunch of ability changes right? Power extraction, killers blade, incap strike, grim focus. Where is this nonsense come from that all of a sudden Stam nb is getting ignored or nerfed? Because incap strike and releport strike changes? You guys realize that the damage reduction is very minimal right? If you did say 10k damage with it before patch, then now you do 9.5k. It really is not that bad.

Also, this nonsense about meta shift from mag to stam. What crap. Mag is still very viable. This patch focused on stam because it was needed. This update puts stam and mag back on part with one anither. This is the most balanced patch since 1.5. This theory that mag is some how crap now is complete rubbish.

When every other stamina build in the game gets buffed more than you, does any of that matter?

Power Extraction is still not worth slotting, cloak is still broken, we still have no Major Brutality we can cast from stealth without 2H weapon, Incap wasn't worth slotting over DBOS even before nerf & now Ambush (yeah, the notorious instagib skill...) got nerfed for no reason.

But I guess we're being buffed, yay...


Meanwhile: DKs deal 25% more damage, Stamplars got access to burst damage & a big DPS boost to their main damaging ability, Stam sorcs deal like 2x more damage than before & got a cloak counter with Hurricane.

Nb didn't need a bunch of buffs. They were already in a good spot.

I completely disagree the incap strike is not worth slotting over db. It completely depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The recent nerf 8s nominal but people blow it out of proportion. Say you did 10k damage, now you do 9.5k. If you did 15k you do roughly 14.3k now. It really is not that big of a deal. Imo, it just gets people who look at it on paper to stop crying nerf.

Really, because you can't cast major brutality in stealth your mad? Get over yourself. You have a way to do it. If you want to use 2h. But no, let's make everything the same.

Power extraction is good for particular builds now. It was never good before. For instance, 2h and 1h/she set uo now have a viable aoe. Also, Now it hits like steel tornado when not in execute range.

Dk got a similar buff to nb in that damage new scales from mighty. Also, Dk is weaker in other areas. Dk thrive more at aoe where nb thrives more at single target.

The changes to temp and sorcs were needed. In fact sorcs still needs work.

Why buff a class that is already performing well? That is crazy. You are not being objective in your observations and clearly have not done enough testing of the changes. Sounds like you simply read patch notes and the forum posts.

Stam DK was already the strongest stamina class, and they don't "thrive at aoe." Lol

Stamblade is so delicate right now that they are amost entirely pigeonholed into one shot ganking specs. They simply can't hold their ground against the other stam classes.

Yes I agree that based on class abilities alone a Stam nb can be lacking in pve dps. However, this is where weapon skills should come into play to help out.

You have thrown this argument so many times and it's so incredibly stupid. It's the other way around, since weapon skills are accessible to everyone, whoever has the best class skills to complement will be the strongest.

Ugh, no. The idea is that each class compliments weapons in different ways. For instance, a stam Dk dots combined with a spammabble attack. Or a nb using its spammabble dps combined with weapon dots. What is incredibly stupid is your lack of imagination in finding other approaches to changes outside of trying to make each class a like. Or trying to make it so all classes use all class abilities with no weapon ab8kities. Your lack of understanding this shows how simplistic your approach to changes are.

There is only one way, the best one, and nothing else. Which can be mathematically found, there is no imaginative approach or any bs like that. As it stands now Dks have more dots at their disposal compared to nbs, which translates in a higher dps no matter what. You don't want every class feeling like the same? fine, then find another solution, invent a skill that scales with our crit chance or whatever, I don't care.

Exactly, there will always be a mathematicly best setup. No matter what. That is inevitable. The key is getting them in similar ranges. Aga8n, improving dots in weapon lines will give more dots to stam nb to improve dps. Dk already has that. It is not like a Dk will run 5 dots on their bar. So giving dots via weapon lines that are in range of Dk dots help put stam blades in the same dps range. You will never get everyone to hit the same numbers mathmatecly. There will always be a best.

Oh but they will, of course they will. They'll slot every single *** dot they can, and even more so in competitive environments where you buffs are on demand. So yea, nbs are in dire need of a sustainable dps buff

Really, lol. Your argument is that a Dk will use 5 dots on their bar while trying to maintain buffs. O man. I think our conversation is over.

Lol. Don't make me laugh buddy, check any competitive build, they already slot every weapon dot, rending slashes, poison injection and scorching earth. So you are telling me that if weapon dots get buffed they will stop using them or sme sht? Lmao

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You guys realize that Stam nb got a bunch of ability changes right? Power extraction, killers blade, incap strike, grim focus. Where is this nonsense come from that all of a sudden Stam nb is getting ignored or nerfed? Because incap strike and releport strike changes? You guys realize that the damage reduction is very minimal right? If you did say 10k damage with it before patch, then now you do 9.5k. It really is not that bad.

Also, this nonsense about meta shift from mag to stam. What crap. Mag is still very viable. This patch focused on stam because it was needed. This update puts stam and mag back on part with one anither. This is the most balanced patch since 1.5. This theory that mag is some how crap now is complete rubbish.

When every other stamina build in the game gets buffed more than you, does any of that matter?

Power Extraction is still not worth slotting, cloak is still broken, we still have no Major Brutality we can cast from stealth without 2H weapon, Incap wasn't worth slotting over DBOS even before nerf & now Ambush (yeah, the notorious instagib skill...) got nerfed for no reason.

But I guess we're being buffed, yay...


Meanwhile: DKs deal 25% more damage, Stamplars got access to burst damage & a big DPS boost to their main damaging ability, Stam sorcs deal like 2x more damage than before & got a cloak counter with Hurricane.

Nb didn't need a bunch of buffs. They were already in a good spot.

I completely disagree the incap strike is not worth slotting over db. It completely depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The recent nerf 8s nominal but people blow it out of proportion. Say you did 10k damage, now you do 9.5k. If you did 15k you do roughly 14.3k now. It really is not that big of a deal. Imo, it just gets people who look at it on paper to stop crying nerf.

Really, because you can't cast major brutality in stealth your mad? Get over yourself. You have a way to do it. If you want to use 2h. But no, let's make everything the same.

Power extraction is good for particular builds now. It was never good before. For instance, 2h and 1h/she set uo now have a viable aoe. Also, Now it hits like steel tornado when not in execute range.

Dk got a similar buff to nb in that damage new scales from mighty. Also, Dk is weaker in other areas. Dk thrive more at aoe where nb thrives more at single target.

The changes to temp and sorcs were needed. In fact sorcs still needs work.

Why buff a class that is already performing well? That is crazy. You are not being objective in your observations and clearly have not done enough testing of the changes. Sounds like you simply read patch notes and the forum posts.

Stam DK was already the strongest stamina class, and they don't "thrive at aoe." Lol

Stamblade is so delicate right now that they are amost entirely pigeonholed into one shot ganking specs. They simply can't hold their ground against the other stam classes.

Yes I agree that based on class abilities alone a Stam nb can be lacking in pve dps. However, this is where weapon skills should come into play to help out.

You have thrown this argument so many times and it's so incredibly stupid. It's the other way around, since weapon skills are accessible to everyone, whoever has the best class skills to complement will be the strongest.

Ugh, no. The idea is that each class compliments weapons in different ways. For instance, a stam Dk dots combined with a spammabble attack. Or a nb using its spammabble dps combined with weapon dots. What is incredibly stupid is your lack of imagination in finding other approaches to changes outside of trying to make each class a like. Or trying to make it so all classes use all class abilities with no weapon ab8kities. Your lack of understanding this shows how simplistic your approach to changes are.

I think you missed the part where NB spammable DPS is not worth using, because a weapon skill line has a better alternative that results in more DPS (Rapid Strikes>Surprise Attack).

The DKs use the very same Rapid Strikes and they buff their DPS even further with their powerful class DoTs.

They do also use DoTs from weapon skill lines (Scorched Earth with vMSA Bow, Poison Injection & Rending Slashes on DW Bar). Coincidentally, the very same DoTs that stamina NBs use as well.

Also, both NBs & stam DKs use Rearming Trap from Fighters Guild.


Out of our class toolkit, we get nothing that helps us compete in PvE DPS. Relentless Focus is on 2nd bar just to activate Assassination passives and Killer's Blade is outperformed damage wise by literally every other execute out there.

Perhaps a rework to some passive such as increasing dot damage which will help mag and stam nb. I would also like to see the eexcuse increased to at least 30% or 35%.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Can we get rid of the stun from incapacitating strike? The stun is more of a pain than anything else. How about something that improves our DPS instead?

I would suggest that it gives a disease dot. Although I personally like the stun.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Is there any possibility that you could change Agony to a stamina based skill and rework what it actually does? I can't imagine many people even use the skill or it's morphs as it stands right now because of it breaking from DoTs (or was it damage in general? I can't remember because I never use the skill). Maybe change it to a disease based DoT that does Minor Defile, and gives you Minor Vitality for the duration of the DoT, and remove the 30 second disorient?

I kind of wish Veil of Blade's did either stamina or magicka damage type's. I love that ultimate.

@Wrobel, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

here are some ideas to revamp useless NB skills and make them better for Stamina(or Magicka)

Active Skills:

1. Reaper Mark(Target mark morph), buff Reapers Mark right now it pales in comparison to piercing mark in every shape and form. Maybe increase the major berserk to 10 secs and add the minor vulnerability debuff(I think it the one that make the target recieve increased dmg from all sources) for the duration. This change would make you choose between spotting stealth targets or 'reaping' them by marking them for all to burn down.

2. Assassin's Scourge(Grim focus morph), please allows assassins scourge to proc of of every light attack after the first one so that you don't have to recast it after the first one, pretty much allowing for multiple bow procs in 20 sec granted you get the required LA/HA to do so.It will add to dps
Note: this changes will greatly help Archer NBs substitute this skill for that weak slow moving dps skill called snipe

3. Mirage(Blur Morph), This skill is heavily over shadowed by shuffle I think some thing needs to change to this morph. the other one is fine since magblades use it for speed boost but mirage could use some thing else I'm open for suggestions.

4. Dark Shades(Summon Shade Morph), Please make dark shades deal physical/disease dmg I'd like to have some pets of my own to support me when using a bow and melee NBs can potentially have 3 attackers on 1 for 17 secs the dmg shouldn't be super high but enough to be a threat, removing the minor main from this specific morph could compensate for the increased dmg.

5. Prolonged Suffering(Agony Morph), Make this morph deal disease dmg and remove the dot, make it cost stamina and not break on one dot applied to the target any more than one dot should break the stun automatically as well as breaking on every other dmg types(non dots etc.) This change would give NBs more options for ranged stamina CC.

6. Power extraction,(Drain Power morph) I appreciate the dmg type change to the ability but it needs more to be competitive with Steelnado, maybe it could add a snare since you are draining and infecting targets also It was stated in this thread but I'll say it here again remove the hit requirement to proc major brutality this allows NBs to buff up before engagement like Dks and Sorcs with out restricting us to use a 2h.

Passives:

Assassination
-Executioner: allow this passive to give stamina back in addition to magicka

Shadow
Passives are fine as is.

Siphoning
-Magicka flood: allow this passive to grant 8% max stam in addition to magicka

Vythri wrote: »

Honestly though, why doesn't every skill for every class have a stamina and a magicka morph?

I'll humor that thought, but do you have a solution to increasing the number of magicka weapon types from 2 to 4?