Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

Anti_Virus · May 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Try this combo next time you need heals cast rally, vigor, roll dodge, cloak and then hit rally again. Cloak guarantees it will crit.

This, Shadowy disguise is pretty much our "major mending" since it crit heals us.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Jaronking · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Cloak isn't as broken as you make it seem and the fact that you don't even mention Shadow Image and Double Take makes it seem like you need to take a look at the abilities you have at your disposal before crying about how your escape options are the same as those of the other classes.

HuawaSepp · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Cloak isn't as broken as you make it seem and the fact that you don't even mention Shadow Image and Double Take makes it seem like you need to take a look at the abilities you have at your disposal before crying about how your escape options are the same as those of the other classes.

Slotting every defensive skill just to get a halfway decent defense don't look like a clever idea to me.
I only played magblade so far but stamblades are much easier to kill than stamDK or stamplar

Jaronking · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Cloak isn't as broken as you make it seem and the fact that you don't even mention Shadow Image and Double Take makes it seem like you need to take a look at the abilities you have at your disposal before crying about how your escape options are the same as those of the other classes.

If you believe that then I don't think were playing the same game not to mentioned again cloak has a lot of counters to it and more of a hassle then a escape skill.Why would I use those abilities when its a waste of my already limited magica supply,I could instead use for fear plus Shuffle and Rapids are better for a stamblade then double take.While not waste my magica which the other two classes have access to as well.With shadow imagine Can be countered or you can walk out of its range and not know so isn't always worth using.

Also am not crying about how my escape options are the same as other class,which is something you brought up rremembe?Am just proving your point wrong you claim we had better or more escape options the Stamplar and StamDK and in practice we do but in reality and in open world those escape skills are very limited and are equal to a stamplar or a stamDK.So sorry if proving you wrong is crying.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

A StamPlar or StamDK has about zero class abilities that allow them to escape.

A StamBlade has at about three of them.

DDuke · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Cloak isn't as broken as you make it seem and the fact that you don't even mention Shadow Image and Double Take makes it seem like you need to take a look at the abilities you have at your disposal before crying about how your escape options are the same as those of the other classes.

Kris, as much as I respect your opinions - please stop talking bs.

If you try cloak on Live, you'll quickly realize that it breaks from your own Poison Injection/Cripple, incoming projectiles, incoming DoT damage & so on.

On PTS it's much better though - according to my tests DK DoTs no longer pull you out of cloak, nor does your own Poison Injection (I didn't test other things). So maybe stamina NB is worth playing again - we'll see (cloak will be good counter vs poisons).

Also, you shouldn't bring up Double Take when discussing stamina NBs, Shuffle is an infinitely better option for the skill slot (I even prefer it on my magicka NB, who already gets Major Expedition from Crippling Grasp).

Anti_Virus · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades heal themselves just fine with Vigor and Rally.

Not compared to Stamplar and StamDK their healing craps on ours.Major mending boost the heals from those abilities by 40% I believe. So let's say a DK who vigor tooltip is 10k for the heal his will be boost to 14k which 7k in PVP without any other buffs.I will admit my math could be wrong if so completely IGNORE me.

Compared to a StamDK and StamPlar, StamNB has a lot better escape options than the former two.

Yes they have the option in cloak but cloak is so broken it doesn't really matter. Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

Cloak isn't as broken as you make it seem and the fact that you don't even mention Shadow Image and Double Take makes it seem like you need to take a look at the abilities you have at your disposal before crying about how your escape options are the same as those of the other classes.

You gotta be trolling now, shadow image and double take all cost magicka and are unreliable. Double take can be replaced with shuffle a much better evasion since it removes snares.

Shadow image is predictable and again unreliable. I beleive you play a magic NB so those skills are good Stam NBs are the squishiest class in the game and those class skills benefit Magblade WAY more than stamblades.

We all want access to some form of mending be it major or minor to be able to heal effectively, Currently Shadowy Disguise is the equivalent of Igneous shield since it guarantees vigor crit ticks but again clock is still unreliable(Dont know how it functions on the PTS since I'm a console peasant).

Jaronking · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

A StamPlar or StamDK has about zero class abilities that allow them to escape.

A StamBlade has at about three of them.

Ok they have 0 abilities that allow them to escape and am telling you that while Yes NB have three their not reliable Escape abilities right now.Double take isn't worth the slot while Shadow image if ok but not useful since you can walk out the range of the ability and never know until its to late.Which is a bad escape skill if you can't use it when you really need it.As multiple people in this thread have stated Cloak isn't like it use to be its not working for a lot of players,with the ability having more then a dozen counters its not useful.So while yes a Stamplar and a StamDK does not have a native escape ability in their class tree the 3 stamblades have access to are lackluster in their current state and are left using the same abilities as DK and Stamplars to escape.

Can someone explain what's wrong with giving NB minor mending?Other then you just don't want NB to have it.

Anti_Virus · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

A StamPlar or StamDK has about zero class abilities that allow them to escape.

A StamBlade has at about three of them.

Stamplar and StamDK don't Need class escapes Zos designed them to be a sturdy warrior Tank/dps classes but not everyone plays that way though.

Templars are supportive and terriorial they heal their allies take dmg all while "protecting the house" they get a class skill clense that can be spammed and grants major mending

DKs are like the dragon born they are sturdy in your face class with refelctive scales to help them hold their ground and lots of AoE and major mending.

People that play medium armor Temps and DKs are going against the design of the class so since they can play effectively in medium armror like a NB(which was designed to be quick burst melee dps class) why can't we get major meding too?

Note: I personally don't care if we get major mending or not but it would be helpful for not just stamNBs but for magNB healers as well.

Elevenstorm · May 2016

One thing to note and I don't want this to become common knowledge or cloak will be even more useless. Templars' Dark Flare if casted while you are visable and then cloak afterwards will continue to cast and bring you out of cloak. This is because at hit it is treated as an AoE even though it is a projectile.

DDuke · May 2016

I dont think NBs should get Major (or Minor) Mending (atleast via class skills) - it's good to keep classes unique & Cloak fixes along with the new Major Vitality potions & certain new item sets should help your survivability significantly next patch.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

I merely replied to this, which is the real BS.

Unreliable Cloak is still better than no Cloak. Double Take, no matter if there's better non-class abilities, is still a class ability that will aid you with escaping. Shadow Image is in fact one of the top abilities to allow you to escape.

StamPlar and StamDK get none of these, so in the end a StamNB always has much better ways to escape any given situation than the other two.

This has nothing to do with other aspects of StamNB not being up to snuff with StamPlar or StamDK, but I think this is more related to those two being overpowered than a StamNB being underpowered.

Jaronking · May 2016

.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Along with all the counters to cloak our options that are reliable are the same for all three classes but Stamplar and StamDK are way less squishy then most Stamblades.

I merely replied to this, which is the real BS.

Unreliable Cloak is still better than no Cloak. Double Take, no matter if there's better non-class abilities, is still a class ability that will aid you with escaping. Shadow Image is in fact one of the top abilities to allow you to escape.

StamPlar and StamDK get none of these, so in the end a StamNB always has much better ways to escape any given situation than the other two.

This has nothing to do with other aspects of StamNB not being up to snuff with StamPlar or StamDK, but I think this is more related to those two being overpowered than a StamNB being underpowered.

Am sorry but your looking at the ability in theory of how they should work and not in how their actually working on live.Its like when Jules said we have a burst heal yes we kinda have one doesn't mean its useful.That what your saying here.Their no point in using most of the skills as other in the thread have said.I don't see how you don't understand this.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

No point? Are you silly?

Yeah, I'm done here.

Anti_Virus · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

No point to use Cloak, Shadow Image and/or Double Take?

Yeah, I'm done.

Yep, because Shuffle is better and we all keep telling you that but you ignore it and shadow image is predictable and counterable plus is has range checks.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

Shadow Image is only one of the most powerful escape skills in the game...

The point was that someone said Nightblade escape skills are basically on par with StamDK and StamPlar. This is a completely false statement.

Ragnaroek93 · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

The only reason to go for a magic melee NB is to take away enemy movement speed through snares and or one shot large groups with VD,Proxy,Soul tether, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno could we please see a revamp in lotus fan and concealed to make it as competitive as a Stam NB? All the changes to nightblade are orientated for Stam builds, where's the love

Magblade is competitive in PVP and PVE stamblade is no where near competitive in PVE and in PVP we are only good for ganking.So we need the help while magblades are competitive in both aspect you guys do not really need a buff while stamblades does.

If you think Stamina Nightblades in PvP are only good for ganking, you are very wrong. StamBlades in PvE need a buff, they are more than fine in open world PvP and stronger than a MagBlade at 1v1.

If you talk about Meele Manablade than yes. But ranged Manablade is incredible strong at the moment.

Jaronking · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

No point? Are you silly?

Yeah, I'm done here.

Like I said multiple time their reason to use double take.I said nothing about Cloak.I just said Cloak isn't as useful as it used to be because of all the counters to it and it bugging out at times.Shadow image has problem with it range and you being easy to walk out of its range during a fight. I have already said this about 3 times now I said their no point in putting this argument over and over again because as I mentioned before their not as reliable as your making them out to be.Multiple people has said this but your keep bring it up.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Shadow Image is only one of the most powerful escape skills in the game...

The point was that someone said Nightblade escape skills are basically on par with StamDK and StamPlar. This is a completely false statement.

I will keep saying it because you won't admit that these skills only really work in theory or should work but in game it doesn't work that well.cloak for many players just bug out,Shuffle is better then double take something all classes have access to so on par with DK and Temps.Shadow image is ok and can be countered by a competent opponent.So it can be negated if all those fail we are stuck like Dk and Templar so yes they are on par right now.When they fix cloak this will no longer be the case but right now their on par just admit it.

Lava_Croft · May 2016

I use all three of those skills and especially Shadow Image is hands down the best escape skill in the game, while also debuffing the damage output of your enemy. Maybe you should do less theory and some more training.

HuawaSepp · May 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I use all three of those skills and especially Shadow Image is hands down the best escape skill in the game, while also debuffing the damage output of your enemy. Maybe you should do less theory and some more training.

Yeah NBs are good at ganking...
But if you could escape with Shadow Image from a fight you could have used bow in first place.

If you have your perfect placed Shadow Image in your very theoretical situation then yeah. GZ

Escape tools are for ganking.
Heals and shields are for a serious fight.

DDuke · May 2016

I have to agree with @Lava_Croft here though, Shadow Image is extremely powerful when combined with LoS (in open field, I'd take Streak/BoL over it any day though).

It's powerful, but it's also extremely frustrating when it doesn't work - when your character just waves his/her hands and nothing happens because you were out of the unspecified teleport range and the game did nothing to indicate that.

So here, again, some considerations for ZOS regarding Shadow Image and making it a little less frustrating.
Just QoL changes, no buffs/nerfs:

Skill icon should change when you're out of range, or the skill could become unusable (like cloak when it gets disabled by an ability).
Update the tooltip to let us know what the range is on the teleport. It is not 36m (the only range given on the tooltip, probably refers to archer shade's attack range).

GreenSoup2HoT · May 2016

@DDuke

Shadow Image, the ability does fade out when your not in range and become's unusable. At least this is what i have experienced on console. The problem is your always outside the range at the worst time but also the duration is so short to work with.

I think a good fix would be to just add a giant circle around the radius of the image. This give's the nightblade room to work with since you can see the boundaries. Similar to caltrop's. Just have that thin circle orange line around the summon image.

Now nightblade's can see their boundaries to teleport back. All that is left to do is give buff abilities a timer on-top of the ability ui. This way console player's have a sense of ability duration without add-on's like pc has.

Strider_Roshin · May 2016

Our class defense has a ridiculous amount counters that we need the means to survive outside of cloak. As a templar you get your major defenses, and minor protection from your rune as well as the strongest heals in the game if you're magicka. As a sorc you get your major defenses from boundless storm in conjunction with major expedition, and a DoT; you also get the strongest damage shield in the game if you're magicka. As a DK you have a huge buff to your spell resistance passively, better healing while you have spiked armor activated, and you have the wings which makes you a monster against anyone who isn't melee. As a Nightblade you get cloak which can be rendered useless if your opponent uses AoEs, detection potions, revealing flare, piercing mark, mage light or evil hunter.

So we have a good means of defense as long as you're not in PvP. ZOS has essentially deleted our class defense, and we need to have the means of defending ourselves outside of cloak. A couple of suggestions I would like to make is to change the soul siphoner passive so that it grants you minor mending for 15 seconds after casting a siphoning ability, and change swallow soul so that the healing done to self is much stronger than it is currently. Also how about placing minor protection in mirage instead, or increase our physical defense passively by 3500. Do something. Because if stealth is the Nightblade's "home" we've been evicted.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · May 2016

How do you stop a bolting Sorc you don't you gap close to stay with them only a stub can stop the Bolt as they do to everyone. Roots and snares stops them
From running but they can still bolt you must be on a Melee with a gap closer to kill a sorcerer.

Let us look at Nightblade Escapes.

Blur: Grants 20% miss chance. Can be granted from an armor power and two different sets one of which can be crafted. This is an escape that all classes can use. Can you call it a class escape if all classes can do it, it's more of a Nightblade favor as anyone can do this.
Counter: None

Shadow Cloak: Grants Invisibility for 2.9 seconds. Can be granted from a potions for 15 seconds of invisibility, the Shadow Ultimate synergy also grants this as does a killing blow with a heavy attack from CP passives.
Counter: AoE, Flare, Mage Light, Expert Hunter, Piercing Mark, Potions and delayed damage. Fun fact most countered power in the game.

Shadow Image: Grants the power to teleport to the Shade on the second activation while within range.
It's OP is you don't have a Nightblade or never fought one. It needs LoS to be casted and well when you see it keep on eye on it or cast Caltrops or Flare on the Shade even if they break LoS you can still prevent Cloak by using the as for mentioned strategy.

Also let's drop the Templars and Dragon Knights not having an escape you have powers that grant ungodly staying power. That you walk the Nightblade path of burst DPS that's on you, your classes were designed to live not kill and be forced to peace out cause you loss half you health from a hard look.

Bromburak · May 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

A StamPlar or StamDK has about zero class abilities that allow them to escape.

A StamBlade has at about three of them.

Stamplar and StamDK don't Need class escapes Zos designed them to be a sturdy warrior Tank/dps classes but not everyone plays that way though.

Templars are supportive and terriorial they heal their allies take dmg all while "protecting the house" they get a class skill clense that can be spammed and grants major mending

DKs are like the dragon born they are sturdy in your face class with refelctive scales to help them hold their ground and lots of AoE and major mending.

People that play medium armor Temps and DKs are going against the design of the class so since they can play effectively in medium armror like a NB(which was designed to be quick burst melee dps class) why can't we get major meding too?

They don't go against the design they are just going for proper work arounds because heavy armor is still not fun to play in comparison to medium or light armor and stamina class morphs are a joke if your are not playing NB.

For most Templar, DK and Sorc builds it only makes sense to use 2-4 of the class skills when you prefer playing with Stamina.
Now you ask why we can't major mending as NB? Because we don't need another class without trade offs, what we need are reasons for the other classes to use their class skills.

NB skills were broken for a very long time and it took ages to fix us. Today we have a great class but
every other class is damned to play Magicka or skip most of their class skills just for playing a well performing stam builds.

When only 1 of 4 classes support your individual play style I call it bad design and you don't make players happy on a long run.
All players want to have fun instead regret their class choice or being stuck with Magicka for perfect synergies.

joshhh_nb · May 2016

So can i get support for Zos to buff concealed weapon? Swallow soul hits nearly as hard, heals and cost much less. Non proxy Melee magic NB lives matter too. An empower for using it while stealthed seems good or a spell resis de buff. Having a speed buff is nice but I'd rather have more damage.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Strider_Roshin · May 2016

joshhh_nb wrote: »

So can i get support for Zos to buff concealed weapon? Swallow soul hits nearly as hard, heals and cost much less. Non proxy Melee magic NB lives matter too. An empower for using it while stealthed seems good or a spell resis de buff. Having a speed buff is nice but I'd rather have more damage.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

And it heals you, and it has a 28m range. I know, it's ridiculous. I think they need to buff veiled strike as a whole since surprise attack does significantly less DPS than flurry. A cost reduction in conjunction with a damage buff will be nice.

Hridh · June 2016

So, now that the patch has hit, how broken are nightblades, esp. Stamblades?