Why is the content so easy?
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?
If its too easy people wont do the content either. So its a fine line. You dont want people being bored but you also dont want to lock 99.9% of your userbase out of something you spent months designing. How do I justify spending that money again to the bean counters when hardly anyone is using the last thing I created.
1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.3 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
Tried that in craglorn its deserted. So ya as you can see that isnt going to help retain customers. all it will do is drive more and more away. While your "hardcore" people arent buying things like cosmetics and differently skinned mounts. Most I would bet dont pay for a monthly sub either. So ya I mean what can they say? if anything they probably will make the trials more accessible next.
I don't mean craglorn though, just need to leave the real group dungeons alone. You know, spindleclutch, city of ash etc. Those are the ones people should work on in veteran mode at least, to have a challenge in the game. They should not be faceroll with random person 1 spamming impulse at a boss as a single target spell and believe they'll succeed.Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on May 4, 2016 2:50PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far beyond what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
People who are too ignorant to even use simple things like blocking or dodge rolling and then cry it's too difficult, are not an average player. They're the people who rage quit after one death and who need everything spoon fed to them. It can't be that those are the kind of people ZOS adjusts it's content to.
There is always someone who finds something too difficult which means challenges aren't allowed because that automatically causes a portion of players to not play them. You said yourself that abandoning content means it's too difficult and suddenly they will also interpret it as "too easy" if people find it too boring? Make up your mind.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vets either have all already or are not interested into buying from the crown store - so there is not much to gain from them. And when there is not much to gain from a customer group, then there is not much to do for them either. It would be wasted money and resources. They rather do content for those, who do not have all yet, and want to see all of Tamriel, and will most likely subscribe and over time buy a whole lot from the crown store with their allotment of crowns and because those are not nearly enough for all the new stuff - because they have nothing yet - they will buy extra crowns on top of it. This is the target group - with vets they have made their money already, there is not much further to gain from them, unlike from new players.Edited by Lysette on May 4, 2016 2:53PM3 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.4 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
And it will only lead to more people getting kicked from dungeons because they don't even know the most basic of things.Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on May 4, 2016 2:57PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
I agree with that. I think even you said in one of those threads that you miss old Doshia though
I think there should be a learning curve. Level 3s having faceroll easy content is fine, it will be challenging enough for them as they're just beginning to learn. But as they progress, it should teach them SOMETHING at least. It should show them why you need to interrupt heavy attacks and dodge out of red, at the very least, and it doesn't have to be, like, vMA-level hard, but at least give them some sense of achievement on the way. Heck there's even a thread on forums saying delve bosses actually have mechanics but no one ever sees them because bosses die before they do them...
For instance I remember vet levels at launch. Vet zones were...challenging to say the least. If 3 mobs saw you before you saw them, you basically died more often than not. Do I advocate that level of difficulty? I did l2p back then but there was no enjoyment when every open world mob was that much of a challenge. I didn't like it back then, I still don't think it'd be a good idea now(even though now I would probably be able to faceroll it anyway, but I do remember my frustration as a newb-ish player back then).
However, what most of us were proposing in regards to vet zones was a learning curve. It felt that after you finished Coldharbour you suddenly hit a wall. Enemies were 100 times more strong suddenly. It shouldn't have been that abrupt, that didn't make sense. Vet 1 zone could be about the same in difficulty as Coldharbour, maybe just a BIT harder. Then v2 bit more harder. And so on until in vet 10 zone they could keep the old vet zones' difficulty, since by then most people'd learn how to deal with it and not feel so baffled and desperate anymore.
What they did instead was be silent for MONTHS I think(I mean, people were all over the forums discussing whether this was even intended because it kind of felt like a bug, and if it was intended whether it was subject to change or not, many people left without ever getting any reaction, but ZOS never graced us with their response) then, by the time most old players either got used to it or left they put a giant blanket nerf to all vet zones to where all of a sudden you could solo WBs and dolmens and kill most other mobs with closed eyes.
And it's only gone downhill since then imo. They should've talked to us back then, they should talk to us now, but they don't bother for whatever reason. They should try to find compromises, decisions that, while possibly harder, can really profit the game in the long run...they prefer silence+nerfhammer treatment though.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.3 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.
Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.
Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.
Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.
Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.
In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)
The guild I am in runs nights where they take newbies and teach them the ropes. Its called taking things into our own hands and not depending on ZOS to do it all for us.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on May 4, 2016 3:04PM3 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Thats up to you but you will find yourself lonely. I prefer having lots of friends in the game. I dont mind helping people.2 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
I agree with that. I think even you said in one of those threads that you miss old Doshia though
I think there should be a learning curve. Level 3s having faceroll easy content is fine, it will be challenging enough for them as they're just beginning to learn. But as they progress, it should teach them SOMETHING at least. It should show them why you need to interrupt heavy attacks and dodge out of red, at the very least, and it doesn't have to be, like, vMA-level hard, but at least give them some sense of achievement on the way. Heck there's even a thread on forums saying delve bosses actually have mechanics but no one ever sees them because bosses die before they do them...
For instance I remember vet levels at launch. Vet zones were...challenging to say the least. If 3 mobs saw you before you saw them, you basically died more often than not. Do I advocate that level of difficulty? I did l2p back then but there was no enjoyment when every open world mob was that much of a challenge. I didn't like it back then, I still don't think it'd be a good idea now(even though now I would probably be able to faceroll it anyway, but I do remember my frustration as a newb-ish player back then).
However, what most of us were proposing in regards to vet zones was a learning curve. It felt that after you finished Coldharbour you suddenly hit a wall. Enemies were 100 times more strong suddenly. It shouldn't have been that abrupt, that didn't make sense. Vet 1 zone could be about the same in difficulty as Coldharbour, maybe just a BIT harder. Then v2 bit more harder. And so on until in vet 10 zone they could keep the old vet zones' difficulty, since by then most people'd learn how to deal with it and not feel so baffled and desperate anymore.
What they did instead was be silent for MONTHS I think(I mean, people were all over the forums discussing whether this was even intended because it kind of felt like a bug, and if it was intended whether it was subject to change or not, many people left without ever getting any reaction, but ZOS never graced us with their response) then, by the time most old players either got used to it or left they put a giant blanket nerf to all vet zones to where all of a sudden you could solo WBs and dolmens and kill most other mobs with closed eyes.
And it's only gone downhill since then imo. They should've talked to us back then, they should talk to us now, but they don't bother for whatever reason. They should try to find compromises, decisions that, while possibly harder, can really profit the game in the long run...they prefer silence+nerfhammer treatment though.
A very well thought out comment with much to agree with. I also believe in having the level of difficulty grow with the player.It makes sense.
What I would love to see ingame would be a school for players to choose to join. Players being mentors in the school to teach them how to do the things that we are speaking of.
It might give those who chose to teach a sense of pride in helping other players out,and give them a chance at becoming good at their skills.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
I agree with that. I think even you said in one of those threads that you miss old Doshia though
I think there should be a learning curve. Level 3s having faceroll easy content is fine, it will be challenging enough for them as they're just beginning to learn. But as they progress, it should teach them SOMETHING at least. It should show them why you need to interrupt heavy attacks and dodge out of red, at the very least, and it doesn't have to be, like, vMA-level hard, but at least give them some sense of achievement on the way. Heck there's even a thread on forums saying delve bosses actually have mechanics but no one ever sees them because bosses die before they do them...
For instance I remember vet levels at launch. Vet zones were...challenging to say the least. If 3 mobs saw you before you saw them, you basically died more often than not. Do I advocate that level of difficulty? I did l2p back then but there was no enjoyment when every open world mob was that much of a challenge. I didn't like it back then, I still don't think it'd be a good idea now(even though now I would probably be able to faceroll it anyway, but I do remember my frustration as a newb-ish player back then).
However, what most of us were proposing in regards to vet zones was a learning curve. It felt that after you finished Coldharbour you suddenly hit a wall. Enemies were 100 times more strong suddenly. It shouldn't have been that abrupt, that didn't make sense. Vet 1 zone could be about the same in difficulty as Coldharbour, maybe just a BIT harder. Then v2 bit more harder. And so on until in vet 10 zone they could keep the old vet zones' difficulty, since by then most people'd learn how to deal with it and not feel so baffled and desperate anymore.
What they did instead was be silent for MONTHS I think(I mean, people were all over the forums discussing whether this was even intended because it kind of felt like a bug, and if it was intended whether it was subject to change or not, many people left without ever getting any reaction, but ZOS never graced us with their response) then, by the time most old players either got used to it or left they put a giant blanket nerf to all vet zones to where all of a sudden you could solo WBs and dolmens and kill most other mobs with closed eyes.
And it's only gone downhill since then imo. They should've talked to us back then, they should talk to us now, but they don't bother for whatever reason. They should try to find compromises, decisions that, while possibly harder, can really profit the game in the long run...they prefer silence+nerfhammer treatment though.
Well, there is some help in the game, if tutorial mode is enabled. I'll give you an example. I was level 5 and tried to fight 2 archers which were level 8, with a bow. I had at that time no idea about what the abilities of an archer are nor what that red triangle meant what was suddenly on the ground - and seconds later I was dead. Now the tutorial came up, telling me, that I should try to use Agony on one of them, to not have to fight both at the same time, but do them one by one. This is all there, but if people disable the tutorial, they will not get these hints.Edited by Lysette on May 4, 2016 3:07PM0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.
Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.
Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.
In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)
Concidering that we people that do run dungeons are chopped liver to zenimax I stopped paying as soon as the nerf hammer started dropping on everything and anything that was too hard for people like you that apparently needs to whine about content being too hard as soon as you can't 1-shot it with your magicka sorcerer using heavy armor and spamming light bow attacks.....Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on May 4, 2016 3:10PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
I agree with that. I think even you said in one of those threads that you miss old Doshia though
I think there should be a learning curve. Level 3s having faceroll easy content is fine, it will be challenging enough for them as they're just beginning to learn. But as they progress, it should teach them SOMETHING at least. It should show them why you need to interrupt heavy attacks and dodge out of red, at the very least, and it doesn't have to be, like, vMA-level hard, but at least give them some sense of achievement on the way. Heck there's even a thread on forums saying delve bosses actually have mechanics but no one ever sees them because bosses die before they do them...
For instance I remember vet levels at launch. Vet zones were...challenging to say the least. If 3 mobs saw you before you saw them, you basically died more often than not. Do I advocate that level of difficulty? I did l2p back then but there was no enjoyment when every open world mob was that much of a challenge. I didn't like it back then, I still don't think it'd be a good idea now(even though now I would probably be able to faceroll it anyway, but I do remember my frustration as a newb-ish player back then).
However, what most of us were proposing in regards to vet zones was a learning curve. It felt that after you finished Coldharbour you suddenly hit a wall. Enemies were 100 times more strong suddenly. It shouldn't have been that abrupt, that didn't make sense. Vet 1 zone could be about the same in difficulty as Coldharbour, maybe just a BIT harder. Then v2 bit more harder. And so on until in vet 10 zone they could keep the old vet zones' difficulty, since by then most people'd learn how to deal with it and not feel so baffled and desperate anymore.
What they did instead was be silent for MONTHS I think(I mean, people were all over the forums discussing whether this was even intended because it kind of felt like a bug, and if it was intended whether it was subject to change or not, many people left without ever getting any reaction, but ZOS never graced us with their response) then, by the time most old players either got used to it or left they put a giant blanket nerf to all vet zones to where all of a sudden you could solo WBs and dolmens and kill most other mobs with closed eyes.
And it's only gone downhill since then imo. They should've talked to us back then, they should talk to us now, but they don't bother for whatever reason. They should try to find compromises, decisions that, while possibly harder, can really profit the game in the long run...they prefer silence+nerfhammer treatment though.
Well, there is some help in the game, if tutorial mode is enabled. I'll give you an example. I was level 5 and tried to fight 2 archers which were level 8, with a bow. I had at that time no idea about what the abilities of an archer are nor what that red triangle meant what was suddenly on the ground - and minutes later I was dead. Now the tutorial came up, telling me, that I should try to use Agony on one of them, to not have to fight both at the same time, but do them one by one. This is all there, but if people disable the tutorial, they will not get these hints.
Know what I learned about archers and their pals? To take out the archer FIRST.Then worry about the second enemy. I quit dying as much as soon as i started doing this.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.
Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.
Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.
In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)
Concidering that we people that do run dungeons are chopped liver to zenimax I stopped playing as soon as the nerf hammer started dropping on everything and anything that was too hard for people like you that apparently needs to whine about content being too hard as soon as you can't 1-shot it with your magicka sorcerer using heavy armor and spamming light bow attacks.....
So then you are just wasting my time. great thanks. If you dont play anymore then why are you in this thread? smh4 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Thats up to you but you will find yourself lonely. I prefer having lots of friends in the game. I dont mind helping people.
I do help people when I decide that I want to, but I don't want to have to help every single person that comes fresh out of noobland to teach them the basics of the game that they should have learned in the 1-50 content. There is a difference between having content being able to teach you things and it being just downright faceroll. We have the latter in this game unfortunately.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
I understand what you are trying with it - to make them care more about tactics - but you just should watch what newbies do, when they do the first longer quest in Daggerfall - save king Casimir - how many get killed there, because it is labeled for level 4 - a lot get killed there, this would have to be labeled level 7 or so for them, they struggle with it at level 4 and might leave, because they get the impression, I suck, this game is too hard for me.
Yes, I want to make the game help people learn how to play the game instead of letting the people that already know how to play teach people how to do the most basic of things, as that's something anyone that reaches the higher levels should already know about, but with things being so bad at explaining things they come into a vet dungeon, get one shot by things and do basically no damage because they just haven't gotten to learn how the game works.
Yes, overland things should be easy to start off with, but it should gradually increase little by little to ease people into it so that they don't hit a brick wall once they start trying vet dungeons.
In your opinion only. Like I said a LOT of people will never run a vet dungeon. What about them? Your whole premise is that everyone must learn to do vet dungeons. What if I dont give a flip about dungeons? Im just chopped liver even tho I pay the same $15 a month as you do? (You do pay right?)
Concidering that we people that do run dungeons are chopped liver to zenimax I stopped playing as soon as the nerf hammer started dropping on everything and anything that was too hard for people like you that apparently needs to whine about content being too hard as soon as you can't 1-shot it with your magicka sorcerer using heavy armor and spamming light bow attacks.....
So then you are just wasting my time. great thanks. If you dont play anymore then why are you in this thread? smh
Sorry, paying, but yeah, zenimax needs to stop catering to you people that got a 5 second attention span and then whines about every single thing being too hard.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭On a side note why the heck do they limit how many people you can ignore on here?3 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »On a side note why the heck do they limit how many people you can ignore on here?
Because maybe people should start dealing with reality instead of putting their heads in the sand and think everything will be alright, lol.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Such a sociable comment. Not on many Christmas card lists I bet.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
I agree with that. I think even you said in one of those threads that you miss old Doshia though
I think there should be a learning curve. Level 3s having faceroll easy content is fine, it will be challenging enough for them as they're just beginning to learn. But as they progress, it should teach them SOMETHING at least. It should show them why you need to interrupt heavy attacks and dodge out of red, at the very least, and it doesn't have to be, like, vMA-level hard, but at least give them some sense of achievement on the way. Heck there's even a thread on forums saying delve bosses actually have mechanics but no one ever sees them because bosses die before they do them...
For instance I remember vet levels at launch. Vet zones were...challenging to say the least. If 3 mobs saw you before you saw them, you basically died more often than not. Do I advocate that level of difficulty? I did l2p back then but there was no enjoyment when every open world mob was that much of a challenge. I didn't like it back then, I still don't think it'd be a good idea now(even though now I would probably be able to faceroll it anyway, but I do remember my frustration as a newb-ish player back then).
However, what most of us were proposing in regards to vet zones was a learning curve. It felt that after you finished Coldharbour you suddenly hit a wall. Enemies were 100 times more strong suddenly. It shouldn't have been that abrupt, that didn't make sense. Vet 1 zone could be about the same in difficulty as Coldharbour, maybe just a BIT harder. Then v2 bit more harder. And so on until in vet 10 zone they could keep the old vet zones' difficulty, since by then most people'd learn how to deal with it and not feel so baffled and desperate anymore.
What they did instead was be silent for MONTHS I think(I mean, people were all over the forums discussing whether this was even intended because it kind of felt like a bug, and if it was intended whether it was subject to change or not, many people left without ever getting any reaction, but ZOS never graced us with their response) then, by the time most old players either got used to it or left they put a giant blanket nerf to all vet zones to where all of a sudden you could solo WBs and dolmens and kill most other mobs with closed eyes.
And it's only gone downhill since then imo. They should've talked to us back then, they should talk to us now, but they don't bother for whatever reason. They should try to find compromises, decisions that, while possibly harder, can really profit the game in the long run...they prefer silence+nerfhammer treatment though.
Well, there is some help in the game, if tutorial mode is enabled. I'll give you an example. I was level 5 and tried to fight 2 archers which were level 8, with a bow. I had at that time no idea about what the abilities of an archer are nor what that red triangle meant what was suddenly on the ground - and minutes later I was dead. Now the tutorial came up, telling me, that I should try to use Agony on one of them, to not have to fight both at the same time, but do them one by one. This is all there, but if people disable the tutorial, they will not get these hints.
Know what I learned about archers and their pals? To take out the archer FIRST.Then worry about the second enemy. I quit dying as much as soon as i started doing this.
That was my first attempt with a bow at that time, I could have easily take them down using NB skills, but I tried it with a bow. Well I should have used agony, just like the tutorial told me later, that made it much easier.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Such a sociable comment. Not on many Christmas card lists I bet.
Oh, I do help lots of people out, it's just that I don't want to teach people how to do the basics of the game every single time I take on a random person. Which is what we got to do right now as the game is super easy faceroll mode.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Such a sociable comment. Not on many Christmas card lists I bet.
You can kinda tell why he has to pug to do dungeons anyways. I prefer to be kind to my fellow players try and keep them in the game.4 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.
The reason why many people can't do most group content though is because of there being literally nothing even remotely difficult at all and then hit a brick wall when they reach vet dungeons etc. I mean, my friend ran vCoA and one dps was using impulse as a single target spell for a boss. They don't know how to block, dodge etc as the game doesn't teach them that and there's no need for it in normal solo content as nothing can even get close to killing them in it.
There needs to be a higher difficulty in solo content, maybe not in the first few areas, but there needs to be something that can prepare them for group dungeons, not just expect the people that already know what to do to carry them through it.
Its just these two dungeons they are talking about. The rest are fine. So I dont see how your argument holds water to be honest. Just two four man dungeons which people claim are "the most difficult content in the game" are being brough down a notch. I believe the overland difficulty is fine.
Maybe instead of asking ZOS to do everything you could help the new people at least in your guild and help train them on how to block, dodge and all that other stuff. There are a lot of people playing this game who have no wish to ever enter a dungeon. Dont want to worry about having to min/max and just want to play as they wish. Those people get the overland stuff. Its why overland is fairly easy.
Fairly easy? LOL. I can go on a new toon and spam one spell and get through the level 1-50 content without CP and have barely any trouble at all. If I want to be overkill I can start using a combo, but the adds can rarely stand up to even the first attack. People needs something to help them learn from the game though, it shouldn't be up to the players to teach newbies on how to do even the most basic things in the game. That just shows how badly designed the open world content is.
Thats because you have been playing the game for years. They havent. You dont get to dictate what people "need" to do. Everyone plays this game how they want to. A lot like I said could not possibly care less about ever doing a dungeon. Are perfectly happy running around killing skeevers for mats to make gear whatever. If you dont want to take responsibility then stop asking ZOS to hand hold you. Either get off your duff help your fellow players learn or stop whining about them not knowing stuff.
Or I'll just kick people because they don't know anything at all and tell them to blame the people that didn't let zenimax teach people how to play the game.
Thats up to you but you will find yourself lonely. I prefer having lots of friends in the game. I dont mind helping people.
I do help people when I decide that I want to, but I don't want to have to help every single person that comes fresh out of noobland to teach them the basics of the game that they should have learned in the 1-50 content. There is a difference between having content being able to teach you things and it being just downright faceroll. We have the latter in this game unfortunately.
That's just your opinion.
Well,no one says you have to help anyone.Just ignore them and go on playing your game.Others will play the game as they choose.Why get all ruffled becaude someone else doesnt play the game the way you think they should? As to dungeons,
etc,..I'm one of those who could care less about doing dungeons.I do them whenever I feel like it,and mostly alone.
The game isnt really about school and teaching.It's more about just playing it the way you want to.Even if it is just collecting mats and fishing.
It's just a game for the fun of it.Most people dont like all that hair pulling that's going on here.2