Spliffo wrote: »

16k seems reasonable. Magicka ults hit harder than that on live but they cost more not mentioning the guy that killed you would have had 10% more weapon damage for being in stealth and 20% empower from ambush. Again it seems on par with magicka builds now

Yes,

16k is reasonable for a single target ultimate. I would say the cost is probably too low. I know I proc mine ridiculously too often.

As having a pretty good range of stam/mag based characters in ESO, and decent experience with MMO's in general, I go back to class roles.

Nightblade - DPS (Single target)
DragonKnight - Tank/DPS
Sorcerer - DPS (Multi-Target) & Crowd Control
Templar - DPS/Healing

Straying off of these paths can yield some very good results in niche roles, but you're always giving something up in return.

Traditionally, the Nightblade/Rogue/Hunter Class is supposed to hit almost unacceptably hard. The whole objective is to try and burst down the enemy before they can get oriented and retaliate. MOST [I realize some of you tanky NB's out there are an exception] Nightblades are pretty easy to take down. I'm sure this guy's resistance is garbage. If they can't kill you almost immediately, it's pretty much over. They also struggle to sustain against multiple enemies, something templars/sorcs can do very well.

DragonKnights are the closest to a Warrior/Tank class, I suppose, in ESO. The objective should be resistance, armor, wards, mitigating damage and maximizing vitality. This usually comes at the cost of DPS, but if you can't kill them, it becomes a battle of sustainability, to which, most burst-DPS builds will lose.

Sorcerers can hit very hard against multiple targets, and can be great CC if you use them correctly. I don't play them enough to comment in depth.

Templar - DPS/Heals - In my opinion, the most ridiculous class. This thing can self-heal, group heal, DPS, Tank, whatever. Having a templar myself, it's hilarious to keep stupid heals up in group v group action. It's also really obnoxious running into a group of 2-3 templars all with sweeps and heals. They just heal through everything.

Everything is a trade off, DPS vs. Resource Management vs. Survivability/Sustainability. Every class/build has a counter that it can defeat 9 times out of 10, and one that will defeat it 9 times out of 10. That's the whole premise of MMO's. I think too many of you are looking at this too much like an Elder Scrolls game, and not enough like a competitive multi-player game.

You can't have one class that can simply do it all, or you'd have a bunch of carbon copies all running around in the same gear with the same abilities, then victory is just decided by literally whoever has the most champion points, followed by whoever can start mashing buttons first.

I could say sweeps is the most obnoxious skill in the game, because it can crit at 4-5k per strike, multiple targets, plus it heals, and it is spammable. But, I also use it to my advantage when on my templar...

Shield Stacking is one of the most frustrating things to deal with. Nothing more irritating than a Sorc stacking shields kiting a group of 10 around a rock out in Cyrodiil... Then comes the shield breaker set, and F*** you, sorc. But that shield breaker set is really only worthwhile against sorcs, and is on par with mediocrity against anything else..

The fact that I can only Cloak 3 times on my Stam Blade because of my low Magicka still baffles me. Stealth is supposed to be my NB's ally. But I deal with it, it's a trade-off I'm willing to make for the extra weapon damage. I also give up a lot of resistance running all medium armor for the Stam benefits. I die when someone sneezes in my general direction. I have to rely on stupid max stam and regen to dodge roll my way out of any situation.

Most MMO's are developed with group play in mind. Having a well rounded group keeps you sustainable in both PvE and PvP. You need good DPS, Good heals, and CC. Tanks not so much in PvP, but they're still super frustrating when they just won't die, and it buys time for reinforcements.

Everyone runs to the internet to whine whenever they feel something didn't work in their favor. Just accept, some people are going to have builds that can specifically target and annihilate your build, but someone has a build that will wipe the floor with theirs. Every argument ever made against an overpowered class, skill, ability has pretty much just been an argument for [why my class should be the strongest in all instances].

Improvise, adapt, and overcome.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Please. Can we just agree overlol(ad) needs a redesign?

With the way it works adjusting dmg will always result in an underpowered or overpowered ability. Just rework the ability completely.

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Please. Can we just agree overlol(ad) needs a redesign?

With the way it works adjusting dmg will always result in an underpowered or overpowered ability. Just rework the ability completely.

I'd be fine with this, as long as they still let sorcs be viable in PvE. Atm that's their lifesupport, and taking it away will kill them.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

UnyieldingFlame wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I guess it's just a coincidence that every single 'real' Nightblade, namely one that has played a Nightblade since the release of ESO, seems to agree that Incapacitating Strike in its current form on the PTS is overpowered.

This includes people who have been playing a Stamina Nightblade since March 2014.

How can i join the "real nightblades" club? lol

It's easy, just spam cloak, and only cloak. It's kind of like having a vasectomy. I don't even have cloak on my bar. I guess that makes be a fake Nightblade ;-)

Easily the biggest cry baby on the forums, just so you know everyone this Strider_Roshin player spend more times on the forums then playing the game on PS4 and when he does he rage quits effectively in 5 min after dying to another class. Seem like a L2P issue.

Lol that's because I work on an ambulance, and between running emergencies I read the forums. I lol'd at the me dying and rage quitting bit. I don't think I've ever done this in my life, and most of my irritations of other classes stems from playing as them.

Well, at least you're close to a waaaaaambulance then when they actually put NB's in line with the other classes then.

Oh man I hope so. I would love something like reflective scales, overload, or radiant destruction for my class ;-)

And I'd love to be able to finish a fight before it even started on the other classes.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

What's that stupid excuse that magicka sorcs, and Templars like to give? Oh yes, "but it's all we have for DPS! So it's balanced".

Btw dark flare does more damage since it empowers itself. It's like a long distance wrecking blow that debuffs. Wait a minute! Grants empowered, causes major defile? These buffs and debuffs sound strangely familiar...

So, guy who did run uninterrutable WB now complains about not so awesome dark flare which is interuptable, from stamina PoV easily avoidable (because of it's long travel time, obvious and loud sound) also have insane from PvP perspective 1.3 second cast duration.

Stop arguing with this guy, he hasnt undertand yet why skills with a long travel time and/or a cast time aren't that good in PvP, all he is interested in is looking at the numbers in his death recap without thinking about all the ways and time he had to counter it.

And you can't understand basic math. Are you not aware that you can spam these "skills with a long travel time" more than I can dodge roll? Eventually one of us is going to run out of resources, and it isn't going to be the magicka user.

Oh yes please tell me more about how you cant manage to counter (hit: there is not only dodgeroll) long enough to close the gap between somebody "spamming" Darkflare or Overload and you. Because either ways if you're not too much outnumbered once you're in melee range they are easy targets and wont damage you. Sounds like a l2p issue to me.

Dying from incapacitating strike? Sounds like a L2P issue to me. Git gud

Thanks for showing what you're down to when your only argument (there are skills hitting harder) is denied. I don't claim to be the best but after 47 ranks earned for a big part in solo/small groups I think I know my bit when it comes to PvP. You can always check my YT and make your own opinion on this if you wish.

I see so if I echo your words then it's a poor display of character? I'm seeing a pattern here.

It's okay, I'm sure you're quite successful on YT, but it was an unnecessary comment that's
that adds nothing to your argument.

Not really because I still have all my arguments, when you have none and say that dying to incap strike in its pts form (which you've probably never seen the power as you seem to be a console player) is a l2p "git gud" issue without further explanation. I gave mines for darkflare and overload And my yt doesnt add anything to my arguments, but I dont like when people tell me to "git gud" without any valuable reason.

Right now on live it does no more damage than my surprise attack. Now we can finally hit as hard as you can, and you cry OP. Selfishness! How about this for balance, let's make the passive Executioner the equivalent of magicka flood, where slotting an assassination ability increases our max stamina by 8%. Let me guess, that would be OP because it's something magicka has as well.

You should really go back and read again what I wrote a few pages before (and over many posts). I did my best to explain why current cp scaling is balanced for deathstroke and why its OP as it is on PTS, I just can not be arsed anymore repeating the same damn thing to people either with an agenda, either with little comprehension of their class and overall PvP combat mechanics. But well the simple fact that this ultimate was a strength of stamina NB compared to other stamina classes (except DK) should tell you why a 25% (and 35%+ on crits) damage increase is totally not balanced.

So having an ultimate that hits harder than a normal ability isn't balanced. I'm sorry, but you and I are simply not going to agree on this issue. You do realize that a magicka Nightblade has stronger healing, and better resource management than stamina. I think it's more than fair that stamina can do equal (or slightly stronger) damage output.

So you still didnt read the rest. And in no way magicka nb has strong raw healing, their main strength atm is healing ward (that is not a pure heal) but with boneshield stamina gonna be on even grounds on this part. Vigor+rally are much better as pure selfheals than magicka tools. And they already can do nearly equal damage output. Proxy nerf and assassins scourge/killers blade change were enough to give them more single target damage than magicka.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

What's that stupid excuse that magicka sorcs, and Templars like to give? Oh yes, "but it's all we have for DPS! So it's balanced".

Btw dark flare does more damage since it empowers itself. It's like a long distance wrecking blow that debuffs. Wait a minute! Grants empowered, causes major defile? These buffs and debuffs sound strangely familiar...

So, guy who did run uninterrutable WB now complains about not so awesome dark flare which is interuptable, from stamina PoV easily avoidable (because of it's long travel time, obvious and loud sound) also have insane from PvP perspective 1.3 second cast duration.

Stop arguing with this guy, he hasnt undertand yet why skills with a long travel time and/or a cast time aren't that good in PvP, all he is interested in is looking at the numbers in his death recap without thinking about all the ways and time he had to counter it.

And you can't understand basic math. Are you not aware that you can spam these "skills with a long travel time" more than I can dodge roll? Eventually one of us is going to run out of resources, and it isn't going to be the magicka user.

I´ve tried it against a stamblade. 1000 ultimate overload + immovable/detect potions. It was not much of a struggle to survive the whole time until my ulti was depleted.
1 dodgeroll if timed correctly avoids up to 5 projectiles of overload.

It shines against builds with low reg and magica builds without harness. Other than that it´s an Xv1 ability.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

What's that stupid excuse that magicka sorcs, and Templars like to give? Oh yes, "but it's all we have for DPS! So it's balanced".

Btw dark flare does more damage since it empowers itself. It's like a long distance wrecking blow that debuffs. Wait a minute! Grants empowered, causes major defile? These buffs and debuffs sound strangely familiar...

So, guy who did run uninterrutable WB now complains about not so awesome dark flare which is interuptable, from stamina PoV easily avoidable (because of it's long travel time, obvious and loud sound) also have insane from PvP perspective 1.3 second cast duration.

Stop arguing with this guy, he hasnt undertand yet why skills with a long travel time and/or a cast time aren't that good in PvP, all he is interested in is looking at the numbers in his death recap without thinking about all the ways and time he had to counter it.

And you can't understand basic math. Are you not aware that you can spam these "skills with a long travel time" more than I can dodge roll? Eventually one of us is going to run out of resources, and it isn't going to be the magicka user.

Oh yes please tell me more about how you cant manage to counter (hit: there is not only dodgeroll) long enough to close the gap between somebody "spamming" Darkflare or Overload and you. Because either ways if you're not too much outnumbered once you're in melee range they are easy targets and wont damage you. Sounds like a l2p issue to me.

Dying from incapacitating strike? Sounds like a L2P issue to me. Git gud

Thanks for showing what you're down to when your only argument (there are skills hitting harder) is denied. I don't claim to be the best but after 47 ranks earned for a big part in solo/small groups I think I know my bit when it comes to PvP. You can always check my YT and make your own opinion on this if you wish.

I see so if I echo your words then it's a poor display of character? I'm seeing a pattern here.

It's okay, I'm sure you're quite successful on YT, but it was an unnecessary comment that's
that adds nothing to your argument.

Not really because I still have all my arguments, when you have none and say that dying to incap strike in its pts form (which you've probably never seen the power as you seem to be a console player) is a l2p "git gud" issue without further explanation. I gave mines for darkflare and overload And my yt doesnt add anything to my arguments, but I dont like when people tell me to "git gud" without any valuable reason.

Right now on live it does no more damage than my surprise attack. Now we can finally hit as hard as you can, and you cry OP. Selfishness! How about this for balance, let's make the passive Executioner the equivalent of magicka flood, where slotting an assassination ability increases our max stamina by 8%. Let me guess, that would be OP because it's something magicka has as well.

You should really go back and read again what I wrote a few pages before (and over many posts). I did my best to explain why current cp scaling is balanced for deathstroke and why its OP as it is on PTS, I just can not be arsed anymore repeating the same damn thing to people either with an agenda, either with little comprehension of their class and overall PvP combat mechanics. But well the simple fact that this ultimate was a strength of stamina NB compared to other stamina classes (except DK) should tell you why a 25% (and 35%+ on crits) damage increase is totally not balanced.

So having an ultimate that hits harder than a normal ability isn't balanced. I'm sorry, but you and I are simply not going to agree on this issue. You do realize that a magicka Nightblade has stronger healing, and better resource management than stamina. I think it's more than fair that stamina can do equal (or slightly stronger) damage output.

So you still didnt read the rest. And in no way magicka nb has strong raw healing, their main strength atm is healing ward (that is not a pure heal) but with boneshield stamina gonna be on even grounds on this part. Vigor+rally are much better as pure selfheals than magicka tools. And they already can do nearly equal damage output. Proxy nerf and assassins scourge/killers blade change were enough to give them more single target damage than magicka.

Bone shield is not even close to being as effective as healing ward. It's not that strong, and stamina doesn't quite have the sustain to use it effectively in PvP. No, were not on even ground.

Ofc boneshield alone isnt that strong. But combine it with rally; vigor and dodgeroll and here.. well its at least as good (I would argue better but w/e) than healing ward+cloak+magicka hots. Also if you spec for damage on a magicka build (not full damage, but good damages) you cant spam healing ward either. Again you look at one skill alone without thinking of every synergies its got with the other skills and combat mechanics. Thats how they thought incap and unstable flame scaling on mighty would be a good idea but if you look at the big picture neither of those will be balanced.

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

Wait, what!? Dark flare does wayyyy more damage than snipe lmfao. A stealthed and empowered snipe from max range hits maybe a little less than a properly empowered point blank to max range dark flare. Death Stroke is dodge-able, the effects are purged with one button, and it's easily blocked and avoided. It also has the shortest range of any ultimate in the game. It's not like nightblades are chucking shock incaps at you from 36 meters away with a built in third bar and execute passive. It's a single target, single use ultimate, let's be reasonable people. Jeez, while the QQ is strong why don't we talk about radiant and scales too? Every class has something, just because it ended up on your recap doesn't mean it's something you needed to go on a forums crusade about.

The QQ is real.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

Wait, what!? Dark flare does wayyyy more damage than snipe lmfao. A stealthed and empowered snipe from max range hits maybe a little less than a properly empowered point blank to max range dark flare.

Oh hey Attacko, welcome to the conversation lol. Btw I never did thank you for helping out my buddy EvolJawz. He said good things about you.

Yeah no problem, just reading over this and coming from someone who has played any and all of these classes at max damage, I can't believe the amount of QQ I'm seeing over this ultimate. Nightblades are supposed to hit hard, especially from stealth, and if you are running around with low-mediocre health, low mitigation/impen, you should absolutely expect to be ganked like this! Next time, consider not running around in a table cloth if you don't want this to happen @OP.

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Bone shield is not even close to being as effective as healing ward. It's not that strong, and stamina doesn't quite have the sustain to use it effectively in PvP. No, were not on even ground.

Just a personal question: Where would you get the idea of stamina builds lacking sustain compared to magica ones?

I'll save him some time.
1. Magicka builds use a resource that is separate from cc breaking/blocking/rolling
Yes, this does have some disadvantages concerning a very finite amount of these actions may be performed by magicka users, but it allows them to also use this pool for only these actions
2. Stamina recovery is halted by almost everything you do cc breaking/blocking/rolling
In addition to the added regen needed to sustain these actions on the same resource as their dps, whenever a stamina user has to do any of these, their recovery is completely stopped due to the required block to perform them. This means that almost half the time, you do not even receive regen ticks.
3. Elemental Drain and Force Siphon
I'm guessing I don't need to tell you why this makes sustaining magicka resources so much easier

5 of my 7 characters are magic based, so don't mistake this for some kind of stamina bias, it's just the truth.

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback! Just a heads up that we’re continuing to keep an eye on the effectiveness of this ability, and Death Stroke in general. 50 ultimate is definitely a fantastic deal for the burst potential this ability affords. We will continue to evaluate Death Stroke's strength during this testing cycle.

While you're at, make sure you evaluate the damage potential of overload, dark flare, and radiant destruction.

Dark flare is 1.3 sec interuptable cast, how it get here? Why you also didn't mention snipe which deals same damage and have less cast time?

What's that stupid excuse that magicka sorcs, and Templars like to give? Oh yes, "but it's all we have for DPS! So it's balanced".

Btw dark flare does more damage since it empowers itself. It's like a long distance wrecking blow that debuffs. Wait a minute! Grants empowered, causes major defile? These buffs and debuffs sound strangely familiar...

So, guy who did run uninterrutable WB now complains about not so awesome dark flare which is interuptable, from stamina PoV easily avoidable (because of it's long travel time, obvious and loud sound) also have insane from PvP perspective 1.3 second cast duration.

Stop arguing with this guy, he hasnt undertand yet why skills with a long travel time and/or a cast time aren't that good in PvP, all he is interested in is looking at the numbers in his death recap without thinking about all the ways and time he had to counter it.

And you can't understand basic math. Are you not aware that you can spam these "skills with a long travel time" more than I can dodge roll? Eventually one of us is going to run out of resources, and it isn't going to be the magicka user.

I´ve tried it against a stamblade. 1000 ultimate overload + immovable/detect potions. It was not much of a struggle to survive the whole time until my ulti was depleted.
1 dodgeroll if timed correctly avoids up to 5 projectiles of overload.

It shines against builds with low reg and magica builds without harness. Other than that it´s an Xv1 ability.

I'm going to debunk this too, a dodge roll definitely, definitely doesn't avoid five whole overloads, you have the invincibility frames for two, maybe three. If you are really still spamming overloads on them after they rolled then you are already in the wrong, /facepalm. A quick cc like streak that ignores these immunities would guarantee you an easy shot too, seriously though, as a sorcerer you should have zero problems killing one nightblade, you are literally their rock-paper-scissors counter.

I wasn't blocking, that's for sure. My physical resistance is always around 10K (light armor), and my CP passive to reduce physical damage is around 11%, as is my passive to reduce critical damage. I wasn't wearing any Impenetrable.

Once again, how is a 16k critical hit (cause by an Ultimate)(buffed by Empower) against a player in 7/7 Light Armor with Zero Impen and 11% in Hardy a problem?

If the NB offender is running a high-regen build, sure that's hefty damage, but until that player comes forward we won't know.