Incap Strike

Sharee

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Re: stun on incap.

NB's have fear. Fear is

1, unblockable
2, not breaking on subsequent damage
3, a *** to break out of, virtually guaranteeing next hit won't be blocked/rolled.

Why on earth would anyone NOT use fear on a CC-vulnerable opponent before hitting him with an ultimate is beyond me. Stun on incap is a total non-factor, IMHO.

Because if you hit them with fear => incap the next hit is most likely to be dodged.

And without the fear your next hit is likely to get blocked.

I'm playing a heavy armor magicka DK. When i have a glass cannon NB wailing on me, i simply cannot afford to drop block - their damage output is insane with just surprise attack weave spam, heavy armor or not. I have to block through their initial burst, and only drop block to regen stamina while the enemy is CC-ed in one way or another.

Derra wrote: »

If you directly attack them with incap => assassins scourge they get hit for a 20% buffed scourge that is absolutely not avoidable.

If he directly attacks me with that, then he wasted his ult to scratch the paint off my shield and the scourge is likely to get reflected back into his face.

It's all about timing, yes when dealing with perma blockers you have to fear.

But most people aren't expecting nb's the cc you with their ult. If you get the timing right you can deal some nasty dmg with incap + relentless focus.

Maybe so, but that's hardly the fault of the ult, is it.

A heavy armor DK is about the only occasion someone can affort to block for extended periods of time (and that´s also the only case where you have to fear at all in this combo). No other build can reliably counter incap (you don´t know when it´s coming) with blocking - even against you build i´d open with incap on block just for the healdebuff and dmg buff into fear => assassins will.

The fear just isn´t needed against other non tank builds anymore.

You do not need to block for extended periods of time, only long enough to survive the initial barrage, CC the NB, and start putting pressure on him. I am doing the same with my heavy templar, so it's not a DK exclusive.

After DB goes live, you won't even need heavy armor to do that, since the block cost reduction (only reason to wear heavy today) is moved to a trait that any armor class can have.

Only setups that are built as glass cannons are vulnerable to incap, and it's stun. And that means incap isn't universally overpowered like some are claiming, it just counters certain playstyles.

Derra

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Re: stun on incap.

NB's have fear. Fear is

1, unblockable
2, not breaking on subsequent damage
3, a *** to break out of, virtually guaranteeing next hit won't be blocked/rolled.

Why on earth would anyone NOT use fear on a CC-vulnerable opponent before hitting him with an ultimate is beyond me. Stun on incap is a total non-factor, IMHO.

Because if you hit them with fear => incap the next hit is most likely to be dodged.

And without the fear your next hit is likely to get blocked.

I'm playing a heavy armor magicka DK. When i have a glass cannon NB wailing on me, i simply cannot afford to drop block - their damage output is insane with just surprise attack weave spam, heavy armor or not. I have to block through their initial burst, and only drop block to regen stamina while the enemy is CC-ed in one way or another.

Derra wrote: »

If you directly attack them with incap => assassins scourge they get hit for a 20% buffed scourge that is absolutely not avoidable.

If he directly attacks me with that, then he wasted his ult to scratch the paint off my shield and the scourge is likely to get reflected back into his face.

It's all about timing, yes when dealing with perma blockers you have to fear.

But most people aren't expecting nb's the cc you with their ult. If you get the timing right you can deal some nasty dmg with incap + relentless focus.

Maybe so, but that's hardly the fault of the ult, is it.

A heavy armor DK is about the only occasion someone can affort to block for extended periods of time (and that´s also the only case where you have to fear at all in this combo). No other build can reliably counter incap (you don´t know when it´s coming) with blocking - even against you build i´d open with incap on block just for the healdebuff and dmg buff into fear => assassins will.

The fear just isn´t needed against other non tank builds anymore.

You do not need to block for extended periods of time, only long enough to survive the initial barrage, CC the NB, and start putting pressure on him. I am doing the same with my heavy templar, so it's not a DK exclusive.

After DB goes live, you won't even need heavy armor to do that, since the block cost reduction (only reason to wear heavy today) is moved to a trait that any armor class can have.

Only setups that are built as glass cannons are vulnerable to incap, and it's stun. And that means incap isn't universally overpowered like some are claiming, it just counters certain playstyles.

It means that you´re going to block 100% of the time when the NB is offensive. Which i find highly unlikely tbh if you´re not a permablocking build.
It´s not like NB jumps you - you survive initial burst and the fight is over.

Sharee

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Re: stun on incap.

NB's have fear. Fear is

1, unblockable
2, not breaking on subsequent damage
3, a *** to break out of, virtually guaranteeing next hit won't be blocked/rolled.

Why on earth would anyone NOT use fear on a CC-vulnerable opponent before hitting him with an ultimate is beyond me. Stun on incap is a total non-factor, IMHO.

Because if you hit them with fear => incap the next hit is most likely to be dodged.

And without the fear your next hit is likely to get blocked.

I'm playing a heavy armor magicka DK. When i have a glass cannon NB wailing on me, i simply cannot afford to drop block - their damage output is insane with just surprise attack weave spam, heavy armor or not. I have to block through their initial burst, and only drop block to regen stamina while the enemy is CC-ed in one way or another.

Derra wrote: »

If you directly attack them with incap => assassins scourge they get hit for a 20% buffed scourge that is absolutely not avoidable.

If he directly attacks me with that, then he wasted his ult to scratch the paint off my shield and the scourge is likely to get reflected back into his face.

It's all about timing, yes when dealing with perma blockers you have to fear.

But most people aren't expecting nb's the cc you with their ult. If you get the timing right you can deal some nasty dmg with incap + relentless focus.

Maybe so, but that's hardly the fault of the ult, is it.

A heavy armor DK is about the only occasion someone can affort to block for extended periods of time (and that´s also the only case where you have to fear at all in this combo). No other build can reliably counter incap (you don´t know when it´s coming) with blocking - even against you build i´d open with incap on block just for the healdebuff and dmg buff into fear => assassins will.

The fear just isn´t needed against other non tank builds anymore.

You do not need to block for extended periods of time, only long enough to survive the initial barrage, CC the NB, and start putting pressure on him. I am doing the same with my heavy templar, so it's not a DK exclusive.

After DB goes live, you won't even need heavy armor to do that, since the block cost reduction (only reason to wear heavy today) is moved to a trait that any armor class can have.

Only setups that are built as glass cannons are vulnerable to incap, and it's stun. And that means incap isn't universally overpowered like some are claiming, it just counters certain playstyles.

It means that you´re going to block 100% of the time when the NB is offensive. Which i find highly unlikely tbh if you´re not a permablocking build.

The trick is to make sure the NB is only on the offensive for a short while after the fight starts.

Derra wrote: »

It´s not like NB jumps you - you survive initial burst and the fight is over.

Actually most fights are like that. If i do not die within the first few seconds then i'm either going to win or the NB manages to run away. Keeping him dotted up and dropping an eruption on him everytime he tries to cloak pretty much keeps him too busy to continue the attack. Only thing that used to kill me was running out of stam for fear breaks, but no so much since i switched to arena set.

Derra

I guess then we´re just arguing over a different quality of the NB opponent.

I view it as an excellent on demand burst option for fights longer than 10s. If the fight is decided within 10s one player vastly outdid the other anyways.
On gank builds that rely on one burst combo execute success or fail kind of gameplay i agree it´s not much of any relevance if the ability stuns or not.

Septimus_Magna

The 6 second heal debuff might sound short but it only takes 17 seconds to regen 50 ult and cast it again.

This means a 35% uptime without additional ult gain.

If you factor in potions and kills the uptime will be even higher.

I think the dmg and additional effects are fine if it would cost something like 70 ultimate.

BohnT

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think the dmg and additional effects are fine if it would cost something like 70 ultimate.

This would kill incap as everyone would switch to Dawnbreaker. I see what you want to do with the ability but a 40% cost increase for 25% more damage (in comparison to soul harvest) is too much if you consider that soul harvest is a lot faster up again in 1vX. And for 30 Ult more you can have an AoE Stun which has a built in DoT+3% Weapon dmg

My advice would be to increase it to 60 Ult or change the heal debuff to a self heal (50% of damage done)

DDuke

Soul Harvest/Incapacitate is already looked down upon when it comes to PvE DPS - any change made to this ability should buff the PvE DPS potential of the ultimate instead of nerfing it even more.


I still think the most elegant solution would be removing the CC & adding a damage over time effect instead, or simply increasing the duration of that +20% damage.

bowmanz607

There all you go. Damage reduced.

blur

People need to whine about something...
Btw, Concealed/Surprise and Incap are all being nerfed before the DB launch. Stop whining about nightblades when perma dodge and zergs ruin pvp.

SanTii.92

Problem is Soul Harvest's ult regen is just too strong to pass for a 25% increase dmge from the disease scaling component, even more so with such a strong replacement for pvp like Smiting, and further more now with the dmge reduction. There is no appropriate situation for Incap now, which is a shame cause it's a pretty fun ability.

I think the Cc component should be stripped out entirely and replace it for some kind buff to pve dmge, something to get it somewhat closer to the ult regen.

Edziu

bowmanz607 wrote: »

There all you go. Damage reduced.

to little, need more damage reduce...then just conceled and SA will hit hard or harder as this ulti (or just this ulti damge will be so weak to hit like normal spammable dps skill)