Incap Strike

Joy_Division

Ashtaris wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derailing the topic talking about Overload and Sorc CCs isn't making a compelling case that a 50 cost ultimate should do that much damage, stun, and heal debuff.

I guess you missed those dozen or so rescent threads about the Radiant Destruction being too OP'd?

No, I didn't. In fact in just about all of those threads I made it a point to highlight what were misleading comparisons, particularly those made by people who compared RD, a channeled skill that is not strictly an execute, to skills like endless fury. Which is why I find the comparison of Incapacitating Strike to Overload problematic and frustrating.

This is another tangent as the topic is about Incapacitating Strike and not RD. There have been plenty of threads about RD and you are free to make another if you feel ZoS has not adequately addressed the performance of that skill in this update.

I am hardly alone in this thread with the belief that the high damage, stun, and heal debuff all in the same 50 cost ultimate and would like to see discussion on that, not Overload or Encase. I understand comparisons are helpful for analysis, but at least the comparison should be to ultimates with similar mechanics. Overload is a ranged ultimate that just does damage and has a slow travel time that is very easily defended against in a variety of ways. Incapacitating Strike is a burst melee ultimate with strong accompanying debuffs most often used in combination of synergistic skills that is an instant cast. The two could not be more different. Take Flight and Dawnbreaker, although AOE, are more apt comparisons

PainfulFAFA

Ashtaris wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derailing the topic talking about Overload and Sorc CCs isn't making a compelling case that a 50 cost ultimate should do that much damage, stun, and heal debuff.

I guess you missed those dozen or so rescent threads about the Radiant Destruction being too OP'd?

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

susmitds

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

When magblades can do the same, it is not OP. Suddenly when it becomes an ultimate for stamblades, it is OP.
Just WOW.
The stun is avoidable with block, dodge, etc.

With Camo Hunter now rendered useless, Gankblades needed a solid follow up attack to burst down enemies and I believe Incap. Strike is going to do that role now.

Strider_Roshin

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derailing the topic talking about Overload and Sorc CCs isn't making a compelling case that a 50 cost ultimate should do that much damage, stun, and heal debuff.

I guess you missed those dozen or so rescent threads about the Radiant Destruction being too OP'd?

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

Getting hit by incapacitating strike is a L2P issue. I dodge this move all the time, and unless I CC my opponent first, they dodge mine. Therefore the CC this ability has is quite useless. Personally I'd be happy if they took it off, just to give magicka players one less thing to whine about.

Saturn

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

You can hit players with the werewolf Howl of Agony for 16k when it crits, that doesn't cost any ultimate at all.

Sugaroverdose

susmitds wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

When magblades can do the same, it is not OP. Suddenly when it becomes an ultimate for stamblades, it is OP.
Just WOW.
The stun is avoidable with block, dodge, etc.

With Camo Hunter now rendered useless, Gankblades needed a solid follow up attack to burst down enemies and I believe Incap. Strike is going to do that role now.

Add mass hysteria in rotation between ambush and incap and it's unavoidable, and empower isn't spended before incap goes off. It's a little harder to push 3 buttons for instant kill instead of 2, but i think everyone can learn it.

Saturn wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

You can hit players with the werewolf Howl of Agony for 16k when it crits, that doesn't cost any ultimate at all.

didn't seen ever such damage from howl, maximum which i had meet is 10k crit while i had small 800 critresist

PainfulFAFA

Saturn wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

You can hit players with the werewolf Howl of Agony for 16k when it crits, that doesn't cost any ultimate at all.

Lol it costs 250+ ultimate to be able to spam that many times before youre out lol...

susmitds wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

When magblades can do the same, it is not OP. Suddenly when it becomes an ultimate for stamblades, it is OP.
Just WOW.
The stun is avoidable with block, dodge, etc.

With Camo Hunter now rendered useless, Gankblades needed a solid follow up attack to burst down enemies and I believe Incap. Strike is going to do that role now.

How many threads were made showcasing mageblades soul tether proxi double dipping cheese? For weeks, there were rants about mageblades and how stupid op it was. So what did everyone do? Re-roll mageblade. Stam NB will be better than mageblades thanks to fighters guild changes. They will be the next cheese. Any good player can see how something as simple as a Ambush > Fear > Incap strike is going to be absolute cheese.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derailing the topic talking about Overload and Sorc CCs isn't making a compelling case that a 50 cost ultimate should do that much damage, stun, and heal debuff.

I guess you missed those dozen or so rescent threads about the Radiant Destruction being too OP'd?

Lol if ppl are still QQing about RD being OP, thats srsly a l2p issue.

A 50 ult, disease, heal debuff, 100% stun is not a l2p issue. Every good player sees how this Incap strike is fked up and op. Super easy to animation cancel and follow up with a surprise att/heavy att/any other skill.

Getting hit by incapacitating strike is a L2P issue. I dodge this move all the time, and unless I CC my opponent first, they dodge mine. Therefore the CC this ability has is quite useless. Personally I'd be happy if they took it off, just to give magicka players one less thing to whine about.

This rant is coming from somebody who has played any and every playstyle. I currently main a stam sorc due to how easy every other stam class is. I know what NBs can do in between a gapcloser and that incap strike. If i can make my enemies unable to avoid it, so can others.

Strider_Roshin

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

didn't seen ever such damage from howl, maximum which i had meet is 10k crit while i had small 800 critresist

And I have never gotten hit by a 7200 ambush before, but this guy did. The hardest I've ever gotten hit by an ambush was for 4k. This guy who got hit by the "OP Incap Strike" got hit for 7200. We are literally taking the scenario of a high burst crit build ganking someone with pathetic defense and labeling it as the norm. Against anyone that was properly geared for PvP, this guy would have hit them for around 9k.

Sugaroverdose

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

didn't seen ever such damage from howl, maximum which i had meet is 10k crit while i had small 800 critresist

And I have never gotten hit by a 7200 ambush before, but this guy did. The hardest I've ever gotten hit by an ambush was for 4k. This guy who got hit by the "OP Incap Strike" got hit for 7200. We are literally taking the scenario of a high burst crit build ganking someone with pathetic defense and labeling it as the norm. Against anyone that was properly geared for PvP, this guy would have hit them for around 9k.

I did get 6.4k on heavyplar with 1779 critresist, 19800 physresist and something like 40 points in physical damage reduction, so this image isn't far from truth which my build may meet.

bowmanz607

So people think this ult does too much for too little of cost. Let's throw out the fact that the picture supplied is not an actual gauge to the practical application of the ability, but a worst case scenario which is likely a LA user getting ganged from a glass cannon from behind.

Let's compare to other ults real quick.
Sorc- atro is an aoe that sticks around for awhile and also gives the benefits associated with having a pet active. Negate completely renders skill inoperable, is an aoe, and either heals or does damage. Overload gives a third bar, is spammable, and stacks ult for more spamming plus hits like a truck and is ranged single target.

Dk- standard is an aoe, which reduces healing of anyone in it. Also either increases and decreases damage or can be moved. Leap, aoe damage, knockback, gives back resources and either does increased damage or gives a shield. Armor-, provides a group shield that rivals barrier or reduces resistance to 0.

Temp- sweep is aoe and either provides reduced damage with more targets hit or increased damage. (This does need a buff). Nova is aoe damage that has a very strong synergy, reduces damage, and either snares or does more damage. Forget name, but the Templar heal which on top of providing god mode for the duration is an aoe heal that either reduces damage or increases duration.

Nb- tether, aoe damage, stun, with powerful synergy and healing or massive heals. Darkness, has strong synergy and reduces damage to all and either dot damage or reduced caster damage.

World- single target range massive dot damage that snares.

Fighters- aoe instant and dot damage which does 20% more against undead and does either increased damage or gives more weapon damage. Plus gives weapon damage just for slotting a fighters ability.

Mage- aoe instant and dot damage which can knockback or restore ult.

Vamp- aoe dot damage that heals or turns you invisible

Ww- you transform into a powerful Ww that gains a whOle new skill bar with various highly effective skills.

Now let's look at death stroke. Single target melee damage. Either increased ult gain or a stun and decreased healing and increased damage for 6 sec.

So, death stoke is one of 3 single target ults. The only one that requires melee range which is more dangerous. It can not be spammed like overload nor does it provide a third bar. The ability does not effect more than one target ally or enemy unlike most of the other ults. It has no synergy.

People keep talking about how this ability does to much. What? Really? Compared to others it does leso at worSt the sam amount of effects. Not to mention, most players are going to stun cc their opponent before using this to gurantee a hit, so the stun on this ability is really irrelevant.

People keeping hammering on about the damage for one morph but not the other? I really don't care what people claim, soul harvest does just as much damage and can be used nearly twice as often because of the ult gain. Additionally it should be the highest hitting single target ability. All other besides 3 do aoe damage. None of them require melee range and one of them is spammable.

The low cost makes sense compared to aoe ults because it effects a single target. Compared to the other single target abilities it is only one that needs to be in danger in melee range, is not a dot, can not access another skill bar and can not be spammed.

Most of your arguments are based on this picture or similar stats. These are min/max gang builds hitting unexpecting people likely with low resistance. Heck, you guys remember the power of syphers soul tether in his gang setup? And that was an aoe. How about those 15 or 16k leaps? How about those 15k overloads? How about those 15k meteors? How about those 15k dawn breakera? Yes all of those are possible. They can get even higher with min/max gank builds to. This damage is easy to counter with impen, shields, mage light, health, resistance, general situational awareness, occasional detect pots in heavy traffic areas where gabbing occurs, or even taking the long route around to avoid ganks. Failure to adapt to a well known and utilized playstyle which is very prevent in this game is no fault of one ability.

This combo has been utilized in the game since beta. Has been effective on every patch. Why now? Let's not forget that there are numerous one shot combos in this game available to all classes. Every been hit by a Dk heavy attack from stealth? What about snipe? Been hit with a wb from stealth yet? Or how about Templar one shot heals?

Point is, ult is fine. It does no more or no less when compared to other ults.

Sugaroverdose

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

bowmanz607

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

Sugaroverdose

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

What empower does dk has?
They'll have to run WB to get empower from 2h and loose only one reliable cc? funny.

Jaronking

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

WB still gives the Empower just not the KnockBack.So they still have access to a Empower just not a Alley Hoop anymore .

bowmanz607

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

What empower does dk has?
They'll have to run WB to get empower from 2h and loose only one reliable cc? funny.

empowering chains

ManDraKE

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

What empower does dk has?
They'll have to run WB to get empower from 2h and loose only one reliable cc? funny.

By reliable CC you mean a DPS+CC+Empower in one skill right? because nighblades have to run ambush for empower, fear for CC (magika based), and surprise attack for DPS, you were doing those 3 things with just 1 skill: WB (DPS+Empower+CC).

You can use entropy for empower your attacks, is really cheap.

bowmanz607

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

What empower does dk has?
They'll have to run WB to get empower from 2h and loose only one reliable cc? funny.

also, you have petrify for a cc. No WB is not the one stop shop anymore.

Sugaroverdose

Jaronking wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

WB still gives the Empower just not the KnockBack.So they still have access to a Empower just not a Alley Hoop anymore .

And this completely breaks OP factor for WB+Leap, it was so powerful only because it was uncountable.

ManDraKE wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

You will not really meet much 15k leaps in DB just because stamDK has lost they're way to empower it. Ambush+Incap Strike on PST is WB+Leap on Live. But with all other gamebreakinig changes i should agree that this isn't most horrific part of DB.

dk have empowering in their class and can still get from two hand

What empower does dk has?
They'll have to run WB to get empower from 2h and loose only one reliable cc? funny.

By reliable CC you mean a DPS+CC+Empower in one skill right? because nighblades have to run ambush for empower, fear for CC (magika based), and surprise attack for DPS, you were doing those 3 things with just 1 skill: WB (DPS+Empower+CC).

You can use entropy for empower your attacks, is really cheap.

I don't play in stamina at all for this moment, but Ambush+Hysteria+Incap strike can be placed almost in one moment. Entropy is cheap but it's unusable if you want to make uncountable combo, magelight will be better, but also it cost a lot for stamina builds. Fact is DK had WB(CC+Empower)+Leap(Cannot be evaded just because you are in mid-air and in mid-breakfree animation), now it's barely possible.
Meanwhile for nightblades ambush+incap strike will work in 90% of times without requiring them to use mass hysteria, which means that incap strike will be boosted by hide bonus and empower at the same time and target will be in cc after he get hit by this combo train.

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Acutally I think incap should be left alone, i'm kind of worried about this ongoing thread about incap. I understand that 10k cheap ult is a baddass ability but then again you can't really compare it to most of the ability you guys are talking about.

Ex: My Leap hardly does over 10k domage... yep but Leap is area effect and does stun as well... may not be as good as one hard 15k hit but that's only single target.

Ex: Ice Commet, same thing also does a general stun if the dude isn't blocking it and domage goes on for more then 16k if you don't move.

Ex: Flawless Dawnbreak...

and the list goes on. I do understand that this specific nightblade ultimate will become an issue but you do have to remember that this ult is one of the rare single target, one time exclusive dps ability. If you guys play in small or large scale group you will have to admit that you rather have a nightblade using Dawnbreaker then incap, or have a DK with Leap.

I mean it is normal but still I don't believe incap is such a pain

Yeah overall I find most Ultimates in this game are pretty balanced. The only gripes I have in the game is how ridiculously powerful a spammable ultimate like overload is. I think meteor should be dodge-able, and bats is ridiculously strong considering it's AoE range, heal, and the fact that you can still attack/heal while it's active.

With Overload being the only thing keeping sorcs competitive in PvE I'd say it's balanced until they give sorcs decent damage spells viable in PvE other than Overload.

It's not balanced, and in order for a sorc wants to get into the trial guild I'm in, they can't use overload in the DPS test, and there are plenty of sorcs in my guild. The issue isn't the sorcs lack of DPS, it's your dependence on that ultimate. It's too good for how cheap, and spammable it is.

Haven´t heared about sorcs being wanted for the new trial tbh bc the fights are too long for overload to be a vaible ultimate and sorc DPS without overload are not competetive when compared to a magblade if we´re looking at ranged magica dps.

But i could be wrong.

I hate overload personally and would gladly trade it for something like incap/soulharvest.


I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

susmitds

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

Might not be concidered bad by the devs, but the majority of players I've run across in pretty much every MMO that got a class with that kind of gameplay hates gankers. Wonder why....

Septimus_Magna

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Comparing Incap to Overload, really? These two skills could not be more different.

If someone want to Overload he has to toggle it on and shoot light attacks at his target. With overload toggles on the caster cannot use weapon skills which means no healing for sorcs. The overload attacks also travel relative slowly and can be countered by litterally everything that mitigates/avoids dmg.

Incap strike can be weaved into any combo plus it can be used from stealth which makes all the difference. After the hard hit is also stuns the target which gives plenty oppertunity to execute.

Fear also prevent players from blocking or dodging it because the time it takes to break-free from that is longer than with other CCs.

If you want to compare Incap to an ulti compare it to Dragon Leap which costs nearly 3x as much.

You make it sound like it's difficult. CC then spam overload. 2 hits and they're done. You're also not defenseless, try popping on a shield. You can dodge both moves, but only one of them you can try again immediately afterwards. Also you can spam overload 46 times in a row. I can dodge roll 6 times in a row. Also take flight (the morph everyone uses) costs 110, incapacitating strike costs 50. More like twice as much rather than three times as much. Take flight is also an AoE knock down (like Dawnbreaker of smiting), except it has a range of 28 meters.

Its not like you gonna surprise someone with overload, the time it takes to active and shoot gives the target enough time to reposistion and LoS. If you set up a burst the sorcs always needs to swap to his resto staff bar.

Everyone calls overload OP in cyrodiil but I havent been killed by overload in ages. I dont know if its different per camgaign or server but on Trueflame EU most sorcs use other ultimates.

Dragonleap is a strong ultimate on stam DKs (when its working) but you can often block it because you clearly see it coming from a distance. You wont see Incap strike coming because they attack is much quicker.

susmitds

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

Might not be concidered bad by the devs, but the majority of players I've run across in pretty much every MMO that got a class with that kind of gameplay hates gankers. Wonder why....

That is because a part of the players are unable to counter gankers. It is pretty similar to the hatred campers/lurkers get in MP FPS games, who basically do the same thing, take people by surprise.
It is the fact that some gamers want challenge but yet hate being taken by surprise. It is not hard to counter gankers if you are ready to go out of your way to do it.
My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.
So technically if you can just get a single good hit, I will be finished. But most players, even some emperors, try to escape or go defensive on stealth hits but that will just them killed.
The first thing, you should do on being ganked, is to counter hard and try to CC, even before you try to heal. Most players, who do this destroy gankers, including mine, given almost all gankers are extreme glass cannons.
But there are always some players who try top out heal gankers, which is ridiculous, given the gankers DPS stats, and then will go complain how gankers are spoiling their fun, instead to trying to spend time learning to counter it.

Strider_Roshin

susmitds wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

Might not be concidered bad by the devs, but the majority of players I've run across in pretty much every MMO that got a class with that kind of gameplay hates gankers. Wonder why....

That is because a part of the players are unable to counter gankers. It is pretty similar to the hatred campers/lurkers get in MP FPS games, who basically do the same thing, take people by surprise.
It is the fact that some gamers want challenge but yet hate being taken by surprise. It is not hard to counter gankers if you are ready to go out of your way to do it.
My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.
So technically if you can just get a single good hit, I will be finished. But most players, even some emperors, try to escape or go defensive on stealth hits but that will just them killed.
The first thing, you should do on being ganked, is to counter hard and try to CC, even before you try to heal. Most players, who do this destroy gankers, including mine, given almost all gankers are extreme glass cannons.
But there are always some players who try top out heal gankers, which is ridiculous, given the gankers DPS stats, and then will go complain how gankers are spoiling their fun, instead to trying to spend time learning to counter it.

I remember a time when this stam Nightblade tried to gank me. I immediately CC broke the stun from surprise attack, used mass hysteria, popped vigor, marked him, then used the guffaw emote before murdering him. He then told me that I was the only person that has ever done that.

bronski

susmitds wrote: »

My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.

12k health? in cyro? i think i have 10k naked outisde. also if you think that every ganker is one shot away from being dead, or that he's going to run away if the initial burst fails to kill you, we have had very different experiences.

susmitds

bronski wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.

12k health? in cyro? i think i have 10k naked outisde. also if you think that every ganker is one shot away from being dead, or that he's going to run away if the initial burst fails to kill you, we have had very different experiences.

Well, I never said gankers run away though. It is possible to continue an extended burst as long you can keep the pressure on. But yeah, most gankers are very glass-cannoney. Maybe not one shot, but certainly within 2 strong hit category. That be said, several of them run defenses of some sort or the other, so it might not be easy to get these hits.

Derra

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

How does ganking promote zerging?

When Mr. average joe tries to reach his friends at random keep b riding from random keep a and the game supports a playstyle where the average joe can get attacked without a chance to fight back he won´t do that journey alone too often.

It´s the same for players not interested in sneak playstyle searching for smaller fights. If ganking is strong enough to not allow ppl to actually fight back (which happens to be the case in eso) ppl will run with enough other people to be safe because dying without a chance isn´t fun.

If you don´t want to get slaughtered stick with your friends.

Also i did not say the devs consider ganking bad. It´s quite obvious they don´t. But it´s not good for pvp to have a stealth system without drawbacks for anyone like eso does imo.
A competent gank in eso is almost 100% failsafe. If you opponent has time to react you picked the wrong target.
Main problem with the stealth system is the ability to remain hidden for infinite amount of time. Imho crouch should drain resources permanently regardless of movement.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

Might not be concidered bad by the devs, but the majority of players I've run across in pretty much every MMO that got a class with that kind of gameplay hates gankers. Wonder why....

That is because a part of the players are unable to counter gankers. It is pretty similar to the hatred campers/lurkers get in MP FPS games, who basically do the same thing, take people by surprise.
It is the fact that some gamers want challenge but yet hate being taken by surprise. It is not hard to counter gankers if you are ready to go out of your way to do it.
My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.
So technically if you can just get a single good hit, I will be finished. But most players, even some emperors, try to escape or go defensive on stealth hits but that will just them killed.
The first thing, you should do on being ganked, is to counter hard and try to CC, even before you try to heal. Most players, who do this destroy gankers, including mine, given almost all gankers are extreme glass cannons.
But there are always some players who try top out heal gankers, which is ridiculous, given the gankers DPS stats, and then will go complain how gankers are spoiling their fun, instead to trying to spend time learning to counter it.

Most of the time though people will not be able to break CC before they're dead because of lag/ping/etc just because of the server being far away from where they live/ the server is bad etc. So yeah, ganking is by far the easiest and safest playstyle for people that just wants easy mode and don't want to learn how to actually play the game instead of looking for easy ganks.....

I will never see any ganker as a good player, they're only parasites in MMO's that really should be a discouraged playstyle in any way possible.

susmitds

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Most of the time though people will not be able to break CC before they're dead because of lag/ping/etc just because of the server being far away from where they live/ the server is bad etc. So yeah, ganking is by far the easiest and safest playstyle for people that just wants easy mode and don't want to learn how to actually play the game instead of looking for easy ganks.....

I will never see any ganker as a good player, they're only parasites in MMO's that really should be a discouraged playstyle in any way possible.

Looks like somebody gets ganked pretty often.

Maybe you should yourself try ganking, before thinking it is easy mode.

Sharee

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think the current buff to incap strike will ultimately be good for the game. It´s just another thing that will again promote ganking which results in even more zerging because getting instagibbed just isn´t fun pvp gameplay.

I don't understand how ganking promotes zerging.
Ganking has never been considered some thing bad by the devs. Otherwise the stealth system would not exist at all.
Yes, I understand that several players hate ganking.
BUT, even lore wise Nightblades were supposed to be gankers. The very first description of Nightblades in the game, says that they are masters of trouble, for causing it and for getting out of it unharmed.

Might not be concidered bad by the devs, but the majority of players I've run across in pretty much every MMO that got a class with that kind of gameplay hates gankers. Wonder why....

That is because a part of the players are unable to counter gankers. It is pretty similar to the hatred campers/lurkers get in MP FPS games, who basically do the same thing, take people by surprise.
It is the fact that some gamers want challenge but yet hate being taken by surprise. It is not hard to counter gankers if you are ready to go out of your way to do it.
My Khajiit nightblade has 41k Stam, 3.8 weapon damage, 86% crit, 97% bonus crit damage but all that at the cost of having only 12k health.
So technically if you can just get a single good hit, I will be finished. But most players, even some emperors, try to escape or go defensive on stealth hits but that will just them killed.
The first thing, you should do on being ganked, is to counter hard and try to CC, even before you try to heal. Most players, who do this destroy gankers, including mine, given almost all gankers are extreme glass cannons.
But there are always some players who try top out heal gankers, which is ridiculous, given the gankers DPS stats, and then will go complain how gankers are spoiling their fun, instead to trying to spend time learning to counter it.

Most of the time though people will not be able to break CC before they're dead because of lag/ping/etc just because of the server being far away from where they live/ the server is bad etc. So yeah, ganking is by far the easiest and safest playstyle for people that just wants easy mode and don't want to learn how to actually play the game instead of looking for easy ganks.....

I will never see any ganker as a good player, they're only parasites in MMO's that really should be a discouraged playstyle in any way possible.

Don't wear pajamas then. My heavy armor mag DK does not get ganked easily - i do not always win the fight, but i certainly never die before i am able to break CC. And any player who is not good and tries to gank me learns why ganking isn't the easymode he thought it to be.