Veteran Maelstrom Arena Weapons in DB

Derra · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

I´ve tested pretty much everything with succession when it comes to sorc as it was the first set i completed full jewelry for. It´s not worth it.

An ice staff for WOE is always a DPS loss compared to fire except for when you´re using winterborn (which you´re not planning to).

Pretty much nothing can make up for Kena 2p in terms of dps.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Jsmalls · April 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

I'm mainly PvP to the core, but when I'm not I tend to use liquid lightning versus WoE, it has a longer duration and it tooltips for about 1.2k more than WoE's so with the added enchant provided a weave is done around every second it balances out. While yes I could indeed use both WoE and Lightning flood it's rather hard to sustain at that point for longer fights, as well as the need to constantly recast both.

But beyond that WoE isn't used in PvP (minus using it on breaches in keeps). So all in all for MOST of my applications a Maelstrom staff will no longer be beneficial for me.

I will however be using it with poisons in PvP, so I suppose at least the is that.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

I'm mainly PvP to the core, but when I'm not I tend to use liquid lightning versus WoE, it has a longer duration and it tooltips for about 1.2k more than WoE's so with the added enchant provided a weave is done around every second it balances out. While yes I could indeed use both WoE and Lightning flood it's rather hard to sustain at that point for longer fights, as well as the need to constantly recast both.

But beyond that WoE isn't used in PvP (minus using it on breaches in keeps). So all in all for MOST of my applications a Maelstrom staff will no longer be beneficial for me.

I will however be using it with poisons in PvP, so I suppose at least the is that.

Absolutely if that is the way you play then for sure you would benefit more from the regular spell damage enchant. However I will mention that both liquid lightning and WoE are a staple in PvE for high DPS numbers.

rokrdt05 · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

I´ve tested pretty much everything with succession when it comes to sorc as it was the first set i completed full jewelry for. It´s not worth it.

An ice staff for WOE is always a DPS loss compared to fire except for when you´re using winterborn (which you´re not planning to).

Pretty much nothing can make up for Kena 2p in terms of dps.

lol what a interesting build that would be running 5x Succession 5x Winterborn... I'm almost considering doing that for lawls.

Not to discount any of your testing, but I've always been a "let me test the numbers" guy as opposed to taking someones word. As I've said before, I had less than perfect traits and was getting comparable dps. Granted it was not higher, just comparable. Again, this is something I haven't put 100% time/effort in as I don't have the appropriate gear.. and now with gold jewelry coming, I'm going to make this one of my top priorities to at least try and see what I get vs Kena and the other monster helms I've mentioned.

LegendaryArcher · April 2016

Decado wrote: »

[...]for the first 700 runs it was funny I was sick of malestrom in about 10 runs lol

@Decado I remember how tough it was to complete it for the very first time. Lots of rage and frustration. I was so happy when Voriak Solkyn finally died (the first time, I did it on a Stamina Nightblade). I was so proud to finally open the last chest, I earned it! For some reason I expected the last chest to always drop a weapon because, come on, not even worth a discussion, right? Then I saw a well-fitted Helm of Glory in there and a little bit of gold. This was the moment I got sick of Maelstrom.

Asayre · April 2016

@hedna123b14_ESO @rokrdt05
The internal cooldown of weapon damage glyphs is 10 seconds and the effect last for 5 seconds so maximum uptime of 50% or 174 spell damage. Worse than a maelstrom staff for sure

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Asayre wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO @rokrdt05
The internal cooldown of weapon damage glyphs is 10 seconds and the effect last for 5 seconds so maximum uptime of 50% or 174 spell damage. Worse than a maelstrom staff for sure

10 seconds? Dang that is really low...

snoogadooch · May 2016

I'm not usually a lucky guy when it comes to drops, but it sounds like I'm extrodinarily lucky. I've gotten everything I've wanted sans a sharpened bow within 20 or so runs (for both stam and mag characters) including 2x Fire destro staff.

Artis · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Weapons are not supposed to be something you can easily farm. Don't count on them. The whole point is that they are rare and if you get them - good for you.

It's not like everyone is supposed to have them, so please stop complaining. They are for good AND lucky players. If everyone has one - then the whole point is lost. They are supposed to be like legendary weapons from WoW.

If you were one of those unlucky players who had run it hundreds of times without getting the weapon you want, would you seriously still be singing this tune?

Yes, Cinder. I would. I never cared for gear. It's not like those weapons are must have, too. Besides, who told you I am lucky? I don't have any stamina weapons, for example. I would also like to get an ice staff, but I've never seen one drop. And I'm not complaining. It's fine. I can play without them. I agree with the token system - that would be a nice thing to add. I agree that RNG sucks. But I really really really think people should stop complaining as if they were entitled to have master weapons. It's not like everyone is supposed to make builds with those weapons and have them. The whole point of the master weapons is that they are rare and only a few players (relatively) can have them.

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Even if they drop 100% of the time in the last chest it will take a long time to actually get the weapon in the trait you desire.

hey are for good AND lucky players This sentence makes me laugh hard. Lucky players? Really? This discredits your whole post.

Yes they are for lucky players. I mean, there's no ID like in WoW. Dungeons have no cooldown and can be farmed continuously. Now if the drop rate was as low AND we could only run vMA once a week - then I'd understand your complaints.
Don't see how it discredits my post. Explain please.

Decado wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Weapons are not supposed to be something you can easily farm. Don't count on them. The whole point is that they are rare and if you get them - good for you.

It's not like everyone is supposed to have them, so please stop complaining. They are for good AND lucky players. If everyone has one - then the whole point is lost. They are supposed to be like legendary weapons from WoW.

Surely not a real post? No one can honestly believe it should be about luck

I do believe it should be about luck in ESO. It's because dungeons don't have cooldowns. It's not like you can only run it once a week (which is the case with WoW's endgame content and a source of best pve gear). Just do not count on a master weapon. You don't really need it anyway. Everything can be completed without it.

Decado · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Weapons are not supposed to be something you can easily farm. Don't count on them. The whole point is that they are rare and if you get them - good for you.

It's not like everyone is supposed to have them, so please stop complaining. They are for good AND lucky players. If everyone has one - then the whole point is lost. They are supposed to be like legendary weapons from WoW.

If you were one of those unlucky players who had run it hundreds of times without getting the weapon you want, would you seriously still be singing this tune?

Yes, Cinder. I would. I never cared for gear. It's not like those weapons are must have, too. Besides, who told you I am lucky? I don't have any stamina weapons, for example. I would also like to get an ice staff, but I've never seen one drop. And I'm not complaining. It's fine. I can play without them. I agree with the token system - that would be a nice thing to add. I agree that RNG sucks. But I really really really think people should stop complaining as if they were entitled to have master weapons. It's not like everyone is supposed to make builds with those weapons and have them. The whole point of the master weapons is that they are rare and only a few players (relatively) can have them.

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Even if they drop 100% of the time in the last chest it will take a long time to actually get the weapon in the trait you desire.

hey are for good AND lucky players This sentence makes me laugh hard. Lucky players? Really? This discredits your whole post.

Yes they are for lucky players. I mean, there's no ID like in WoW. Dungeons have no cooldown and can be farmed continuously. Now if the drop rate was as low AND we could only run vMA once a week - then I'd understand your complaints.
Don't see how it discredits my post. Explain please.

Decado wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Weapons are not supposed to be something you can easily farm. Don't count on them. The whole point is that they are rare and if you get them - good for you.

It's not like everyone is supposed to have them, so please stop complaining. They are for good AND lucky players. If everyone has one - then the whole point is lost. They are supposed to be like legendary weapons from WoW.

Surely not a real post? No one can honestly believe it should be about luck

I do believe it should be about luck in ESO. It's because dungeons don't have cooldowns. It's not like you can only run it once a week (which is the case with WoW's endgame content and a source of best pve gear). Just do not count on a master weapon. You don't really need it anyway. Everything can be completed without it.

First let me start by saying I agree with you that we don't need them, I HAVE competed every piece of content in this game without them,

But let me ask you a few things,

1) I have completed malestrom on numerous characters, I have my flawless achievement, I have every other weapon on perfect traits, yet I don't have a single destro staff, not even a defending, you think that's fair? You think I havnt earnt that weapon? How is it I could of earnt all the other weapons but the one I actually need.

2) like I said I agree I do not need these weapons to complete the content, I've already proved that, however by not having that weapon my DPS is lower than it should be, and that's letting my group down, when we are pushing for speed run achievements etc my DPS is lower therefore the groups is lower, is that my fault?

Let me give you an example, it is possible to push the final boss in maw into his execute phase in his first lunar cycle of you can push him to 10% before he completes it, let's say my group are trying to do this and we get him to 11% but just slightly miss out on it because the DPS is a fraction to low, is that fair on the other 11 people?

Now if I was slacking on the runs and not getting it then yes it's my own fault but I'm running 2/3 times a day, I'm doing everything in my power to get that weapon and you still think it should be about luck?

imenace · May 2016

wait.. are they reducing the chance for a maelstrom drop or what? can someone clear this up for me

luen79rwb17_ESO · May 2016

Totally agree on this. Last Boss' lootable is way too large. It's even way too large if it was only weapon drops because you have an additional RNG factor with traits.

Make it work like IC trophy vaults at least, you have 2x chance to get something useful... At least.

Artis · May 2016

Decado wrote: »

First let me start by saying I agree with you that we don't need them, I HAVE competed every piece of content in this game without them,

But let me ask you a few things,

1) I have completed malestrom on numerous characters, I have my flawless achievement, I have every other weapon on perfect traits, yet I don't have a single destro staff, not even a defending, you think that's fair? You think I havnt earnt that weapon? How is it I could of earnt all the other weapons but the one I actually need.

2) like I said I agree I do not need these weapons to complete the content, I've already proved that, however by not having that weapon my DPS is lower than it should be, and that's letting my group down, when we are pushing for speed run achievements etc my DPS is lower therefore the groups is lower, is that my fault?

Let me give you an example, it is possible to push the final boss in maw into his execute phase in his first lunar cycle of you can push him to 10% before he completes it, let's say my group are trying to do this and we get him to 11% but just slightly miss out on it because the DPS is a fraction to low, is that fair on the other 11 people?

Now if I was slacking on the runs and not getting it then yes it's my own fault but I'm running 2/3 times a day, I'm doing everything in my power to get that weapon and you still think it should be about luck?

1) Yes, I'm in the same boat. I got flawless, I have completed vma quite a few times, yet I haven't seen some weapons at all. So what? I don't complain. Eventually I'll get it. Or not. Big deal. Even though I would like to have it, I understand that the point is that those weapons should be rare. What do you mean you didn't earn it? I'm saying that it's not something you earn, just don't count on it.

2) All groups are in the same conditions. It's not anyone's fault. DPS is lower so yeah you'll spend more time, but other groups have the same thing going on.

I understand that you want this weapon, but how do you maintain it being rare? If you say someone earns it just because he completed vma multiple times. Do you think it's better for a game if everyone has it and makes builds with it and can count on having it? If everyone in every raid group has it, then it's not exclusive at all. Don't you think we should have something exclusive? And how would you approach this taking into account that dungeons have no cooldowns in this game?

potirondb16_ESO · May 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn Could you explain more about Normal MA please? Right now the jewelry only drop from the 8th and 9th chest and they share the same table with other set pieces and non-set gear. From what I understand, with the update, MA will no longer drop non-set gear, both in normal and vet mode, but the jewelry in normal mode will still drop in the 8th and 9th chest only, and still share the chance with other set pieces. Is that right?

Sure! Every arena will drop a set piece. In normal, Arena 7 and 8 have a chance to drop a necklace (higher chance in Arena 8 than in Arena 7) and arena 9 will drop a ring.

As for the feedback on drop rates of weapons, we are definitely taking a look and appreciate the feedback.[/quote]

I'm actuallly 3 on 3 on my sorc for receiving Shield from leaderboard ! And also do seems to have a high chance to receive 2h weapon... I'm kind of wondering if the RNG isn't deciding for our class what should be ...

code65536 · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

but how do you maintain it being rare?

It already is rare simply by merit of vMA being difficult to complete. We may have a bit of tunnel vision and it may seem like everyone in an endgame PvE guild has them, but in terms of the general game population, it is very rare.

There's more than one way to attain rarity. You could make the task of getting something so difficult such that most people cannot accomplish that task. Or you can use luck and chance.

Here's the central problem, though: People hate it if skill/difficulty and luck are combined.

Imperial motifs, for example, are purely luck-based. They are rare because their drop chance is exceptionally low. But they don't require any sort of skill--you just keep opening thousands of containers until, one day, you get one. Or you might never get one. And most people don't think that this is unfair or unfun because it's just like a lottery. People play the lottery not because they are playing for skill, but because they are playing the luck game.

In contrast, imagine a game that is based on skill. Can you imagine, if at the end of a basketball tournament, the winning team, instead of taking home the trophy, is given a coin toss? Heads, they get to take home the trophy. Tails, well, good job on winning, but there's no prize for you. The difference here is that people play the sports game are playing a skills game, not a luck game. Luck may factor into whether or not they defeat their opponent, but once they have done so, they fully expect to the rewarded.

Now, a lottery and a sporting trophy are two extremes of the spectrum, and vMA falls somewhere in between. But mostly towards "sporting trophy" end of the spectrum. People put work into vMA--it requires effort, concentration, and skill. And it's stressful.

Simply put, the two don't really mix, and while luck is deemed perfectly fair for a lottery, using luck to determine if a winning team should get a trophy is anything but fair. And that is the matter you should be worried about: fairness. Rarity isn't the issue; it's fairness, and the current system is not fair. You already have one huge layer of rarity by merit of it being locked behind content that 90% (or likely even 99%) of the game's general population can't complete. Yet another layer does nothing except frustrate players, breed resentment, and ultimately sap the fun out of the game.

Artis · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

but how do you maintain it being rare?

It already is rare simply by merit of vMA being difficult to complete. We may have a bit of tunnel vision and it may seem like everyone in an endgame PvE guild has them, but in terms of the general game population, it is very rare.

There's more than one way to attain rarity. You could make the task of getting something so difficult such that most people cannot accomplish that task. Or you can use luck and chance.

Here's the central problem, though: People hate it if skill/difficulty and luck are combined.

Imperial motifs, for example, are purely luck-based. They are rare because their drop chance is exceptionally low. But they don't require any sort of skill--you just keep opening thousands of containers until, one day, you get one. Or you might never get one. And most people don't think that this is unfair or unfun because it's just like a lottery. People play the lottery not because they are playing for skill, but because they are playing the luck game.

In contrast, imagine a game that is based on skill. Can you imagine, if at the end of a basketball tournament, the winning team, instead of taking home the trophy, is given a coin toss? Heads, they get to take home the trophy. Tails, well, good job on winning, but there's no prize for you. The difference here is that people play the sports game are playing a skills game, not a luck game. Luck may factor into whether or not they defeat their opponent, but once they have done so, they fully expect to the rewarded.

Now, a lottery and a sporting trophy are two extremes of the spectrum, and vMA falls somewhere in between. But mostly towards "sporting trophy" end of the spectrum. People put work into vMA--it requires effort, concentration, and skill. And it's stressful.

Simply put, the two don't really mix, and while luck is deemed perfectly fair for a lottery, using luck to determine if a winning team should get a trophy is anything but fair. And that is the matter you should be worried about: fairness. Rarity isn't the issue; it's fairness, and the current system is not fair. You already have one huge layer of rarity by merit of it being locked behind content that 90% (or likely even 99%) of the game's general population can't complete. Yet another layer does nothing except frustrate players, breed resentment, and ultimately sap the fun out of the game.

How is it rare? Name one person, say, in Nightfighters who doesn't run master weps in trials? Rare means rare. Not just rare among general game population, but also among endgame raiders. No need to count people who didn't even hit vr16 and/or never put real effort into vMA.
Endgame PvE guilds are the only ones who actually "need" those weps. If everyone there has them - then they are not rare enough. The task is difficult enough only until you complete for the first time. Once you figured it out - you can just farm it, because it has no cooldown. Which basically leads us to "whoever can complete vMA will have a master weapon of his choice at some point soon". That is the opposite of rare, don't you see it? People shouldn't be entitled to master weapons just because they can complete a dungeon. Then there's also luck.

Don't you see the difference between farming vMA and wow's raids where you could only roll once a week. In the first case people get weapons very soon after they complete, which makes them less rare and less significant. Now they buff the drop rate and it will be the case.

I don't understand your definition of fair. How is the system unfair? Weapons are supposed to be rare, not farmable. Why don't you ask to nerf emperor achievement or fishing or trophies? There you can grind for hours too, but never get the reward.

What saps fun of the game is that people for some reason expect to have master weapons. And if they don't get them - that saps fun of the game for them. I never expected them and the game is fun. Why can't we have at least 1 item that you can't expect to have? Just one. Not that much to ask. You can farm 99.99% items. Just leave this one alone.

Darlon · May 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Decado · May 2016

You know what it's absolutely pointless talking to you on this, you clearly have you opinion set in stone and I forgot to mention if before but I'll do so now, don't compare this game to wow and what they do/did I don't play wow if I wanted wow mechanics I would go and play it, I don't want ESO to have them, you want things that are purely luck and rare make it so it isn't a requirement to pull that best numbers, somebody already gave you an example with the imperial motif, I'll add in the polymorph that can be acquired by killing molag ball,

The rare that is based on skill and luck should not be a BiS item, it should be something nice but not needed, a unique mount or costume etc. And you can't just select the player base you want to look at to decide what's rare, you can't just say rare among end game PvE guilds, how do you expect people to work towards getting into those guilds? Or do you not care about the rest of the population? So let's check a more fair pool.

How many V16s have the weapons they require please note you can't count people like me in there who have every weapon but the one hey want. So if we look into the pool of V16s and the ones who have vMA weapons you'll see that the weapons ARE rare

rokrdt05 · May 2016

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Correct, the buff to spell damage will always apply, what they were debating is if you use the new "enchants" is if that was going to out DPS, the DPS you get from weaving from the Crusher Enchant on those staves.

Darlon · May 2016

nvm...

rokrdt05 · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

but how do you maintain it being rare?

It already is rare simply by merit of vMA being difficult to complete. We may have a bit of tunnel vision and it may seem like everyone in an endgame PvE guild has them, but in terms of the general game population, it is very rare.

There's more than one way to attain rarity. You could make the task of getting something so difficult such that most people cannot accomplish that task. Or you can use luck and chance.

Here's the central problem, though: People hate it if skill/difficulty and luck are combined.

Imperial motifs, for example, are purely luck-based. They are rare because their drop chance is exceptionally low. But they don't require any sort of skill--you just keep opening thousands of containers until, one day, you get one. Or you might never get one. And most people don't think that this is unfair or unfun because it's just like a lottery. People play the lottery not because they are playing for skill, but because they are playing the luck game.

In contrast, imagine a game that is based on skill. Can you imagine, if at the end of a basketball tournament, the winning team, instead of taking home the trophy, is given a coin toss? Heads, they get to take home the trophy. Tails, well, good job on winning, but there's no prize for you. The difference here is that people play the sports game are playing a skills game, not a luck game. Luck may factor into whether or not they defeat their opponent, but once they have done so, they fully expect to the rewarded.

Now, a lottery and a sporting trophy are two extremes of the spectrum, and vMA falls somewhere in between. But mostly towards "sporting trophy" end of the spectrum. People put work into vMA--it requires effort, concentration, and skill. And it's stressful.

Simply put, the two don't really mix, and while luck is deemed perfectly fair for a lottery, using luck to determine if a winning team should get a trophy is anything but fair. And that is the matter you should be worried about: fairness. Rarity isn't the issue; it's fairness, and the current system is not fair. You already have one huge layer of rarity by merit of it being locked behind content that 90% (or likely even 99%) of the game's general population can't complete. Yet another layer does nothing except frustrate players, breed resentment, and ultimately sap the fun out of the game.

How is it rare? Name one person, say, in Nightfighters who doesn't run master weps in trials? Rare means rare. Not just rare among general game population, but also among endgame raiders. No need to count people who didn't even hit vr16 and/or never put real effort into vMA.
Endgame PvE guilds are the only ones who actually "need" those weps. If everyone there has them - then they are not rare enough. The task is difficult enough only until you complete for the first time. Once you figured it out - you can just farm it, because it has no cooldown. Which basically leads us to "whoever can complete vMA will have a master weapon of his choice at some point soon". That is the opposite of rare, don't you see it? People shouldn't be entitled to master weapons just because they can complete a dungeon. Then there's also luck.

Don't you see the difference between farming vMA and wow's raids where you could only roll once a week. In the first case people get weapons very soon after they complete, which makes them less rare and less significant. Now they buff the drop rate and it will be the case.

I don't understand your definition of fair. How is the system unfair? Weapons are supposed to be rare, not farmable. Why don't you ask to nerf emperor achievement or fishing or trophies? There you can grind for hours too, but never get the reward.

What saps fun of the game is that people for some reason expect to have master weapons. And if they don't get them - that saps fun of the game for them. I never expected them and the game is fun. Why can't we have at least 1 item that you can't expect to have? Just one. Not that much to ask. You can farm 99.99% items. Just leave this one alone.

I agree to an extent... I'm all for rarity and hard to obtain but where do you drawn the line?

I have been fortunate enough to get several of the Maelstrom staves I want, but I know friends of mine who have run it 10x more than I have (and I've done this hundreds of times) and still have not being able to get their desired weapon. The complaint most people have is mostly not if a weapon will drop (because if they are on weekly they get one), it's what weapon will drop. The RNG in this game is horrendous. I made an example earlier this week and I'll give you another... I did vMA 2x this week... know what I got for my rewards in mail? 2 Precise Maelstrom Bows. You can't tell me that is complete garbage. The week prior it was 3 Precise Maelstrom 1H Axes. The staggering amount of stamina weapons I have is insane. The drops all seem to favor it (for me at least). So while I am for rarity, it should not be so rare as to never seeing it after "x" amount of runs.

If they implemented some sort of token system, or made much needed adjustments to their RNG system a lot of people will be happier. At least with a token system for example, you can "work towards" getting the weapon you want via "x" amount of runs or be lucky enough to get it prior. People don't want to do the same content over and over and feel they are getting ripped off.

Marthor_Banana · May 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Maelstrom Arena
Improved the rewards for Maelstrom Arena so now every level of the Arena is guaranteed to grant a set item.
Note: The only exception is the final Arena on Veteran mode, which may still drop a Maelstrom Weapon instead.

Are you kidding me? So the last chest after the 1 - 3h solo arena in an MMO will still drop helmets instead of weapons 19 out of 20 runs? And then a random weapon with a random trait? Referring to this thread concerning the live servers.

The leaderboard isn't being increased either. So most spots for the guaranteed weapons are reserved for those paying real money to cheaters on EpicNPC to run it for them and place them on the leaderboard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno So, how is this a good idea? Usually you encounter design like this only in F2P games.

these "cheaters" probably say thank you for that free advertisment :O

code65536 · May 2016

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Ooh. So you're saying that if I re-enchant my Maelstrom tank swords (full heavy attack 5 seconds after Low Slash; LOL) with something actually useful like Absorb Stamina, I can still keep the max-health slot bonus?!

Darlon · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Ooh. So you're saying that if I re-enchant my Maelstrom tank swords (full heavy attack 5 seconds after Low Slash; LOL) with something actually useful like Absorb Stamina, I can still keep the max-health slot bonus?!

Yes, that's what's happening with a fire staff at least (+189 spell damage bonus). It doesn't show it on the weapon tooltip, but it is still there on the character sheet..
I haven't actually tried with the swords, but it should be easily visible if that's the case..

Not sure if this is intended, however, they did state that for maelstrom and master weapons the stat bonus would stay if you applied a poison to that weapon. Seeing that the poison 'replaces' the enchant when you apply it, I think it has something to do with this and it works similarly when re-enchanting

*Edit: as said earlier, I didn't do any real/thorough damage tests to confirm this, I went solely from the spell damage value on the character sheet

rokrdt05 · May 2016

Darlon wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Ooh. So you're saying that if I re-enchant my Maelstrom tank swords (full heavy attack 5 seconds after Low Slash; LOL) with something actually useful like Absorb Stamina, I can still keep the max-health slot bonus?!

Yes, that's what's happening with a fire staff at least (+189 spell damage bonus). It doesn't show it on the weapon tooltip, but it is still there on the character sheet..
I haven't actually tried with the swords, but it should be easily visible if that's the case..

Not sure if this is intended, however, they did state that for maelstrom and master weapons the stat bonus would stay if you applied a poison to that weapon. Seeing that the poison 'replaces' the enchant when you apply it, I think it has something to do with this and it works similarly when re-enchanting

*Edit: as said earlier, I didn't do any real/thorough damage tests to confirm this, I went solely from the spell damage value on the character sheet

Considering poisons are only to mask the current enchant, more likely than not this is a bug if it is still giving you the spell damage bonus without the appropriate enchant being on it. I would bug report it.

code65536 · May 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

Ooh. So you're saying that if I re-enchant my Maelstrom tank swords (full heavy attack 5 seconds after Low Slash; LOL) with something actually useful like Absorb Stamina, I can still keep the max-health slot bonus?!

Yes, that's what's happening with a fire staff at least (+189 spell damage bonus). It doesn't show it on the weapon tooltip, but it is still there on the character sheet..
I haven't actually tried with the swords, but it should be easily visible if that's the case..

Not sure if this is intended, however, they did state that for maelstrom and master weapons the stat bonus would stay if you applied a poison to that weapon. Seeing that the poison 'replaces' the enchant when you apply it, I think it has something to do with this and it works similarly when re-enchanting

*Edit: as said earlier, I didn't do any real/thorough damage tests to confirm this, I went solely from the spell damage value on the character sheet

Considering poisons are only to mask the current enchant, more likely than not this is a bug if it is still giving you the spell damage bonus without the appropriate enchant being on it. I would bug report it.

Anyone with a bad-trait Maelstrom weapon slated for decon table on Live want to test to see if this is a PTS thing or a Live thing?

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Darlon wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

The internal cooldown on weapon enchants was 5 seconds I thought, but I am not 100% on this. But for the sake of the argument let's assume that you have 0 downtime on it. A maelstrom staff gives 189 spell damage. That's 159 spell damage less than a crafted enchant. Even with sorcs buffs that doesn't amount to more than around 215 spell damage overall. The buff to medium weaves from the maelstrom destro amounts to around 30-45% increase to weave damage. This results in around 4-6% increase in overall dps. I can guarantee that 215 spell damage will not amount to even half that amount.

Currently on the pts, if you swap out the enchant on the maelstrom staves (and probably also other mealstrom weapons) the 189 spell damage bonus stays intact while the rest of the enchant is replaced.

I didn't do any thorough damage tests, but according to the displayed spell damage values this is currently the case.
I used 2 Maelstrom staves (both sharpened) and 1 torugs pact staff (also sharpened, no 2 set bonus). On 1 of the mealstrom staves I replaced the enchant with a weapon damage enchant. When I compared the spell damage values in the character sheet they stayed identical. With the torug's pact staff (no 2 set bonus) it dropped as expected.

If that is the case, then by replacing the enchant you would only gain half the value of the enchant, since the cooldown appears to be 10 seconds as per @Asayre's testing. WhIce still doesn't make it a worthy replacement for the regular enchant on the stave.

leipatemeibbaa · May 2016

I did Maelstrom Arena three times on PTS as DK, and receive zero weapon and zero jewelry.

/sad

and the arena seems much harder than live server.

LegendaryArcher · May 2016

leipatemeibbaa wrote: »

I did Maelstrom Arena three times on PTS as DK, and receive zero weapon and zero jewelry.

/sad

and the arena seems much harder than live server.

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GinaBruno Could you comment on this, please?