Veteran Maelstrom Arena Weapons in DB

Derra · April 2016

Decado wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Just ran Maelstrom. It's all the same. Got a Para Bellum Choker (Arcane).

@ZOS_Finn This is unacceptable!

There are just 4 weapons I want:
- Sharpened Bow
- Sharpened Mace
- Sharpened Inferno Staff
- Precise Restoration Staff

On live, after over 100 runs and a few weeklies, I don't have a single one of them.
Is this really working as intended?

I've started writing down my drops and there are patterns emerging,

Defending sword
Precise sword
Infused permafrost chest
Reinforced succession chest
Sharpened resto staff
Precise malestrom dagger
Sharpened resto
Defending resto
Defending resto
Infused hunt chest
Divines hunt chest
Ring of the hunt

Not enough runs. I´ve kept all weapons that ever dropped for me - weekly and from the arena. 126 in total. I have 1 sharpened inferno staff sitting beside 14 sharpened resto staves and 11 sharpened bows.

Still i would not make the assumption that there is any sort of pattern associated to drops. The samplesize is just too small.

code65536 · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away 3p Willpower's 1400 mag + 186 SD for 4p Succession's 1934 mag + 129 SD, which is a roughly equal tradeoff. And trading away the DPS from the 2p Monster set for Succession's 5p bonus which is effectively around 493/3=164 SD.

As virtually all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage. And for Force Pulse, you'll get full 100% uptime, but only on 1/3 of its components. So unless you do something crazy like bar-swap to another elemental staff every 4 seconds, 5p Succession's effective SD is just 164 SD.

But you'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so 164 SD is more of an upper limit, and it should be less than that.

I don't think that 164 effective SD would be competitive against Skoria/Nerien'eth. Hence why Succession is, IMHO, a junk set.

Winterborn, however, is actually a pretty good set even in PvE. The Winterborn crystals do AoE damage, and their proc damage is comparable to Skoria/Nerien'eth proc damage. The proc chance is pretty high--8% on ice damage of any sort (vs. 10% for Nerien'eth non-DoT damage and 6% Skoria DoT damage)--and I do see those crystals popping up a lot whenever I lay down a Blockade. So Winterborn is a pretty nice alternative to Willpower+Monster. I just can't say the same about Succession.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

This thread is driving off topic a little.

Back to the topic: I still believe the best idea would be, in case ZOS believes dropping a purple Maelstrom weapon every 1 - 3 hour run is inappropriate, I'd be fine with getting them in lower qualities.

@ZOS_Finn Just make the 8th chest drop 50% jewelry and 50% set item; and the final chest should drop 10% purple Maelstrom weapon, 30% blue Maelstrom weapon, 60% green Maelstrom weapon - or something similar.

I'd be completely fine with that and would consider it fair. It would still require weeks/months of grinding to get the weapon you need with the appropriate trait, but it would make the whole ordeal way less frustrating.

Guarantee us a weapon in the last chest.

I vehemently disagree. Purple is the only appropriate drop for that insane 1-3 hour grind.

rokrdt05 · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

Joy_Division · April 2016

In light of the better weapon enchantments and upcoming poisons, I am not so sure the Maelstrom weapons are quite the reward they used to be.

zerosingularity · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

But you lose Nerineth/Kena 2pc, which is a big loss in most scenarios.

Now if it were buffed or modded in some fashion to be more reliable, it might be interesting to try out.

code65536 · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

Ah, I had revised my post a bit while you were posting your response.

Even if you do run multiple elements, unless you're changing your rotation so that you favor one element over the other depending on what's active (and it would be quite a pain since it's such a short 4-second cycle), you'll effectively still be getting a 1/3 bonus. Say you always keep LL and Ice Blockade up. The LL will still get a bonus for 1/3 of it time, and the Ice Blockade for 1/3 of the time. The only way you can do better is if you don't keep them up 100% of the time and time their application and reapplication so that they hit their bonus windows.

And, yes, if the lightning bonus happens to be active during a sorc's execute, that would be great, but you usually don't have much control over that sort of timing.

I guess my point is that, yes, a sorc does do all types of elemental damage, but to benefit, you'll have to time your elements to match the 4s bonus cycles, and unless you do that, it's still effectively going to be 515/3 = 172 SD.

rokrdt05 · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

Actually, the only reason I've been running VMA is to try and get Succession jewelry, the weapons are an after thought. Certain sets in there allow for build diversity that is pretty unique to the meta.

Succession? Hmm. As a replacement for 3p Willpower + 2p Monster for a DK or sorc? Essentially, you'll be trading away the more potent stats of Willpower and the DPS from the monster set for roughly 493/3 SD. As almost all DK damage is fire, you'll basically get 1/3 uptime on the 493 SD. Same for the sorc's single-element damage, and 1/3 of Force Pulse's components will always be active. You'll lose the bonus entirely for non-elemental damage (proxdet on a DK, though I don't know how useful det will be post-DB, and frags, curse, proxdet on the sorc), so it'll effectively be less than 493/3. Would that be competitive with the numbers from Skoria/Ner?

The set up I'm thinking of (for sorcs) will allow for 5x Succession, 5x Crafted Set, and 1x/2x Maelstrom/DW. I wouldn't imagine this being useful for a DK as DK's deal only in flame damage. However, sorcs deal in all 3 element types. Also, you are wrong that Willpower would outdo gold succession jewelry as the stats are all increased and base stats are higher with succession (even in purple) compared to willpower. Also, the spell damage for gold is 515 compared to the 493. You're also assuming I would be using a Fire staff. With succession as I said, it allows for build diversity outside of the meta. I could easily run an Ice staff for blockade instead of fire, I will always have liquid lightning down as a DoT, and Force Pulse will always have one hit increased. This goes doubly true for execute, as my execute is Lightning damage along with my disintegration procs. I have a build in mind and have seen it pull pretty comparable DPS without a monster set. I admit I haven't worked out all the fine print, but I'm getting close.

Ah, I had revised my post a bit while you were posting your response.

Even if you do run multiple elements, unless you're changing your rotation so that you favor one element over the other depending on what's active (and it would be quite a pain since it's such a short 4-second cycle), you'll effectively still be getting a 1/3 bonus. Say you always keep LL and Ice Blockade up. The LL will still get a bonus for 1/3 of it time, and the Ice Blockade for 1/3 of the time. The only way you can do better is if you don't keep them up 100% of the time and time their application and reapplication so that they hit their bonus windows.

And, yes, if the lightning bonus happens to be active during a sorc's execute, that would be great, but you usually don't have much control over that sort of timing.

I guess my point is that, yes, a sorc does do all types of elemental damage, but to benefit, you'll have to time your elements to match the 4s bonus cycles, and unless you do that, it's still effectively going to be 515/3 = 172 SD.

In the interest of not derailing this thread further (sorry OP), I'll say that once I get the gear with the correct traits and the rotation that would best compliment it, I'll hit you back up with some parses comparing, Nerien'eth vs Skoria vs Kena vs Succession. I think you'll be pretty surprised by the results.

eserras7b16_ESO · April 2016

The feedback i can give on this, is that RNG is driving players mad. Stop this nonsense and add tokens, players will be happier so you'll aswel

Decado · April 2016

Artis wrote: »

Weapons are not supposed to be something you can easily farm. Don't count on them. The whole point is that they are rare and if you get them - good for you.

It's not like everyone is supposed to have them, so please stop complaining. They are for good AND lucky players. If everyone has one - then the whole point is lost. They are supposed to be like legendary weapons from WoW.

Surely not a real post? No one can honestly believe it should be about luck

KenaPKK · April 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Also how about removing the "bind on pickup" for everything but the maelstrom weapons.

Selling the sets you get in maeltrom would be a good way to offset repair costs. Like Dragon Star Arena with the healer/footman sets.

Also pariah, briarthorn and others need to be unbound as well.

But the sets in Maelstrom aren't even used.

Overall, though, I think the loot drop changes are fair. The only qualm I had with Maelstrom was that jewelry didn't seem to drop much at all. That's the main issue I was looking for ZOS to address.

Dunkmeister · April 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Sure! Every arena will drop a set piece. In normal, Arena 7 and 8 have a chance to drop a necklace (higher chance in Arena 8 than in Arena 7) and arena 9 will drop a ring.

As for the feedback on drop rates of weapons, we are definitely taking a look and appreciate the feedback.

Why not put necks in 7, rings in 8 and put 100% drop of maelstrom weapons in last chest? My vote would be for that instead.

LegendaryArcher · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

I don't agree. I run 4 of my characters through the weekly (time allowing) and I always pick up a chest, and repair my gear. I at most use 2 sigils per run as well and still manage a leaderboard time easily. The arena is so easy now, and come next patch with shield changes it will be even easier.

@rokrdt05 I see the confusion. You're on the NA server. On the EU server, you will not get on the leaderboard if you take a single sigil, chest (except the last one), repair gear, charge your weapon, die or kill adds on boss fights. You have to outdps most mechanics. Unless you're a Templar, then you can afford to take one or the other sigil. If you're a DK, every score will get you to the leaderboard. I know that on NA significantly less people are completing vMA. That's why the huge difference. The cutoff value for Sorcerers on EU (100th place) is somewhere in the area of 500k+.

Consider yourself lucky.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

As for the feedback on drop rates of weapons, we are definitely taking a look and appreciate the feedback.

Thank you.

TheGoodnes · April 2016

@LegendaryArcher

" I see the confusion. You're on the NA server. On the EU server, you will not get on the leaderboard if you take a single sigil, chest (except the last one), repair gear, charge your weapon, die or kill adds on boss fights. You have to outdps most mechanics. Unless you're a Templar, then you can afford to take one or the other sigil. If you're a DK, every score will get you to the leaderboard. I know that on NA significantly less people are completing vMA. That's why the huge difference. The cutoff value for Sorcerers on EU (100th place) is somewhere in the area of 500k+."

What you write there is not the truth..... I do MSA every week and get on weekly (eu servers) every time. I take all chest, repair my gear, and do a UI reload atleast one time in every run. Most times I need about 55 mins, with a score of 530K +. I dont take any sigils, but thats not really nessasary is you know what you are doing. The only thing you need for this content is practice....... Pls dont use any stupid excuses just because you dont practice enough.

X3ina · April 2016

As a experienced VMA grinder i can say that not only the droprate of fire staves sucks. The system somehow thinks that your magicka characters want a stam weapon, at least for me cause i get perfect stam weapons in precise/sharpened every weekly lol. And its not even funny when i can equip ALL my characters with perfect 2h/dual/bow when i don't have ANY stamina dps characters

The simplest solution i see is a chance to trade the weapon u got to weapon u desire (both with same traits).

For "hardcore" trolls players i've run it more than 500x times already + weekly rewards xD

Dunkmeister · April 2016

Another idea would be to let you pick one weapon when you complete a Perfect Run. A one time only reward per character.

Haquor · April 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Its so funny how people qq on not getting on the leader boards. Its the leaderboards ffs. Its supposed to be for the 100 best people lol.
Also you don´t need those weapons to dps. You need them to min/max. And if you wanna min/max you can work for your stuff too. Why do people expect to get everything handed to them for doing nothing? Either get good and compete or dont and live with the consequences!

Would you go to work (actual job) that jad an RNG system where you had a terrible chance at getting paid at the end of the week? With a real chance that you could work your whole life and not get paid?

Stop calling it fricken work people. The system is stupid.

Jsmalls · April 2016

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Not what most people are looking for. No one enters vMA hoping for jewelry after the investment of an hour and a half (what I'd assume to be average) If you're introducing more traits, that's even less of a chance of getting what you want. Guarantee a weapon drop at the end and 90% of complaints will go away.

I assume you have stats for the number of players actually wearing Para Bellum/Glory/Succession?

I've been trying for arcane succession jewellery for a LONG time. I have 4 rings with stamina/health on them...

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

Dunkmeister · April 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

Jsmalls · April 2016

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

f047ys3v3n · April 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

We increased the set item drops in Maelstrom Arena to remove the chance of completing an arena and not getting a set piece. That was the take away from this change.

The Final Arena loot chest will drop a Weapon 50% of the time and a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

The Leaderboard reward will be a weapon 100% of the time AND a piece of Jewelry 50% of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

It is nice to see some transparency on the part of ZOS regarding drop rates. Honestly, this is not near the rate it would take for me to grind this content despite wanting a sharpened inferno staff a great deal and having cleared the content before. I expect that I will finish the last stage with my Templar after the patch for the title just as I did on my NB for the same and then never run the thing again.

For those interested, a 50% drop rate looks like this:
With a 50% weapon drop rate and an even chance for each trait and weapon (best case scenarios) you are looking at a 1/36 or around 2.8% chance on any given complete to get, say either a precise or, better sharpened inferno staff. This is also assuming you are to slow in your run or need several days for your run and can't get the automatic weekly weapon for making the leaderboard. That 1/36 chance translates into a mean number of runs or ETA of 26 completes to get one of your desired weapons (provided you will accept either dps boosting trait and ignore the fact sharpened is much, much, better than precise). This means half players will have it by then not all. 6% of players will do 100 runs with no luck. Imagine that. If this was a dungeon head farm those would be great numbers. You could probably farm the head in about 2 nights with some hardcore buddies with 10min speed runs. Since this is an arena, no speed run skipping, and a long and stressful one at that, I really don't see being able to hit it more than once a day making ETA almost a month in real time with little else done in game.

Running the numbers on expected time to acquisition has become something of regularity for me in ESO as drop rates, bad traits, uneven drops (ie we don't drop so many sharpened infernos and maybe drop a lot of defending daggers or perhaps drop heavy heads at 10x the light rate) have made me wary of starting a gear grind. I am also wary because my infallible aether was inexplicably destroyed 6mos before obsolescence with the lev cap increase to v16. Honesty, Transparency, Reliability, and preanounced gear retirement schedules have not been ESO hallmarks.

Realistically, with Maelstrom weapons being a half year old now and having probably at most another half year until obsolescence 1 month of which would be required by a daily player with the ability to grind this gear in order to obtain it, it seems like a poor decision to try.

I applaud your transparency on these drop rates and encourage you to also adopt more scheduled and reliable gear retirement cycles that will help players to trust enough to commit to working to acquire elite gear. I also would encourage perhaps a re-evaluation of your mean time to acquisition calculations in general. I don't think a month of dedicated grinding by a high ability player is probably the sweet spot. Lastly, tokens. No one should be that 6% of players who complete 100 runs of VMA without the weapon they want. I know some, actually a lot, of those guys, their feelings on the subject are not rosy.

LegendaryArcher · April 2016

TheGoodnes wrote: »

What you write there is not the truth [...] Most times I need about 55 mins, with a score of 530K +. I dont take any sigils, but thats not really nessasary is you know what you are doing.

@TheGoodnes Thanks for your input. Yes, I know people that are constantly pulling 550k+ on Magicka Nightblade. Fact is, my average run without deaths and sigils is always slightly above 1 hour (1:03, 1:04, 1:05), which in points translates to somewhere around exactly 500k. I know that there are people that are better than I (like you). I haven't figured out yet how, they're just faster. But fact is, there aren't that many people able to pull those numbers in the first place. It's only 100 places on the leaderboard, minus people that pay cheaters on EpicNPC to place them there that will always make the leaderboard. Not that the leaderboard provides you with a huge advantage. I've been getting sword and board from the leaderboard 3 times in a row now. But saying that only those people should get a shot at Maelstrom weapons is a little, well... unfair? Since the chest only drops well-shitted crap. Ok, in DB it's gonna be arcane Rings of the Hunt or smth.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

No one should be that 6% of players who complete 100 runs of VMA without the weapon they want. I know some, actually a lot, of those guys, their feelings on the subject are not rosy.

@ZOS_Finn This! And you know what's even more interesting? There is a variety of weapons I want: Sharpened Inferno, Sharpened Maul, Sharpened Bow, Precise Resto. In over 100 runs, including weeklies, I haven't gotten a single one of those four! But I sure do have a huge choice in daggers and well-shitted helmets. Of course I deconstructed those, but I can always go Maelstrom and get new ones.

TheGoodnes · April 2016

@LegendaryArcher

I agree with you, that most of the people playing this game dont get into the weekly, because 100 people is not much and this content is hard to beat for the most. But to farm the weapon of your desire weekly is a joke anyway. You get one radom weopon every week, which you cant call "farming" in my eyes. There were times i did MSA 3-5 times a day, because i wanted my sharpend inferno (still have none :S). I only got *** from the weekly rewards (blessed are my 9 *** bows), and only one weapon i use (precise restro). So i can say you the in my eyes only way to get the you want is to run this thing over and over again. I know drop chances are a lie in this game, and i aggre that its *** to run this thing 100+ times without getting the weapon you want. But thats the point of an MMORPG i guess. How many times did you have to do raids in WOW for example without getting the equip you want?

LegendaryArcher · April 2016

TheGoodnes wrote: »

How many times did you have to do raids in WOW for example without getting the equip you want?

@TheGoodnes But that's the difference. I'd rather run a raid 300 times than a solo arena 50 times. There's a reason I play MMOs. I like playing with other people. Not saying the RNG system is amazing. I remember I was going for the Engine Guardian's helmet and only got one in well-fitted after over 200 runs. At the same time, when Molag Kena came out, I saved 18 keys and got all 3 (light, medium, heavy) shoulders from it on divines, while I know a few people that have never gotten a single one, and I got my desired mask on the 2nd run, while I've heard of people that are still farming. But the point is, it's way more fun to farm in a group than in an extremely repetitive, longer-than-it-needs-to-be solo instance.

Shader_Shibes · April 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Its so funny how people qq on not getting on the leader boards. Its the leaderboards ffs. Its supposed to be for the 100 best people lol.
Also you don´t need those weapons to dps. You need them to min/max. And if you wanna min/max you can work for your stuff too. Why do people expect to get everything handed to them for doing nothing? Either get good and compete or dont and live with the consequences!

Not necessarily. Some players have the drops they need and so do not run the place any more.

pretzl · April 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

TheGoodnes wrote: »

How many times did you have to do raids in WOW for example without getting the equip you want?

@TheGoodnes But that's the difference. I'd rather run a raid 300 times than a solo arena 50 times. There's a reason I play MMOs. I like playing with other people. Not saying the RNG system is amazing. I remember I was going for the Engine Guardian's helmet and only got one in well-fitted after over 200 runs. At the same time, when Molag Kena came out, I saved 18 keys and got all 3 (light, medium, heavy) shoulders from it on divines, while I know a few people that have never gotten a single one, and I got my desired mask on the 2nd run, while I've heard of people that are still farming. But the point is, it's way more fun to farm in a group than in an extremely repetitive, longer-than-it-needs-to-be solo instance.

Now that you're bringing up the subject;
1. I've done propably 200-250 runs of vWGT so far. 4 helmets total; 1 Infused, 2 impenetrable, 1 well-fitted. SPC and Overwhelming both have 3pc Divines, rest well-fitted.
2. Nearing 350 runs of vICP. 1pc Divines Scathing, 2pc Infused. 7 helmets; 3 divines, rest well-fitted.
3. I've never been dropped a divines shoulder or helmet in anything other than Nerien'Eth (both), Malubeth (only shoulder), Daedroth set (both) and Skoria (only helm). All 5 of my VR chars has opened 100 or more gold key chests.
4. I only have vMA resto, dagger, 2x 1h axe and 1x 2h maul in desirable traits.
5. I've done nearly 500 runs of vDSA and I've never gotten Bow in any trait (yes, I still want this), Resto in precise or Destro in sharpened/precise. These sets are now obsolete, but I still don't get them dropped.
6. I've been on weekly propably close to 200 times (counting both vMA and trials) and I've never gotten anything remotely decent or desirable. Closest I've been is Moondancer chest in Reinforced. I've played this game since early 1.5

Let's talk about the RNG system some more, hm?
I still have to run Kena in 2x Infused, Valkyn in 1x Infused and 1x Divines and a non-set torug's staff. For a min/maxer, this means alot of DPS lost.

Decado · April 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

TheGoodnes wrote: »

How many times did you have to do raids in WOW for example without getting the equip you want?

@TheGoodnes But that's the difference. I'd rather run a raid 300 times than a solo arena 50 times. There's a reason I play MMOs. I like playing with other people. Not saying the RNG system is amazing. I remember I was going for the Engine Guardian's helmet and only got one in well-fitted after over 200 runs. At the same time, when Molag Kena came out, I saved 18 keys and got all 3 (light, medium, heavy) shoulders from it on divines, while I know a few people that have never gotten a single one, and I got my desired mask on the 2nd run, while I've heard of people that are still farming. But the point is, it's way more fun to farm in a group than in an extremely repetitive, longer-than-it-needs-to-be solo instance.

I agree completely I've been saying this for a while, I got my Kena head immediately but have been farming SPC (still not got divines) and it was a lot more fun doing it as a group? We messed around, challenged ourselves, broke mechanics generally had a laugh, I can't tell you how many deathless runs was ruint because a certain friend of mine has a habit of trying to break the map in the most random of places, and you know what? It was hilarious, getting tired of it now but for the first 700 runs it was funny I was sick of malestrom in about 10 runs lol

rokrdt05 · April 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

I don't agree. I run 4 of my characters through the weekly (time allowing) and I always pick up a chest, and repair my gear. I at most use 2 sigils per run as well and still manage a leaderboard time easily. The arena is so easy now, and come next patch with shield changes it will be even easier.

@rokrdt05 I see the confusion. You're on the NA server. On the EU server, you will not get on the leaderboard if you take a single sigil, chest (except the last one), repair gear, charge your weapon, die or kill adds on boss fights. You have to outdps most mechanics. Unless you're a Templar, then you can afford to take one or the other sigil. If you're a DK, every score will get you to the leaderboard. I know that on NA significantly less people are completing vMA. That's why the huge difference. The cutoff value for Sorcerers on EU (100th place) is somewhere in the area of 500k+.

Consider yourself lucky.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

As for the feedback on drop rates of weapons, we are definitely taking a look and appreciate the feedback.

Thank you.

I still have to say I disagree.

As I said previously I do all of those things and occasionally die a few times, I always manage to pull a 500K+. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is I've done this content so much and on a variety of characters that I know almost all there is to know about vMA and it's become "easier" content. I may have the occasional bad run but always end up with a good score. I think more people would have less issues with the leaderboards if RNG didn't play the role it did. I think @pretzl nailed it perfectly. I've done the same amount of runs as he for certain gear and no where near having a complete set of the items I want. I've been farming vCOH since v16 for a Divines helm 20 times a week (no joke) and have never seen one drop. In fact I can count on 1 hand how many helms I've seen drop for me. The first usable helm I was able to get was with the first week of pvper vendor and it's infused.

So honestly we should not be focusing on Leaderboards but rather the overall trait system and RNG system that ZOS has in place as it's one of the worst aspects about this MMO. Leaderboards are there for the top percentile of the games who participate in the content for "extra reward" and many people would not be as upset if the RNG system was so much better or we had some sort of token system in place.

rokrdt05 · April 2016

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

But idk why you guys are getting worked up about the weapons. DB will make these weapons useless with the buff to crafted enchantments. 348 weapon/spell power with set bonuses vs 198 on a Maelstrom Weapon with a sub par special enchant.

The only time they will be useful is when you want to run a poison instead of an enchant.

I don't think sufficient testing has been done to confirm this will be better yet. Enchants are proc'd and not permanent, so they don't give the buff 100% of the time.

I'm not on PTS so I can't test it, but I was under the impression enchants had a 4 second cool down? Or did that get changed in a patch.

But with major Sorc/brutality going you're talking about 420 versus 240, so it would have to be extremely close to a half duration cool down in order for it to be beaten by a Maelstrom Weapon.

And that's not considering that they can be used as set pieces as well. Something tells me the new enchants beat the Maelstrom weapons in a vast majority of cases.

I think many people are over speculating the value of the "enchants" so to speak. Without concrete testing and theorycrafting it's all just that... speculation.

I'd be hard pressed to find that they will out dps certain maelstrom enchants like the destroy staves which does add quite a bit of dps. I'd be interested to see what some of the math inclined theorycrafters such as @Asayre or @hedna123b14_ESO would say regarding the new DB changes coming.

pretzl · April 2016

rokrdt05 wrote: »

I think @pretzl nailed it perfectly. I've done the same amount of runs as he for certain gear and no where near having a complete set of the items I want. I've been farming vCOH since v16 for a Divines helm 20 times a week (no joke) and have never seen one drop. In fact I can count on 1 hand how many helms I've seen drop for me. The first usable helm I was able to get was with the first week of pvper vendor and it's infused.

So honestly we should not be focusing on Leaderboards but rather the overall trait system and RNG system that ZOS has in place as it's one of the worst aspects about this MMO. Leaderboards are there for the top percentile of the games who participate in the content for "extra reward" and many people would not be as upset if the RNG system was so much better or we had some sort of token system in place.

I agree mate, RNG system is absolute garbage, but I don't believe the trait system is bad. I think it's one of the best I've ever seen - especially now that ZOS have gone the length of improving the bad ones!
My problem is with the several layers of RNG involved in this game. First off you have the RNG of actually getting the drop, then it's RNG of which weight it is and then on top of that comes the RNG of the trait. Some traits are, and always will be, more desirable than others, that's just how it's always going to be.
That's why I commend the PvP vendor addition as it allows you to purchase the sets you've been trying to get since your first day in this game. What I dislike is the fact that PvP vendors, atleast seemingly, only sell ONE trait; Infused, which isn't even the most desirable in PvP OR PvE. I believe the PvP vendor system should actually be changed to incorporate the very same RNG system the gold key chests and random dungeons already have - but remove the traits that are obviously not desired such as well-fitted, training and exploration.

What I don't like, however, is the fact that you have the shoddy 2-layer RNG system in place for something as prestigious as vMA.Please, @ZOS_Finn, implement a token system for vMA drops. Currently the RNG involved in that arena is insane and your proposed 50% drop chance is far from the reality us players see every day.