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Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?
    #MOREORBS
  • Solid_Metal
    Solid_Metal
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

    are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price
    "i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"
  • AllPlayAndNoWork
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    Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

    You get what you PAY for.
  • clocksstoppe
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

    are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

    So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

    Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

    are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

    i think what he means is, the idea behind this was for ESO+ members to have something special, not available for purchase without the sub.
    Edited by Mojmir on April 24, 2016 10:44AM
  • Buffler
    Buffler
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

    are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

    So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

    Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.

    How "powerful" it is?

    I want what you are smoking. It is a convienience item pure and simple.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Sounds like jealousy to me, ever heard the term you get what you pay for? well your not paying for anything so you will get what you pay for which is nothing.
    Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

    You get what you PAY for.
    and they ain't paying so they get NOTHING!!!!

  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    Buffler wrote: »
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

    are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

    So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

    Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.

    How "powerful" it is?

    I want what you are smoking. It is a convienience item pure and simple.

    if its what they said, which was it could hold a "*** ton". that clears out alot of bank space. kinda important too some of us.
    Edited by Mojmir on April 24, 2016 10:46AM
  • strikeback1247
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    Y'all need to stop hoarding. How did you manage to fill up a full bank and 8*200 inventory slots? Remember that you can buy new characters next patch so that is at least 140 slots per character.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • clocksstoppe
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    Sounds like jealousy to me, ever heard the term you get what you pay for? well your not paying for anything so you will get what you pay for which is nothing.
    Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

    You get what you PAY for.
    and they ain't paying so they get NOTHING!!!!

    Genius, we want to pay for it.
  • Buffler
    Buffler
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    Sounds like jealousy to me, ever heard the term you get what you pay for? well your not paying for anything so you will get what you pay for which is nothing.
    Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

    You get what you PAY for.
    and they ain't paying so they get NOTHING!!!!

    Genius, we want to pay for it.

    You can....subscribe :)
  • Solid_Metal
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    So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

    Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.

    yes...

    and no, its not about powerfull or not, who give a crap, its just conmvinience, pass me the blunt brah

    and why i not mind paying 5k for that?, because i cant sub, and this is my previous statement
    bedlom wrote: »
    No! Children suffering is unfair. You are just either cheap or poor.

    cause i dont have credit card and by any means cant make it either in this 3rd world country

    fml right?

    if ZoS allowed us to pay eso+ with steam wallet it would be another story, but as for now they not allowed it, steam wallet only usable on buying crown, thus how i support the game

    as you see, i love this game, i support it as long as i can and with the way that i can support it, sub is not an option as for now, thus why i prefer tu support them buy buying the mats bag for 5K
    Edited by Solid_Metal on April 24, 2016 10:52AM
    "i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"
  • Gargath
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    The idea of crafting bags exclusively for subs is very fair for me and I completely agree that subs should be given even more than this.
    They are paying and thus supporting further improvements and to-be-or-not-to-be of this game, and we, non-subs, just use the game content on their expense, from some point of view. Why they should not be rewarded for their devotion ;).

    It time, maybe crafting bags will be a free to use option also for non-subs, just play along and be patient :).
    PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."
  • Wanderinlost
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    I suppose the best answer is to implement an actual loyalty system based on dollar spent like some other games do, Rift, B&S, Wildstar. Let's put the crafting bag at say $1000 worth of loyalty. That sounds about right. We can meter it out so every portion of the bag gets unlocked for every $100 more you pay.
  • Mojmir
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    So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

    Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.

    yes...

    and no, its not about powerfull or not, who give a crap, its just conmvinience, pass me the blunt brah

    and why i not mind paying 5k for that?, because i cant sub, and this is my previous statement
    bedlom wrote: »
    No! Children suffering is unfair. You are just either cheap or poor.

    cause i dont have credit card and by any means cant make it either in this 3rd world country

    fml right?

    if ZoS allowed us to pay eso+ with steam wallet it would be another story, but as for now they not allowed it, steam wallet only usable on buying crown, thus how i support the game

    as you see, i love this game, i support it as long as i can and with the way that i can support it, sub is not an option as for now, thus why i prefer tu support them buy buying the mats bag for 5K

    Id give you one of my bags,your legit
  • Suru
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    Buffler wrote: »
    Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

    This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.


    Suru
  • Sunburnt_Penguin
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    People need to chill out, it's a crafting bag for goodness sake. It doesn't make or break the game for anyone: if it did then you would've left already.

    Given that a lot of people simply buy the DLCs they want for Crowns rather than subbing, it's the best incentive to sub to date and is a smart move by ZO$. It's not unfair, you have access to it if you wish.
  • Hallothiel
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    For all those who can afford to sub, I am happy for you & do not wish to denigrate your continued support of this game - BUT there are people who for one reason or another cannot sub yet support through crown store purchases.

    I can't justify paying a sub every month as my budget is that tight but I can save up for things that I would like such as dlcs etc - should I not be playing as I am not 'supporting the game' enough?

    It just seems that this issue of bags being sub only is very devisive & sets an unhappy precedent.
  • Wanderinlost
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    Suru wrote: »
    Buffler wrote: »
    Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

    This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.

    Good for you. Nobody in this thread in 255 posts has even suggested otherwise. How is this particular feature being on the market(appropriatley priced for its value) detract from that perk you are going to get? When this game went B2P we were given the green light to play and support this game without subbing, many of us have come back and continue to spend based on that. Many of us pay a premium for the flexibility DLC offers. That doesn't mean we spend less or are less loyal customers. Your subscription does not make you more loyal unless you boil loyalty down to dollar spent. 2 years fo sub, is about $200? Well many B2P customers have spent way more than that and have also bought the game, and previously subbed.

    I suppose it is the Non-subs who have been acting in blind loyalty that there value as a customer would not be diminished by having a feature denied at a later date.
  • JadeNaria
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    Valrien wrote: »
    It's a quality of life thing. I can do just fine without the crafting bag...but when I get it it'll be fantastic.

    Trueflame or Haderus NA PC AD
    Talia Shade VR10 Stamina Nightblade
    Divinity Day VR16 Magicka Sorc
    Amaria Day VR16 Magicka DK
    Kali Day Level 28 Magicka Templar - Playing the most now
    Oblivion's Orphans Trading Guild - GM
    Mizery Records Raiding Guild- Member
    Resilient PVP Guild - Member


    SAVE ESO PVP, WE MATTER.
    #FIXPVP

  • Buffler
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    Suru wrote: »
    Buffler wrote: »
    Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

    This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.

    Good for you. Nobody in this thread in 255 posts has even suggested otherwise. How is this particular feature being on the market(appropriatley priced for its value) detract from that perk you are going to get? When this game went B2P we were given the green light to play and support this game without subbing, many of us have come back and continue to spend based on that. Many of us pay a premium for the flexibility DLC offers. That doesn't mean we spend less or are less loyal customers. Your subscription does not make you more loyal unless you boil loyalty down to dollar spent. 2 years fo sub, is about $200? Well many B2P customers have spent way more than that and have also bought the game, and previously subbed.

    I suppose it is the Non-subs who have been acting in blind loyalty that there value as a customer would not be diminished by having a feature denied at a later date.

    Every person that I know who subs, also buys crowns too therefore we double dip.....even MORE reason it should be sub only
  • Wanderinlost
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    Buffler wrote: »
    Suru wrote: »
    Buffler wrote: »
    Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

    This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.

    Good for you. Nobody in this thread in 255 posts has even suggested otherwise. How is this particular feature being on the market(appropriatley priced for its value) detract from that perk you are going to get? When this game went B2P we were given the green light to play and support this game without subbing, many of us have come back and continue to spend based on that. Many of us pay a premium for the flexibility DLC offers. That doesn't mean we spend less or are less loyal customers. Your subscription does not make you more loyal unless you boil loyalty down to dollar spent. 2 years fo sub, is about $200? Well many B2P customers have spent way more than that and have also bought the game, and previously subbed.

    I suppose it is the Non-subs who have been acting in blind loyalty that there value as a customer would not be diminished by having a feature denied at a later date.

    Every person that I know who subs, also buys crowns too therefore we double dip.....even MORE reason it should be sub only

    1 year of sub gets you 18000 credits, you don't have to buy the dlc and you get other benefits like the bag. ESO+ pays a premium but not that much more than the rest of us. The crowns you get and the other features completely offset the cost. There is no reason it should be limited to one segment of the playerbase just because they chose on payment plan over another.
    Edited by Wanderinlost on April 24, 2016 11:26AM
  • Flaminir
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    I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

    ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

    Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

    With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

    I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

    So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.
    GM of the Unholy Legacy
    PC/EU/EP
  • Destruent
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    Lol...you guys know what will happen if it's purchasable in the crownstore?
    people who are subbed since B2P will just: buy crafting bag, buy DLCs they need-->unsubscribe. This doesn't cost me anything, i have lots of crowns, bc there is nothing usefull to spend them on in the crownstore.
    So ZOS will just implement a great feature without getting that much out of it.

    And pls, stop with the pay2win BS. My crafting bag will not kill you in pvp, won't raise my dps by 10% and will not decrese my leaderboard times by some minutes. please just stop with that nonsense.
    Noobplar
  • Wanderinlost
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    Flaminir wrote: »
    I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

    ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

    Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

    With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

    I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

    So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.

    There are other ways to incentivise. They do not need to push people into it by excluding half their clientele who are only here because of the original deal. B2P, microtransaction, DLC. IF we wanted to sub players would not have left in droves to the point of the game stalling. We are here now spending money and buying content, becasue of the understanding we will get everything. Not everything for free but the option to buy. Now they are going back on that by changing the deal.

    Higher subs are good, but this is not the way to do it. I have said it before but how is this going to retain subs any better than before? The lack of a crafting bag was not what drove people away in the first place. It won't be what keeps them. What it will do is all but insure that we cannot count on this as a real B2P game anymore. If i have to I will sub to access the feature, but it will be 1-2 months per year and they will never get anything other than that from me again. It will always be a barrier. How many others will see this as I do is hard to say but if it is obvious after a few hours I am sure many others will figure it out as well.
  • Tonnopesce
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    I' ve spend more or less 350€ in the game playng Since beta is a good thing that i get someting for my sub especially now that eso is b2p and i'm subbing for.... Nothing
    Signature


  • Flaminir
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    Flaminir wrote: »
    I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

    ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

    Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

    With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

    I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

    So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.

    There are other ways to incentivise. They do not need to push people into it by excluding half their clientele who are only here because of the original deal. B2P, microtransaction, DLC. IF we wanted to sub players would not have left in droves to the point of the game stalling. We are here now spending money and buying content, becasue of the understanding we will get everything. Not everything for free but the option to buy. Now they are going back on that by changing the deal.

    Higher subs are good, but this is not the way to do it. I have said it before but how is this going to retain subs any better than before? The lack of a crafting bag was not what drove people away in the first place. It won't be what keeps them. What it will do is all but insure that we cannot count on this as a real B2P game anymore. If i have to I will sub to access the feature, but it will be 1-2 months per year and they will never get anything other than that from me again. It will always be a barrier. How many others will see this as I do is hard to say but if it is obvious after a few hours I am sure many others will figure it out as well.

    TBH... most other ways I've seen to incentivize have been headed towards P2W.... inventory management is about as far away from this as you can get.

    Personally... how they incentivize ESO+ doesn't bother me, whether its crafting bags or something else... but for it to work they have to make it something big & substantial.... and it doesn't matter what that is, it will always then generate debate of people saying they want that feature without a sub! Human nature.

    You're right I suspect... many players stopped subbing in droves... because what was the point? They got virtually nothing useful so stopped paying the money. ZoS clearly need to be able to demonstrate a forecastable and consistent revenue stream to the money men to keep the game going and allow for future development. So they added crafting bags to it... a much desired, and yet non P2W feature.

    The specifics as to whether its bags or not here don't matter.... its the business model / revenue stream enhancement that they are going for. & that would be the same whatever they bundled in with ESO+
    GM of the Unholy Legacy
    PC/EU/EP
  • MarrazzMist
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    Annalyse wrote: »
    I do believe that subbing should have more incentive, and a crafting bag with infinite space would be great for that.

    That said, as someone who cannot sub every single month (and thus cannot ever, because having and then losing such a crafting bag would be too painful!), I hope they will at least consider putting more bank upgrades in the crown store, or maybe some limited 30ish space crafting bag. I'd be happy with anything at this point. Logging in and out takes a very long time so using mules frustrates me.

    @Annalyse, just in case no-one else mentioned this (I didn't read all the comments), you do not lose access to grafting bag, when you lose sub. You can no longer put anything in there, but your stuff isn't lost.

    So you may want to sub for a month, gather huge piles of mats, and enjoy the fruits of your labor couple of months.

  • Gidorick
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    I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

    @Flaminir is right, ESO+ does need incentives. This is something I have been shouting about on the forums since Feb 2015, when the B2P plan was announced (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1). ESO+ as it is, isn't good enough to subscribe. ESO+ should make subscribers feel like they are getting something special and should make people want the benefits. It should NOT make people feel like their *insert game mechanic here* is gimped if they DON'T subscribe.

    To me the subscription benefit MOST akin to this (in 'spirit') is SWTOR's sub benefit of being able to run and boy, do people hate that benefit. It's not that you can't get anywhere in SWTOR without the sub, it's that you can get there FASTER if you do.

    There are other benefits ZOS could give to subscribers. Like...
    • Crown Store Discounts
    • Early access to DLC
    • Exclusive Crown Store section that contains:
      • Exclusive mount & pet "skins"
      • Early access to pets and costumes
      • Longer Access to limited time mounts
      • Faster rotation of limited items
    • Additional character slots
    • The ability to join additional Guilds
    • Monthly subscriber treasure maps

    In light of how ZOS has been treating DLCs with Collectors editions I also believe ESO+ should get:
    Free ESO+ dependent access to
    • Collectors Edition Mount
    • Collectors Edition Pet
    and they should also get
    • Crown Experience Pack

    And the NUMBER ONE thing that ESO+ should have:
    • DLC ownership over time. There are many ways this could be accomplished fairly for ZOS and players. You get DLC for subscribing for a period of time.

    What do NONE of these suggestions do? None of these suggestions put a fix for a game mechanic we have complained about since just about day one behind the subscription.

    ZOS is trying to take advantage of it's player base by trying to strongarm us into subscribing. It's a shame how many people seem like they are going to re-up because of this.

    ZOS wins... because they are playing a dirty game.

    Edited by Gidorick on April 24, 2016 12:37PM
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

    Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
  • EZgoin76
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    I think it's completely fair to give us subs something worthwhile and substantial for subbing. That being said. I also like a couple of @Gidorick s ideas. No not the damn Auction Horse either. :smiley:

    Instead of giving non-subs the same crafting bag subs are getting. At least put something in the crown store to alleviate non-subs inventory problems. By this I don't mean the extra character slots to make mules either. I mean a per character bag that can hold so many items.

    500 crown bag = 50 spaces
    1000 crown bag = 100 spaces
    1500 crown bag = 150 spaces

    Doesn't have to be those prices. It's just an example but you get my point.

    That way subs still get something exclusive and non-subs have a way to carry more stuff.
    I want to change the world. I'm just to lazy to do it.
This discussion has been closed.