Y'all need to stop hoarding. How did you manage to fill up a full bank and 8*200 inventory slots? Remember that you can buy new characters next patch so that is at least 140 slots per character.

clocksstoppe wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like jealousy to me, ever heard the term you get what you pay for? well your not paying for anything so you will get what you pay for which is nothing.

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

You get what you PAY for.

and they ain't paying so they get NOTHING!!!!

Genius, we want to pay for it.

You can....subscribe

The idea of crafting bags exclusively for subs is very fair for me and I completely agree that subs should be given even more than this.
They are paying and thus supporting further improvements and to-be-or-not-to-be of this game, and we, non-subs, just use the game content on their expense, from some point of view. Why they should not be rewarded for their devotion .

It time, maybe crafting bags will be a free to use option also for non-subs, just play along and be patient .

People need to chill out, it's a crafting bag for goodness sake. It doesn't make or break the game for anyone: if it did then you would've left already.

Given that a lot of people simply buy the DLCs they want for Crowns rather than subbing, it's the best incentive to sub to date and is a smart move by ZO$. It's not unfair, you have access to it if you wish.

Suru wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.

Good for you. Nobody in this thread in 255 posts has even suggested otherwise. How is this particular feature being on the market(appropriatley priced for its value) detract from that perk you are going to get? When this game went B2P we were given the green light to play and support this game without subbing, many of us have come back and continue to spend based on that. Many of us pay a premium for the flexibility DLC offers. That doesn't mean we spend less or are less loyal customers. Your subscription does not make you more loyal unless you boil loyalty down to dollar spent. 2 years fo sub, is about $200? Well many B2P customers have spent way more than that and have also bought the game, and previously subbed.

I suppose it is the Non-subs who have been acting in blind loyalty that there value as a customer would not be diminished by having a feature denied at a later date.

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

This pretty much sums up my feelings. I sub out of loyalty not the perks.

Good for you. Nobody in this thread in 255 posts has even suggested otherwise. How is this particular feature being on the market(appropriatley priced for its value) detract from that perk you are going to get? When this game went B2P we were given the green light to play and support this game without subbing, many of us have come back and continue to spend based on that. Many of us pay a premium for the flexibility DLC offers. That doesn't mean we spend less or are less loyal customers. Your subscription does not make you more loyal unless you boil loyalty down to dollar spent. 2 years fo sub, is about $200? Well many B2P customers have spent way more than that and have also bought the game, and previously subbed.

I suppose it is the Non-subs who have been acting in blind loyalty that there value as a customer would not be diminished by having a feature denied at a later date.

Every person that I know who subs, also buys crowns too therefore we double dip.....even MORE reason it should be sub only

I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.

Flaminir wrote: »

I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.

There are other ways to incentivise. They do not need to push people into it by excluding half their clientele who are only here because of the original deal. B2P, microtransaction, DLC. IF we wanted to sub players would not have left in droves to the point of the game stalling. We are here now spending money and buying content, becasue of the understanding we will get everything. Not everything for free but the option to buy. Now they are going back on that by changing the deal.

Higher subs are good, but this is not the way to do it. I have said it before but how is this going to retain subs any better than before? The lack of a crafting bag was not what drove people away in the first place. It won't be what keeps them. What it will do is all but insure that we cannot count on this as a real B2P game anymore. If i have to I will sub to access the feature, but it will be 1-2 months per year and they will never get anything other than that from me again. It will always be a barrier. How many others will see this as I do is hard to say but if it is obvious after a few hours I am sure many others will figure it out as well.

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

I said this at the start of the thread but it got lost so I'll say it again here in as close to a TLDR form as I can manage...

ZoS may indeed may make more money up front by making it available in the crown store... but for them this isn't just about getting the money it's HOW they get the money!

Crown store microtransactions are not consistent or easily forecast able.... Subs are.

With higher subs, ZoS has a FORECAST-ABLE and consistent revenue stream... this is essential when managing a project of this size, and discussing development etc with shareholders.

I would suggest they have a need to increase the number of subs after many people dropped them.... this is an ideal way.

So it's not about what people consider fair... or about being able to give them money via a microtransacxtion... it's HOW they get the money that's important here.

There are other ways to incentivise. They do not need to push people into it by excluding half their clientele who are only here because of the original deal. B2P, microtransaction, DLC. IF we wanted to sub players would not have left in droves to the point of the game stalling. We are here now spending money and buying content, becasue of the understanding we will get everything. Not everything for free but the option to buy. Now they are going back on that by changing the deal.

Higher subs are good, but this is not the way to do it. I have said it before but how is this going to retain subs any better than before? The lack of a crafting bag was not what drove people away in the first place. It won't be what keeps them. What it will do is all but insure that we cannot count on this as a real B2P game anymore. If i have to I will sub to access the feature, but it will be 1-2 months per year and they will never get anything other than that from me again. It will always be a barrier. How many others will see this as I do is hard to say but if it is obvious after a few hours I am sure many others will figure it out as well.

TBH... most other ways I've seen to incentivize have been headed towards P2W.... inventory management is about as far away from this as you can get.

Personally... how they incentivize ESO+ doesn't bother me, whether its crafting bags or something else... but for it to work they have to make it something big & substantial.... and it doesn't matter what that is, it will always then generate debate of people saying they want that feature without a sub! Human nature.

You're right I suspect... many players stopped subbing in droves... because what was the point? They got virtually nothing useful so stopped paying the money. ZoS clearly need to be able to demonstrate a forecastable and consistent revenue stream to the money men to keep the game going and allow for future development. So they added crafting bags to it... a much desired, and yet non P2W feature.

The specifics as to whether its bags or not here don't matter.... its the business model / revenue stream enhancement that they are going for. & that would be the same whatever they bundled in with ESO+

I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

@Flaminir is right, ESO+ does need incentives. This is something I have been shouting about on the forums since Feb 2015, when the B2P plan was announced (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1). ESO+ as it is, isn't good enough to subscribe. ESO+ should make subscribers feel like they are getting something special and should make people want the benefits. It should NOT make people feel like their *insert game mechanic here* is gimped if they DON'T subscribe.

To me the subscription benefit MOST akin to this (in 'spirit') is SWTOR's sub benefit of being able to run and boy, do people hate that benefit. It's not that you can't get anywhere in SWTOR without the sub, it's that you can get there FASTER if you do.

There are other benefits ZOS could give to subscribers. Like...

• Crown Store Discounts
• Early access to DLC
• Exclusive Crown Store section that contains:
  • Exclusive mount & pet "skins"
  • Early access to pets and costumes
  • Longer Access to limited time mounts
  • Faster rotation of limited items
• Additional character slots
• The ability to join additional Guilds
• Monthly subscriber treasure maps

In light of how ZOS has been treating DLCs with Collectors editions I also believe ESO+ should get:
Free ESO+ dependent access to

• Collectors Edition Mount
• Collectors Edition Pet

and they should also get

• Crown Experience Pack

And the NUMBER ONE thing that ESO+ should have:

• DLC ownership over time. There are many ways this could be accomplished fairly for ZOS and players. You get DLC for subscribing for a period of time.

What do NONE of these suggestions do? None of these suggestions put a fix for a game mechanic we have complained about since just about day one behind the subscription.

ZOS is trying to take advantage of it's player base by trying to strongarm us into subscribing. It's a shame how many people seem like they are going to re-up because of this.

ZOS wins... because they are playing a dirty game.

Gidorick wrote: »

I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

@Flaminir is right, ESO+ does need incentives. This is something I have been shouting about on the forums since Feb 2015, when the B2P plan was announced (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1). ESO+ as it is, isn't good enough to subscribe. ESO+ should make subscribers feel like they are getting something special and should make people want the benefits. It should NOT make people feel like their *insert game mechanic here* is gimped if they DON'T subscribe.

To me the subscription benefit MOST akin to this (in 'spirit') is SWTOR's sub benefit of being able to run and boy, do people hate that benefit. It's not that you can't get anywhere in SWTOR without the sub, it's that you can get there FASTER if you do.

There are other benefits ZOS could give to subscribers. Like...

• Crown Store Discounts
• Early access to DLC
• Exclusive Crown Store section that contains:
  • Exclusive mount & pet "skins"
  • Early access to pets and costumes
  • Longer Access to limited time mounts
  • Faster rotation of limited items
• Additional character slots
• The ability to join additional Guilds
• Monthly subscriber treasure maps

In light of how ZOS has been treating DLCs with Collectors editions I also believe ESO+ should get:
Free ESO+ dependent access to

• Collectors Edition Mount
• Collectors Edition Pet

and they should also get

• Crown Experience Pack

And the NUMBER ONE thing that ESO+ should have:

• DLC ownership over time. There are many ways this could be accomplished fairly for ZOS and players. You get DLC for subscribing for a period of time.

What do NONE of these suggestions do? None of these suggestions put a fix for a game mechanic we have complained about since just about day one behind the subscription.

ZOS is trying to take advantage of it's player base by trying to strongarm us into subscribing. It's a shame how many people seem like they are going to re-up because of this.

ZOS wins... because they are playing a dirty game.

Get a grip pal, strongarming us lol.....nobody is forcing anybody to do anything

Buffler wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

@Flaminir is right, ESO+ does need incentives. This is something I have been shouting about on the forums since Feb 2015, when the B2P plan was announced (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1). ESO+ as it is, isn't good enough to subscribe. ESO+ should make subscribers feel like they are getting something special and should make people want the benefits. It should NOT make people feel like their *insert game mechanic here* is gimped if they DON'T subscribe.

To me the subscription benefit MOST akin to this (in 'spirit') is SWTOR's sub benefit of being able to run and boy, do people hate that benefit. It's not that you can't get anywhere in SWTOR without the sub, it's that you can get there FASTER if you do.

There are other benefits ZOS could give to subscribers. Like...

• Crown Store Discounts
• Early access to DLC
• Exclusive Crown Store section that contains:
  • Exclusive mount & pet "skins"
  • Early access to pets and costumes
  • Longer Access to limited time mounts
  • Faster rotation of limited items
• Additional character slots
• The ability to join additional Guilds
• Monthly subscriber treasure maps

In light of how ZOS has been treating DLCs with Collectors editions I also believe ESO+ should get:
Free ESO+ dependent access to

• Collectors Edition Mount
• Collectors Edition Pet

and they should also get

• Crown Experience Pack

And the NUMBER ONE thing that ESO+ should have:

• DLC ownership over time. There are many ways this could be accomplished fairly for ZOS and players. You get DLC for subscribing for a period of time.

What do NONE of these suggestions do? None of these suggestions put a fix for a game mechanic we have complained about since just about day one behind the subscription.

ZOS is trying to take advantage of it's player base by trying to strongarm us into subscribing. It's a shame how many people seem like they are going to re-up because of this.

ZOS wins... because they are playing a dirty game.

Get a grip pal, strongarming us lol.....nobody is forcing anybody to do anything

It's called "Dramatic effect" @Buffler

Gidorick wrote: »

I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

Thanks, think it's time to call it a night though. :P Hopefully you will have more luck with this than I XD


Sort of blows my mind how so many are supportive of exclusivity when it offers them zero additional benefit. Like most of the population not having even the option to purchase a key feature is somehow a good thing.

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they do show up on the crown store, in some manner, how will you feel?

heheh.. @jcasini222ub17_ESO I believe that term is "Eating Crow"