Shunravi wrote: »

It's the same mechanics but easier. I thought you said you wanted to do it for fun? So why care about loot and such?

There's a level of "easy" where it isn't fun any more (which is why elite complain about nerfs, because it will get boring for them).

And I don't care much about loot but many people do. It's their incentive.

Mentioned it because it's not the same.

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Play normal mode. It's exactly the same.

No it's not.

- Normal is FAR TOO EASY - sleeping mode

play without equipment or CP

No, YOU do that in the nerfed vet versions ;-)

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

It's the same mechanics but easier. I thought you said you wanted to do it for fun? So why care about loot and such?

There's a level of "easy" where it isn't fun any more (which is why elite complain about nerfs, because it will get boring for them).

And I don't care much about loot but many people do. It's their incentive.

Mentioned it because it's not the same.

So ask them to buff normal instead of nerf hard.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Speaking of the rewards, sets drop in normal version, in vr15 though, but the difference only matters for optimized build.
Monster helmets are sold at pvp merchant.
So whats the issue?

The issue is that everybody wants an optimized build. Who wants to blow expensive gold tempers on VR15 gear?

Who needs gold gear if he doesn't want to compete on leaderboards? btw. if you want an optimized build you usually need those vMSA-weapons...if you can do this you can also do those two dungeons.

I've never even LOOKED at a leaderboard in game, much less cared if I was on one, but I still want my gear to be the best possible whether I am doing PvE, PvP or just role-playing. The important thing is that I decide which gear I "need", not you or anybody else.

Seems like ZOS should just send a mail to everyone with all the gear available...maybe after they did this we can have challenging content again

hydrocynus wrote: »

So ask them to buff normal instead of nerf hard.

I haven't asked for anything ! And if asked, I'd have preferred normal buffed too. But we're commenting vets being nerfed, that's a fact...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

hydrocynus wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

Agree. Leave us two challenging dungeons. You can have the rest

Remember that I did not ask for anything and that I don't care either way if the dungeons get nerfed - I'm happy either way.

That said, and while I understand this argument "leave us 2 dungeons, you can have the rest", people could also say "you've enjoyed those dungeons without nerfs for 8 months now, it's our turn".

Thinking about it, maybe ZOS should really completely BUFF two dungeons every three months, in a turn.
Would a super-buffed version of elden hollow or spindleclutch be appealing to you ?
(remember the days when Praxin was the most challenging fight in the entire game...)

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

Agree. Leave us two challenging dungeons. You can have the rest

Remember that I did not ask for anything and that I don't care either way if the dungeons get nerfed - I'm happy either way.

That said, and while I understand this argument "leave us 2 dungeons, you can have the rest", people could also say "you've enjoyed those dungeons without nerfs for 8 months now, it's our turn".

Thinking about it, maybe ZOS should really completely BUFF two dungeons every three months, in a turn.
Would a super-buffed version of elden hollow or spindleclutch be appealing to you ?
(remember the days when Praxin was the most challenging fight in the entire game...)

A buffing rotation could be interesting...

But they would absolutely have to remove them from weekly undaunted. There is absolutely no way 'the return of praxin' should interfere with pledges.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

Agree. Leave us two challenging dungeons. You can have the rest

Thinking about it, maybe ZOS should really completely BUFF two dungeons every three months, in a turn.
Would a super-buffed version of elden hollow or spindleclutch be appealing to you ?
(remember the days when Praxin was the most challenging fight in the entire game...)

That would be cool and they could add a nice skin you can achieve for each of those.

Shunravi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

Agree. Leave us two challenging dungeons. You can have the rest

Remember that I did not ask for anything and that I don't care either way if the dungeons get nerfed - I'm happy either way.

That said, and while I understand this argument "leave us 2 dungeons, you can have the rest", people could also say "you've enjoyed those dungeons without nerfs for 8 months now, it's our turn".

Thinking about it, maybe ZOS should really completely BUFF two dungeons every three months, in a turn.
Would a super-buffed version of elden hollow or spindleclutch be appealing to you ?
(remember the days when Praxin was the most challenging fight in the entire game...)

A buffing rotation could be interesting...

But they would absolutely have to remove them from weekly undaunted. There is absolutely no way 'the return of praxin' should interfere with pledges.

I approve. Give me back the old Praxin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Play normal mode. It's exactly the same.

No it's not.

- Normal is FAR TOO EASY - sleeping mode

play without equipment or CP

No, YOU do that in the nerfed vet versions ;-)

So...this argument has come down to "NO U"? That's helpful.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are the one trying to force your playstyle onto everyone.

Wrong, we want a small part of the game remain challenging. Others want the whole game in easy-mode. can you see the difference?

Agree. Leave us two challenging dungeons. You can have the rest

Remember that I did not ask for anything and that I don't care either way if the dungeons get nerfed - I'm happy either way.

That said, and while I understand this argument "leave us 2 dungeons, you can have the rest", people could also say "you've enjoyed those dungeons without nerfs for 8 months now, it's our turn".

Thinking about it, maybe ZOS should really completely BUFF two dungeons every three months, in a turn.
Would a super-buffed version of elden hollow or spindleclutch be appealing to you ?
(remember the days when Praxin was the most challenging fight in the entire game...)

Sorry, but you know nothing, Jon Snow... These dungeons were nerfed multiple times already.
Also I dont want Spindleclutch, something new would be much better.

It takes balls to say no to stupid player base. I sense ZOS is lacking in that department.

Kurimugann wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

I'm not for nerfing content, because I can complete the dungeons fine. Maybe if elitists would stop being *** and help new players with content and accept players that have a DPS time of a few seconds above a minute in trials then maybe people wouldn't call for nerfs.

Lots of "elitist" publish guides, walkthrough and so on in forums/youtube and also answer questions ingame. Biggest problem i see with "pugs" is the lack of communication. If the guys don't even talk in groupchat they cannot expect to get helped.

edit: there are also lots of guilds who teach new people and help them ingame...just find them, they are real

There's your reality, and then there's the reality of people who came across the wrong "Elitists" game after game, year after year and were told year after year that they would never be good enough. That's the sad part of a game that is meant for older teens/adults to play is that the people know better than to trust anyone to be nice online. They exist, I met some, but things like "You should quit for the good of the community" or "Don't group that person, they do not know how to play" are CARVED in us, well in me at least.

Back to OP, no I am not open to nerfing, especially if it did not need it. But nerfed or not, I'll never find a group nice enough to accept my Magicka Khajiit Sorceress/Werewolf to even try it. and Casuals are not all filthy, the (Bad) Hardcores are the ones who with filthy mouths.

Well, if any person you meet says this to you, maybe youre looking in wrong places? The only toxic places in this game are this forum (cause theres no way to attract Zos' attention except QQ) and casual pugs.
About flithy-mouthed hardcores... I only met 2, and I play this game for more than a year. But I've lost count how many bad players that I saw in pugs were bashing teammates, especially healers and tanks, for their own mistakes, in a very degrading words, and were absolutely unwilling to cooperate. So I dont believe about "super bad, but super friendly" casuals, sorry. My experience with pugging says otherwise.
Also hardcore players are posting guides and videos, as well as testing results and dungeon tactics - its all online.

P.S. I've never seen players with "non-minmaxed" race excluded from pugs, and never heard about that. Last time I did a gold pledge with argonian Magplar dd, and the run was very positive, with friend requests after we defeated the boss. Since I pug pretty often, it cant be that common... In any case, a friendly guild would solve your issue.

P.P.S. Also, why would you want to group with "hardcores" if you hate them? Group with casuals and new players, so you'll be at the same grounds.

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I'm no casual by any means, but a 99% PvE (solo-) player. I do know that there's content I'm not really able to do and probably never will, but I can live with that. It's up to those who can, and they should have the fun they want with what the game currently has to offer with this more difficult and more challenging content. I don't need it to be nerfed just to do a "Sunday's afternoon walk" through that content while the more skilled players are bored to death after a nerf. This doesn't make sense at all. For the Eight's and the Three's sake, leave the challenging content as it is.

I think they would do it because they don't want to lose customers especially if most of the player base is mostly new and unskilled. Most wouldn't even log into a forum to complain, they would just move on to another game. In the end it's all about money, imo. Zos appears to constantly market to new players. This isn't new as most MMO's start hardcore but over time get easier to attract and keep new players or smaller to keep their core players.

On another note.
Some players here may has the luxury of telling others if they don't like it then maybe the game is not for you, so leave. But I don't think Zos would say the same thing as their income is determined by the number of players they have and the spending they do. New players who don't have that much time to play will probably spend more in the cash shop to make up for lack of playing time.

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I'm no casual by any means, but a 99% PvE (solo-) player. I do know that there's content I'm not really able to do and probably never will, but I can live with that. It's up to those who can, and they should have the fun they want with what the game currently has to offer with this more difficult and more challenging content. I don't need it to be nerfed just to do a "Sunday's afternoon walk" through that content while the more skilled players are bored to death after a nerf. This doesn't make sense at all. For the Eight's and the Three's sake, leave the challenging content as it is.

I think they would do it because they don't want to lose customers especially if most of the player base is mostly new and unskilled. Most wouldn't even log into a forum to complain, they would just move on to another game. In the end it's all about money, imo. Zos appears to constantly market to new players. This isn't new as most MMO's start hardcore but over time get easier to attract and keep new players or smaller to keep their core players.

Why are you assuming that those players are even interested in buying IC dlc or doing group content?
It consists of ganking/farming grounds and these 2 dungeons.
Also, even if there's a statistic that many players dont do dungeons, it doesnt mean that they will do them after nerfs. The main target audience of this game are TES fans, that werent playing mmos before and probably never will. The game mostly consists of solo content anyway, and casuals on forums are not "typical" casuals in any sense, since theyre dedicated enough to discuss on these topics, farming golden gear etc. I guess the majority just plays the game...
Speaking of new players, there's one more issue: the game doesnt teach you hwo to play it, and solo content has been nerfed so many times that you simply dont need to avoid red/interrupt etc. New players are getting used to it and veteran dungeons become an unpleasant surprise for them. It doesnt mean the dungeons are hard. Its all about contrasts.