good new Fengrush video for you

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · April 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

If you think Im under the impression ZOS devs simply do not care at all about players, including PVPers, youd be incorrect. I think Brian Wheeler is a good dev who does care, but he is limited on what he can do. When the community makes an uproar, he is empowered to create content that otherwise would have no real demand. It is in the same fashion that player housing is brought in for those players that want it as well. I encourage people not to attack each other over these issues like I asked in the video though. It doesnt actually help at all, and infighting only derails that sort of thing. So the commenters that are purely attacking one side or another add no value in making the game better. Discussing issues iwith those ideas is helpful though.

I dont think these IC changes will happen in 3-6 months as I believe they may be able to. Not only do the PVE DLCs incoming take precedence - but now PVP lead dev team has been tasked with arena/BG as their full time project. Id rather see IC touched up and improved with arena/BG coming after it, but I dont think that will happen now.

@FENGRUSH We agree on a lot of things, AoE caps, some of the direction Zenimax is taking, class balance, etc etc. I agree with your assessment about the corporate structure but not your blanket statements on it. Trust me, if anyone at the studio came up with an idea (Brian Wheeler or anyone on his team for example) that cracked the mystery. The higher ups are not going to dismiss the opportunity to PR a huge improvement in Cyrodiil performance. Even if they had to pull some programmers off other projects to get it done, they would. It's been the biggest criticism for well over a year and they would jump at the opportunity to PR that like they did with getting rid of bots.

Like I said your not a programmer and that is fine. I mess with it from time to time, UDK and Unity game engines. I understand php, xml, java, C#, Json so I will try my best the explain it. When Wheeler talked about Cyrodiil performance everything he said made sense to me. He wasn't just drawing pictures, he was talking about CollisionDetection (laymen terms: as it may be called something else but most know what that term means). That means that everything in the game that is within say a 40m radius around your character, the server is sending you all the information about those objects every frame. In Cyrodiil, the radius is much larger than in other zones. So the information your getting from server can potentially be much larger than anywhere else. If you add on top of that every player in that radius is bouncing information to each other.

How much and what kind of information? Just imagine all the passives, procs, buffs, etc that you have at veteran level verse your character at level 30. Multiply that by the number of people on screen. You can imagine how congested it can become. This has nothing to do with the Lightning Patch. This is why the non-vet campaigns don't suffer the same performance issues vet ones do. It's not that BWB somehow skipped Patch 1.2.

Can it be improved? Of course but yeah it will have to be in incremental patches cause it's likely going to require a lot of system overhaul. I am with ya though, sometimes it does seem they are going backwards. If we're going to see change for the better, it has to be through constructive input that address the core of the issue and not just what theories people have. And yes, I do believe they are being honest about this particular issue.

Tandor · April 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Can I suggest that if someone posts a video and wants everyone to watch it (especially as a pre-condition of entering into the discussion), they don't open the topic by saying:-

"I recommend at least watching to ~17 min so you new people can see how things used to be."

Not only does it come across as intensely patronising to new players, but it also makes it quite clear that there''s no need for anyone who isn't a new player to even watch it to that point.

Given that introduction to the topic, it's absurd for veteran players to be criticised for joining in the discussion here without having watched the video!

I agree that OP could have curated the video a little better. You don't need 17 minutes to participate in this discussion. If you are very familiar with PvP and this games history, you may not need any . But everyone can at least watch about three. His entire point is summarized HERE at 16min into the video.

I even transcribed it. OP if you are still reading, just copy this into your original title post.

I make this video and I show these things for a reason. A lot of people responding to my videos, they don't know the backstory of this game. They don't know how it went from something functional to something that got drastically changed; and when they made this change, they refused to roll it back. They said "It's more important to get rid of the bots, then have a functional Cyrodiil." And at the time, there were thousands. Thousands and thousands of people in Cyrodiil. It was huge! They would have like seven servers that held three times the population than they do today. Today, the servers hold maybe a third of the population of what they used to - and they run terribly. You could have 100v100v100 at one keep and it wasn't breaking. The game ran fluidly, it was an epic siege. That's the game they built. It's gone. They cant bring it back. There is no amount of changes that can bring it back. So the game they spent years developing, in one patch, they got rid of it - because of bad press.

The rest of the video just contains examples that demonstrate the above statement, if you require more evidence, then start from the beginning of the video and watch all the old PvP videos that confirm the claims in the aforementioned statement.

Thanks for clarifying all that, and for confirming that contrary to the other aspect of the OP's introduction, this is another PVP thread that belongs on the PvP forum.

Sallington · April 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Even if you had different code in Cyrodiil vs everywhere else (assuming this could be done), you'd then have bots farming every PvE spot to sell gold. Then again, having them all in such a limited space should make banning them a much easier task.

I actually agree completely with what Fengrush suggested for removing botters: hire more people and ban every single one of them. The way they are (were) profiting from botting is illegal and unethical anyway. No sympathy for the cheaters.

Banning those guys is like playing whack a mole. You cannot just ban on an individual basis. You also cannot just blanket ban countries because they will simply use a proxy. Just not a feasible solution.

It's a lot easier to limit in a subscription-based game, since they would need to create a new $15 account every time they wanted to get back in the game. F2P though, buy the box once and create all the accounts you want.

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Can I suggest that if someone posts a video and wants everyone to watch it (especially as a pre-condition of entering into the discussion), they don't open the topic by saying:-

"I recommend at least watching to ~17 min so you new people can see how things used to be."

Not only does it come across as intensely patronising to new players, but it also makes it quite clear that there''s no need for anyone who isn't a new player to even watch it to that point.

Given that introduction to the topic, it's absurd for veteran players to be criticised for joining in the discussion here without having watched the video!

I agree that OP could have curated the video a little better. You don't need 17 minutes to participate in this discussion. If you are very familiar with PvP and this games history, you may not need any . But everyone can at least watch about three. His entire point is summarized HERE at 16min into the video.

I even transcribed it. OP if you are still reading, just copy this into your original title post.

I make this video and I show these things for a reason. A lot of people responding to my videos, they don't know the backstory of this game. They don't know how it went from something functional to something that got drastically changed; and when they made this change, they refused to roll it back. They said "It's more important to get rid of the bots, then have a functional Cyrodiil." And at the time, there were thousands. Thousands and thousands of people in Cyrodiil. It was huge! They would have like seven servers that held three times the population than they do today. Today, the servers hold maybe a third of the population of what they used to - and they run terribly. You could have 100v100v100 at one keep and it wasn't breaking. The game ran fluidly, it was an epic siege. That's the game they built. It's gone. They cant bring it back. There is no amount of changes that can bring it back. So the game they spent years developing, in one patch, they got rid of it - because of bad press.

The rest of the video just contains examples that demonstrate the above statement, if you require more evidence, then start from the beginning of the video and watch all the old PvP videos that confirm the claims in the aforementioned statement.

Thanks for clarifying all that, and for confirming that contrary to the other aspect of the OP's introduction, this is another PVP thread that belongs on the PvP forum.

This is not a pvp thread, the things being discussed here effect pvp and pve, framerate loss and crashes are becoming prevelent on all platforms across the whole grid.

MaxwellC · April 2016

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Unfortunately you're incorrect when it comes to your analysis. BwB doesn't suffer as much performance problems due to the low population (Unless it's prime time). It was said that CP was the main issue as the server must calculate the proc rates of CP and the benefits vs. another player(s) benefits but unfortunately with the introduction to CP-less Campaigns that theory has been crushed.

Many players including myself suffer from lag in Azura star, heck when a zerg of EP was in IC Arena it lagged so bad I thought I was in a battle for the last keep before the emperor would be dethroned.

You're not grasping Business, any company will definitely bite the bullet to keep bad PR off of them so the good can come through because that in-terms = more sales for them. Fengrush was right when that patch that did a major system update introducing counter measures to the plaguing bot issue that various outlets like IGN covered, it pretty much wrecked everything.

Lastly it doesn't take someone with some or no programming experience to understand what a programmer is attempting to stay or word that my friend is the cognitive process every intelligent human being has, so for you to try to discredit someone else because they're not a programmer that is just flat out wrong. Just because you "Mess around" in certain programs doesn't make you a programmer because if that's the case then i'm a programmer and most likely everyone who's someone tech savvy is a programmer too.

As a person who had to create an anti virus that can scan a computer and others for a school project I think I know quite a bit about programming myself

Cathexis · April 2016

@MaxwellCrystal
@Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Neither of you are incorrect about things in general, but as I understand it, the bot countermeasures that were instituted included checks which verified all the actions of all the players (I can only assume to look for patterns of behaviour that clearly indicated botting). The servers weren't designed for that and it effectively doubled the server load. That is when the problem began.

The bigger issue in my mind is why do we care if people bot, if it deteriorates the overall quality of the game more to put in counter measures. What are we preventing exactly? A reduction in the amount of grinding people have to do? An ingame economy with surplus goods?

I'd rather have a working game with less of a grind than a *** game with a long ass grind, wouldn't you?

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · April 2016

@MaxwellCrystal I am not trying to discredit Fengrush by saying he isn't a programmer. He said "in his own way" that he doesn't understand it in a way that a programmer would. He also seemed to lack value from Matt's analyze of FPS and Latency during different patches. To a programmer who is trying to optimize their systems, these are valuable tools and explanations that make sense.

Not trying to be condescending either, Fengrush is a smart guy and he has a lot of insight on the game. Just because programming isn't something he is interested in doesn't make him less intelligent or what he says less valuable. Generally, like I said I agree with him on many subjects.

Anyone who told you CP had that effect on BWB was an troll. BWB has had CP active all the way up to the recent patch.

I mess around in game engines like Unity and Unreal UDK. Recently been messing with CryEngine SDK. These are game engines which is what games like these are designed on. I am by no means a pro but that does give me abit more understanding than your average tech savvy person trying to make sense of game mechanics. These programs behave quite differently than say Microsoft VS. In this case, when Wheeler did the diagram I could completely relate to what he was saying about how performance is being affected and why. Also his answer about the Lightning patch and the client taking the hit because lighting effects puts more stress on performance. it's actually one of the more demanding.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Sallington wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Even if you had different code in Cyrodiil vs everywhere else (assuming this could be done), you'd then have bots farming every PvE spot to sell gold. Then again, having them all in such a limited space should make banning them a much easier task.

I actually agree completely with what Fengrush suggested for removing botters: hire more people and ban every single one of them. The way they are (were) profiting from botting is illegal and unethical anyway. No sympathy for the cheaters.

Banning those guys is like playing whack a mole. You cannot just ban on an individual basis. You also cannot just blanket ban countries because they will simply use a proxy. Just not a feasible solution.

It's a lot easier to limit in a subscription-based game, since they would need to create a new $15 account every time they wanted to get back in the game. F2P though, buy the box once and create all the accounts you want.

Thing is tho they have access to 1000s and 1000s of accounts using fraudulent steam keys and stolen credit cards.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · April 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Is this guy supposed to be somebody important? Because I'm pretty sure he isn't.

He streams himself playing ESO on TwitchTV although I think he's playing a game called Paragon now, due to the decreasing Cyrodiil PvP experience.

Um, he has a dog and works in internet security.

He's a lone Orc in a sea of potatoes.

ZOS_GregoryV · April 2016

Greetings all,

We have had to recently remove more commentary from this thread for flaming.

As per our Community Rules:

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Continuing will get this discussion locked, which we would like to avoid. We feel it is important for you to have the ability to voice your concerns and opinions. Thank you for your understanding.

MaxwellC · April 2016

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch
Wheeler had stated that CP in a campaign like haderus had also caused some major lag issues thats why BWB where most players didn't have a lot or any CP had less performance issues. That information was directly taken from brian wheeler himself when he was doing his diagrams.

Wheeler had said that the lighting patch was not the cause and said something like "When the lag happened around the lighting patch everyone said oh it was the lighting patch which isn't the issue". Not sure of his exact words but he definitely denounced that theory.

I play around from time to time in unreal engine and developing programs based on the school projects presented to me is what I have as experience since I'm in school for those very things so that wouldn't make me an "average tech savvy" guy. I'm pretty confident that I know quite a lot about technology from coding to maintenance.

@Cathexis
I did state that the patch that introduced countermeasures against botting was the main issue here so.. I'm not sure what's up lol.

@ZOS_GregoryV
As I said to ZOS CoriJ people are trolling and trying to get this discussion locked, could you just remove those who are flaming. Thanks in advance if you can.

aLi3nZ · April 2016

I saw the video and that it was over 1 hour long then closed the window. Can't spend that time on it.

You are a great player fengrush. I liked that duel where you beat a nightblade who started complaining about Immove pots and werewolf howl. That was funny.

Vorcil · April 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

This thread contains a lot of good back and forth discussion and constructive conversation that we would like to preserve. We have had to remove a lot of commentary from this thread for bashing, slander, and flaming. Disagreements are expected of a very heated discussion and debate, however we ask that it is done in a civil manner.

Continuing disruptive conversation will get this discussion locked, which we would like to avoid. We feel it is important for you to have the ability to voice your concerns and opinions.

Thank you for your understanding.

This isn't a debate; the fact of the matter is that pvp lag is a real issue and that this game was built to play at a significantly better capacity to what it is currently, but at some point was downgraded to the terrible state that it is now.

There is no debate.

Vorcil · April 2016

I remember playing in the beta with several hundred people fighting in the same keep; it was fine.

Now it's not, and it really just disappoints me when I'm trying to do a 15v15 battle and the lag makes it unplayable.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · April 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Wheeler had stated that CP in a campaign like haderus had also caused some major lag issues thats why BWB where most players didn't have a lot or any CP had less performance issues. That information was directly taken from brian wheeler himself when he was doing his diagrams.

He was making a comparison between the non-vet and vet campaigns on console cause there populations were about the same so it made a good baseline comparison. It's wasn't just CP, but passives and abilities as well.

Sorry if I misunderstood you but it sounded like you said BWB didn't have CP so that is the reason for better performance. I play mostly on that server and the performance has always been better than vet campaigns. You don't see ball groups, people don't have a lot of the more powerful abilities like Meteor (remember when this ability would crash the server), things like that. But on BWB you can have large siege battles regularly without any major performance issues aside from the occasional lag. It's night and day compared to the vet campaigns even the less populated ones.

gw2only1b14_ESO · April 2016

Vorcil wrote: »

I remember playing in the beta with several hundred people fighting in the same keep; it was fine.

Now it's not, and it really just disappoints me when I'm trying to do a 15v15 battle and the lag makes it unplayable.

I was involved in those as many others where and have to say the players had skills and skill levels at that time comparable to basically NON vet NON CP combat.

But we still had crashes and 20+ min load screens

tplink3r1 · April 2016

I don't know how some people think the lag is acceptable as it is in PVP right now.

MoeCoastie · April 2016

Besides this guys delivery, there are 2 things this man, imo, automatically loses all credibility:

1. He claims to be able to balance a pvp game.
-anyone who has played any MMO that involves some sort of pvp is well aware that balance is a dream that is always pursued but never obtained. In knowing this, there is always going to be THAT GUY who thinks he can do it better.

2. Claims he wouldve fixed lag and uses examples from early beta going into release to cite examples of how "pvp was in the good ole days."
-now maybe that works for new players to the game or to MMOs but reality is much different. For one, claiming to be able to accomplish what, in my experience, no other game has been able to accomplish You see, Ive followed the game too from developement. Admittedly, probably not as early as you but pretty early on. When I heard, "100s of players on your screen with fluid combat" I thought to myself, I wonder how they will do that because Ive never seen anyone do it. Im sure you, who admits to probably having less MMORPG pvp time than most here took their word at face value and took it as a standard. Im sorry bro, but you got suckered. All companies do it...you arent the first and surely wont be the last.

-also, some of your ideas involve instanced pvp. Which, you having followed the game so long would know because its the other part to their pvp promo slogan that you so conveniently exclude from your entire 1hr+ rant, which is 3 faction/army/large scale with castle sieges. Now, you may not have seen that as a major selling point, but Im sure a large portion of us had. In fact, I'd wager the term castle/siege warfare was mentioned as much, if not more so than fluid combat with 100s of players on the screen. So why are you trying to make a completely different PvP game with the same skin? If you got reasonable and humble suggestions on improving the current pvp, I may listen to your stream...otherwise, youre just another guy who found himself above average in a casual pvp'ers game and wants an outlet to show just how uber he is. Again, there are many players like you in this game because the beautiy of this type of casual pvp is that everyone has a way to make themselves feel badass. Whether it be solo, zerging, smallman, pvdooring, or whatever...everyone has a way to feel like they are contributing and feel like they are strong. Im sorry there is no absolution for you or a leaderboard that correctly reflects your skill but that is what casual pvp is.

aLi3nZ · April 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch
Wheeler had stated that CP in a campaign like haderus had also caused some major lag issues thats why BWB where most players didn't have a lot or any CP had less performance issues. That information was directly taken from brian wheeler himself when he was doing his diagrams.

Wheeler had said that the lighting patch was not the cause and said something like "When the lag happened around the lighting patch everyone said oh it was the lighting patch which isn't the issue". Not sure of his exact words but he definitely denounced that theory.

I play around from time to time in unreal engine and developing programs based on the school projects presented to me is what I have as experience since I'm in school for those very things so that wouldn't make me an "average tech savvy" guy. I'm pretty confident that I know quite a lot about technology from coding to maintenance.

@Cathexis
I did state that the patch that introduced countermeasures against botting was the main issue here so.. I'm not sure what's up lol.

@ZOS_GregoryV
As I said to ZOS CoriJ people are trolling and trying to get this discussion locked, could you just remove those who are flaming. Thanks in advance if you can.

lighting patch is coincidental. He said that. At the same time the lighting patch happened more and more people were getting into end game gear with armour procs and cp procs / Passives etcwhic meant more calculation.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

MoeCoastie wrote: »

Besides this guys delivery, there are 2 things this man, imo, automatically loses all credibility:

1. He claims to be able to balance a pvp game.
-anyone who has played any MMO that involves some sort of pvp is well aware that balance is a dream that is always pursued but never obtained. In knowing this, there is always going to be THAT GUY who thinks he can do it better.

2. Claims he wouldve fixed lag and uses examples from early beta going into release to cite examples of how "pvp was in the good ole days."
-now maybe that works for new players to the game or to MMOs but reality is much different. For one, claiming to be able to accomplish what, in my experience, no other game has been able to accomplish You see, Ive followed the game too from developement. Admittedly, probably not as early as you but pretty early on. When I heard, "100s of players on your screen with fluid combat" I thought to myself, I wonder how they will do that because Ive never seen anyone do it. Im sure you, who admits to probably having less MMORPG pvp time than most here took their word at face value and took it as a standard. Im sorry bro, but you got suckered. All companies do it...you arent the first and surely wont be the last.

-also, some of your ideas involve instanced pvp. Which, you having followed the game so long would know because its the other part to their pvp promo slogan that you so conveniently exclude from your entire 1hr+ rant, which is 3 faction/army/large scale with castle sieges. Now, you may not have seen that as a major selling point, but Im sure a large portion of us had. In fact, I'd wager the term castle/siege warfare was mentioned as much, if not more so than fluid combat with 100s of players on the screen. So why are you trying to make a completely different PvP game with the same skin? If you got reasonable and humble suggestions on improving the current pvp, I may listen to your stream...otherwise, youre just another guy who found himself above average in a casual pvp'ers game and wants an outlet to show just how uber he is. Again, there are many players like you in this game because the beautiy of this type of casual pvp is that everyone has a way to make themselves feel badass. Whether it be solo, zerging, smallman, pvdooring, or whatever...everyone has a way to feel like they are contributing and feel like they are strong. Im sorry there is no absolution for you or a leaderboard that correctly reflects your skill but that is what casual pvp is.

His points about balancing pvp were that he could do it better. Anyone who actively plays this game can balance this game better because the devs ate oblivious to their own game. It is not that he could balance the game pwrfectly, but a hell of a lot better than what we see now.

Also, the 100v100v100 was not some pipe dream that was over exaggerated. It was real we played it. We saw it. It worked. It functioned.

Also, he was against instanced pvp. Hie reasoning for suggesting was passed on the premise that zos cant/won't fix cyrodil, so his theory was that instanced pvp was the only way around the cyrodil issue.

I disagree that this is merely a casual pvp game. The beauty of this game was that you could have casual and compete time pvp working in tandem. They are not mutually exclusive.

Cathexis · April 2016

aLi3nZ wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Enraged_Tiki_Torch
Wheeler had stated that CP in a campaign like haderus had also caused some major lag issues thats why BWB where most players didn't have a lot or any CP had less performance issues. That information was directly taken from brian wheeler himself when he was doing his diagrams.

Wheeler had said that the lighting patch was not the cause and said something like "When the lag happened around the lighting patch everyone said oh it was the lighting patch which isn't the issue". Not sure of his exact words but he definitely denounced that theory.

I play around from time to time in unreal engine and developing programs based on the school projects presented to me is what I have as experience since I'm in school for those very things so that wouldn't make me an "average tech savvy" guy. I'm pretty confident that I know quite a lot about technology from coding to maintenance.

@Cathexis
I did state that the patch that introduced countermeasures against botting was the main issue here so.. I'm not sure what's up lol.

@ZOS_GregoryV
As I said to ZOS CoriJ people are trolling and trying to get this discussion locked, could you just remove those who are flaming. Thanks in advance if you can.

lighting patch is coincidental. He said that. At the same time the lighting patch happened more and more people were getting into end game gear with armour procs and cp procs / Passives etcwhic meant more calculation.

I don't think that was the reason. I have seen it cited before but I was there when they made the changes and I promise you that was never the cause. Initially it was people ddosing the server with aoe spam, which then evolved to be favored as the team PvP tactic of choice. People used to just show up at keeps and spam impulse in all four corners of a keep to create a giant lag field, until they got busted for it. I know because my forum thread was the one that got a green response and pretty sure it got them banned lol.

@MaxwellCrystal meant no hates, just elaborating...

GrumpyDuckling · April 2016

To those who dislike this Fengrush streamer, you are entitled to your dislike of him. However, calling for him to leave or just wanting to silence him and his opinions is the worst thing you could. Silence always benefits large companies and corporations at the cost of consumers.

Hate Fengrush and his style if you want, but never call for the silencing of players (especially passionate ones - which he appears to be). That hurts us all.

M_TeK_9 · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Im not much for watching people like cypher or deltia because I think they give their build ideas too much praise and in turn convince the masses that there are no other ways to do it. I prefer spending my gold on respecs and trying things for myself however @FENGRUSH I respect your delivery of information. That being said I am not a pc or beta player and I would like to disagree with the pvp not being on a scale as large as it used to be part of your video. Skull of corruption ps4 NA has, for the last month or two, been a lagless warzone with 30-75 people per faction sieging and defending up to three keeps at a time all the time. My guild has worn "daggerfall elite" out by simply being better players but it has potential to become a focus of development yet. I usually forget to record the really epic *** because it lasts for two hours no breaks and because I'm simply zoned into the game, but the odd time I remember to catch a small fight. The odd time I'll catch a few spikes of lag but for the most part pvp has become serious on ps4. If you'd like to get in a good run and partake in some 2-8 hour siege wars I invite you to come join SVER True Bloods. I promise an experience you may not expect with this guild and for some background check please Google us. You won't be let down.

This video had over 50 individual daggerfall attacking us with 25-30 reinforcements that showed up and it was pretty smooth. I have other videos if greater fights but I haven't had the time to upload. Enjoy

https://youtu.be/G4H_6kQFAN0

30-75 people over 3 keep battles is not what he 8s talking about. He was talking about 300 people on screen at one time. While at the same time numerous other keep battles and field battles taking place with zero lag. Today, you can't even achieve these numbers in cyro cause pop was lowered and is split with IC. 300 people 9n one screen is just not possible today like it once was.

Ok so we're clear, it was about 50 or more people per keep and they came right back after that with more. I see numbers equal to the group in his video very often. While it can get laggy it's not unplayable and has improved since the 20min IC load screen days.

I think Fengs anger is allowing his emotion to exaggerate a little on how the console runs. For the most part though I can't disagree because I know nothing about the staff and internal aspects of the company.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Im not much for watching people like cypher or deltia because I think they give their build ideas too much praise and in turn convince the masses that there are no other ways to do it. I prefer spending my gold on respecs and trying things for myself however @FENGRUSH I respect your delivery of information. That being said I am not a pc or beta player and I would like to disagree with the pvp not being on a scale as large as it used to be part of your video. Skull of corruption ps4 NA has, for the last month or two, been a lagless warzone with 30-75 people per faction sieging and defending up to three keeps at a time all the time. My guild has worn "daggerfall elite" out by simply being better players but it has potential to become a focus of development yet. I usually forget to record the really epic *** because it lasts for two hours no breaks and because I'm simply zoned into the game, but the odd time I remember to catch a small fight. The odd time I'll catch a few spikes of lag but for the most part pvp has become serious on ps4. If you'd like to get in a good run and partake in some 2-8 hour siege wars I invite you to come join SVER True Bloods. I promise an experience you may not expect with this guild and for some background check please Google us. You won't be let down.

This video had over 50 individual daggerfall attacking us with 25-30 reinforcements that showed up and it was pretty smooth. I have other videos if greater fights but I haven't had the time to upload. Enjoy

https://youtu.be/G4H_6kQFAN0

30-75 people over 3 keep battles is not what he 8s talking about. He was talking about 300 people on screen at one time. While at the same time numerous other keep battles and field battles taking place with zero lag. Today, you can't even achieve these numbers in cyro cause pop was lowered and is split with IC. 300 people 9n one screen is just not possible today like it once was.

Ok so we're clear, it was about 50 or more people per keep and they came right back after that with more. I see numbers equal to the group in his video very often. While it can get laggy it's not unplayable and has improved since the 20min IC load screen days.

I think Fengs anger is allowing his emotion to exaggerate a little on how the console runs. For the most part though I can't disagree because I know nothing about the staff and internal aspects of the company.

That video he showed doesn't even do the old system justice. His example was mild. Go look at other old pvp videos. Even ones by angry joe. We are not talking about 50 or 60 people at each keep over 3 keeps and then they come back. No. You used to be able to do 100v100v100 in a single keep at one time. All while having endless forward camps at a fraction of the price and no spawn timer or radius. While that was happening you would have another 30v30v30 at 2 other keeps. On too of the all the little battles occurring all over the map from the ability to be able to spawn at any forward camp. All the while, no lag. I'm not talkiin about "playable lag," but no lag.

As for console performance, I can't speak to that. I don't play console.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2016

From 1:06:35 to 1:07:35 in the video he actually had me laughing out loud.

Patouf · April 2016

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Happy birthday ESO

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MoeCoastie · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

Besides this guys delivery, there are 2 things this man, imo, automatically loses all credibility:

1. He claims to be able to balance a pvp game.
-anyone who has played any MMO that involves some sort of pvp is well aware that balance is a dream that is always pursued but never obtained. In knowing this, there is always going to be THAT GUY who thinks he can do it better.

2. Claims he wouldve fixed lag and uses examples from early beta going into release to cite examples of how "pvp was in the good ole days."
-now maybe that works for new players to the game or to MMOs but reality is much different. For one, claiming to be able to accomplish what, in my experience, no other game has been able to accomplish You see, Ive followed the game too from developement. Admittedly, probably not as early as you but pretty early on. When I heard, "100s of players on your screen with fluid combat" I thought to myself, I wonder how they will do that because Ive never seen anyone do it. Im sure you, who admits to probably having less MMORPG pvp time than most here took their word at face value and took it as a standard. Im sorry bro, but you got suckered. All companies do it...you arent the first and surely wont be the last.

-also, some of your ideas involve instanced pvp. Which, you having followed the game so long would know because its the other part to their pvp promo slogan that you so conveniently exclude from your entire 1hr+ rant, which is 3 faction/army/large scale with castle sieges. Now, you may not have seen that as a major selling point, but Im sure a large portion of us had. In fact, I'd wager the term castle/siege warfare was mentioned as much, if not more so than fluid combat with 100s of players on the screen. So why are you trying to make a completely different PvP game with the same skin? If you got reasonable and humble suggestions on improving the current pvp, I may listen to your stream...otherwise, youre just another guy who found himself above average in a casual pvp'ers game and wants an outlet to show just how uber he is. Again, there are many players like you in this game because the beautiy of this type of casual pvp is that everyone has a way to make themselves feel badass. Whether it be solo, zerging, smallman, pvdooring, or whatever...everyone has a way to feel like they are contributing and feel like they are strong. Im sorry there is no absolution for you or a leaderboard that correctly reflects your skill but that is what casual pvp is.

His points about balancing pvp were that he could do it better. Anyone who actively plays this game can balance this game better because the devs ate oblivious to their own game. It is not that he could balance the game pwrfectly, but a hell of a lot better than what we see now.

Also, the 100v100v100 was not some pipe dream that was over exaggerated. It was real we played it. We saw it. It worked. It functioned.

Also, he was against instanced pvp. Hie reasoning for suggesting was passed on the premise that zos cant/won't fix cyrodil, so his theory was that instanced pvp was the only way around the cyrodil issue.

I disagree that this is merely a casual pvp game. The beauty of this game was that you could have casual and compete time pvp working in tandem. They are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, I understand he feels he can do it better. Like I said, there is always going to be that guy who thinks they can do it better, and maybe they can. But what has he done to put himself in a position to make those decisions? So what he played one MMO for the last 4 years of his life. I dont care if he spent his beer money on his subscription for the entirety of those 4 years...to me, that still doesnt justify why this dude should have any say in a game I like to play. I'd much rather put my faith in someone who's shown the ability to put in the work, gained the experience, and learned the difference between an idea and what can be done. Ive heard a lot of ideas from this video, but the man can't put 2 sentences together to elaborate on his idea (if he even can go that far) without going on a rage about someone being an idiot or inept. He can't even present an idea correctly and you think he can design and balance a multi-million dollar game? I gotta give it to him though, he's REALLY good at tearing down someone else's idea or trying to manage someone else' vision. If that's the type of role he expects, does he realize that's a management position? So because he's a good player, he thinks he's entitled to shape someone else' idea who has put in the work to get to where they are? Yay, you discovered that you have a passion for balancing a pvp game. Now go out and put yourself into a position where you can actually do that.

Elaborate on your idea that cyrodiil isnt a casual pvpers playground? I think I mentioned that all playstyles can exist in cyrodiil (solo, smallman, zerg, etc...). It is exactly the way you want it to be yet some top % percent players want the game tailored to their needs and wants. Primetime lag and broken abilities aside, I think theyve allowed an environment where all playstyles can have their little piece of the cake. You got solo'ers getting mass AP, you got small man's getting their AP, you got straight zergers getting their AP. YOu got tower farms, you got straight up large keep battles, you got skirmishes, ambushes, bridge camps, fights to and from camps,you got rivalries between playstyles, factions, etc.. And everyone thinks they are above average....I like that.

I dont know what game you guys are playing. The game Ive been playing the last few years plays better now than it did when the majority of cyrodiil pvp started hitting max level. I find it funny that he used a video from the early days showing people hardly using any flashy abilities, I know I saw more a couple heavy attack spammers, and people basically running around swinging at people not really knowing what they are doing and not even having enough pve experience to even use any of their abilities they have even remotely efficiently. Yeah, that's how pvp should be. No weaving, no animation canceling, none of the protip strats that people use today pressing 5 buttons in a split second to burst down someone. Instead, he shows this vid which is basically 3 week old brand new to the game playing whack-a-mole. But he exclude the clip where AJ is going on his "I AM KING RANT" and tells everyone to charge....but what do you know!?! game crashes when a mass amount of people start throwing packets at the server. Trust me when I say...the "good ole days" arent as good as you guys remember.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Again, I think you miss the overarching point of the "I can do better than zos" thing. The point is that a player who has played for many years is more in touch with what balance should be then the developers. It is meant to point out how inept the deva are at the proceas. Most players can do a better balancing job. It's not meant to refer to "how great we think we are" but the opposite. That zos is so inept at balancing the game that their players can do it better.

Pvp is a casual playground, but it is also for compete time play. You point out all of the various ways tonplay. That is right. It also includes compete time play. Whether that be in the form of the community forming duels are Gvg fights. Whether that is sypera fight nights. Sometimes it comes in the form of groups playing the map trying to outwit the other alliance and winning the campaign. Perhaps it is just a random encounter between to high level guilds who fight to win the battle. As I stated, compete time Pvp and casual are not mutually exclusive in this game.

Again, that was just a piece of a clip from one video. You can find plenty that show off a lot more. He even mentioned that he wasn't going to go through it and kind of half showed it off and followed it up with go search it yourself cause videos are their showing his point. I agree. It was not like the issues in cyrodIL were gradual. It was all atbonce. The issues can be traced to a particular patch. If it was in fact people reaching max level, then it would have gotten progressively worse not a complete 180. I also can't "trust" you about your idea of the good Ole days because I was there. I remember. It was that good.

Brightxdawn · April 2016

After watching this video I've realized the game could be so much better. It is very disappointing what the game has become. Full of bugs and more bugs. Nerf this and that. Zemimax is pretty much like Bungie. They keep content from you and sell you bits and pieces of it here and there.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Brightxdawn wrote: »

After watching this video I've realized the game could be so much better. It is very disappointing what the game has become. Full of bugs and more bugs. Nerf this and that. Zemimax is pretty much like Bungie. They keep content from you and sell you bits and pieces of it here and there.

Yes, and a magazine cover made you realize that your wife doesn't look like Scarlett Johansson. She could look so much better. It is so disappointing. You would look like Scarlett Johansson if you were a woman. You'd just fix yourself. It IS possible : you've seen Scarlett Johansson in several movies with your own eyes.

Just divorce that wife of yours that you were perfectly happy with (in spite of her flaws) until that magazine cover ?