He makes a couple of points. I'm willing to grant you that. But it's completely lost in his own sense of self importance and childish ranting.

Yes, PVP is far from perfect I am certainly willing to admit that. But this balance that you speak of is a myth. In any MMO with PVP that I have ever played there's been more powerful classes, there's been imbalances, there's been discrepancies between abilities. And this is still going on in long running MMO's like World of Warcraft. Go ahead. Go to their forums and look. Even this many years into their game, players are shouting for class balances.

Performance wise in Cyrodiil? Yep, clearly there's a lot of issues. But how can you be so absolutely abd completely sure that if they removed AOE caps that this would magically fix the problem? You can't be. So, if they tried it and it didn't improve the stability and performance in Cyrodiil, then what?

You say that MMO's don't cater exclusively to casuals. This again is very true. In fact, a lot of MMO's have a lot of competitive stuff in their gameplay with PVP like battlegrounds and arenas. ESO doesn't. It's likely going to have Arenas before the year is out, but I'm willing to bet that the biggest chunk of the population of this game is here for Elder Scrolls. Not to be some sort of hardcore experience. Because this game does not and indeed has never promised or promoted itself as a hardcore experience game. In point of fact, in a recent interview, Matt Firor refers to the game as an online RPG as opposed to an MMO. Elder Scrolls has always and will always be about the journey and the stories. Not hardcore PVP experiences.

I do completely agree that patches should not be released that broken and full of bugs as TG was. I would say that patches need at least another month on PTS so that Zeni can get them fixed up better before releasing, but having something on the test server is quite different to having it on live server. Population for one is a big factor. But they certainly need to do more rigorous testing of patches. Because having one in that state can't happen again. They really need to pull their socks up and hire more QA testers.

Now, we all know that the PVP community around here are the most vocal. To that end I would maybe like to see a greater separation of PVP and PVE. As someone who enjoys both activities, this statement may seem odd, but for every cry of ability nerf that Zenimax pays attention to, it affects PVE as well as PVP. Could this be done with different abilities for PVP and PVE? Something else? I don't know the answer, but it would undoubtedly take a lot of work to implement.

There's having passion for a game, and there's sitting and ranting for nearly 30 minutes. If a game caused me this much stress, I would just get the heck out of dodge and find another game. But in the end, you'll come to realise that most, if not all MMO's share common denominators. Balance issues. Things breaking. Am I saying Zenimax are perfect? Gods, no. No game company is a holy grail of perfection, nor will they ever be. That the Thieves Guild patch was so buggy is a really, really really bad move on the part of ZOS. What should have been a smooth implementation of a classic ES Guild has turned sour because it's buried in bugs, and ZOS need to be a heck of a lot more careful with future DLC and game patches. A heck of a lot more.

But this - this is not helping the game either. If you're going to threaten to leave, then either go and find another game that suits you better, or at least have some decency to give actual and constructive feedback rather than creating a song and dance about it all like you deserve some kind of preferential treatment above all other people who play this game.

Samadhi wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

...
Performance wise in Cyrodiil? Yep, clearly there's a lot of issues. But how can you be so absolutely abd completely sure that if they removed AOE caps that this would magically fix the problem? You can't be. So, if they tried it and it didn't improve the stability and performance in Cyrodiil, then what?
...

When AoE caps were announced, players told ZOS that it would result in players bunching up close together to mitigate damage, which would in turn cause lag.
Since then, everyone bunches up to mitigate damage, and whenever they do so there is lag.

It is indeed possible that the lag is caused by something else, but every "else" they have tried has not fixed it.
Worst case scenario -- the lag does not get fixed and people whine about zergballs being killed by small groups until the cap goes back into place.
Best case scenario -- the lag gets fixed, ZOS has to admit that players were right, and that their alternate solutions were a waste of both player and worker time.

The only reason not to try it at this point is fear of looking bad because it worked.

And I indeed am not saying this wouldn't work. But I'm not sure it's the magical fix that people are making it out to be.

However getting people to stop balling up would be a good start.

Thanks for posting it, @Keybaud! I've watched it through to the end, and I have to say, I agree with every single thing he said!

Many of the points that this streamer makes are the reasons that I left Destiny to play ESO. I'm starting to worry that I made a lateral move.

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Troneon wrote: »

Too late 90% of the pvp community left and with a tiny starter size zone and one new trial to keep the hardcore pve players they have left as well soon....even the twitch streamers have dropped eso or don't stream as much anymore.



But at least they gave away 1 million dollars...

[snip] Even since beta they were money grubbing and barely listening to the community.

Seems like all new mmo's and companys are doing the same....

Quick high short term turn over $$$$$$$$$$$ screw everything else... they are not providing a quality product and soon this industry will be heavily regulated like all the others because of companies like ZOS....ripping off the consumer and delivering crap products..


[edited for inappropriate content]

there's a lot of toys being thrown out of that pram on the video.

.

JD2013 wrote: »

He makes a couple of points. I'm willing to grant you that. But it's completely lost in his own sense of self importance and childish ranting.

Yes, PVP is far from perfect I am certainly willing to admit that. But this balance that you speak of is a myth. In any MMO with PVP that I have ever played there's been more powerful classes, there's been imbalances, there's been discrepancies between abilities. And this is still going on in long running MMO's like World of Warcraft. Go ahead. Go to their forums and look. Even this many years into their game, players are shouting for class balances.

Performance wise in Cyrodiil? Yep, clearly there's a lot of issues. But how can you be so absolutely abd completely sure that if they removed AOE caps that this would magically fix the problem? You can't be. So, if they tried it and it didn't improve the stability and performance in Cyrodiil, then what?

You say that MMO's don't cater exclusively to casuals. This again is very true. In fact, a lot of MMO's have a lot of competitive stuff in their gameplay with PVP like battlegrounds and arenas. ESO doesn't. It's likely going to have Arenas before the year is out, but I'm willing to bet that the biggest chunk of the population of this game is here for Elder Scrolls. Not to be some sort of hardcore experience. Because this game does not and indeed has never promised or promoted itself as a hardcore experience game. In point of fact, in a recent interview, Matt Firor refers to the game as an online RPG as opposed to an MMO. Elder Scrolls has always and will always be about the journey and the stories. Not hardcore PVP experiences.

I do completely agree that patches should not be released that broken and full of bugs as TG was. I would say that patches need at least another month on PTS so that Zeni can get them fixed up better before releasing, but having something on the test server is quite different to having it on live server. Population for one is a big factor. But they certainly need to do more rigorous testing of patches. Because having one in that state can't happen again. They really need to pull their socks up and hire more QA testers.

Now, we all know that the PVP community around here are the most vocal. To that end I would maybe like to see a greater separation of PVP and PVE. As someone who enjoys both activities, this statement may seem odd, but for every cry of ability nerf that Zenimax pays attention to, it affects PVE as well as PVP. Could this be done with different abilities for PVP and PVE? Something else? I don't know the answer, but it would undoubtedly take a lot of work to implement.

There's having passion for a game, and there's sitting and ranting for nearly 30 minutes. If a game caused me this much stress, I would just get the heck out of dodge and find another game. But in the end, you'll come to realise that most, if not all MMO's share common denominators. Balance issues. Things breaking. Am I saying Zenimax are perfect? Gods, no. No game company is a holy grail of perfection, nor will they ever be. That the Thieves Guild patch was so buggy is a really, really really bad move on the part of ZOS. What should have been a smooth implementation of a classic ES Guild has turned sour because it's buried in bugs, and ZOS need to be a heck of a lot more careful with future DLC and game patches. A heck of a lot more.

But this - this is not helping the game either. If you're going to threaten to leave, then either go and find another game that suits you better, or at least have some decency to give actual and constructive feedback rather than creating a song and dance about it all like you deserve some kind of preferential treatment above all other people who play this game.

+1

@FENGRUSH is a very good player, learned a lot from watching him
many post he made were insightfull for me....
but trying to sit on the chair of Matt Firor in a 30 minute ranting is just a waste of good time.
and talking about firing ZOS employees is bad taste.

That does not help the game at all.

Meeh....I think the issue is he is PC. I wander console players like myself, these changes are big and the game is si]omeghing to look forward to after a crappy day at work. I agree with some things he said but I believe it's all a matter of opinion. Ill play this game for years to come. Until Pokemon of cpurse

It helps the players... revealing how ZOS treats the guild meetings and such. Don`t you want all the information you can get or just want the positive stuff?

the truth always hurt

I played SWG from 2003-2011. Have to admit I was one of the largest voices v NGE and C6CD. What did I learn from all if it?

I haven't made all that many posts on this forum, in fact not many at all. I tried this game at launch, didn't really care for it, and came back a couple of months ago to try it again. I very well know what game changes can do to players, after all I lived thru the CU, NERF WARS, NGE, and the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade. I can almost guarantee you whatever changes you guys have had to put up with is really no comparison in the long of it. That doesn't say that ZOS hasn't screwed up, they probably have, most devs do at one point or another.

Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it. What I'd give now to have them turn the servers back on but that's never going to happen.

Since then, I tend to be a little more forgiving with developers. In SWG I learned to work with the last SOE producer, T2, became 1 of his private testers, as a matter of fact. Having been both ways, I can say that working with devs, explaining why and what they have or propose won't work, furnishing the numbers if needed, will get you a lot further and a boat load better game and PVP, balance, etc.

As expected many QQ jokes are present, "damn pvp elitist scum" posts are also in abundance. But if people like Elloa leave for greener pastures it is a clear sign that something is not right.

I by no means am not knowledgeable player. By no means im elitist mini maxer. But i dare to say that years of playing MMOs give me the ability to sense what is wrong. And my "bad things are coming" senses are tingling in ESO.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I have a hard time not rolling my eyes every time I see a Fengrush video.

Usually when he's says something like "their netcode isn't robust" I'm just laughing at him.

It's hard to get past knowing what he does and how he's certainly not on the up and up about anything. I mean we are talking about a guy that abused the hell out of stamina with the sprint->dodge roll thing and he did it for months.

As for the AOE caps thing he constantly rants about... my god it would become all fights last 2-3 seconds nightmare.

If AOE caps weren't a thing we would have no need of proxy to be a zerg buster or of VD, small groups could actually have a chance to take a zerg out.

But thats not the case, aoe are still in place and zergs have rules pvp for so long. Hence the Proxy/Vd and i'm waiting for the tears to start. The proxy one is already starting, wait until the VD rolls in.