Official Feedback Thread for Prioritization of Combat Animations

altemriel · February 2016

beerninja wrote: »

Mods please rename this thread to bhlegit's

altemriel wrote: »

I totally am against getting rid of animation cancelling. why do you want it to be removed from the game?

If a samurai or some elite warrior in real life was so fast and swift, his hits and movement was so fast you could not even realize and you was dead, so why the heck should animation cancelling be dropped from the game. I just do not get your point people!

AC is a skill and it should stay in the game for sure!!

This is Elder Scrolls, not Dragon Ball Z. Sometimes I wish website age gates actually worked...

Dude, no offence, but I am 35 years old, so you are wrong with that argument. But anyway, I understand, that people with disabilities (who really can not move their fingers so fast) can have problems when people use AC and they are simply not able to use AC. But people with no disabilities, it is not so hard to re-wire the brain and learn to AC. It is not that hard. You simply do not press light attack, (pause), heavy attack, (pause), skill, (pause), skill, but you learn to do it another way: light attack - skill, heavy attack - skill, skill-weapon swap and so on, in about the pace of a heart beat (I mean the speed how you press the buttons after each other). So my point is valid, it is a skill, a skill to press the buttons fast and in a certain order and pace. nothing more. So I do not see any reason why this should be removed from the game.
Yes, you do not see the attack comming, but you still can react, if you are fast enough, dodge roll or block, or counter-attack, that is all.

Cryhavoc wrote: »

This might be derailing the issue, but has anyone ever compiled a list of skills that can or cannot be animation cancelled, by class or skill line?

I think you will find that some classes may benefit more from AC than others.

As far as I know, all of the skills can be animation cancelled. there are no skills, that can not be animation cancelled.

acw37162 · February 2016

Of all the things in this patch not to like this is right at the top of the list.

It's amazing there is only six pages on this topic.

A day after this hits this hits live servers you will have a 30 % plus loss on logins the following day.

You might be able to have a pretty good debate about long term game health versus short term health but this will go over like a lead brick on live.

Whole podcast today and if this was mentioned once it was just briefly and I can't recall it.

This is a massive change and touches a very core reason most people play ESO.

Roll this back #savejackdanielseso

ZOS_EdLynch · February 2016

There has been some great feedback in here. One of the abilities specifically called out was Dawnbreaker and we've made some changes to greatly improve its responsiveness. We hope to have those changes on one of the next incremental PTS patches.

I'd also like to clarify again that weaving should work the same as it always has. If you interrupt a heavy attack with an instant ability, you will still cast that ability instantly - but because that semi-charged heavy attack still happens, we briefly show a part of that attack (on average, about 250-350ms) then switch to showing that second ability already in progress. Similarly, when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame. That frame on the Dawnbreaker ability was determined to happen far too late, which negatively impacted the perceived response time.

If you find it to be the case that abilities are truly delayed from starting because of an animation in progress in a way that doesn't currently happen on the live megaservers, please give us detailed information about that specific rotation so that we can replicate it here and make any corrections necessary. I should also note that this visual change is systemic and should not affect any class or weapon type more or less than any other. Please report specific discrepancies so that we can investigate.

In short, you should still be able to weave as you always have, only you will not be able to completely obscure one ability in favor of another when both are successful. If you find the actual mechanics of your rotations have changed, please let us know exactly which rotation (skill, morphs, weapon-type) is behaving differently for you.

xylena · February 2016

executioner still deals its damage before the weapon actually swings... when it's the KB the dead player will be on the ground before the weapon swings

bhlegit · February 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Of all the things in this patch not to like this is right at the top of the list.

It's amazing there is only six pages on this topic.

A day after this hits this hits live servers you will have a 30 % plus loss on logins the following day.

You might be able to have a pretty good debate about long term game health versus short term health but this will go over like a lead brick on live.

Whole podcast today and if this was mentioned once it was just briefly and I can't recall it.

This is a massive change and touches a very core reason most people play ESO.

Roll this back #savejackdanielseso

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. There are just a lot of people who dont understand the change right now and think it wont affect ac much. This change completely changes the 'feel' of the game contrary to your own guidelines.

What you have to understand is as a magicka dd using staff you are doing light attack (crushing shock -insert skill here) block, that is the weaving rotation, not just light attack skill. So from our perspective it is still gimped.

I say again YOU CANNOT block cancel, this is a lot more detrimental to the whole game and many players' play styles than you guys seem to think! I guarantee after it goes live , like 'acw371...' said above me, you will have so many less logins everyone will quit because of this change. it affects both PVE and PVP greatly.

ROLL BACK THE POINTLESS CHANGE #FREEAC

bhlegit · February 2016

There you go here's the money answer:

"...when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame."

It makes absolutely no sense. the block should happen when we press block. It may sound nice but in practice it doesn't work, it ends up feeling like a micro second of delay (which in turn feels like palying in 300 ping). If you want to block an enemies attack then yeah it will work because that small delay will be over before the attack reaches you allowing you to block it. But when block casting or weaving you are not actually blocking you are pressing block for a fraction of a second, so in practice what happens is character does not block unless you hold block or press it twice (thereby eliminating block cancelling from the game) - this goes against your own outlined guidelines, not to change the feel of the combat. Which, after all is the main reason most continue to play this game. if you want primitive combat that consists of just pressing abilities - go back to wow.

It is clear that we are not going to win, this is a lobby we cannot beat. It seems the developers of this game are intent on making changes only to appease those who cry nerf on the forum - Meteor, monster helms, alliance rank, ac, streak, dodgeroll, emp buff, seige dmg, nb, shields, the list could go on ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE A COUNTER - the issue is clear - L2P. But none of that matters now the game is done.

Enodoc · February 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

It makes absolutely no sense. the block should happen when we press block.

ZOS_EdLynch wrote: »

when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it

Ed specifically says that it does. Are you saying that it doesn't?

Zedh · February 2016

There seems to be an issue with auto attack projectiles not firing off during medium attack weaving on the pts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB078CIQhk0

When medium attack weaving force pulse with a destro staff at a fairly consistent pace, exactly every second medium attack fires off no projectiles, thus dealing 0 damage although the entire animation showed.

I also tried medium attack weaving other skills. With skills other than force pulse, the medium attack success rate was even lower. When weaving at a constistent pace I managed to prevent every single medium attack projectile from ever showing up, for example by weaving harness magicka or vampires bane.

ToRelax · February 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

There you go here's the money answer:

"...when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame."

It makes absolutely no sense. the block should happen when we press block. It may sound nice but in practice it doesn't work, it ends up feeling like a micro second of delay (which in turn feels like palying in 300 ping). If you want to block an enemies attack then yeah it will work because that small delay will be over before the attack reaches you allowing you to block it. But when block casting or weaving you are not actually blocking you are pressing block for a fraction of a second, so in practice what happens is character does not block unless you hold block or press it twice (thereby eliminating block cancelling from the game) - this goes against your own outlined guidelines, not to change the feel of the combat. Which, after all is the main reason most continue to play this game. if you want primitive combat that consists of just pressing abilities - go back to wow.

It is clear that we are not going to win, this is a lobby we cannot beat. It seems the developers of this game are intent on making changes only to appease those who cry nerf on the forum - Meteor, monster helms, alliance rank, ac, streak, dodgeroll, emp buff, seige dmg, nb, shields, the list could go on ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE A COUNTER - the issue is clear - L2P. But none of that matters now the game is done.

If your "feel of the combat" depends on being able to clip away a certain animation, then obviously the developer's guidelines for this change aren't applicable to it, as the whole purpose is to display animations and/or parts thereof that could previously be cancelled completely.

Regarding block cancelling, it actually didn't work as described by ZOS on PTS last time I tested it. Since the devs requested actual rotations, here you go: If I use Harness Magicka on myself, then block a regular physical attack from a NPC, CLS will return a blocked hit with reduced damage. However, if I cast Harness Magicka right before the NPC hits me, then press the block button while still in the Harness Magicka animation, I will take the full damage and the hit will not be registered as blocked by CLS. As I understand it, it's right that I don't see the blocking animation just when I press block, but I should still block the hit and take reduced damage.

Tillalarrien · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In the Thieves Guild update, we wanted to make it more clear which attacks players are using, while preserving the responsiveness and feel of the combat system. So, we started with a simple premise: if an ability is successful, you should be able to see it impact (or launch, in the case of projectiles). Now, every successful attack will display until the moment of impact/launch. Instead of canceling the impact/launch of the first ability, we now obscure the first few milliseconds of the interrupting ability.

The above examples show a Heavy Attack interrupted with an instant ability. The green part is what you see, and the red part is what is not shown. In the first example, you can see the way it is currently on the Live megaservers and has been since launch. The Heavy Attack can be interrupted at almost any time during the wind-up. At the time it is interrupted, the strike happens, but it is invisible because it is obscured by the beginning of the interrupting ability. The second example shows our current method of handling interruptions. Instead of obscuring the strike/launch, we show it up until that point of impact/firing, opting to instead obscure the (less important) first few frames of the interrupting ability.

We believe this visual adjustment meets the criteria we set when we were designing this improvement:
A successfully-fired ability should not be visually obscured; if an attack lands or an ability is launched, we should show it happening

DPS and other playstyles should not be adversely affected

The game’s “feel” should not change

One side effect of this change is that there are shorter (or in some cases, no) blend times to smooth the transitions depending on exactly when you choose to fire an interrupting ability. When you’re dealing in milliseconds and giving players that kind of freedom , you sometimes have to forego perfectly smooth transitions in order to make sure the player is receiving proper feedback and telegraphing to other players exactly what they are choosing to do. Having said that, if you find particularly egregious combinations (ability X interrupted with ability Y), please let us know; there may be some things we can do to help smooth them out.

As always, we welcome your feedback. In fact, it will be instrumental in informing us how to proceed with this improvement. Our internal testing has proven to be very successful, but there are so many different playstyles, builds and rotations, we want to make sure we try to implement this in a way that feels good in all cases and doesn’t need to be taught through a tutorial; exactly what you see is what is happening.

Im really against that change.
What is clear from both your visual represetation and ingame testing - instead of your animation starting and then cutting and starting new one, the 1st will now play in full at the exepense of the wind up/ beginning of the 2nd.

This is one of the worst things that can happen in reactive combat.
Here is what is wrong with it:
-The animations that were canced before were mostly strike parts and instant abilities. With them dmg has already hit you weather you have seen it play out in full or not. BUT now the animation that will actually get cancled is part of THE WIND UP of (also) chanelled abilities (prime example WB) that you were seing sooner before and therefore were able to dodge or move accordingly.
In short you are prolonging animations that players could not react or didn't need to react to (namely the "strike" stage) at the expense of reducing the time of for reactive combat very important "wind up" stage!
-In adition to that the prioritisation of strike > block is making the game feel like you are playing with delays - it feels slow and unresponsive.
-animation cuts also feel more clunky, as ur not showing starting&middle part of it but instead just middle.

In adition to that i feel that this change is tottaly unnecessary. Noone asked for it, ppl that know what are thy talking about dont want it. It does not remove animation cancling, it makes fighting harder for buff, magicka builds that cant roll dodge for every single skill - making it unbalanced.
If you want to get rid of AC then remove it, if not then dont change it like that - this change is not appealing to anyone.
If your asking if it changes the way the game feels? Yes it does, look for the reasons above ^^
(Spoiler: it feels much worse)
Reroll back the changes or remove AC. Not to see animations I am supposed to REACT to is the worst!

I think there has been more then enough posts here that are talking about the same issues. This is PTS and you want our feedback.You got it and i hope you read it and act on it cause if you dont listen here there is no way we can change things on live. Plys ZOS dont stubornly push on with unneeded, unwanted and all around changes that make perfectly fine aspect of the game worse!

Frawr · February 2016

I must agree with the previous posters, especially @Tillalarrien

These changes make the game feel delayed and sluggish.

In addition, they are indeed showing the full animation of an instant ability (which a player cannot react to) at the expense of the 2nd, wind - up ability, which the player currently can react to in live and cannot react to in pts.

In suary, these changes make combat less responsive and less reactive. They have a very negative impact on visual cues.

These changes make it more difficult to react in pvp.

If you want to allow animation cancelling then I suggest the following:

1, time all damage to coincide with the animation of the strike. This I an internal cool down on everything.

2. Allow any skill to be cancelled before the strike with roll/block/bash/swap weapons etc.

Now. If a player rolls/switches weapon/blocks/interrupts etc before the strike happens then the damage should not land.

This will create the reactive fluid combat that we and you want but prevent players from concealing damage.

Please so not go live with the current iteration of animation prioritisation. It has a very negative impact on game play.

ToRelax · February 2016

Frawr wrote: »

I must agree with the previous posters, especially @Tillalarrien

These changes make the game feel delayed and sluggish.

In addition, they are indeed showing the full animation of an instant ability (which a player cannot react to) at the expense of the 2nd, wind - up ability, which the player currently can react to in live and cannot react to in pts.

In suary, these changes make combat less responsive and less reactive. They have a very negative impact on visual cues.

These changes make it more difficult to react in pvp.

If you want to allow animation cancelling then I suggest the following:

1, time all damage to coincide with the animation of the strike. This I an internal cool down on everything.

2. Allow any skill to be cancelled before the strike with roll/block/bash/swap weapons etc.

Now. If a player rolls/switches weapon/blocks/interrupts etc before the strike happens then the damage should not land.

This will create the reactive fluid combat that we and you want but prevent players from concealing damage.

Please so not go live with the current iteration of animation prioritisation. It has a very negative impact on game play.

Not quite sure what your suggestion is, but from the interpretations I have it's bad either way:
If only damage skills don't go off when cancelled we'll have a very arbitrary line and cut into build diversity, not to speak of the way projectiles are handled under this concept. However, if the same rules apply to all skills, for example Purge didn't purge anything if I cancelled it with a Dodge Roll, it would be the de facto abolishment of animation cancelling.

Frawr · February 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I must agree with the previous posters, especially @Tillalarrien

These changes make the game feel delayed and sluggish.

In addition, they are indeed showing the full animation of an instant ability (which a player cannot react to) at the expense of the 2nd, wind - up ability, which the player currently can react to in live and cannot react to in pts.

In suary, these changes make combat less responsive and less reactive. They have a very negative impact on visual cues.

These changes make it more difficult to react in pvp.

If you want to allow animation cancelling then I suggest the following:

1, time all damage to coincide with the animation of the strike. This I an internal cool down on everything.

2. Allow any skill to be cancelled before the strike with roll/block/bash/swap weapons etc.

Now. If a player rolls/switches weapon/blocks/interrupts etc before the strike happens then the damage should not land.

This will create the reactive fluid combat that we and you want but prevent players from concealing damage.

Please so not go live with the current iteration of animation prioritisation. It has a very negative impact on game play.

Not quite sure what your suggestion is, but from the interpretations I have it's bad either way:
If only damage skills don't go off when cancelled we'll have a very arbitrary line and cut into build diversity, not to speak of the way projectiles are handled under this concept. However, if the same rules apply to all skills, for example Purge didn't purge anything if I cancelled it with a Dodge Roll, it would be the de facto abolishment of animation cancelling.

Im responding on my phone hence I didn't detail my idea for every skill.

The premise of my suggestion is to match animations with actual triggers of skills to improve responsiveness hence I gave the example of sword swinging.

Consider rapid manoeuvre. You only get the buff after your hands go up. If you cancel in first half second then no buff. This same principle could apply to every skill.

Remember, they could change animations of any skill to be faster or slower. It is the ting of the visual cue to the skill output that is what matters.

ToRelax · February 2016

Frawr wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I must agree with the previous posters, especially @Tillalarrien

These changes make the game feel delayed and sluggish.

In addition, they are indeed showing the full animation of an instant ability (which a player cannot react to) at the expense of the 2nd, wind - up ability, which the player currently can react to in live and cannot react to in pts.

In suary, these changes make combat less responsive and less reactive. They have a very negative impact on visual cues.

These changes make it more difficult to react in pvp.

If you want to allow animation cancelling then I suggest the following:

1, time all damage to coincide with the animation of the strike. This I an internal cool down on everything.

2. Allow any skill to be cancelled before the strike with roll/block/bash/swap weapons etc.

Now. If a player rolls/switches weapon/blocks/interrupts etc before the strike happens then the damage should not land.

This will create the reactive fluid combat that we and you want but prevent players from concealing damage.

Please so not go live with the current iteration of animation prioritisation. It has a very negative impact on game play.

Not quite sure what your suggestion is, but from the interpretations I have it's bad either way:
If only damage skills don't go off when cancelled we'll have a very arbitrary line and cut into build diversity, not to speak of the way projectiles are handled under this concept. However, if the same rules apply to all skills, for example Purge didn't purge anything if I cancelled it with a Dodge Roll, it would be the de facto abolishment of animation cancelling.

Im responding on my phone hence I didn't detail my idea for every skill.

The premise of my suggestion is to match animations with actual triggers of skills to improve responsiveness hence I gave the example of sword swinging.

Consider rapid manoeuvre. You only get the buff after your hands go up. If you cancel in first half second then no buff. This same principle could apply to every skill.

Remember, they could change animations of any skill to be faster or slower. It is the ting of the visual cue to the skill output that is what matters.

Okay, I think I understand what you mean now. I don't like how Rapid works, I think a skill should take effect when it consumes resources. And looking at most other skills, that's what happens, when cancelled too early they will not take effect but won't cost resources either.

Xeven · February 2016

ZOS_EdLynch wrote: »

There has been some great feedback in here. One of the abilities specifically called out was Dawnbreaker and we've made some changes to greatly improve its responsiveness. We hope to have those changes on one of the next incremental PTS patches.

I'd also like to clarify again that weaving should work the same as it always has. If you interrupt a heavy attack with an instant ability, you will still cast that ability instantly - but because that semi-charged heavy attack still happens, we briefly show a part of that attack (on average, about 250-350ms) then switch to showing that second ability already in progress. Similarly, when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame. That frame on the Dawnbreaker ability was determined to happen far too late, which negatively impacted the perceived response time.

If you find it to be the case that abilities are truly delayed from starting because of an animation in progress in a way that doesn't currently happen on the live megaservers, please give us detailed information about that specific rotation so that we can replicate it here and make any corrections necessary. I should also note that this visual change is systemic and should not affect any class or weapon type more or less than any other. Please report specific discrepancies so that we can investigate.

In short, you should still be able to weave as you always have, only you will not be able to completely obscure one ability in favor of another when both are successful. If you find the actual mechanics of your rotations have changed, please let us know exactly which rotation (skill, morphs, weapon-type) is behaving differently for you.

@ZOS_EdLynch

On the PTS you can charge up Wrecking Blow (and many other abilities) while gap closing, resulting in instantly hitting the target with two abilities and a CC while they're snared 60%!

You can also charge up a heavy attack inside the animation of Wrecking Blow, also resulting in instantly hitting the target with two abilities and a CC.

These kinds of tactics are rampant in PvP. Is this intended?

RobbaYaga · February 2016

I like the idea of this change, but after talking to a lot of people and reading this thread, it's not seeming great now.

Alternative suggestions:

Option #1: Just get rid of animation cancelling. Simplify life. Perhaps allow people to cancel into a defensive skill, (i.e. I stop my attack/skill to block or roll instead and so no effect of the original happens.) but otherwise, make people play the game. If they choose an ability that has a 2 second wind up, make them spend two seconds in combat living with that choice.

Option #2: In this world of magic and impossible things, take animation cancelling and make it an ability that must be purchased. Perhaps something that allows someone to "chain" two abilities together and those two can benefit from animation cancelling when used together.

Option #3: Create a new skill X that reduces the "casting time" of other skill Y and eliminate and again eliminate AC.

Option #4: Give AC to all the NPCs and have an in-game tutorial on how to do AC. This being my first MMO, I played this game for months before someone made be understand why setting foot in Cyrodiil was a <1 second death sentence.

I still vote for option #1. I bet a fair number of the complaints that "Class X is overpowered" disappear with AC or at least they'll be easier to evaluate and balance.

Ffolks · February 2016

RobbaYaga wrote: »

Option #1: Just get rid of animation cancelling. Simplify life. Perhaps allow people to cancel into a defensive skill, (i.e. I stop my attack/skill to block or roll instead and so no effect of the original happens.) but otherwise, make people play the game. If they choose an ability that has a 2 second wind up, make them spend two seconds in combat living with that choice.

This is the way it should be. It's how people expect the game to function. It would make the game so much easier for them to balance in PvE and PvP as well.

Frawr · February 2016

Ffolks wrote: »

RobbaYaga wrote: »

Option #1: Just get rid of animation cancelling. Simplify life. Perhaps allow people to cancel into a defensive skill, (i.e. I stop my attack/skill to block or roll instead and so no effect of the original happens.) but otherwise, make people play the game. If they choose an ability that has a 2 second wind up, make them spend two seconds in combat living with that choice.

This is the way it should be. It's how people expect the game to function. It would make the game so much easier for them to balance in PvE and PvP as well.

@Ffolks @RobbaYaga

This isn't quite how it should be. The reactive nature of the game requires that you be able to dodge/block/swap weapons instantly (to 'react'). The key is that activating one of these abilities should stop the damage from happening if, and only if the animation has not yet STRUCK the enemy. Timing the animations to the damage would make the game much more responsive.

This current version on PTS, quoting @ZOS_EdLynch does not actually make the game responsive. It does the opposite:

when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame.

This design makes the blocking feel as though the game lagged. It reduces the responsive nature of the game.

it makes it less fun.

@ZOS_EdLynch the PTS animations allow us to conceal a wrecking blow inside a gap-closer. This is far far worse than currently on live.

Please ZOS, please do not sacrifice game play for 'looks cool'. it is not good.

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

ZOS_EdLynch wrote: »

...but because that semi-charged heavy attack still happens, we briefly show a part of that attack (on average, about 250-350ms) then switch to showing that second ability already in progress. Similarly, when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame...

So basically you've made it look like we're playing with a 300ms ping?

MrTarkanian48 · February 2016

@ZOS_EdLynch

Another vote for NOT changing animations.

The WB charge during a gap closer is a deal breaker.

Also it just makes me wonder how many other glitches this may open up that people will find and exploit (similar to camo hunter issues, axe bleed issues, reverberating bash issues).

We are still living with some of these issues, and some are FINALLY about to be resolved. Don't open the game up to a whole new set of problems.

The game is great, but has many issues that need to be addressed. Animation Cancelling/Animation priority should be placed at the very bottom of the list. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

nagarjunna · February 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

@ZOS_EdLynch

The game is great, but has many issues that need to be addressed. Animation Cancelling/Animation priority should be placed at the very bottom of the list. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Amen, Brother!

Jura23 · February 2016

Im sure they had good intentions, but right now I think this change should be abandonded for this update completely!

iosis13 · February 2016

ROLLBACK THE POINTLESS CHANGE.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

I really dont understand this change, its breaking something that wasnt broken.

People are charging wrecking blows while gap closing and you cant see half the attacks that are going off.

Please rollback this change.

nagarjunna · February 2016

iosis13 wrote: »

ROLLBACK THE POINTLESS CHANGE.

I do wish they would roll it back.

@Wrobel is not for turning, this will most likely go in and then they will be amused by the number of players who leave the game!

CtrlAltDlt · February 2016

iosis13 wrote: »

ROLLBACK THE POINTLESS CHANGE.

100% agreed. They succumbed to the whiners like 90% of the time.

Jura23 · February 2016

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

iosis13 wrote: »

ROLLBACK THE POINTLESS CHANGE.

100% agreed. They succumbed to the whiners like 90% of the time.

Thats not the main problem. Main problem is - their goal to make it easier to react to skills ppl are doing was not achieved. In some cases the opposite thing happened. Its way harder to react to enemy actions. Thats why this change is wrong.

ZOS_EdLynch · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

ZOS_EdLynch wrote: »

There has been some great feedback in here. One of the abilities specifically called out was Dawnbreaker and we've made some changes to greatly improve its responsiveness. We hope to have those changes on one of the next incremental PTS patches.

I'd also like to clarify again that weaving should work the same as it always has. If you interrupt a heavy attack with an instant ability, you will still cast that ability instantly - but because that semi-charged heavy attack still happens, we briefly show a part of that attack (on average, about 250-350ms) then switch to showing that second ability already in progress. Similarly, when interrupting an instant ability with block, the actual act of blocking should happen as soon as you activate it, the only difference is that the blocking *animation* (not the block itself) will be queued for that fraction of a second until the ability reaches its impact/launch frame. That frame on the Dawnbreaker ability was determined to happen far too late, which negatively impacted the perceived response time.

If you find it to be the case that abilities are truly delayed from starting because of an animation in progress in a way that doesn't currently happen on the live megaservers, please give us detailed information about that specific rotation so that we can replicate it here and make any corrections necessary. I should also note that this visual change is systemic and should not affect any class or weapon type more or less than any other. Please report specific discrepancies so that we can investigate.

In short, you should still be able to weave as you always have, only you will not be able to completely obscure one ability in favor of another when both are successful. If you find the actual mechanics of your rotations have changed, please let us know exactly which rotation (skill, morphs, weapon-type) is behaving differently for you.

@ZOS_EdLynch

On the PTS you can charge up Wrecking Blow (and many other abilities) while gap closing, resulting in instantly hitting the target with two abilities and a CC while they're snared 60%!

You can also charge up a heavy attack inside the animation of Wrecking Blow, also resulting in instantly hitting the target with two abilities and a CC.

These kinds of tactics are rampant in PvP. Is this intended?

We've been testing this internally and cannot replicate the issue with Uppercut, Wrecking Blow, Critical Charge, Focused Charge, or Streak. Can you tell us exactly how you are accomplishing that?

acw37162 · February 2016

I am going on record;

This is a thermonuclear explosion with a countdown clock set to go off three separate times.

PC Drop
XBoX Drop
PS4 Drop

When you have meetings about what happened why login's are down, subs are down, and crown store sales are down do not say you were not warned and it snot because of some other game release.

Tillalarrien · February 2016

ZOS_EdLynch wrote: »

We've been testing this internally and cannot replicate the issue with Uppercut, Wrecking Blow, Critical Charge, Focused Charge, or Streak. Can you tell us exactly how you are accomplishing that?

@ZOS_EdLynch @ZOS_BrianWheeler You are doing the same thing as with dawbreaker in previous offical reply on this thread, which is focusing on only one from many cases where this change makes the combat/game worse - the problem is fundamental, not in few skill combinations. Fixing skill combinations would be equall to threating the symptoms instead of curing the main problem.
Can you tell us that on your internal server you cant start heavy attack then use WB/Cfrags/darkflare and get starting part of the skill animation cut off? Its also right there on your visual representations of the idea..

This change of prioritisation will destroy the reactive nature of the combat as it is, and this game is based on combat. WB that I can dodge or move away from on live, will now hit sooner after the animation starts playing, limiting the short time in which I can react to it. Hardcasted cfrags will be cast too quickly after animation is visible and it will be impossible to put up a reflect or interrupt, ect. This are just 2 examples, there is plenty more where that came from! Casual players will be droping like flies againt anim cancelers and you probably dont want that?

There are also other symptoms of the main problem i wont event touch here - look previous posts.

The feedback you got here was not "I found a bugg with skill1+skill2". It was "ROLL BACK THE CHANGES" and "WORSE ALL AROUND".. So why are you still pushing for it? Plys dont say its cause you like how the light attack animation looks - its not worth destroying the REACTIVE combat over it! If you must have full animations id sooner take removal of animation canceling for good then this, even though I am all for AC.

Feedback from the ppl that play this game on this topic is as onesided as it can be.. I hope you listen, for the sake of the game.