Joy_Division wrote: »Healing is a bit over the top - and certain heals more than others. None more than BoL. You dont need to spec into healing very much for BoL to be effective because of how many BoL you can throw out per second as compared to the damage of someone purely built into damage. This is the byproduct of the changes in nerfing damage and healing by 50%. Yes people dont get instantly killed, and I agree with that and appreciate it. But I dont agree with 1 templar keeping a guy alive whos laying on the ground not CC breaking because 'hes a healer'. Once you have 2-3 templars forget about it, youre simply waiting for them to slack and not heal.
Healing should be supplemental to survival, in the same way blocking, dodging, buffing and other factors should be. When someone can just lay helplessly on the ground or even someone is sitting there AFK being kept alive while a DPS rips everything he has into him - theres a problem with healing. Its primarily BoL spam and its rate of fire. When you have someone actually spec'd into healing with a good survival build, you have the result of the healing templar I play with... able to survive against 5-10 players beating on him for at least 2minutes with heal spam. Its a joke on both ends.
Hi FENGRUSH:
You think healing is "over the top" from your perspective because you are a stamina sorc who specializes in damage. You think I heal too much with BoL? Too bad. L2P. Every decent stamina build in the game - and I'm assuming yours since you are a decent player can out DPS the big Breath of Life heal globly cooldown per global cooldown if you animation cancel. You only play a sorcerer who gets frustrated because you cant kill a healer fast enough (Gee, sorry for using my only survival tool...maybe you should stop using your survival tool like dodging and streaking if it bothers you so much). You have no idea what's it's like to play a healer or a templar otherwise you wouldn't be asking ZoS to nerf you competitors survival tools.
If you don't like healers so much, why don;t you try not maximizing your weapon damage and actually use the tools in the game to prevent it: you are a staimna build with easy access to reverberating bash and major defile and you choose not to use it. That's on you...not because heals are "out of control." If you reverberating bash a tempalr healer, they have to spend 2 global cooldowns just to get that debuff off (a CC break and a cleanse), in the meantime you could lay in 2 animation canceled heavy attacks, and two DPS skills of your choice which should be be enough to finish off the pesky templar.
If you trying to kill some guy who has 2-3 templars as in the scenario you described above, sorry that's a L2P issue on your part. Mot DPS just want to stack weapon damage and spam the highest damage skills and expect that to overcome any tanking or healing that other players do and when it doesn't work come to the forums and say that tanking and healing are over the top (and usually think dodge roll, on the other hand, was over-nerfed).
I die every night in Cyrodiil as do the players I heal. Quite frankly, it isn't that difficult.
Joy_Division wrote: »Healing is a bit over the top - and certain heals more than others. None more than BoL. You dont need to spec into healing very much for BoL to be effective because of how many BoL you can throw out per second as compared to the damage of someone purely built into damage. This is the byproduct of the changes in nerfing damage and healing by 50%. Yes people dont get instantly killed, and I agree with that and appreciate it. But I dont agree with 1 templar keeping a guy alive whos laying on the ground not CC breaking because 'hes a healer'. Once you have 2-3 templars forget about it, youre simply waiting for them to slack and not heal.
Healing should be supplemental to survival, in the same way blocking, dodging, buffing and other factors should be. When someone can just lay helplessly on the ground or even someone is sitting there AFK being kept alive while a DPS rips everything he has into him - theres a problem with healing. Its primarily BoL spam and its rate of fire. When you have someone actually spec'd into healing with a good survival build, you have the result of the healing templar I play with... able to survive against 5-10 players beating on him for at least 2minutes with heal spam. Its a joke on both ends.
Hi FENGRUSH:
You think healing is "over the top" from your perspective because you are a stamina sorc who specializes in damage. You think I heal too much with BoL? Too bad. L2P. Every decent stamina build in the game - and I'm assuming yours since you are a decent player can out DPS the big Breath of Life heal globly cooldown per global cooldown if you animation cancel. You only play a sorcerer who gets frustrated because you cant kill a healer fast enough (Gee, sorry for using my only survival tool...maybe you should stop using your survival tool like dodging and streaking if it bothers you so much). You have no idea what's it's like to play a healer or a templar otherwise you wouldn't be asking ZoS to nerf you competitors survival tools.
If you don't like healers so much, why don;t you try not maximizing your weapon damage and actually use the tools in the game to prevent it: you are a staimna build with easy access to reverberating bash and major defile and you choose not to use it. That's on you...not because heals are "out of control." If you reverberating bash a tempalr healer, they have to spend 2 global cooldowns just to get that debuff off (a CC break and a cleanse), in the meantime you could lay in 2 animation canceled heavy attacks, and two DPS skills of your choice which should be be enough to finish off the pesky templar.
If you trying to kill some guy who has 2-3 templars as in the scenario you described above, sorry that's a L2P issue on your part. Mot DPS just want to stack weapon damage and spam the highest damage skills and expect that to overcome any tanking or healing that other players do and when it doesn't work come to the forums and say that tanking and healing are over the top (and usually think dodge roll, on the other hand, was over-nerfed).
I die every night in Cyrodiil as do the players I heal. Quite frankly, it isn't that difficult.
Joy sums it up pretty well i thought
Fengrush has some good skills with that Stam Sorc of his but what i cannot understand is why he wouldn't come prepared into fighting for most of us are against overwhelming odds
I would of thought the obvious answer is bring a few mates that are Templars
Then i look forward to watching him protecting his Healers as that is who they will target first
Just like he does (apart from Nightblades who have the audacity to use stealth)
I think zos could improve Templar solo potential not just by increasing damage, but giving morphs either work for templar only (solo) or others (group) and give some stamina restore ability/passive(at least 1, see below). ZOS already implemented it in some skills, they just need a further improvement of this class mechanic.
Like we have :
Rushed Ceremony morphs:
1.Breath of Life - perfect for group play.
2. Honor the Dead - for solo play, despite it is useless now. As i said it should restore stamina instead of magicka.
Solar Flare morphs:
1. Dark Flare - supporting aoe healing debuff with revealing invisible targets.
2. Solar Barrage - currently useless frontline dd aoe. It should be changed to templar version of proximity detonation with smaller addition damage in radius. Templar dont need 2 aoe skills, especially when Spear Shards are much much more supreme to barrage.
Restoring Aura morphs:
1. Repentance - must have skill for group play, mostly useless for solo run.
2. Radiant Aura - absolutelly useless in any style for now skill. It must be changed for solo usability same as sorcs Dark Deal - restore hp and stamina or only stminato caster only in cost of magick/hp, so solo templars or stamplars won't be so lack of resource managment.
Rite of Passage ultimate:
1. Remembrance - keep with current aoe group healing.
2. Practiced Incantation - make it work like heavy hot only for templar but allow him to move. At least one usefull sustain ultimate for solo templar.
Rune Focus morphs:
1. Channeled Focus - restoring magicka, i.e. only passive resource managment skill we have.
2. Restoring Focus - current Minor Vitality with 8% heal buff only inside rune is absolutely weak, however Major Vitalty with 30% buff will be no brainer too OP. Change it either to portable Minor Mending or make it work same as other morph, but instead of magicka - restore stamina.
Radial Sweep ultimate still need much improvement. Increase cost, radius, duration, fix bugs:
1.Empowering Sweep - for defensive play.
2. Crescent Sweep - offensive morph, but even weaker than another morph. For offensive play it should be changed to deal additional damage to all round targets based on number of targets got hit, again some templar version of proximity detonation, i.e. some burst aoe ultimate.
Any of those changes will help templar's sustain and will add so much needed diversity to this class. People won't be left with no brain decisisons but will be forced to choose - group play abilities or solo working abilities that Templar is lack of. And this is easy to make - just a little changes to morphs, not to base skills. Any time templars will have option to respec morphs and try either more solo skills or more group skills or even mix of group/solo skills.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Vast improvements... yeah right bring out your Templar and ACTUALLY play it.. then come back and post..
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
I'd hardly call them 'vast' improvements. We got a few nice things, and while I view the BoL nerf as a plug to go resto staff instead for main healing (particularly with the major mending change), most of the skills that were derptacular remain derptacular even though there has been YEARS of feedback on them. Did the 1m increase in radial sweeps range make the skill so amazeballs that you're now going to run it in competitive pvp? Eh?
People are to some extent getting too emotional on BoL, but a lot of the anger (I think) is just because templars needed so many more 'fixes' to skills. Some of them were so useless/broken I wouldn't even say they needed buffs, they needed fixes.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Vast improvements... yeah right bring out your Templar and ACTUALLY play it.. then come back and post..
If I could transfer it back to AD I would in a heartbeat.Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
I'd hardly call them 'vast' improvements. We got a few nice things, and while I view the BoL nerf as a plug to go resto staff instead for main healing (particularly with the major mending change), most of the skills that were derptacular remain derptacular even though there has been YEARS of feedback on them. Did the 1m increase in radial sweeps range make the skill so amazeballs that you're now going to run it in competitive pvp? Eh?
People are to some extent getting too emotional on BoL, but a lot of the anger (I think) is just because templars needed so many more 'fixes' to skills. Some of them were so useless/broken I wouldn't even say they needed buffs, they needed fixes.
LOL at your comment about Radiant Sweeps...That's disingenuous and you know it.
What about the increase damage to Dark Flare? Buff to damage and duration of Nova, increase duration of Vampire's Bane is nice. Radiant no longer dodgeable. Sweeps no longer giving a knockback, Javelin 28 m range...hopefully charge is finally fixed. Small Eclipse buff.
Does Templar still have skills that need improvement? Yup.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Vast improvements... yeah right bring out your Templar and ACTUALLY play it.. then come back and post..
If I could transfer it back to AD I would in a heartbeat.Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
I'd hardly call them 'vast' improvements. We got a few nice things, and while I view the BoL nerf as a plug to go resto staff instead for main healing (particularly with the major mending change), most of the skills that were derptacular remain derptacular even though there has been YEARS of feedback on them. Did the 1m increase in radial sweeps range make the skill so amazeballs that you're now going to run it in competitive pvp? Eh?
People are to some extent getting too emotional on BoL, but a lot of the anger (I think) is just because templars needed so many more 'fixes' to skills. Some of them were so useless/broken I wouldn't even say they needed buffs, they needed fixes.
LOL at your comment about Radiant Sweeps...That's disingenuous and you know it.
What about the increase damage to Dark Flare? Buff to damage and duration of Nova, increase duration of Vampire's Bane is nice. Radiant no longer dodgeable. Sweeps no longer giving a knockback, Javelin 28 m range...hopefully charge is finally fixed. Small Eclipse buff.
Does Templar still have skills that need improvement? Yup.
Again, yes, we got a few nice things, the change to jabs/sweep and dark flare being some of them. How is my comment about radial sweep disingenuous? It's been one of the most under-performing ultimates since launch, and feedback has been clear and consistent for years now. Templars still don't have a good ultimate to use when solo (sorcs have overload and atro, nb have siphon and soul assault, dk have leap and corrosive). The buff to nova is nice for groups, but only if it's crushed.
Javelin got a little extra range but the problem was more that it had a high cost, was mediocre damage, and it didn't have a lasting CC to counter the first two issues. With the increased range aurora will do more damage because of how the morph works, but until testing proves me otherwise I still think the cost to dmg ratio is off.
Even with the increased duration to vamp's bane, you'll do more damage using reflective in non 1v1 scenarios.
So, again, the main skills that had derp issues still have them. We got buffs, but we also got nerfs, particularly to our defensive capabilities in the purify projectile fix and the focus 'stand inside me or gtfo theme'.
I very, very much expected a fix to shield, and there was nothing. I expected a cleanup in the clunky animation for spears. I expected radial sweep to not be a stupid pulse in a 6m radius over 6 seconds. I expected Javelin to get more love than it got. I expected ritual to not be so clunky.
Do I think the reaction is slightly blown out of proportion to the templar patch notes? Yes. Do I think wrobel dropped the ball again on yet another wasted opportunity to fix the clunky animations, useless skills, and channel/cast time heavy theme of templar? Yes.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Vast improvements... yeah right bring out your Templar and ACTUALLY play it.. then come back and post..
If I could transfer it back to AD I would in a heartbeat.Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
I'd hardly call them 'vast' improvements. We got a few nice things, and while I view the BoL nerf as a plug to go resto staff instead for main healing (particularly with the major mending change), most of the skills that were derptacular remain derptacular even though there has been YEARS of feedback on them. Did the 1m increase in radial sweeps range make the skill so amazeballs that you're now going to run it in competitive pvp? Eh?
People are to some extent getting too emotional on BoL, but a lot of the anger (I think) is just because templars needed so many more 'fixes' to skills. Some of them were so useless/broken I wouldn't even say they needed buffs, they needed fixes.
LOL at your comment about Radiant Sweeps...That's disingenuous and you know it.
What about the increase damage to Dark Flare? Buff to damage and duration of Nova, increase duration of Vampire's Bane is nice. Radiant no longer dodgeable. Sweeps no longer giving a knockback, Javelin 28 m range...hopefully charge is finally fixed. Small Eclipse buff.
Does Templar still have skills that need improvement? Yup.
Zheg, c'mon, I don't think I need to really explain how that question was disingenuous...it's fairly obvious.
Channeled Focus was never supposed to give you Magicka outside of the Circle, and Purify wasn't supposed to cleanse projectiles. Though with that same logic Radiant was never supposed to be dodge able either.
Focus also got a nice damage mitigation buff, though that's for the other morph. I would have liked more buffs to Templar as well, but they have some really nice stuff right now that people should be excited about.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Healing is a bit over the top - and certain heals more than others. None more than BoL. You dont need to spec into healing very much for BoL to be effective because of how many BoL you can throw out per second as compared to the damage of someone purely built into damage. This is the byproduct of the changes in nerfing damage and healing by 50%. Yes people dont get instantly killed, and I agree with that and appreciate it. But I dont agree with 1 templar keeping a guy alive whos laying on the ground not CC breaking because 'hes a healer'. Once you have 2-3 templars forget about it, youre simply waiting for them to slack and not heal.
Healing should be supplemental to survival, in the same way blocking, dodging, buffing and other factors should be. When someone can just lay helplessly on the ground or even someone is sitting there AFK being kept alive while a DPS rips everything he has into him - theres a problem with healing. Its primarily BoL spam and its rate of fire. When you have someone actually spec'd into healing with a good survival build, you have the result of the healing templar I play with... able to survive against 5-10 players beating on him for at least 2minutes with heal spam. Its a joke on both ends.
Hi FENGRUSH:
You think healing is "over the top" from your perspective because you are a stamina sorc who specializes in damage. You think I heal too much with BoL? Too bad. L2P. Every decent stamina build in the game - and I'm assuming yours since you are a decent player can out DPS the big Breath of Life heal globly cooldown per global cooldown if you animation cancel. You only play a sorcerer who gets frustrated because you cant kill a healer fast enough (Gee, sorry for using my only survival tool...maybe you should stop using your survival tool like dodging and streaking if it bothers you so much). You have no idea what's it's like to play a healer or a templar otherwise you wouldn't be asking ZoS to nerf you competitors survival tools.
If you don't like healers so much, why don;t you try not maximizing your weapon damage and actually use the tools in the game to prevent it: you are a staimna build with easy access to reverberating bash and major defile and you choose not to use it. That's on you...not because heals are "out of control." If you reverberating bash a tempalr healer, they have to spend 2 global cooldowns just to get that debuff off (a CC break and a cleanse), in the meantime you could lay in 2 animation canceled heavy attacks, and two DPS skills of your choice which should be be enough to finish off the pesky templar.
If you trying to kill some guy who has 2-3 templars as in the scenario you described above, sorry that's a L2P issue on your part. Mot DPS just want to stack weapon damage and spam the highest damage skills and expect that to overcome any tanking or healing that other players do and when it doesn't work come to the forums and say that tanking and healing are over the top (and usually think dodge roll, on the other hand, was over-nerfed).
I die every night in Cyrodiil as do the players I heal. Quite frankly, it isn't that difficult.
Joy sums it up pretty well i thought
Fengrush has some good skills with that Stam Sorc of his but what i cannot understand is why he wouldn't come prepared into fighting for most of us are against overwhelming odds
I would of thought the obvious answer is bring a few mates that are Templars
Then i look forward to watching him protecting his Healers as that is who they will target first
Just like he does (apart from Nightblades who have the audacity to use stealth)
This is probably why Fengrush doesn't have Templars on his team: No one wants to play them in pvp, apart from a few healing die-hards.
Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
Vast improvements... yeah right bring out your Templar and ACTUALLY play it.. then come back and post..
If I could transfer it back to AD I would in a heartbeat.Hopefully the developers weren't listening to elitist players like Fengrush or whatever his name is that just likes hearing himself talk and for some god damn reason people putting him on a pod cast. Crying about how BoL ruins his kill fest for about 15 more seconds than it should, what a dufus. Drink more dude..
That said the developers clearly have a hate fest for Templars and you would think with a pretty strong backlash already documented for over a year on broken skills, nerfed skills and suspect design they would of come out strong in the other direction like they seem to have moved with DK. But no!, stay in your rune and heal for 1 less guy- your welcome.
This is a major bunch of ***. Hopefully we have some new gaming options in 2016 or they just delete the Templar option.
If your not able to see past a small nerf to BoL and the vast improvements everywhere else...
I'd hardly call them 'vast' improvements. We got a few nice things, and while I view the BoL nerf as a plug to go resto staff instead for main healing (particularly with the major mending change), most of the skills that were derptacular remain derptacular even though there has been YEARS of feedback on them. Did the 1m increase in radial sweeps range make the skill so amazeballs that you're now going to run it in competitive pvp? Eh?
People are to some extent getting too emotional on BoL, but a lot of the anger (I think) is just because templars needed so many more 'fixes' to skills. Some of them were so useless/broken I wouldn't even say they needed buffs, they needed fixes.
LOL at your comment about Radiant Sweeps...That's disingenuous and you know it.
What about the increase damage to Dark Flare? Buff to damage and duration of Nova, increase duration of Vampire's Bane is nice. Radiant no longer dodgeable. Sweeps no longer giving a knockback, Javelin 28 m range...hopefully charge is finally fixed. Small Eclipse buff.
Does Templar still have skills that need improvement? Yup.
Correct in the bold.
We received (2) nerfs, BOL and purifying ritual is now working as intended (it was an exploit that people let happen because templars didn't have much in terms of DPS.)
We gained a change to jabs, vamps bane duration increase, a morph of eclipse that's more like daedric curse and spamable, 28m range jav, and, best buff of all, CP magicka/elemental under one star!!!
They opened the floodgates for templars with regards to having additional options to address DPS. So the class returns to embrace the utilitarianism of the original intent for this class.
BOL was a major nerf, that sucks. But here's my take on the healing:
1) BOL no longer the spam heal. Based on the healing passive that adds health to severity of players wounds, this skill is now the "healing execute" its suppose to be. This make templars unique in that other classes have to stack bastion to use healing ward to receive similar effects. Not as bad a nerf as we think.
2) original boost to healing via using purifying ritual no longer viable for allies. But it gives us major mending which improves our overall heals. And lasts 8 seconds after we leave the circles. Obviously small buff to allow mobility.
3). Healing ritual will now be the main healing spam skill. Have to test, but it will compete with healing springs. Unique? Probably less so. But it is a " pulse heal" which aligns with how a Templar initiates a skill (aesthetic wise.)
4) restoring rune maybe our next tank skill. Minor protection. But requires us to standstill, so its obviously a pve tank upgrade.
5) Radiant aura now grants major intellect at activation. That's 30% more magicka recovery.
Must have stopped reading this thread at some point with all the negatvitiy coming out of it.dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Healing is a bit over the top - and certain heals more than others. None more than BoL. You dont need to spec into healing very much for BoL to be effective because of how many BoL you can throw out per second as compared to the damage of someone purely built into damage. This is the byproduct of the changes in nerfing damage and healing by 50%. Yes people dont get instantly killed, and I agree with that and appreciate it. But I dont agree with 1 templar keeping a guy alive whos laying on the ground not CC breaking because 'hes a healer'. Once you have 2-3 templars forget about it, youre simply waiting for them to slack and not heal.
Healing should be supplemental to survival, in the same way blocking, dodging, buffing and other factors should be. When someone can just lay helplessly on the ground or even someone is sitting there AFK being kept alive while a DPS rips everything he has into him - theres a problem with healing. Its primarily BoL spam and its rate of fire. When you have someone actually spec'd into healing with a good survival build, you have the result of the healing templar I play with... able to survive against 5-10 players beating on him for at least 2minutes with heal spam. Its a joke on both ends.
Hi FENGRUSH:
You think healing is "over the top" from your perspective because you are a stamina sorc who specializes in damage. You think I heal too much with BoL? Too bad. L2P. Every decent stamina build in the game - and I'm assuming yours since you are a decent player can out DPS the big Breath of Life heal globly cooldown per global cooldown if you animation cancel. You only play a sorcerer who gets frustrated because you cant kill a healer fast enough (Gee, sorry for using my only survival tool...maybe you should stop using your survival tool like dodging and streaking if it bothers you so much). You have no idea what's it's like to play a healer or a templar otherwise you wouldn't be asking ZoS to nerf you competitors survival tools.
If you don't like healers so much, why don;t you try not maximizing your weapon damage and actually use the tools in the game to prevent it: you are a staimna build with easy access to reverberating bash and major defile and you choose not to use it. That's on you...not because heals are "out of control." If you reverberating bash a tempalr healer, they have to spend 2 global cooldowns just to get that debuff off (a CC break and a cleanse), in the meantime you could lay in 2 animation canceled heavy attacks, and two DPS skills of your choice which should be be enough to finish off the pesky templar.
If you trying to kill some guy who has 2-3 templars as in the scenario you described above, sorry that's a L2P issue on your part. Mot DPS just want to stack weapon damage and spam the highest damage skills and expect that to overcome any tanking or healing that other players do and when it doesn't work come to the forums and say that tanking and healing are over the top (and usually think dodge roll, on the other hand, was over-nerfed).
I die every night in Cyrodiil as do the players I heal. Quite frankly, it isn't that difficult.
Joy sums it up pretty well i thought
Fengrush has some good skills with that Stam Sorc of his but what i cannot understand is why he wouldn't come prepared into fighting for most of us are against overwhelming odds
I would of thought the obvious answer is bring a few mates that are Templars
Then i look forward to watching him protecting his Healers as that is who they will target first
Just like he does (apart from Nightblades who have the audacity to use stealth)
This is probably why Fengrush doesn't have Templars on his team: No one wants to play them in pvp, apart from a few healing die-hards.
Pretty good line from someone who didnt watch me stream grouped with shuyinhail for like 3+months straight in the IC patch every single night? Yea - hes a pure healer. I wont count Essa - who was the 3rd guy in the group, also a templar... or any of the other templars Ive been grouped with in my small scale PvP.
I went back and cut a video off my youtube where I ranted about this kind of stuff. Deals with it better than writing a long post anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo
Looks like they changed BoL instead of addressing issues that impact the game on a grander scale - crazy resources through CP. You guys are looking for a scapegoat and you can blame FENGRUSH if you want - but misrepresenting me is pathetic especially when many of you never engaged in a discussion with me.
You cant control Im saying on my stream. A lot of you make assumptions and just run off on tangents based on 1 thing you heard, even if it was indirectly. Have at it - at the end of the day, Im just expressing my opinion.. I cant help that so many people agree with my point of view. Seems like Im probably right about something.
Must have stopped reading this thread at some point with all the negatvitiy coming out of it.dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Healing is a bit over the top - and certain heals more than others. None more than BoL. You dont need to spec into healing very much for BoL to be effective because of how many BoL you can throw out per second as compared to the damage of someone purely built into damage. This is the byproduct of the changes in nerfing damage and healing by 50%. Yes people dont get instantly killed, and I agree with that and appreciate it. But I dont agree with 1 templar keeping a guy alive whos laying on the ground not CC breaking because 'hes a healer'. Once you have 2-3 templars forget about it, youre simply waiting for them to slack and not heal.
Healing should be supplemental to survival, in the same way blocking, dodging, buffing and other factors should be. When someone can just lay helplessly on the ground or even someone is sitting there AFK being kept alive while a DPS rips everything he has into him - theres a problem with healing. Its primarily BoL spam and its rate of fire. When you have someone actually spec'd into healing with a good survival build, you have the result of the healing templar I play with... able to survive against 5-10 players beating on him for at least 2minutes with heal spam. Its a joke on both ends.
Hi FENGRUSH:
You think healing is "over the top" from your perspective because you are a stamina sorc who specializes in damage. You think I heal too much with BoL? Too bad. L2P. Every decent stamina build in the game - and I'm assuming yours since you are a decent player can out DPS the big Breath of Life heal globly cooldown per global cooldown if you animation cancel. You only play a sorcerer who gets frustrated because you cant kill a healer fast enough (Gee, sorry for using my only survival tool...maybe you should stop using your survival tool like dodging and streaking if it bothers you so much). You have no idea what's it's like to play a healer or a templar otherwise you wouldn't be asking ZoS to nerf you competitors survival tools.
If you don't like healers so much, why don;t you try not maximizing your weapon damage and actually use the tools in the game to prevent it: you are a staimna build with easy access to reverberating bash and major defile and you choose not to use it. That's on you...not because heals are "out of control." If you reverberating bash a tempalr healer, they have to spend 2 global cooldowns just to get that debuff off (a CC break and a cleanse), in the meantime you could lay in 2 animation canceled heavy attacks, and two DPS skills of your choice which should be be enough to finish off the pesky templar.
If you trying to kill some guy who has 2-3 templars as in the scenario you described above, sorry that's a L2P issue on your part. Mot DPS just want to stack weapon damage and spam the highest damage skills and expect that to overcome any tanking or healing that other players do and when it doesn't work come to the forums and say that tanking and healing are over the top (and usually think dodge roll, on the other hand, was over-nerfed).
I die every night in Cyrodiil as do the players I heal. Quite frankly, it isn't that difficult.
Joy sums it up pretty well i thought
Fengrush has some good skills with that Stam Sorc of his but what i cannot understand is why he wouldn't come prepared into fighting for most of us are against overwhelming odds
I would of thought the obvious answer is bring a few mates that are Templars
Then i look forward to watching him protecting his Healers as that is who they will target first
Just like he does (apart from Nightblades who have the audacity to use stealth)
This is probably why Fengrush doesn't have Templars on his team: No one wants to play them in pvp, apart from a few healing die-hards.
Pretty good line from someone who didnt watch me stream grouped with shuyinhail for like 3+months straight in the IC patch every single night? Yea - hes a pure healer. I wont count Essa - who was the 3rd guy in the group, also a templar... or any of the other templars Ive been grouped with in my small scale PvP.
I went back and cut a video off my youtube where I ranted about this kind of stuff. Deals with it better than writing a long post anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HJe5FjBIdo
Looks like they changed BoL instead of addressing issues that impact the game on a grander scale - crazy resources through CP. You guys are looking for a scapegoat and you can blame FENGRUSH if you want - but misrepresenting me is pathetic especially when many of you never engaged in a discussion with me.
You cant control Im saying on my stream. A lot of you make assumptions and just run off on tangents based on 1 thing you heard, even if it was indirectly. Have at it - at the end of the day, Im just expressing my opinion.. I cant help that so many people agree with my point of view. Seems like Im probably right about something.
Joy_Division wrote: »Hi @FENGRUSH ! Yes, I didn't like any of your opinions on that thread. Actually it wasn't so much that I didn't "like" them, it was that I felt like they targeted and attempt to address a single aspect of the game that did not consider the entire brokeness of the game. So, no, I would not like broken healing to be addressed but still have broken damage, broken infinite resource management, and all the other stuff you mention in your video because that just screws healers over.
Do I think you have been unfairly criticized and people see you as a boogie-man out to nerf healers? I do. Now. But that depiction was not just the product of some paranoid healers. When you first brought up this narrative, you basically just said "*** BoL!" and did not elaborate as you did in the "rant" video you posted above. First impressions. You became associated with the healing OP narrative that had and still has a lot of traction on these forums. Do I think the BoL nerf (and to a lesser degree funnel health) was does in large part to placate that crowd (as opposed to specifically you)? Yes I do. Do I give a sh*t or blame you for ruining my class? No I don't because it was obvious many people on these forums were under the impression that healing is too strong so ZoS had a legit reason to make such a change and I don't think templars are ruined. Also, I believe you have done more than enough to better flesh out your objections and comprehend why you deem healing is broken and that it is just a byproduct of a broken game. You now have made it clear that we can't just nerf BoL or healing and that is something I can appreciate. And that is why I think the anti-templar boogieman that people scapegoat you as is now unfair.
What might surprise you is that there was nothing you said in that video I could not disagree with and actually most of it I found myself saying, "Yep, that's right." I watched the whole thing. We are, and have been, playing a game for a year now where every class can pretty much do anything for an infinite amount of time because of out of control resources and no soft caps. You are right, we don't have to make choices any more. I dislike the fact broken healing is necessary to counteract broken damage and broken shields and broken/bugged skills and broken resource "management," but it is what it is.
Because of that, templars have to kick and scream at ZoS even if they consider nerfing BoL as they have no mobility, a sh*t shield, no more blinding flashes, and with this patch are losing a primary defense with the purify nerf and now will have to stay in their focus. just like as you said sorcs are 100% reliant on conjured ward. You are right in that templar utility and non BoL defenses need to be adjusted but until that happens, templars are not going to want even discuss a BoL nerf and I don't blame them. I can appreciate the retorts others might have in that having broken healing exist just because other stuff is broken is a poor justification for keeping it. To that I say too damn bad, let's nerf your broken sh*t first and then we'll deal with mine. Or, to be more eloquent, quid pro quo.
This patch tells me that ZoS has little intention on ever making ESO anything more than a beer and pretzels type of game that is relatively simple and meant to be fun as opposed to complex and attentive to detail. This was their second chance to address balance and we have seen more of the same: simple measures and arbitrary numbers to move the game in the direction away from what complaints have gotten a lot of attention on the forums. I do not think they have the resources or the priority to make the sort of complex interaction between healing, damage, CC, and number of players that you, myself, some of the more vocal people on these forums, and the many who have left are looking for. It is a shame, because I think the gameplay and general theory behind this game of managing resources as opposed to cooldowns are top-notch. At this point, I'd be satisfied with their beer and pretzels approach if the class I play can compete (as opposed to how), if my ping wasn't constantly over 400, and if they would just get rid of AoE caps.
Joy_Division wrote: »Hi @FENGRUSH ! Yes, I didn't like any of your opinions on that thread. Actually it wasn't so much that I didn't "like" them, it was that I felt like they targeted and attempt to address a single aspect of the game that did not consider the entire brokeness of the game. So, no, I would not like broken healing to be addressed but still have broken damage, broken infinite resource management, and all the other stuff you mention in your video because that just screws healers over.
Do I think you have been unfairly criticized and people see you as a boogie-man out to nerf healers? I do. Now. But that depiction was not just the product of some paranoid healers. When you first brought up this narrative, you basically just said "*** BoL!" and did not elaborate as you did in the "rant" video you posted above. First impressions. You became associated with the healing OP narrative that had and still has a lot of traction on these forums. Do I think the BoL nerf (and to a lesser degree funnel health) was does in large part to placate that crowd (as opposed to specifically you)? Yes I do. Do I give a sh*t or blame you for ruining my class? No I don't because it was obvious many people on these forums were under the impression that healing is too strong so ZoS had a legit reason to make such a change and I don't think templars are ruined. Also, I believe you have done more than enough to better flesh out your objections and comprehend why you deem healing is broken and that it is just a byproduct of a broken game. You now have made it clear that we can't just nerf BoL or healing and that is something I can appreciate. And that is why I think the anti-templar boogieman that people scapegoat you as is now unfair.
What might surprise you is that there was nothing you said in that video I could not disagree with and actually most of it I found myself saying, "Yep, that's right." I watched the whole thing. We are, and have been, playing a game for a year now where every class can pretty much do anything for an infinite amount of time because of out of control resources and no soft caps. You are right, we don't have to make choices any more. I dislike the fact broken healing is necessary to counteract broken damage and broken shields and broken/bugged skills and broken resource "management," but it is what it is.
Because of that, templars have to kick and scream at ZoS even if they consider nerfing BoL as they have no mobility, a sh*t shield, no more blinding flashes, and with this patch are losing a primary defense with the purify nerf and now will have to stay in their focus. just like as you said sorcs are 100% reliant on conjured ward. You are right in that templar utility and non BoL defenses need to be adjusted but until that happens, templars are not going to want even discuss a BoL nerf and I don't blame them. I can appreciate the retorts others might have in that having broken healing exist just because other stuff is broken is a poor justification for keeping it. To that I say too damn bad, let's nerf your broken sh*t first and then we'll deal with mine. Or, to be more eloquent, quid pro quo.
This patch tells me that ZoS has little intention on ever making ESO anything more than a beer and pretzels type of game that is relatively simple and meant to be fun as opposed to complex and attentive to detail. This was their second chance to address balance and we have seen more of the same: simple measures and arbitrary numbers to move the game in the direction away from what complaints have gotten a lot of attention on the forums. I do not think they have the resources or the priority to make the sort of complex interaction between healing, damage, CC, and number of players that you, myself, some of the more vocal people on these forums, and the many who have left are looking for. It is a shame, because I think the gameplay and general theory behind this game of managing resources as opposed to cooldowns are top-notch. At this point, I'd be satisfied with their beer and pretzels approach if the class I play can compete (as opposed to how), if my ping wasn't constantly over 400, and if they would just get rid of AoE caps.
That is an amazing post - and I agree with you strongly on the closing of them having little intention in making changes to better a goal. I dont think they have a goal - their only goal is to minimize complaints, which seemingly never end and with good reason. They have no vision and no direction and therefore they cannot communicate with the community what intended changes are supposed to be moving us towards. We just get dealt things in lump sums every few months and see friends leave the game and performance never improve.
This was their second chance to address balance for me - and coupled with the fact that they intend to add arenas, I cant realistically believe they will ever be any good if this is the idea of balance and we only get this every few months. There are likely 3-4 more large patches like this before arenas, so best of luck to the players who are still in the game when that happens, some classes are going to get the short end of a stick in what people choose to run in a 4v4.
I get the changes thing too as mentioned earlier, fixing before nerfing. Its as I say with WB - yes it should be changed, but other options need to be entertained as well too, or what do I realistically have to use on a stam sorc? I can use S+B right now to be fair, but if my fall back was the current dual weild and bow it would be a disaster having 0 stam morphs in a class that again - received absolutely 0 changes or even new skills. They even redid pets for magicka sorcs which had plenty of options, but generally speaking - 1 preferred route of playing (but all of the class skills enabled for their use). People just ran with the ideas of some things I said on ESO live which (while they were an issue related to larger groups ressing people endlessly with no penalty) took away that I was actually just saying the healing needed to be nerfed. I have been pretty offensive to BoL, but Ive also taken time to think it over and talk with healers and try to better understand the problem. It helps if everyone does. But ultimately, it benefits very little because at the end of the day ZOS will implement their solution to our perceived problems, not always the ones we want. Simpler is better for them, so best to not change big things when they can adjust small skills and say they 'made a good effort to fix it'. So it goes.