TheTwistedRune wrote: »Completely agree, let's ruin MM aswell while we're at it. Oh and let us not forget buff tracker addons, I am able to see other peoples buffs with those, including if they have eaten food in dungeons. Look at my "spying" on everyone.
To get back to GroupDamage:
Aslong as people are allowed to derp around and waste others time without any demand for self-improvement, they won't release more challenging content . If the population increases in skill then it demands more of the developers, that is what happened in WoW and they are getting better and better raids. But because people do not want to learn or to improve by other people being able to point out their flaws based on statistics, we will never have that developement, and ZOS is perfectly fine with this because it requires less of them as developers. They should not cater to casuals, they should cater to the players who know what they're doing. If people have nothing to aspire to the game dies and all that will be left is solo content and quests, and then this game dies as an MMO.
The problem here is you think that playing the "properly" is by min maxing etc. Not everybody agrees with you. Unless they ask, not everybody wants you telling them they can get more DPS this way, or that they are doing this wrong. Why? Because they probably don't care. What you would call a waste of time other people would call fun.
Not everybody plays for the same reason you do.
ZOS will cater to those who make them the most money. As they should.
TheTwistedRune wrote: »The problem here is you think that playing the "properly" is by min maxing etc. Not everybody agrees with you. Unless they ask, not everybody wants you telling them they can get more DPS this way, or that they are doing this wrong. Why? Because they probably don't care. What you would call a waste of time other people would call fun.
Not everybody plays for the same reason you do.
ZOS will cater to those who make them the most money. As they should.
Awesome post and I can't agree more. Personally, I play this game for the story, the lore, the exploration, and beauty of the virtual world. I even enjoyed muddling through Caldwell's Gold several times learning a bit more as I completed the zones. I eventually will venture more into group content once I've completed my laundry list of what I want to do solo. I've enjoyed group content in other MMOs however it quickly sours when some min/maxer is yelling at team mates in dungeons belittling them on their DPS, tanking or healing. Unfortunately these tools for "self improvement" are often not used wisely during your average group encounter. Rarely have I encountered some wise old sage in a dungeon say, "Florial, according to Recount I see you are a bit low on DPS. Can we discuss your skill sets, skill rotation after our run. Perhaps I can give you some pointers since I also play a (insert class)." The advice is more like, "U suck l2p noob, kill urself" (kick) I've found MMOs so much more mean spirited these days. Now I find it unusual when I don't get into a nasty group (speaking from my recent WoW experiences).
Don't get me wrong. I think DPS meters can be very useful. For the raiding guild, for players wishing to improve themselves. I've personally used DPS meters in most games I've played for MY self improvement. Perhaps an opt out feature would have been the best solution. Dunno. As to MM, this is such a useful tool for trading guilds. As another poster said, having active traders is vital for a successful trading guild. Guild leaders have every right to track sales, especially the guilds with very expensive traders. I belong to one very high volume trading guild and the guild leader does track our sales. Fair in my opinion and a necessary tool if you want to run a successful trading guild.
Better stay bad then get better right? I mean why do you even worry about those addons because you will never be able(nor do you want to I guess) to even join elitist grps with that attitude
Not the point.
Ofc I want to get better and monitor and optimize my performance. Big emphasis on my.
I decide what and when and to whom I show my performance statistics. And only I.
People can play however they want but when they go into a group with other people to overcome difficult content they have to compromise with that and do what is most effective, or at least effective, in order to not waste other peoples time. I am not saying people should be min/maxed, but I am saying they should strive to perform the best given their current gear and scenario. If that means someone telling you to stop spamming one skill and using another because its better, then you should swallow all that pride and aknowledge that following advice will make the run less miserable, even better would have been if you had looked up some information on your class beforehand but you're way past that at this point.
Take the snipe spamming idiot pulling 5k DPS, sure he has every right to play like that, and he has every right to not wanting to be critisized, but how long do you think his patience would last when he gets grouped up with his light attack spamming brother pulling 2k DPS?
People who don't want to improve shouldn't do group content, and as such have nothing to fear when it comes to other people checking their DPS, since they won't be if they stay out of group content.
You cannot expect that people should just drag you along, even in random group, because; "it is only a game" and "I can play how I want" and then tell people they can't complain. That is the most self-entitled bunch of guar *** I have read in a long while, way worse than people wanting content nerfed.
I don't play with randoms at all because I don't want people wasting my time, but that doesn't mean GroupDamage shouldn't be a thing, it totally should.
DPS meters is such a useful tool for group leader, and is vital for success in dungeons. Group leaders have every right to monitor everyones performance. I belong to a very high end raiding guild and our raid leaders track our DPS. Fair in my opinion and a necessary tool if you want to run a succesfull dungeon.
See how that argumentation works in both cases?
My problem are groups that expect flawless execution each dungeon run. Those players who belittle others when DPS isn't up to their standards. What about the player coming into a dungeon for the very first time? Now days it seems the norm to rage at that player instead of help. My first dungeon---the starter tutorial dungeon in Wildstar---was such a horrid experience that I never did another one. The amount of abuse--to players just learning their class---was over the top. No thanks. Group content should be fun. Laugh at mistakes. When you can't do that, I would ask why play a game?
@ZOS_AlanG
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Which raiding Guild (s) did you consult with before deciding to nerf an add-on important to them?
Why would they consult anyone when all they have done is removed something that should never have existed?Which raiding Guild (s) did you consult with before deciding to nerf an add-on important to them?
Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.
Valen_Byte wrote: »Regardless of how you stand on this topic. They have made their decision and it is what it is. These threads are a waste of time.
timidobserver wrote: »Valen_Byte wrote: »Regardless of how you stand on this topic. They have made their decision and it is what it is. These threads are a waste of time.
It is an extremely rare occurrence, but they have been known to reconsider their decisions when given enough support from the community. The people that support Group Damage should definitely continue to let ZOS know.
Valen_Byte wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Valen_Byte wrote: »Regardless of how you stand on this topic. They have made their decision and it is what it is. These threads are a waste of time.
It is an extremely rare occurrence, but they have been known to reconsider their decisions when given enough support from the community. The people that support Group Damage should definitely continue to let ZOS know.
Yes, I have seen them change things back. However, this is cut straight down the middle. There is no majority here. They will not change their minds on this one.
What it comes down to is that they never intended for this to be a thing. It was a mistake on there end. Some crafty addon creator found a way to...in zos's mind, exploit the damage numbers.
They simply corrected what they consider to be there mistake. That's that.
I see you couldn't come up with a good counter-argument. Nice picture
Why would they consult anyone when all they have done is removed something that should never have existed?
I see you couldn't come up with a good counter-argument. Nice picture
You're a community ambassador who is against ZOS consulting with the community.Why would they consult anyone when all they have done is removed something that should never have existed?
Just decon your forum title
Why can't people improve without this addonWhy blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.
The only way for a player to improve is to spy on their DPS?
There is no other way for a player to see what DPS they are doing themselves?
There is no other way for a player to show others what DPS they are doing if they choose?
What did you all do before this particular add on came out?
MaxwellCrystal wrote: »@Alcast
You forget this is ZoS we're talking about, logic on resonates when a minority wants something removed in-comparison to the majority.
Spying with addons like Master Merchant to see sales of people and get the average sellingprice etc: ALLOWED
Spying with addons like GroupDamage to see the DPS of players to help them improve etc: NOT ALLOWED
Any logic behind this?
Group Damage Addon was anyway only used in Progression guilds where people can not even enter who do not want to show their dps...so please...re-enable it
I also do not think that we have such an unhealthy environment where people are being kicked for not having certain dps. (A person who cannot fulfil their role and does not listen to advice is another thing tho)
Why can't people improve without this addonWhy blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.
The only way for a player to improve is to spy on their DPS?
There is no other way for a player to see what DPS they are doing themselves?
There is no other way for a player to show others what DPS they are doing if they choose?
What did you all do before this particular add on came out?
Ofcourse there is other ways. But it makes it a lot easier. It is kind of annyoing to share DPS every time. Here I could always compare my dmg to others and see If I did worse or better. And if I did worse I would ask dude how did you do that?
Nobody is spamming DPS log after every trash.
Spying with addons like Master Merchant to see sales of people and get the average sellingprice etc: ALLOWED
Spying with addons like GroupDamage to see the DPS of players to help them improve etc: NOT ALLOWED
Any logic behind this?
Group Damage Addon was anyway only used in Progression guilds where people can not even enter who do not want to show their dps...so please...re-enable it
Because elitist azzholes that they dont know anything better than just pressing 5 buttons in their life go and yell to other nice people below them in the dps meter list "LEARN TO PLAAAAYYYY" and whole game just turn to a dps race/*** race.. And some people think they cant play and stop playing with frustration. I withnessed that in WoW
Good call ZOS.
I do not think, and I do not hope that we in ESO have such a toxic environment
seriously, what is the point in banning Group Damage addon? why is someone not willing to share his/her dps with the rest of the group?
There's one thing I don't get. I've been mostly absent from ESO in the last months, so bear with me. I remember FTC used to have an opt-in function, what happened to it? Are all forms of group DPS disabled now? Couldn't ZOS still keep it opt-in, which I think would be an acceptable compromise?