Spying on Material Trade(MM) is fine but Spying on Group DPS is not?

Alcast · January 2016

Spying with addons like Master Merchant to see sales of people and get the average sellingprice etc: ALLOWED
Spying with addons like GroupDamage to see the DPS of players to help them improve etc: NOT ALLOWED
Any logic behind this?

Group Damage Addon was anyway only used in Progression guilds where people can not even enter who do not want to show their dps...so please...re-enable it

I also do not think that we have such an unhealthy environment where people are being kicked for not having certain dps. (A person who cannot fulfil their role and does not listen to advice is another thing tho)

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · January 2016

What's up with this spying stuff everywhere? Next someone complains that other players see their characters even in offline mode, wtf.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · January 2016

Oh did they remove the group dps add on?...
Bad players win I guess..

Zinaroth · January 2016

Completely agree, let's ruin MM aswell while we're at it. Oh and let us not forget buff tracker addons, I am able to see other peoples buffs with those, including if they have eaten food in dungeons. Look at my "spying" on everyone.

To get back to GroupDamage:

Aslong as people are allowed to derp around and waste others time without any demand for self-improvement, they won't release more challenging content . If the population increases in skill then it demands more of the developers, that is what happened in WoW and they are getting better and better raids. But because people do not want to learn or to improve by other people being able to point out their flaws based on statistics, we will never have that developement, and ZOS is perfectly fine with this because it requires less of them as developers. They should not cater to casuals, they should cater to the players who know what they're doing. If people have nothing to aspire to the game dies and all that will be left is solo content and quests, and then this game dies as an MMO.

Function · January 2016

They are pretty much telling us that they want bad players to stay bad.. why else would they remove such a beneficial tool?

riverdragon72 · January 2016

Xantaria · January 2016

riverdragon72 wrote: »

He has a damn valid point though. Disabling Group Damage was a bad decision catering to those crybabies who are afraid of getting kicked out of groups because they are baddies.

MrDerrikk · January 2016

It's not a perfect comparison though, as it doesn't give you the details of who was involved with every sale. It'd be the equivalent of seeing a graph of the different DPS amounts in the guilds you belong to (which would be awesome imo).

KhajiitiLizard · January 2016

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Alcast · January 2016

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Function · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

It's not a perfect comparison though, as it doesn't give you the details of who was involved with every sale. It'd be the equivalent of seeing a graph of the different DPS amounts in the guilds you belong to (which would be awesome imo).

That isn't true, master merchant tells you exactly who sold and bought each item and for how much.

murmur · January 2016

Function wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

It's not a perfect comparison though, as it doesn't give you the details of who was involved with every sale. It'd be the equivalent of seeing a graph of the different DPS amounts in the guilds you belong to (which would be awesome imo).

That isn't true, master merchant tells you exactly who sold and bought each item and for how much.

You can get that info without any addon though, just look at your guild history tab for sales...

Meshal · January 2016

AGREED

whsprwind · January 2016

why not an "opt out" option?

SorataArisugawa · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

Anhedonie · January 2016

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because there is no choice. If you decide to opt out then you're automatically considered bad dps.

Also, OP, WTF? Don't we have bigger problems? Like Lagodiil or camoexploits and stuff? Balance issues anyone? Yet, you're butthurting about some addon.

tengri · January 2016

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because "opt out" would actually mean "opt in or kick".

I really like that Z killed off this addon and showed all those self-proclaimed elitist wanting to easily judge other players performance where Z wants them... *points outside*.
Go play with yourself over there.

Kr3do · January 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because there is no choice. If you decide to opt out then you're automatically considered bad dps.

Also, OP, WTF? Don't we have bigger problems? Like Lagodiil or camoexploits and stuff? Balance issues anyone? Yet, you're butthurting about some addon.

Hey psst he made a camohunter oneshot build

Alcast · January 2016

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

Why would I kick people in my own guild? People that manage to get into the guild do have good dps no matter what. But still, everyone can optimize their dps and that is where the addon is helpful.
We sort out noobs long before we even start using that addon via Recruitment Application and based on our members experience with those people.

I do not run with random pugs. I do not need an addon to see that noobs have bad dps.

tengri wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because "opt out" would actually mean "opt in or kick".

I really like that Z killed off this addon and showed all those self-proclaimed elitist wanting to easily judge other players performance where Z wants them... *points outside*.
Go play with yourself over there.

lul
Better stay bad then get better right? I mean why do you even worry about those addons because you will never be able(nor do you want to I guess) to even join elitist grps with that attitude

MaxTM · January 2016

Completely agreed with your point. Make the Add-On work again! Please!

themdogesbite · January 2016

In PvP people in my group could be outside a keep and see which players were inside of it from another faction thanks to that addon..

I want it back aswell though. If anything ZoS can just make us a official thingy that could perhaps be toggeable? So that people that want to hide their numbers can and people that wants to share it have that option.

Vildebill · January 2016

The lack of understanding of removing the group damage add-on says more about you and your attitude towards other people. Personally i think the tool itself is great, but since you can't choose whether you want to share your DPS or not, their decision is totally understandable.

Perhaps you guys should take a look in the social skills mirror and think about what other people might feel about things like this, not just what you feel...

Wing · January 2016

so salty

Alcast · January 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

The lack of understanding of removing the group damage add-on says more about you and your attitude towards other people. Personally i think the tool itself is great, but since you can't choose whether you want to share your DPS or not, their decision is totally understandable.

Perhaps you guys should take a look in the social skills mirror and think about what other people might feel about things like this, not just what you feel...

When I run with casuals through vet dungeons I do not use this addon. I mean it does not matter at all how much dps ppl have there as long as you get to the end

But for Progression Raids the Addon was really helpful. And that is what bugs me.

Tyrion87 · January 2016

!!!!!
People, GET OVER IT. It's done and will never return.
I can understand the arguments of both of you, but if half of the players are happy and satisfied with the change, be it so!
Are you really not bored with the same threads and the same complaints over and over again?

Lately, this forum has become so sad, full of anger and frustration... It's not pleasant anymore to come here, read the comments and post your own comments. The discontent here has reached its peak and it concerns not only the group damage, but many other issues as well, like the recent overload bug resulting from the latest patch.
If I were in devs' shoes, I would feel simply sorry.
More understanding folks!

tengri · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Better stay bad then get better right? I mean why do you even worry about those addons because you will never be able(nor do you want to I guess) to even join elitist grps with that attitude

Not the point.
Ofc I want to get better and monitor and optimize my performance. Big emphasis on my.
I decide what and when and to whom I show my performance statistics. And only I.

Volkodav · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

Why would I kick people in my own guild? People that manage to get into the guild do have good dps no matter what. But still, everyone can optimize their dps and that is where the addon is helpful.
We sort out noobs long before we even start using that addon via Recruitment Application and based on our members experience with those people.

I do not run with random pugs. I do not need an addon to see that noobs have bad dps.

tengri wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because "opt out" would actually mean "opt in or kick".

I really like that Z killed off this addon and showed all those self-proclaimed elitist wanting to easily judge other players performance where Z wants them... *points outside*.
Go play with yourself over there.

lul
Better stay bad then get better right? I mean why do you even worry about those addons because you will never be able(nor do you want to I guess) to even join elitist grps with that attitude

I'll tell you something. The one thing I will NEVER want to be is part of are these so called "elitist" groups.Anyone who thinks they are better than others,which is what "elitist" means,isnt worth playing along side.

Vildebill · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

The lack of understanding of removing the group damage add-on says more about you and your attitude towards other people. Personally i think the tool itself is great, but since you can't choose whether you want to share your DPS or not, their decision is totally understandable.

Perhaps you guys should take a look in the social skills mirror and think about what other people might feel about things like this, not just what you feel...

When I run with casuals through vet dungeons I do not use this addon. I mean it does not matter at all how much dps ppl have there as long as you get to the end

But for Progression Raids the Addon was really helpful. And that is what bugs me.

Yeah i agree totally. If i would run with a PUG and someone wanted to see my DPS that would be fine too, but still i would have chosen it myself. That's the point with this removal, and i can't see why people won't understand that.

The best thing would be an option to choose whether you want to display your DPS or not.

Kippesnikke · January 2016

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

discuss*

Function · January 2016

Kippesnikke wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

discuss*

I'm just going to copy and paste something I said in another thread about this same thing..

I think you are missing the point, a huge benefit of a group damage meter is to see how you are doing compared to others IN REAL TIME. Asking them to constantly post their parse would just be annoying.

MaxTM · January 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Why not show overall group DPS? It's a good compromise. So it's the group to blame and not a just one player.

Why blame? We are looking to improve players, we do not "blame" a single player
It was also nice to compare my damage to others to see where I do better and where I do worse.

Yeah right.
Because something like that is not used to blame. Never... If you want to improve players, ask them to link there DMG after the fight. You could diskuss it based on there free will than. But with that addon, everbody could easily dismiss players just because they had one bad fight. Good it is gone. It destroys the civilized behaviour of the community in a way.

Why would I kick people in my own guild? People that manage to get into the guild do have good dps no matter what. But still, everyone can optimize their dps and that is where the addon is helpful.
We sort out noobs long before we even start using that addon via Recruitment Application and based on our members experience with those people.

I do not run with random pugs. I do not need an addon to see that noobs have bad dps.

tengri wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

why not an "opt out" option?

Because "opt out" would actually mean "opt in or kick".

I really like that Z killed off this addon and showed all those self-proclaimed elitist wanting to easily judge other players performance where Z wants them... *points outside*.
Go play with yourself over there.

lul
Better stay bad then get better right? I mean why do you even worry about those addons because you will never be able(nor do you want to I guess) to even join elitist grps with that attitude

I'll tell you something. The one thing I will NEVER want to be is part of are these so called "elitist" groups.Anyone who thinks they are better than others,which is what "elitist" means,isnt worth playing along side.

Live and let live. There are some super casuals, there are some progress players. And if someone blames a group for DPS/Heals/Aggro loss/[whatever you can find to blame someone] it's simply because that person is a ***.
And Progress Player =/= Elitist.