We need a Veteran Tamriel

Gidorick · January 2016

With the recent announcement of the changes coming to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold (pretty much they are going to be leveled to 50) there is an opportunity with Tamriel. I am hoping ZOS will implement the following changes to open up end-game PVE for all players:

Implement Veteran Alliance Zones: Once a player gains access to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold their home alliance should ALSO be scaled up. Functionally, players should gain access to a NEW version of their home alliance zones. These zones should be scaled to level 50 and should be separated from the 1-50 pre-end-game players. However, all the player’s achievements and progressions should carry over. This would allow players to play through older quests and clear out zones they haven’t completely finished without compromising their CP gains.
Bring EVERYONE together: Once a player reaches end game ALL veteran players should be playing in the game zones. The fact that all zones would be leveled to level 50 would mean there would be no leveling issues.
Master Leveling: Players should then also have the opportunity to join and level to other players in the older, lower level zones, irrespective of their level. Master Leveling should be a toggle all players have access to similar to Battle Leveling. Instead of leveling a player to the zone, Master Leveling levels a player to the leader of their group. This can be utilized by all players at any time and can level the player up or down. Any player who wishes to group across the Veteran threshold of level 50 should be required to have Master Leveling activated. Once they group, they should then only be allowed to "travel to leader". Players who has Master Leveling enabled should no be able to traveled to. Once the player leaves the group, they are returned to their home instance of the zone they are in via wayshrine travel.

If these three things were added to ESO, we would see level 1-50 players play in their own zones separate from veteran players and the veterans would play in a completely shared Tamriel with the option to join and scale to their non-vet friends if they so desired.

Thoughts?

Totalitarian · January 2016

I think a second go at Coldharbour would be cool. Imagine going through Coldharbour after having done all three storylines for the Alliances. Imagine the special dialogue.

nimander99 · January 2016

I believe (and desperately hope!) we will see the path to something like this, basically every zone is like Orsinium. Starter zones on up. The world desperately needs to be opened back up so it can be a true Elder Scrolls game. So either every zone like Orsinium or a Guild Wars 2 style system where we would revert in level to the zone we are in but rewards and exp would be on par with our natural level.

By the friggin Eight I can't wait for this! Open Tamriel back up ZoS! It's beautiful and I want to be able to go anywhere in game but not feel penalized or wasting time for going there.

Enodoc · January 2016

Because it is my wont to do so on your threads

here's a post of mine which is along the same lines:

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran Scaling for your own Alliance
Using the Normal/Veteran Toggle, you can toggle between the standard 1-43 zones of your alliance, or a Veteran-scaled version that is comparable to the Cadwell Zones. This way you can choose which zones to play in without anything being too low level to be worth it. [This can be combined with my suggestions for PvE solo dailies from the Mages and Fighters Guilds so you can continue to quest in those zones as well]

Cross-Faction PvE
With the Cadwell Zones being flattened, there will no longer be a VR 2 and a VR 7 version of a Tier 2 zone, because all Tier 2 zones will be comparable. This means veterans of all alliances will be playing in versions of the zone that are exactly the same as each other (like Coldharbour and Craglorn are now). Therefore, one of the primary reasons why cross-faction PvE could not work in these zones is removed. A toggle in the Settings menu called "Enable Cross-Faction PvE" will determine whether you are put into a cross-faction zone shard or a single-faction zone shard. [This can be extended to include Coldharbour, Craglorn, the Earth Forge, and Eyevea, as I have mentioned elsewhere, using the same toggle setting]

petraeus1 · January 2016

I feel ESO is in a bit of a weird spot with all the different shards of Tamriel going on. With the coming changes to Cadwell's, there's the opportunity to merge Cadwell's zones and reduce them from 2 to 1 of each zone, but there would still be two versions of each zone in the game: a normal version and a Cadwell's version. I agree that giving veterans access to the Cadwell version of their home faction instead of the normal version is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of separating new players from veteran players entirely. I'd personally rather they do away with Cadwell's entirely, and implement a proper downscaling system, so there would be only one version of each zone per server (not counting duplicates that might be made once a population cap is reached).

The downside is that the leveling zones would still be relatively trivial, even if the downscaling is thorough, as you have better gear and more skills as a veteran, but then again: they're the leveling zones, so I don't feel that's too important. I imagine new zones be designed with veterans in mind. Another downside is that you'd be playing with new AD players as a player of say DC. It would be odd and enable trashtalk, but wouldn't that be the same for cross-faction Cadwell's zones? There's already an excuse lorewise for going through other factions' zones, so there's that.

I like the idea of an open, shared Tamriel. I just don't like the idea of separating new players and vets entirely. You want new players to be able to ask questions, to find guilds with veteran players, etc.

tengri · January 2016

Cross faction PvE zones would be nice indeed.

However... I truly believe Z does not have the server capacity needed for that. Or the manpower to change the code. Not even close. They dont even have the manpower to properly test their releases. No way in hell.

And given the fact that everything gold/silver related is rather old content they can not charge again for... improvements on that front are highly unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Enodoc · January 2016

petraeus1 wrote: »

I agree that giving veterans access to the Cadwell version of their home faction instead of the normal version is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of separating new players from veteran players entirely. I'd personally rather they do away with Cadwell's entirely, and implement a proper downscaling system, so there would be only one version of each zone per server (not counting duplicates that might be made once a population cap is reached).

On that, I would say that it should be as well as, not instead of. That way, Veteran players would still be able to enter the 1-50 version of their home alliance zones to help new players, collect low tier mats, etc.

So a Veteran DC player would have these options:

Enter the Normal version of DC zones, with only DC players.
Enter the Veteran version of DC zones, with veterans from all factions.
Enter the Veteran versions of EP and AD zones, along with EP and AD veterans.

Downscaling could still be introduced, optionally, for a Veteran player entering their Normal zones. But I think keeping "new" players of one alliance away from "Veteran" players of the other alliances is necessary by lore. The given lore explanation only applies to veteran players. Of course that may be changing; we need to see how the other alliance zones are introduced lorewise in the next Update, when completion of the Main Quest is no longer required.

Zinaroth · January 2016

I would love for my alliance (EP) to scale to my level, that would mean I could farm the last trophies I am missing without going through terrible loop holes just because ZOS didn't use the inside of their heads when they made the trophy system and then changed them to be bound to character.

petraeus1 · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

I agree that giving veterans access to the Cadwell version of their home faction instead of the normal version is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of separating new players from veteran players entirely. I'd personally rather they do away with Cadwell's entirely, and implement a proper downscaling system, so there would be only one version of each zone per server (not counting duplicates that might be made once a population cap is reached).

On that, I would say that it should be as well as, not instead of. That way, Veteran players would still be able to enter the 1-50 version of their home alliance zones to help new players, collect low tier mats, etc.

So a Veteran DC player would have these options:
Enter the Normal version of DC zones, with only DC players.

Enter the Veteran version of DC zones, with veterans from all factions.

Enter the Veteran versions of EP and AD zones, along with EP and AD veterans.

Downscaling could still be introduced, optionally, for a Veteran player entering their Normal zones. But I think keeping "new" players of one alliance away from "Veteran" players of the other alliances is necessary by lore. The given lore explanation only applies to veteran players. Of course that may be changing; we need to see how the other alliance zones are introduced lorewise in the next Update, when completion of the Main Quest is no longer required.

The given lore explanation gives veterans the opportunity to see what it would've been like had they started out in another alliance. I think that is perfectly compatible with allowing veteran players of say DC play alongside new players of AD or EP. I'm not a fan the proposal: the idea of having to select which map shard you wanna enter I find kinda lame, and there would be very little reason for vets to mingle with new players. I also don't like optional downscaling, that's only viable if you keep a normal and veteran version of each zone. Options for options' sake or the wish to one-shot low level mobs are reasons I never understood (the latter has on more than one occasion disrupted my leveling experience in delves, public dungeons, dolmens where high level players came in and shot everything down).

Volkodav · January 2016

I find that once I hit Silver,there usually isnt very many players around.It's like being all by myself in a single player game again.This has just been my experience anyway.
To separate vets from non-vets would just make it even more silent.

Mike0987 · January 2016

I would agree, scale the zones up but leave the resources the way they are or they will become unavailable for the most part. My upper level crafter still needs access to dwarven ingots ect... or it limits who I can craft for to only high levels without the resources available.

Enodoc · January 2016

petraeus1 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

I agree that giving veterans access to the Cadwell version of their home faction instead of the normal version is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of separating new players from veteran players entirely. I'd personally rather they do away with Cadwell's entirely, and implement a proper downscaling system, so there would be only one version of each zone per server (not counting duplicates that might be made once a population cap is reached).

On that, I would say that it should be as well as, not instead of. That way, Veteran players would still be able to enter the 1-50 version of their home alliance zones to help new players, collect low tier mats, etc.

So a Veteran DC player would have these options:
Enter the Normal version of DC zones, with only DC players.

Enter the Veteran version of DC zones, with veterans from all factions.

Enter the Veteran versions of EP and AD zones, along with EP and AD veterans.

Downscaling could still be introduced, optionally, for a Veteran player entering their Normal zones. But I think keeping "new" players of one alliance away from "Veteran" players of the other alliances is necessary by lore. The given lore explanation only applies to veteran players. Of course that may be changing; we need to see how the other alliance zones are introduced lorewise in the next Update, when completion of the Main Quest is no longer required.

The given lore explanation gives veterans the opportunity to see what it would've been like had they started out in another alliance. I think that is perfectly compatible with allowing veteran players of say DC play alongside new players of AD or EP. I'm not a fan the proposal: the idea of having to select which map shard you wanna enter I find kinda lame, and there would be very little reason for vets to mingle with new players. I also don't like optional downscaling, that's only viable if you keep a normal and veteran version of each zone. Options for options' sake or the wish to one-shot low level mobs are reasons I never understood (the latter has on more than one occasion disrupted my leveling experience in delves, public dungeons, dolmens where high level players came in and shot everything down).

That explains veteran players being in those zones on the part of the veteran players, but where's the lore explanation for the new players of why there are veterans of other alliances there? The new players are running the primary timeline as members of that alliance, and they have no knowledge of the alternate timeline introduced for the veterans. But maybe such an explanation is not required; the alternate timeline is the primary timeline for those of the other alliance.

I do agree though. I would much rather see downscaling for everyone, and everyone playing alongside each other. But there will be those who oppose downscaling on the grounds of "where's my sense of progression gone?", and those who oppose cross-faction in the alliance zones on the grounds of faction loyalty ("why would I be helping the enemy rather than killing them"), disregarding the lore that explains that you're "seeing through your enemies' eyes" during those quests.

Gidorick · January 2016

Oh I would 100% prefer an end game that would include things like... (all links are to my own threads)

I would love for EVERYONE to play together in the same zones and just give players the option to level to zone... or play as their level. I think the whole concept of veteran zones is counter to the concept of an MMO and an RPG. If ZOS didn't want to "deal" with levels, they should have made a DOOM MMO.... But I've given up hoping for a complex leveling mechanic for end game.

This is because, similar to @tengri , I think ZOS is showing us that they don't have the resources (or skill) to make these changes effectively. The suggestion of this thread is asking for what I believe should be the minimum standard for ESO. The fact that I can go back to old zones, play for hours and get ZERO XP is lubricious.

Again... I would PREFER a downscaling mechanic but if not that... I want to be able to access the veteran version of my home alliance.

Spacemonkey · January 2016

This is one of those things that we discussed in length near the end of Beta and early release. Everyone did keep saying how once you hit Vet, you should be able to mix with the other alliances. The level of the zones was more of an excuse than anything else.

I'm honestly a bit baffled by the reasoning, but the point is that there has NEVER been a good reason as to why keep us split from other alliances.

As a lvl 50 or VET, I don't even CARE if the other 2 zones are lvled 1-50. I'll go find the skyshards and beat the bosses regardless. On that point however, I do understand the extra griefing new players would get from vets from the other 2 alliances running around killing all the bosses ect.

So as @Gidorick stated, it's really just about have 2 modes. Starter mode (your starting alliance shard) and vet mode. (all vets in that shard). Thats 2 for each zone. Which is actually less than the current 3.

But like I said, this has already all been said... maybe if we link plenty of zos people and shove it down their eye sockets? (Don't take offense in my gruesomlyness, it's morning and work sucks)

We are counting on you to relay this topic @ZOS_GinaBruno 'Ambassador of the people', do not let us down!!

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

I think the simple approach is to keep the other two alliances NPCs at 50 and treat all those zones like how Orsinium treats things.
I would like to see some other major changes to silver and gold zones as well but just for this topic....I don't agree

Elloa · January 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

I believe (and desperately hope!) we will see the path to something like this, basically every zone is like Orsinium. Starter zones on up. The world desperately needs to be opened back up so it can be a true Elder Scrolls game. So either every zone like Orsinium or a Guild Wars 2 style system where we would revert in level to the zone we are in but rewards and exp would be on par with our natural level.

By the friggin Eight I can't wait for this! Open Tamriel back up ZoS! It's beautiful and I want to be able to go anywhere in game but not feel penalized or wasting time for going there.

I so much agree with that! While @Gidorick is cool, I'd prefer a mentoring system for your Home Alliance, where you can scale down to play with new players.
Like explained in this video, I very much like the way GW2 is working. And is that's not possible a metoring system like WIldstar or FFXIV could be enough.

petraeus1 · January 2016

Something else to consider is zone population. GW2 held off from making new maps for a long time after launch: they released a map with no content like two months after launch, only to add a tiny zone step by step 2 years later. They did this because they had no megaserver tech at the time, and didn't want to spread the population too thin. It's reasonable to assume ESO's population is maturing. With the launch on all platforms over 6 months ago, the B2P transition and recent sales, the influx of new players won't be as big in the coming months. But people keep leveling up and ZOS keeps adding new zones: veteran players will flock to new stuff, the rest drags behind. There's already the huge issue that Silver and Gold maps are practically deserted, especially Gold. Merging veteran maps by cross-faction alleviates that, but in the long run you kinda want everyone on the same map version so you can guarantee a healthy population in each zone. If zones get too busy, you can always open an overflow version or something - still better than deserted maps imo.

Snowgoons · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

With the recent announcement of the changes coming to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold (pretty much they are going to be leveled to 50) there is an opportunity with Tamriel. I am hoping ZOS will implement the following changes to open up end-game PVE for all players:
Implement Veteran Alliance Zones: Once a player gains access to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold their home alliance should ALSO be scaled up. Functionally, players should gain access to a NEW version of their home alliance zones. These zones should be scaled to level 50 and should be separated from the 1-50 pre-end-game players. However, all the player’s achievements and progressions should carry over. This would allow players to play through older quests and clear out zones they haven’t completely finished without compromising their CP gains.

Bring EVERYONE together: Once a player reaches end game ALL veteran players should be playing in the game zones. The fact that all zones would be leveled to level 50 would mean there would be no leveling issues.

If these two things were added to ESO, we would see level 1-50 players play in their own zones separate from veteran players and the veterans would play in a completely shared Tamriel

Thoughts?

My thoughts are this is an amazing idea that should have already been thought of by the people that will ultimately not listen to this idea and implement it.

But hey least we have a different color goat in the crown store, cause everyone in the community wanted that right?

Mashille · January 2016

@Gidorick

Slight issue with having new scaled zones for your alliance, what if you wanted to play with a lower level or newbie friend with your character, or craft items for lower level players.

Gidorick · January 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Gidorick

Slight issue with having new scaled zones for your alliance, what if you wanted to play with a lower level or newbie friend with your character, or craft items for lower level players.

As I have said @keybaud, I have asked for a down-leveling concept in the past and ZOS has shown this concept pretty much ZERO attention. I would prefer a leveling down concept but I really don't know if ZOS is even able to implement such a system, but we know they can just make everything one level and up-level players.

Mashille · January 2016

@Gidorick

I wouldn't mind if all zones were just like Wrothgar to be honest.

Gidorick · January 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@Gidorick

I wouldn't mind if all zones were just like Wrothgar to be honest.

Even low level zones @keybaud ... what would be the point of having levels at all... of course, I ask that question with the concept of having a level cap at all... but that's for another thread which was posted months and months ago.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

I want this so bad.

There are so many places that i would love to quest and thief around but as it stand's... i just one shot everything. Give me repeatable quest's or world boss quest's to go to old zones etc.

Gidorick · February 2016

I agree that a mentoring system would be highly desired @Elloa , I added a Master Leveling concept to allow for this possibility, as well as opening up other opportunities for players.

Gidorick wrote: »

Master Leveling: Players should then also have the opportunity to join and level to other players, irrespective of their level. Master Leveling should be a toggle all players have access to similar to Battle Leveling. Instead of leveling a player to the zone, Master Leveling levels a player to the leader of their group. This can be utilized by all players at any time and can level the player up or down. Any player who wishes to group across the Veteran threshold of level 50 should be required to have Master Leveling activated. Once they group, they should then only be allowed to "travel to leader". Players who has Master Leveling enabled should no be able to traveled to. Once the player leaves the group, they are returned to their home instance of the zone they are in via wayshrine travel.

Teridaxus · February 2016

Im so tired of grinding in the ep/ad silver/gold zones.
I picked the covenant. I want to play there for max level things.

Gidorick · February 2016

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

Im so tired of grinding in the ep/ad silver/gold zones.
I picked the covenant. I want to play there for max level things.

LOL @mzapkeneb18_ESO I never even looked at it from that perspective.... we are outright discouraged from playing in our HOMES...

Dubhliam · February 2016

It always amazes me how constructive an innovative posts such as these never get any attention neither from players nor ZOS.
And the amount of nerf/buff/hate/whine threads generated per minute are stunning and always bump down constructive threads in amazing speeds.

OT:
I would not mind if the OP's suggestion gets implemented, but I gave a slightly different suggestion tackling with the now futile idea of implementing the PvP Justice:

.        ADzone  EPzone  DCzone
1-50    | AD    | EP    | DC    | <- normal Justice System
veteran | DC+EP | AD+DC | EP+AD | <- PvP Justice System

The idea is that the new "Larceny" quests should have a veteran daily that sends you to vet zones for better rewards but higher risk.
In that case, having multiple instances of your home alliance maps would just be confusing.

Details in sig, not that it will do any good since we know we won't be getting a new Justice System.
I am usually all in favor of ZOS earning money through new content, but I am most definitely not buying the TG DLC in it's current state.
Sorry if it is a bit offtopic.

PriorityBalle · February 2016

We need a new Elder Scroll game.

Rabbyrow1234 · February 2016

Sound idea for endgame

Gidorick · February 2016

Rabbyrow1234 wrote: »

Sound idea for endgame

And with the Master Leveling, players could visit the "non-vet" version of ANY zone, as long as they are grouped with a non-vet leader.

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?