Cadwell’s Redux: Concept to Fix Silver & Gold #FreeTamriel

Gidorick

To begin this specific concept I would like to make it perfectly clear that I know that ZOS has said that they have no plans to change Cadwell’s Silver and Gold. This doesn’t mean, however, we can’t dream of how it could change to better fit the game.

TL/DR
Cadwell’s silver and gold main quests should both involve players fighting in opposition of the other two factions instead of “experiencing the perspective of the enemy”.

Topics:

• The Friend of my Enemy
• On the Level… With Your Friends
• Side Quests and Guilds
• Supporting the Cause

The Friend of my Enemy (inspired by @NadiusMaximus' post HERE)
Each player, as they visit a different faction, should do so as a representative from their faction and as the Vestige. After completing their faction's quests, players are sent to the other factions to aid their people. This can be accompanied by a stretching of the main questline over all three factions so that the player goes to Coldharbour after they complete all three faction quest lines.

• Revised Faction/Quest Order
  • Main Faction Quests
  • Silver Quests
  • Gold Quests
  • Coldharbour
  • Craglorn

There would have to be tweaks to some of the questlines of other factions while the player is going thorough opposing factions to fit their story. Overall the concept would be that the Vestige, while loyal to their faction, is working toward the greater good of Tamriel by stopping Molag Bal.

Coldharbour would then, for all intents and purposes, be a “Veteran Zone”.

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Cadwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

(Thanks to @Mastodonials for his comments on the thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185610/lazy-endgame-possible-spoilers-freetamriel)

Side Quests and Guilds
Even though you are in an enemy’s territory, it doesn’t mean you are heartless. If the citizens of Tamriel are in need, you will surely lend a hand. This means that all of the side quests in Silver and Gold should remain unchanged by this refocused main-quest. All the good people of these zones need to know is that you are a capable adventurer that can help them in their time of need. All side quests would have Leveled XP and Gold rewards

The result is that the only quests that would be different between someone going through those zones as 1-50 and those going through those zones as a VR player would be the main quest itself.

Since the Mages and Fighter’s Guild quest lines have already been completed, players should be able to continue their service to their Guilds by performing the repeatable Guild quests as outlined in my thread Continued Viability of Fighters & Mages Guild: Concept and Discussion.

Supporting the Cause
For their support and effort in the enemy's faction, players should receive not only personal rewards, but rewards to help them in the faction war and rewards that help their faction's soldiers who are fighting the good fight in Cyrodiil.

Each main and side quest in Silver and Gold should reward players with:

• Experience Points: XP rewards should remain the same
• Gold/Items as applicable: Gold and Item rewards should remain the same
• Alliance Points: A small amount of Alliance Points for the player to spend in Cyrodiil
• AP Faction Buffs: There could be any number of buffs that could help the entire faction here. One idea would be to award a very very small percentage off of the cost of Siege Weapons.
  • Example:Each quest completed gives a 0.01% discount on all Siege Weapons for 30 minutes. The discount is cumulative so that all players completing quests in Silver and Gold are working towards giving their faction Siege Weapon discounts. If 1000 people complete Silver/Gold quests in a faction in a 30 minute period, that would add up to 10% off of the cost of Siege Weapons.
  What are some of your ideas for Faction Buffs?

Note: The Alliance rewards should NOT be earned through he repeatable Guild quests.

Review
These changes would vastly improve Silver and Gold by making them vital to not only player progression, but to the faction war. The un-repeatable nature of the alliance-benefitting quests would encourage players to build and run alternate characters through Silver and Gold. Having separate main-story quests would encourage players to play through each alliance at least once to see the whole story.

These changes would enable Silver and Gold to be seen as part of the ESO narrative, not just something that needs to be grinded through to reach max level.

If VR ranks were changed to 30 regular levels (as outlined in my Level 50-80: VR Replacement New-ish Concept thread) Silver and Gold would feel less like end game content and more like a natural progression of the game itself.

Would changes like these make the game better? Would it make it worse? Do you like Silver and Gold as is? Do you have a different change in mind that you would prefer?

#FreeTamriel

Gidorick

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Thanks!

Why? Elaborate man, use your words! Did you read all of it? You posted 1 minute after I posted. I'm not sure you took the time to actually READ the concept before you made a snap judgment.

And... I'm willing to guess you've not read many of my other ideas. Some are pretty far out there.

Cry_Wolfe

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Anything would be better than the cop out that ZoS inflicted on the games community.

Gidorick

Cry_Wolfe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Anything would be better than the cop out that ZoS inflicted on the games community.

That's pretty much where I started with the idea. I thought

1: I dislike the whole "experience the other faction" as a CONCEPT
2: We really should be playing with other players from that faction, not in a separate instance.
3: However, it should still level us appropriately

Cry_Wolfe

@Gidorick ,

yeah as it stands the only reason for specific faction choice is about grouping choices.

There is no real faction pride when you are forced to play EVERY DAMN quest for all of the factions ... as each specific faction. Once again ZoS management's stingy corporate mentality of valuing accountancy over quality is apparent. Sorry if I am being overly negative, but the more I pay attention the more I see the pattern emerge.

I am happy to spread the love vis-a-vis the community, but as far as ZoS as a company goes, I am tired of being ridden roughshod because the upper tier of ZoS identify more with mobile gaming producers than the likes of which produced this IP.

/pout

Gidorick

I feel ya @Cry_Wolfe. Anymore, I spend more time dreaming what ESO COULD have been than playing it. When I play it, I just see the many, many ways ESO hasn't been "finished'.

I hope ESO lasts long enough for it's potential to be mostly realized.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I've always thought that the Cadwells quest lines were stupid beyond belief.

I've just spent 50 levels fighting for the EP against the AD and DC, and now I'm off helping the DC, and when I'm done helping DC (fighting EP and AD) I can then head off and help the AD fight the DC and EP.

Meaning that the net outcome of my 50+ levels and untold hours of effort is... ...precisely NOTHING

WTF?

Really?

What were they on when they came up with this half-donkeyed idea?

All The Best

ElricFrancis

Gidorick wrote: »

To begin this specific concept I would like to make it perfectly clear that I know that ZOS has said that they have no plans to change Caldwell’s Silver and Gold. This doesn’t mean, however, we can’t dream of how it could change to better fit the game.

TL/DR
Caldwell’s silver and gold main quests should both involve players fighting in opposition of the other two factions instead of “experiencing the perspective of the enemy”.

Topics:

• Opposing Faction
• On the Level… With Your Friends
• Side Quests and Guilds
• Supporting the Cause

Opposing Faction
Each player, as they visit an opposing faction, should do so as the enemy. Each of the main story quests in Silver and Gold should have the player fighting against Queen Ayrenn, High King Emeric, or High King Jorunn. These would be an entirely separate quest lines from what players experience if they are from that faction. And should take place after the level 1-50 narrative of each faction. It can involve characters and, even reference quests from that faction’s main story line, but the narrative would be from the opposition’s perspective. Perhaps a player will rekindle a resistance group or encourage a defeated NPC to try again.

The point is: you are in the enemy faction and are working to support your own. Perhaps as a double agent. Perhaps as a straight up enemy. These quests would be an ENTIRELY new story and wouldn’t necessarily have to be as large or robust as the main 1-50 quest lines.

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Caldwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

(Thanks to @Mastodonials for his comments on the thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185610/lazy-endgame-possible-spoilers-freetamriel)

Side Quests and Guilds
Even though you are in an enemy’s territory, it doesn’t mean you are heartless. If the citizens of Tamriel are in need, you will surely lend a hand. This means that all of the side quests in Silver and Gold should remain unchanged by this refocused main-quest. All the good people of these zones need to know is that you are a capable adventurer that can help them in their time of need. All side quests would have Leveled XP and Gold rewards

The result is that the only quests that would be different between someone going through those zones as 1-50 and those going through those zones as a VR player would be the main quest itself.

Since the Mages and Fighter’s Guild quest lines have already been completed, players should be able to continue their service to their Guilds by performing the repeatable Guild quests as outlined in my thread Continued Viability of Fighters & Mages Guild: Concept and Discussion.

Supporting the Cause
For their support and effort in the enemies’ faction, players should receive not only personal rewards, but rewards to help them in the faction war and rewards that help their faction's soldiers who are fighting the good fight in Cyrodiil.

Each main and side quest in Silver and Gold should reward players with:

• Experience Points: XP rewards should remain the same
• Gold/Items as applicable: Gold and Item rewards should remain the same
• Alliance Points: A small amount of Alliance Points for the player to spend in Cyrodiil
• AP Faction Buffs: There could be any number of buffs that could help the entire faction here. One idea would be to award a very very small percentage off of the cost of Siege Weapons.
  • Example:Each quest completed gives a 0.01% discount on all Siege Weapons for 30 minutes. The discount is cumulative so that all players completing quests in Silver and Gold are working towards giving their faction Siege Weapon discounts. If 1000 people complete Silver/Gold quests in a faction in a 30 minute period, that would add up to 10% off of the cost of Siege Weapons.
  What are some of your ideas for Faction Buffs?

Note: The Alliance rewards should NOT be earned through he repeatable Guild quests.

Review
These changes would vastly improve Silver and Gold by making them vital to not only player progression, but to the faction war. The un-repeatable nature of the alliance-benefitting quests would encourage players to build and run alternate characters through Silver and Gold. Having separate main-story quests would encourage players to play through each alliance at least once to see the whole story.

These changes would enable Silver and Gold to be seen as part of the ESO narrative, not just something that needs to be grinded through to reach max level.

If VR ranks were changed to 30 regular levels (as outlined in my Level 50-80: VR Replacement New-ish Concept thread) Silver and Gold would feel less like end game content and more like a natural progression of the game itself.

Would changes like these make the game better? Would it make it worse? Do you like Silver and Gold as is? Do you have a different change in mind that you would prefer?

#FreeTamriel

Far Easier solution. Keep it toss out vet ranks and place ambassador ranks. When playing for that faction you are that level with all perks intact. So you are again level 1 with your skills in tact rewards will be gear your char can use at max leve in their homeland (but not while away in another land as an ambassador.) talking purple and orange drops instead of skill point additions.)

Sausage

Wouldnt this kill Cyrodil? People would leave Cyrodil in a blink of an eye and move to Silver/Gold zones.

smokes

whilst i don't have any problem with your idea, i do have a problem with the amount of work required in order to implement such a system, as such it's never gonna happen.

there's far too much story re-telling required. you would literally have to edit every quest in the game into 2 more versions for each other faction.

if ESO was originally designed with the other factions story zones in mind, then yea, it could've played out like this from the beginning.

but as adding cadwells silver and gold was an afterthought, which was implemented on feedback from beta testers, you're much more likely to get damage and health numbers adjusted than you are to ever get storyline re-written from a different perspective.

cadwells S+G sould've been held back at launch. restricted to lvl 50+ and 50++ respectively with no xp or levelling attached and made as purely solo-able content for the additional skyshards, lore and quest rewards. not as VR levelling content which artificially extended the lifetime of the game. but in fact, killed off most of it's subscriber base because it was poorly implemented.

tbh, i still think zenimax would be better off just rolling everybody back to level 50, resetting VR + CP completely and re-launching craglorn as the first VR levelling zone, like how it was originally intended to be. but they missed that boat and waved to it as it passed them by.

there has been a few oppotunities for ZoS to step in and fix things before it was too far gone to turn back, but it seems like they fear something... somebody at zenimax needed to grow a pair, they didn't, the game has since suffered because of it.

Gidorick

Sausage wrote: »

Wouldnt this kill Cyrodil? People would leave Cyrodil in a blink of an eye and move to Silver/Gold zones.

Well... that would solve the lag problem.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Sausage wrote: »

Wouldnt this kill Cyrodil? People would leave Cyrodil in a blink of an eye and move to Silver/Gold zones.

Cyrodil is dead anyway isn't ot?

Last time I was there, albeit for PvE stuff, it took me over 40 minutes before I saw a single other player, and he was same faction as me.

All The Best

Gidorick

Oh it WOULD take a massive amount of work @smokes. While it wouldn't be EVERY quest in the game, there would be a lot that would be replaced. I fully acknowledge that there is NO chance of this happening but as @Gandrhulf_Harbard said, it's a shame to have or efforts invalidated like they are.

I would prefer the outright removal of silver and gold. The rollback to 50 with resets is unlikely to happen. Imagine the hatred ZOS would get from all the long time players.

I think out best bet is that when enough Dlc is released, they may remove silver and gold and just have the DLC be VR leveling.

smokes

Gidorick wrote: »

I would prefer the outright removal of silver and gold. The rollback to 50 with resets is unlikely to happen. Imagine the hatred ZOS would get from all the long time players.

which is why i suggested it on day 2 of early access when the first "grinder" (pretty sure it was actually exploits) hit VR10.

tbh, it's probably better to suffer the rage of the hardcores to salvage the integrity of the game.

edit: it may have actually been within a week or two of launch... either way, i was dissapointed in the lack of preventative action and the way they've just let the game sprial into chaos

The_Sadist

I love the concept, but feel like it won't happen simply due to the sheer amount of time, effort and money that it will take. If they had done this from the get go ESO would have definitely been much better in terms of storyline flow and whatnot. That being said, who knows, we can always hope!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

For me two things are paramount in MMORPG's.

1) Story - above everything else STORY. A great story can carry a mediocre game (LOTRO / Wildstar) but a a game with a poor story falls flat no matter how good the rest of it is (ESO).

2) A well realised game-world. LOTRO has it by the bucket full since the Rohan side of things started to be released; they even went back and revitalised Bree so it felt more like the newer settlements / quest hubs. ESO has it too; the game-world is one of the (if not THE) most beautiful and well put together gameworld I have played through.

I was really looking forward to playing three entirely different stories in ESO; but what I have got instead is the same story with three different chapter orders.

IMO not even close to good enough for what aspires (and claims) to be a AAA game.

All The Best

Rev Rielle

Oh, I don't know. I disagree with you on the story. I think on the whole the story (both the main, and smaller archs) are very good. Of course not everything is going to please everyone, but I thoroughly enjoyed myself experiencing all of the Daggerfall Covenant for the first time. And thus far the other factions too.

It's no David Eddings masterpiece, but on the whole it's very good. And certainly a lot better than some other MMOs.

DirtySmeegs33

ZOS will never put that much work into the system. Shame. They chose the current method because it required the least amount of work and made the users rack up the hours trying to get to end game. Sad truth. I cannot see another reason for this current implementation. Anyone?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Oh, I don't know. I disagree with you on the story. I think on the whole the story (both the main, and smaller archs) are very good.

Yes, the story is good enough, and reasonably well put together.

But it is very one-dimensional. I have 4 toons at close to level cap in SWTOR because each of them has a unique story to play through to get there. And SWTOR has just announced a return to story based questing with Fallen Empire.

No matter what race or class I play levelling through Ebonheart Pact will always be 100% the same.

And to get through the VRs I also need to play through the 1D story for both DC and AD.

Variation of story elements is what build, IMO, replayability.

As it stands ESO has just one, three chapter, story and all that changes is the order in which you read those three chapters.

And, being honest, the story isn't good enough to have me want to level 9 toons to level cap as I have in LOTRO where the story, especially in the Epic Book quest-chains is just brilliantly done. Each class also has two or three minor Class Quests and in Moria a special Quest-Chain.

ESO reminds me of a quote from Johnny Silverhand (an NPC in a table-top RPG called Cyberpunk 2020) "all style, no substance".

The "style" will hook people in, but its the "substance" that will keep them here playing through again and again.

All The Best

Romo

Gidorick wrote: »

...

I would prefer the outright removal of silver and gold. The rollback to 50 with resets is unlikely to happen. Imagine the hatred ZOS would get from all the long time players.

I think out best bet is that when enough Dlc is released, they may remove silver and gold and just have the DLC be VR leveling.

Well, you want to remove content and add content that is acceptable to YOU. Interesting choice.

The only change, if any, to Gold and silver, should be to ensure the XP obtainable will take someone to V14, if the silly VR is left in.

As to the "proposal" to change Gold and silver by you, just no... simply no.

Sure ADD other content elsewhere in the world, so there are alternate routes to V14, so those that dislike G and S can choose another route, but restrict/eliminate or grossly modify G and S.. no... simply no.

Gidorick

Wow @Gandrhulf_Harbard. LOTRO sounds great! Man, imagine if ESO had seperate quests for each race and each class. That would be some good stuff.

Man. ZOS really was depending solely on the Elder Scrolls name to carry this game. What a shame.

Gidorick

Romo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

...

I would prefer the outright removal of silver and gold. The rollback to 50 with resets is unlikely to happen. Imagine the hatred ZOS would get from all the long time players.

I think out best bet is that when enough Dlc is released, they may remove silver and gold and just have the DLC be VR leveling.

Well, you want to remove content and add content that is acceptable to YOU. Interesting choice.

The only change, if any, to Gold and silver, should be to ensure the XP obtainable will take someone to V14, if the silly VR is left in.

As to the "proposal" to change Gold and silver by you, just no... simply no.

Sure ADD other content elsewhere in the world, so there are alternate routes to V14, so those that dislike G and S can choose another route, but restrict/eliminate or grossly modify G and S.. no... simply no.

No CONTENT would be removed. Only the need to replay content.

What content would be removed if this concept were implemented?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Gidorick wrote: »

Wow @Gandrhulf_Harbard. LOTRO sounds great! Man, imagine if ESO had seperate quests for each race and each class. That would be some good stuff.

Man. ZOS really was depending solely on the Elder Scrolls name to carry this game. What a shame.

LOTRO has a limited number of unique quests.

2 or 3 for each class at lower levels to bed you in to your class and some of its special features.

Then at level 45(ish) you get a series of Class Quests that used to reward end-game gear when the cap was 50; but now award skill-points and some mediocre gear.

Then in Moria (48-55) each class has some class quest that used to unlock the "Capstone" skills for the Skill Trees, but now... ...again... ...award skill points.

Each race has a unique set of Deeds to unlock the different racial features: Dwarves kill a certain number of Goblins, Hobbits need to kill a certain number of Spiders etc.

The only reason I am not still playing LOTRO is turbines stupid decision to gate EPic Book Quest content behind "Big Battles" (which are IMO the very worst addition to any MMORPG ever) and that general landscape content is just too easy. On my Loremaster I can set it to "auto-walk" and set his Pet to Aggressive then go make coffee and watch the news for 30 minutes and when I come back I have walked across the zone and levelled up and have not needed to press a single button.

The DEVs promised they were going to relook at PvE landscape difficulty but so far seem to have done absolutely nothing.

I stopped playing LOTRO regularly 8-10 months ago, but even up until 6 weeks my desktop wallpaper was a screenshot of my Loremaster outside his house. It really is my favourite MMORPG of all time.

For uniqueness of storytelling while levelling it is very hard to beat SWTOR - each class has its own set of Class Quests on each Planet, and the stories are unique. So you have 8 unique stories to play through while levelling, 4 classes and 2 factions. It really is an eye-opener and IMO a game-changer for future MMORPGs.

All The Best

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Thanks!

Why? Elaborate man, use your words! Did you read all of it? You posted 1 minute after I posted. I'm not sure you took the time to actually READ the concept before you made a snap judgment.

And... I'm willing to guess you've not read many of my other ideas. Some are pretty far out there.

Same goes on the series people come in and instantly hate on an idea without even explaining why.

I believe this is one of them Gidorick just ignore them.

Gidorick

Heromofo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Thanks!

Why? Elaborate man, use your words! Did you read all of it? You posted 1 minute after I posted. I'm not sure you took the time to actually READ the concept before you made a snap judgment.

And... I'm willing to guess you've not read many of my other ideas. Some are pretty far out there.

Same goes on the series people come in and instantly hate on an idea without even explaining why.

I believe this is one of them Gidorick just ignore them.

Lol. Yea @Heromofo. I figured as much. Hey, check it out! I've moved from "ideas I think ZOS might realistically implement" to "screw it, they probably don't read this stuff anyway, I might as well just go wild with my concepts! "

@Gandrhulf_Harbard has got me thinking about trying LOTRO....

AlnilamE

OK, I will start by saying that I like Cadwell's Silver/Gold. I find experiencing the quests and mobs at vet levels is much more fun than at regular levels. I don't feel that I have to do them to level, I do them when I feel like it, at my own pace. My main character has finished the Silver quests at V5 so she could go to Gold and then just slowly wrapped up the side quests in the Silver zones after she turned V14 (because she was having fun in Craglorn).

I don't like the idea of going to the other faction zones and working against their leaders. The whole concept is that there is a war because Molag Bal is pulling the strings and pitching the factions against each other. Your last quest before going to Coldharbour is to bring the three leaders together so you can all fight the true enemy.

How would it make sense that after that, you go to their zones and work *against* these leaders that you have just united? Particularly since most of the zone quests have you fighting against enemies that are not related to a faction (the Maulborn, the Suprenal Dreamers, the Veiled Heritance)?

That would be extraordinarily weird, IMO.

Gidorick wrote: »

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Caldwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

(Thanks to @Mastodonials for his comments on the thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185610/lazy-endgame-possible-spoilers-freetamriel)

The two parts I bolded are contradictory. As per your example, a player in Stonefalls Silver would be level 16 (highest level mob there is 15 IIRC), but would not get any XP for about half the map because the zone starts at level 4.

In Deshaan, they would be level 23, and the mobs range from 16-22, so again they would not get any XP from mob kills until they are half-way through the zone.

I'm giving EP examples because I'm most familiar with them, but the same is true for the other factions too.

Cry_Wolfe wrote: »

@Gidorick ,

yeah as it stands the only reason for specific faction choice is about grouping choices.

There is no real faction pride when you are forced to play EVERY DAMN quest for all of the factions ... as each specific faction. Once again ZoS management's stingy corporate mentality of valuing accountancy over quality is apparent. Sorry if I am being overly negative, but the more I pay attention the more I see the pattern emerge.

I am happy to spread the love vis-a-vis the community, but as far as ZoS as a company goes, I am tired of being ridden roughshod because the upper tier of ZoS identify more with mobile gaming producers than the likes of which produced this IP.

/pout

How does this affect faction pride more than the fact that we can make alts in any faction? I've played in the Silver/Gold zones, and I am no less an EP player for it. I think that is a silly argument. If anything, what is detrimental to faction pride is being able to make alts in the other alliances. Try taking that away from players, though...

And if "removal of vet levels" involves anything other than rolling everyone back to level 50, I am going to be quite upset at ZOS.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Endurance wrote: »

dumbest idea i've ever seen

Thanks!

Why? Elaborate man, use your words! Did you read all of it? You posted 1 minute after I posted. I'm not sure you took the time to actually READ the concept before you made a snap judgment.

And... I'm willing to guess you've not read many of my other ideas. Some are pretty far out there.

Same goes on the series people come in and instantly hate on an idea without even explaining why.

I believe this is one of them Gidorick just ignore them.

Lol. Yea @Heromofo. I figured as much. Hey, check it out! I've moved from "ideas I think ZOS might realistically implement" to "screw it, they probably don't read this stuff anyway, I might as well just go wild with my concepts! "

@Gandrhulf_Harbard has got me thinking about trying LOTRO....

Yeah i have been looking around as well as i am not sure how long the console version is going to last me.
Then again fallout 4 and starwars battlefront will occupy most of my time so i am not sure atm.

Zenimax has no passion left mm too bad they don't let us in by giving us the tools to create content for them and submit it for testing and implementation if they agree to it.

(Modding community united! )

Skyrim mods keep me going even today lol and some of them are just brillant and can't wait for skywind for morrowind.

Edit: @Gidorick i think your having the same problem as i am the more you write up these ideas and research.
You start to see more and more missing from the game and it starts to tick you off it's why I can't keep doing the series and after 5 i am done. The worse is the small things and simple things and the absolute lack of passion they have.

Lord_Draevan

Once max level is set to 50 when Vet Ranks get removed, you won't need to play through Cadwell's quests (okay you don't NEED to now, but leveling V1-V14 in PvP only/mob grinding is excrutiating), so you can just tell Cadwell to shove his Light of Meridia where the sun don't shine after finishing the Main Quest

Shadesofkin

I've broken down the biggest problems of Silver and Gold on a few threads.

You talk to both Meredia and Cadwell and you hear "there are other things to do out there" but instead of having a few hours of creative writing and some recording sessions they recycle the already put in work.

Silver and Gold aren't a problem, it's the idea that you're reliving the events of your story over again.

It should have been "you should go and solve problems wherever, you are above your factions...a hero of Tamriel" and some good writing, new dialogue and boom....Silver and Gold wouldn't have felt like such a tacked on issue.

King Emric met you at the meeting...why wouldn't he say "Hey, you seem capable, I know it's a lot to ask but perhaps you might help me during this small time of peace between the Alliances"

Queen Elf-ears could have said "I was an adventurer, I know how it can be...I would ask of you a moment of your time"

Some dialogue and some changes to a few quests that pit you against faction enemies (turned into bandits or something else) and there you have it...something that doesn't shove the whole start of the game back down our throats in such an obvious manner.

Gidorick

Thanks for the input @AlnilamE. You've made some good points.

I think the justification for you acting on behalfof your faction is the same justification for Cyrodiil. It's war. Sure we came together to fight or common enemy but we're still fighting for our king/queen. Honestly though, they could have the story day wet help them. The point is, if I'm from Ebonheart Pact in Daggerfall, I shouldn't be paying quests that are FOR the Daggerfall Covenant. It's pointlessly redundant. It should be an "out of faction" quest line.

The contradiction isn't really a contradiction.
The below is the players Silver/Gold level that is being used ONLY to determine how much XP a player gets.

Gidorick wrote: »

If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

And the following is referring to the player's ACTUAL level (and power) being battle scaled so they don't just trounce Mobs in the Silver and gold zones, which would no longer be VR mobs since the player is playing in the regular campaign of that faction.

Gidorick wrote: »

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

So in Deshaan, they would automatically be Leveled to level 23 from the onset. Now let's say the player is Silver/Gold level 17 (lets say normal level 62) when they get to Deshaan. They kill mobs and gain XP at the same rate someone who is level 17 would. That XP number is used to level their Silver/Gold level but then that XP number is adjusted so that it has the same net effect on the players actual level. So let's say you get 120XP as a level 17, the player would have that 120XP increase toward Silver/Gold 18 but would also have their actual level of 62 get 460 XP toward level 63.

Once the player reaches Silver/Gold level 22, they would no longer receive XP for level 16 Mobs.

I appreciate your input @AlnilamE. You said you like silver and gold now. Do you have any thoughts on the fact that you're just playing the same narrative that you would be if you started an alt? You have no problems with that. 'Cause that's my biggest issue.

Lord_Draevan

Last we heard from ZOS about Vet Ranks, they were to be removed in 2015, after the Champion system was introduced.

There were to be 4 phases: 1st was reducing the overall difficulty of Vet Zones, 2nd was making removing Vet Points and making 1 million EXP=1 Vet Rank, 3rd was adding the Champion System, and the 4th and final pjase was removing the Vet Ranks altogether.

Hopefully: this year. I dare to hope...