We need a Veteran Tamriel

Gidorick

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?

I'm not much of a material gatherer... do mats scale to level?

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?

I'm not much of a material gatherer... do mats scale to level?

In "static" zones, mats are static. In battle-levelled zones, mats scale to crafting passives.

TheShadowScout

Personally I'd love a "veteran version" of the "faction homelands" opening up once you complete cadwells, with daily missions all over the place, and done at a level that makes it worth questing in for endgame characters (possibly battle leveling powered, but maybe also just static endgame level - no matter to me, though I guess BL might be better for the upgoming final champion system thing...)

But what I'd want most was to see the regions redone to an "mainstory aftermath" version... with all dolmen silent and broken, all the things that we quested through as they happened "over" and the effects from them under repair... all the mobs that came with the "in progress" quests gone and replaced by something else, possibly in somewhat less mob density... for example, the covenant invasion of bleakrock, bal foyen and stonefalls would be over, all covenant mobs gone (though some replaced by scavengers who grew numerous on the corpses of the ones the placer chareacter slaughtered in defense for the pact... perhaps others turned bandit... that sort of thing), the volcanos kindled by the brothers of strife back to dormant, all damage under repair, "normal life" resuming, et cetera...

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?

I'm not much of a material gatherer... do mats scale to level?

In "static" zones, mats are static. In battle-levelled zones, mats scale to crafting passives.

So... @Enodoc it would work for the Vet Tamriel but if a player goes back to the pre-vet Tamriel the materials would just be the materials in that zone, right?

Gidorick

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I'd love a "veteran version" of the "faction homelands" opening up once you complete cadwells, with daily missions all over the place, and done at a level that makes it worth questing in for endgame characters (possibly battle leveling powered, but maybe also just static endgame level - no matter to me, though I guess BL might be better for the upgoming final champion system thing...)

But what I'd want most was to see the regions redone to an "mainstory aftermath" version... with all dolmen silent and broken, all the things that we quested through as they happened "over" and the effects from them under repair... all the mobs that came with the "in progress" quests gone and replaced by something else, possibly in somewhat less mob density... for example, the covenant invasion of bleakrock, bal foyen and stonefalls would be over, all covenant mobs gone (though some replaced by scavengers who grew numerous on the corpses of the ones the placer chareacter slaughtered in defense for the pact... perhaps others turned bandit... that sort of thing), the volcanos kindled by the brothers of strife back to dormant, all damage under repair, "normal life" resuming, et cetera...

This sounds AMAZING @TheShadowScout ... but man, tons of work.

TheShadowScout

Gidorick wrote: »

This sounds AMAZING ... but man, tons of work.

True, and that is the main problem with it. They would need to redo fifteen regions... not nearly as much work as doing one from scratch, since 60-80% of it could be reused from the original incarnation... but still, a lot of work.

But... it would be sooooo amazing... having a "homelands" for veteran players where the<y can do meaningful daily stuff, dwelve runs, perhaps also some storyline dungeons-ish places "refitted" into daily dungeon run kind of places? I can think of quite a few...

And if they did this, then they could take it to the next step.

PvP incursions.

Right now you can visit the cadwells version of the other alliance lands... mainstroy-uplevel wise. If there was a veteran version of each homeland... there could be a special "infiltration base" for other alliances; possibly not one per region, but one per faction - like, say, the veteran AD lands have one DC infiltration base in Malabel Tor, and one EP infiltration base from Grahtwood; while the veteran DC lands have one AD infiltration from Alik'r and one EP infiltration from Rivenspire; while veteran EP gets DC in, say, Eastmarch and ad from (duh) Shadowfen...
Those infiltrating players would be PvP enabled AND also kill-on-sight for all justice guards (yes, those invincible dudes, which they would HAVE to avoid then), and have daily "spycraft" missions - pass instructions to some traitor, steal information, sabotage something, assassinate someone, etc. While dodging the guards AND being hunted by the "homeland" players, who follow a daily "spycatcher" mission...
This would bring world PvP to ESO, in a way, but only in those veteran regions, and with a large advantage for the defender (well, home field and all that) - requiring the agressor to be very careful and sneaky (spy stuff, get it? ) and thus likely within limits... and most importantly, only for endgame players, people busy levelling would not have to worry about dodging PKers all the time...
And with the infiltration bases being in one spot, the danger would ne centered in those two regions, leaving the others free. In fact, some regions would even be unreachable for enemy players (like the starter islands, or auridion... alik'r and bangkorai connection would be iffy as well I presume... though I would love it if they refitted that, maybe play a bit with craglorn gates as additional entry point? Same for the wrothgar gates, and any "all come" DLC they might be adding in the future...)

Which of course would be even more work... but... it is an interesting idea, or at least I happen to think so...

Etchos

The idea of scaling Cadwells seems ok on the surface but when you actually think it through I'm not sure it actually computes. Dont get me wrong i like the idea but as soon as my alts hit level 50 they will be "level 50 Cp160". What about a new player who is playing through the first time and hits level "50 Cp0".

Also combining all 3 alliances into a collected PVE. I played AD so EP was my Silver and DC was my Gold. If you work through the combinations of the that you get situation where someones silver is someones gold and from a scaling point of view it becomes a nightmare.

New player looking for 50cp10 content. regs looking for cp160 content.

The whole argument for this suggestion seems to assume that the only new levelling characters are alts of existing players who already have the cp to deal with the scaled content and taking away the content which is there as a bridge for players who are new and have zero cp.

Unless im missing something?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

You need a level nerf, more, it seems.
Make players drop level so they fit in into the level of where they are.

Rune_Relic

1. Yes. Silver & gold is uplevelled versions of downlevelled zones anyway (default checkbox).
2. No. Even for veterans the war still exists to take the ruby throne regardless of Molag Bal. ie. All factions remain enemies at war. Remove the war and you remove the very foundation of the game concept.
3. Yes. We start in dowlevelled zone so autoscaling should handle this (option checkbox)

Group scaling vs leveling and levelled shards.
We would still get the problem of OP Vet going to starter zones to do content and get achievements..one shotting evrything.
So I dont see how you can alleviate that problem without actually using a shard switch and isolating starter from OP veteran.
ie starter version zones 1-5 and veteran version zones 1-5

Default shard for non-vet = 1-50 levelling alliance zones 1-5 (training version)
Default shard for non-vet = 50+ up scaled neutral zones

Default shard for vet = 50+ CS alliance zones 1-15 (bronze/silver/gold versions..equally difficult)
Default shard for vet = 50+ up scaled neutral zones
Option shard for vet = 1-50 down scaled levelling alliance zone 1-5 (scaled to area NPC level rather than group leader)
Group Dungeons already scale to group leader.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?

I'm not much of a material gatherer... do mats scale to level?

In "static" zones, mats are static. In battle-levelled zones, mats scale to crafting passives.

So... Enodoc it would work for the Vet Tamriel but if a player goes back to the pre-vet Tamriel the materials would just be the materials in that zone, right?

Yeah something like that. If the zone is Glenumbra, where the content is Lvl 5-15, then the mats are Lvl 5-15. If the zone is Wrothgar, where the content is Battle Level VR16, then the mats would depend on your crafting passives. If the zone is your 50+ Veteran Glenumbra, then using battle levelled mats would make more sense.

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

How would they handle the increase ways to farm materials?

I'm not much of a material gatherer... do mats scale to level?

In "static" zones, mats are static. In battle-levelled zones, mats scale to crafting passives.

So... Enodoc it would work for the Vet Tamriel but if a player goes back to the pre-vet Tamriel the materials would just be the materials in that zone, right?

Yeah something like that. If the zone is Glenumbra, where the content is Lvl 5-15, then the mats are Lvl 5-15. If the zone is Wrothgar, where the content is Battle Level VR16, then the mats would depend on your crafting passives. If the zone is your 50+ Veteran Glenumbra, then using battle levelled mats would make more sense.

I think that seems really reasonable @Enodoc. Vet-Tamriel mats level to the player, Pre-Vet-Tamriel mats do not.

This way, players can choose what they want to be able to gather.

magnusthorek

Volkodav

I wonder if it would be as empty as the Cadwell zones already are? Would the new land for "vets" be more populated? Cos the areas are now a lot like ghost zones,pretty much.

Gidorick

Volkodav wrote: »

I wonder if it would be as empty as the Cadwell zones already are? Would the new land for "vets" be more populated? Cos the areas are now a lot like ghost zones,pretty much.

Not AS empty as they are now @Volkodav. Instead of playing with people from your faction, you'd be playing with people from your faction and two other. Most other players would be from only one other faction since most players playing through the zones from 1-50 would be in their own zone.

I had another concept (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) that suggested:

Gidorick wrote: »

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Cadwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

I personally prefer this concept over the straight up veteran version of Tamriel... just two different thoughts on how to "fix" end game.

CokeVoAYCE

yes we need cross faction gameplay

dodgehopper_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

With the recent announcement of the changes coming to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold (pretty much they are going to be leveled to 50) there is an opportunity with Tamriel. I am hoping ZOS will implement the following changes to open up end-game PVE for all players:

1. Implement Veteran Alliance Zones: Once a player gains access to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold their home alliance should ALSO be scaled up. Functionally, players should gain access to a NEW version of their home alliance zones. These zones should be scaled to level 50 and should be separated from the 1-50 pre-end-game players. However, all the player’s achievements and progressions should carry over. This would allow players to play through older quests and clear out zones they haven’t completely finished without compromising their CP gains.
2. Bring EVERYONE together: Once a player reaches end game ALL veteran players should be playing in the game zones. The fact that all zones would be leveled to level 50 would mean there would be no leveling issues.
3. Master Leveling: Players should then also have the opportunity to join and level to other players in the older, lower level zones, irrespective of their level. Master Leveling should be a toggle all players have access to similar to Battle Leveling. Instead of leveling a player to the zone, Master Leveling levels a player to the leader of their group. This can be utilized by all players at any time and can level the player up or down. Any player who wishes to group across the Veteran threshold of level 50 should be required to have Master Leveling activated. Once they group, they should then only be allowed to "travel to leader". Players who has Master Leveling enabled should no be able to traveled to. Once the player leaves the group, they are returned to their home instance of the zone they are in via wayshrine travel.

If these three things were added to ESO, we would see level 1-50 players play in their own zones separate from veteran players and the veterans would play in a completely shared Tamriel with the option to join and scale to their non-vet friends if they so desired.

Thoughts?

As usual, cool idea @Gidorick . I don't think I've ever mentioned an idea like this but I have always wished I could at the least get specced down to the zone level, if only for teaming with new players or friends on a new alt. I shouldn't have to make a brand new character to team up with someone. At he same token, most of us chose to play in AD to play in AD, but ironically we end up in Daggerfall. If we chose to be Daggerfall we end up in the land of creepy elves. I guess ultimately ZoS views it as an exploration of the whole of Tamriel though, as they keep revealing new areas of the map. Its been heavy on daggerfall (Craglorn, Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, Golden Coast), but I suspect we're moving to Ebonheart next with Clockwork city, Murkmire, Mephala's realm, etc.

Volkodav

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I wonder if it would be as empty as the Cadwell zones already are? Would the new land for "vets" be more populated? Cos the areas are now a lot like ghost zones,pretty much.

Not AS empty as they are now @Volkodav. Instead of playing with people from your faction, you'd be playing with people from your faction and two other. Most other players would be from only one other faction since most players playing through the zones from 1-50 would be in their own zone.

I had another concept (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) that suggested:

Gidorick wrote: »

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Cadwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

I personally prefer this concept over the straight up veteran version of Tamriel... just two different thoughts on how to "fix" end game.

Yes! The "On the Level… With Your Friends" thread is right on.I would love to play that way.I get tired of traveling the vast emptiness of the Vet zones.
You have it well thought out and it would be great if the devs read it and were inspired by it.

Gidorick

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I wonder if it would be as empty as the Cadwell zones already are? Would the new land for "vets" be more populated? Cos the areas are now a lot like ghost zones,pretty much.

Not AS empty as they are now @Volkodav. Instead of playing with people from your faction, you'd be playing with people from your faction and two other. Most other players would be from only one other faction since most players playing through the zones from 1-50 would be in their own zone.

I had another concept (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) that suggested:

Gidorick wrote: »

On the Level… With Your Friends
In this new end-game, players are not moved to a new VR instance of the zones, they are playing alongside of all the other players who are experiencing levels 1-50 of that faction.

In these zones, there are two interdependent sets of leveling that occurs: The player’s Silver or Gold level and their regular level (I will be using my concept of changing Vet Ranks to regular levels for demonstration purposes, original thread HERE)

The Silver & Gold levels are used to help determine the XP that is awarded to the player, nothing more. Regular out-leveling rules apply. If a player’s Silver Level is more than 5 levels above a mob level, a player will not receive any XP for that kill UNLESS they are toggled for Battle Leveling as outlined in this thread HERE.

If a Level 53/Silver Level 9 player kills a mob that would reward a level 9 player with 110 XP they would receive 216 XP.

This number is achieved by using the total amount of XP required to achieve level 50 (2296964) to calculate the percentage that the 110 XP awards the player (0.0048%) and applies that percentage to 4.5 million. This evens out the experience for the player and would have the player reach level 61 by the end of Silver, 72 by the end of Gold, leaving levels 73-80 for Craglorn and other leveling.

A player’s power during Silver and Gold should be determined by their Scaled down level which would be 1 level above the level of the highest mob in the zone. Once a player’s Silver Level and Gold Level out-levels the Mobs of the zone, their level should follow the Scaled leveling practices mentioned above.

Once a player achieves Silver or Gold Level 50, players will no longer receive scaled XP for those zones. They can, if they desire, institute battle leveling and receive level appropriate XP. This would mean that after a player finished Cadwell’s Gold the ONLY viable leveling Zones would be Craglorn, Cyodiil, and whatever DLC is released.

I personally prefer this concept over the straight up veteran version of Tamriel... just two different thoughts on how to "fix" end game.

Yes! The "On the Level… With Your Friends" thread is right on.I would love to play that way.I get tired of traveling the vast emptiness of the Vet zones.
You have it well thought out and it would be great if the devs read it and were inspired by it.

Thanks @Volkodav ... At one point, with the leveling and Caldwell's, I started just hoping ZOS would do something, anything to make the experience better. Maybe I should revisit the concept and remove the idea of "zone levels" since that was an idea from before Champion Points.

But... I still think it's a sound idea. Imagine if every zone that is released is released with 5 zone levels that players could play through. They would still get XP and CP but they would also have 5 Zone levels to push through. Zone levels wouldn't add anything to the progression of the character and would be largely arbitrary and could perhaps lead to an achievement but man... people would love it. It would give everyone a sense of accomplishment.