Add the option to scale characters DOWN to older zones, please. :D

Gidorick

Hey @ZOS. Could you please give us the option to scale our characters DOWN to the zone? If my character is above the highest acceptable level for the zone, scale the character down so they are viable in that zone.

So, let's take the Daggerfall Covenant zones:

Since the point at which players "outlevel" mobs is 5 levels, players should be scaled down to one level above the highest level for the zone, so that would be:

Betnikh: 6
Glenumbra: 16
Stormhaven: 24
Ravenspire: 31
Alik'r Desert: 38
Bangkorai: 44

If a character is above those levels, the character should get scaled down to the highest level for the zone +1. They should also receive XP that is appropriate for that level. If a Vet 4 Daggerfall Covenant player visits Stormhaven, they should be scaled to level 24. It takes 31,000 XP to attain level 25. If a player who is actually level 24 receives 155 XP (0.5%) for killing a mob, the Vet 4 should receive the same 155XP (0.0155% of 1 million). Scaled dungeons should continue to work as they currently are.

This way, the VR4 player CAN just grind 6,512 mobs in Stormhaven if they really WANT to do that but it would be more beneficial to them to move on to a higher level zone.

This scaling should be associated with the Battle Level toggle so players could be allowed to turn battle level off and they will not be scaled, and will not receive XP for killing mobs too far beneath their level, just like it is now. This would make this whole mechanic an optional feature of ESO so players can play the game in the way THEY want to play it.

Additionally, if the Battle Level is toggled off, Mobs that are more than 10 levels below a character's level should just completely ignore the player unless the player agros them. (Idea is courtesy of @Psychobunni!)

So a player could visit a zone and explore without needing to fight off mobs or they could go through and lay waste as an overpowered beast of a warrior, or they could go in and be given a little bit of a challenge but would still feel powerful.

This scaling would keep older zones more viable for continuous play. Players can grind mobs and gain experience wherever they see fit.

Thoughts? What are the reasons this would be a bad thing?

MissBizz

Gidorick, I thought at the (before console) reddit Aua they stated all future DLC would be scaled.I over level everything, but I like the idea of some zones have specific levels, especially if everything they release from now on scales. Sometimes, I just wanna feel like a god ya know?

I might have jumped the gun on this.. I didn't quite read the battle level part. Since it is tied to gaining more XP, I just.. I dunno. I want to say your forcing people to turn it on for the zp.. BUT.. Its totally "higher risk higher reward" which is a good thing.. But.. I don't know. You have my feelings all confused..

lsneakl

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Gidorick

MissBizz wrote: »

Gidorick, I thought at the (before console) reddit Aua they stated all future DLC would be scaled.I over level everything, but I like the idea of some zones have specific levels, especially if everything they release from now on scales. Sometimes, I just wanna feel like a god ya know?

Oh, I totally get that, that is why I suggest that the scaling be tied with battle leveling. Let us turn it on and off. If I'm riding through a zone and don't want to be bothered, turn battle leveling off and then I can just run through the zone like a friggin' tornado! lol.

Of course, I wouldn't get any XP for that... but sometimes it's the thud of the hammer and yawning of flesh that is all the reward one needs.

Gidorick

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

ahh.. ok. so that's the issue is they don't want players to just grind to get levels.

Just out of curiosity. Why not? What's the big deal if I want to go from level 1-50 killing werewolves in Glenumbra. That should be a viable way to play. If that's how I want to play.

MissBizz

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Solid point. The XP increase would have to be.. You kill an "easy mob".. So you get the same as you would for killing an " easy mob" in Crag.. Not tied to % of level.

[Edit] I need to go to bed. Forums on my phone is just bad practice.. With bad spelling and bad grammar..

Gidorick

MissBizz wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Solid point. The XP increase would have to be.. You kill an "easy mob".. So you get the same as you would for killing an " easy mob" in Crag.. Not tied to % of level.

[Edit] I need to go to bed. Forums on my phone is just bad practice.. With bad spelling and bad grammar..

lol. night!... I'm curious though. With people complaining about how many XP it takes for VR ranks... why not make the XP gain better?

lsneakl

MissBizz wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Solid point. The XP increase would have to be.. You kill an "easy mob".. So you get the same as you would for killing an " easy mob" in Crag.. Not tied to % of level.

[Edit] I need to go to bed. Forums on my phone is just bad practice.. With bad spelling and bad grammar..

Open to level downgrades but not upgrades as you should be forced to play through the game not just skip to level 50. As far as making it like low level in Crag I can't say I would leave that to others. I feel xp should stay unchanged as again the level 1-10 or 10-20 area will be packed with grinders as it's likely way easier to grind there than crag...? Again could be wrong. More open to the thought of post level 50 locations scaling though.

Blutengel

No thank you.

MissBizz

Gidorick wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Solid point. The XP increase would have to be.. You kill an "easy mob".. So you get the same as you would for killing an " easy mob" in Crag.. Not tied to % of level.

[Edit] I need to go to bed. Forums on my phone is just bad practice.. With bad spelling and bad grammar..

lol. night!... I'm curious though. With people complaining about how many XP it takes for VR ranks... why not make the XP gain better?

You tricked me into staying. Haha

Anyways. Like I said, on phone and tired, but go read through that console reddit AuA that happened today. I'm positive they mentioned they were going to buff XP in certain areas such as public dungeons, ALSO they were going to buff XP in Crag... In the next major update. I swear I didn't dream it, but linking it on my phone is a pain. So I'll leave you to find it.. Hehe

RazzPitazz

Gidorick wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

ahh.. ok. so that's the issue is they don't want players to just grind to get levels.

Just out of curiosity. Why not? What's the big deal if I want to go from level 1-50 killing werewolves in Glenumbra. That should be a viable way to play. If that's how I want to play.

Because then cadwells would become the alternative rather than the main way to grind lower vet levels.

Gidorick

lsneakl wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

Solid point. The XP increase would have to be.. You kill an "easy mob".. So you get the same as you would for killing an " easy mob" in Crag.. Not tied to % of level.

[Edit] I need to go to bed. Forums on my phone is just bad practice.. With bad spelling and bad grammar..

Open to level downgrades but not upgrades as you should be forced to play through the game not just skip to level 50. As far as making it like low level in Crag I can't say I would leave that to others. I feel xp should stay unchanged as again the level 1-10 or 10-20 area will be packed with grinders as it's likely way easier to grind there than crag...? Again could be wrong. More open to the thought of post level 50 locations scaling though.

So, using my example: If a Vet 4 Daggerfall Covenant player visits Stormhaven, they should be scaled to level 28. It takes 41,480 XP to attain level 29. If a player who is actually level 28 receives 207 XP (0.5%) for killing a mob, the Vet 4 should receive the same 207XP (0.0207% of 1 million). Scaled dungeons should continue to work as they currently are.

Is that more like you're thinking @lsneakl ?

And, ZOS has already stated that they will be scaling players UP to DLC... haven't they?

Gidorick

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

The point is you out leveled the area already, otherwise you could just farm level 1 and be vet 15 in like 3 days with your model of percentage xp increase

ahh.. ok. so that's the issue is they don't want players to just grind to get levels.

Just out of curiosity. Why not? What's the big deal if I want to go from level 1-50 killing werewolves in Glenumbra. That should be a viable way to play. If that's how I want to play.

Because then cadwells would become the alternative rather than the main way to grind lower vet levels.

And that's a bad thing?

eric22santiago_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....


Just out of curiosity. Why not? What's the big deal if I want to go from level 1-50 killing werewolves in Glenumbra. That should be a viable way to play. If that's how I want to play.

Why not? Because you lose the sense of progression. When you out level an area you are forced to move on to newer zones so you can start gaining more levels. Eventually a place that you could not defeat becomes a place you can wipe the floor with which gives you a great sense of growing or accomplishment, a great sense of progressing forward. Plus, why have the artists created all those great zones for people if you could just sit in the first zone and level to max.

mdhammond

Bad idea

mdhammond

What is the point in leveling if you can go anywhere right off the bat, would be terrible

Gidorick

mdhammond wrote: »

What is the point in leveling if you can go anywhere right off the bat, would be terrible

Well, ZOS has stated that they are going to allow players of any level to visit and play DLC right off the bat. So, it's going to happen... just not with all the zones.

But, specifically to your concens @mdhammond. You don't care for the scaling up, but what about the scaling back?

Gidorick

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

No just no.....

Just out of curiosity. Why not? What's the big deal if I want to go from level 1-50 killing werewolves in Glenumbra. That should be a viable way to play. If that's how I want to play.

Why not? Because you lose the sense of progression. When you out level an area you are forced to move on to newer zones so you can start gaining more levels. Eventually a place that you could not defeat becomes a place you can wipe the floor with which gives you a great sense of growing or accomplishment, a great sense of progressing forward. Plus, why have the artists created all those great zones for people if you could just sit in the first zone and level to max.

Shouldn't that be the player's prerogative? What if it worked in the following way instead:

If a Vet 4 Daggerfall Covenant player visits Stormhaven, they should be scaled to level 28. It takes 41,480 XP to attain level 29. If a player who is actually level 28 receives 207 XP (0.5%) for killing a mob, the Vet 4 should receive the same 207XP (0.0207% of 1 million). Scaled dungeons should continue to work as they currently are.

This way the VR4 player CAN just grind 4,831 mobs in Stormhaven if they really WANT to do that but it would be more beneficial to them to move on to a higher level zone.

That would address my disliking outleveling a zone and your disliking of the idea of devaluing progression.

Gidorick

Ok... tweaked the original idea in response to feedback.

Psychobunni

I'd like them not to do this and take it one step further and make mobs 5 levels (or even 10 since ESO so easy to outlevel) under me, ignore me unless I aggro them.

I want to explore the beautiful world they created un-pestered by useless mobs, or stop and smell the roses in a land I've cleared without worrying if I walk away...will I come back dead? Give me the freedom to explore!!! It's not even a new concept, lots of other games do it.

Zazaaji

Still no. You loose all sense of progression leveling up if you're level 50 and struggling to kill some enemies in a level 4 area. It ruined Guild Wars 2, I do not want it to ruin this game either.

No level scaling in any direction for PvE things, please.
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Gidorick

I removed the scaling up @mdhammond & @lsneakl . You are right, allowing players to just go to any zone form the get to would be a bad idea. Some semblance of progression must be maintained. Thanks for your input!

I tweaked the concept @eric22santiago_ESO, @rajaniemiorama_ESO.

I really appreciate the feedback on the concept guys!

Gidorick

Zazaaji wrote: »

Still no. You loose all sense of progression leveling up if you're level 50 and struggling to kill 5 enemies in a level 4 area. It ruined Guild Wars 2, I do not want it to ruin this game either.

No level scaling in any direction for PvE things, please.

It IS going to happen with DLC, isn't it? I'm pretty sure ZOS has already announced this.

Gidorick

Psychobunni wrote: »

I'd like them not to do this and take it one step further and make mobs 5 levels (or even 10 since ESO so easy to outlevel) under me, ignore me unless I aggro them.

I want to explore the beautiful world they created un-pestered by useless mobs, or stop and smell the roses in a land I've cleared without worrying if I walk away...will I come back dead? Give me the freedom to explore!!! It's not even a new concept, lots of other games do it.

I love that idea @Psychobunni! but only if Battle Leveling is turned off I would think.

Zazaaji

Gidorick wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

Still no. You loose all sense of progression leveling up if you're level 50 and struggling to kill 5 enemies in a level 4 area. It ruined Guild Wars 2, I do not want it to ruin this game either.

No level scaling in any direction for PvE things, please.

It IS going to happen with DLC, isn't it? I'm pretty sure ZOS has already announced this.

I'm not sure, but at least those will only be optional zones.
Applying this theory to every zone ala Guild Wars 2 would be horrific in my opinion. At level 80, I still had trouble killing a named level 9 Named NPC in a quest I missed on my first play of that zone. It ruined the progression and leveling feel completely for that to occur.

I really do not want that happening to ESO for standard PvE zones. DLC zones are fine, since those are optional.
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FancyTuna8

No, please.

Faulgor

Frankly, I'd rather see them redesign the zones in the fashion of the upcoming DLCs, so every zone is max level and our characters are scaled up.

Might as well do away with levels alltogether at that point, but it would feel more organic.

Gidorick

Why not @FancyTuna8... elaborate!

And that is why I suggested this feature be attached to the Battle Level toggle @Zazaaji.

• Battle level OFF, zones work exactly like they work now.
• Battle level ON, character scales to zone per the above parameters.

Gidorick

Faulgor wrote: »

Frankly, I'd rather see them redesign the zones in the fashion of the upcoming DLCs, so every zone is max level and our characters are scaled up.

Might as well do away with levels alltogether at that point, but it would feel more organic.

Pretty much @Faulgor... which is kind of weird for an Elder Scrolls game.

Darkeus

after lvl 50 i think all map should be scaled to your lvl and that would be great, i could hunt/farm in whatever zone i like and not forced like now.

Zazaaji

Gidorick wrote: »

Why not @FancyTuna8... elaborate!

And that is why I suggested this feature be attached to the Battle Level toggle @Zazaaji.

• Battle level OFF, zones work exactly like they work now.
• Battle level ON, character scales to zone per the above parameters.

Oh, there have been so many very long posts in this thread that I missed that.
Honestly, I don't see any problems in that case. It'd give players wanting a constant same level experience a good time, and let people like me actually feel substantial level ups.

Sure, as long as they make it toggleable/optional with that option, I'd welcome it.
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