Level 50-80: VR 1-16 Replacement. A New-ish Concept

Gidorick

This is a similar, but different concept for Veteran Rank replacement. While I am still suggesting VR be replaced with straight levels there are enough differences for me to just make a new thread. This thread does not suggest that we continue progression past level cap… I’ve separated that into another thread.

TL/DR
ZOS should convert Veteran Ranks to 30 levels, distributing the skill points of the 16 Vet Ranks accordingly.

Topics:

• Immediately raise the level cap to 80
• Convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level
• Skill, Attribute, and Champion Points
• Current VR Rank Conversion

Immediately raise the level cap to 80
Soon, each VR Rank takes 850K XP to achieve. This is a daunting a task for many players, especially considering that the average XP requirement per level 41-50 is about 111,000 XP. Taking the average multiplier between levels 10-50 we can see a progression that is much more gradual and in line with the average increase in the XP required for each level prior to level 50.

In this post 50 Level system proposition, the first level in which players are required to achieve more than 1 million XP would be level 80, the suggested CAP. Level 80 would require 1,020,034 XP to reach.

The TOTAL number of XP required to level from VR1 to VR16 is 12,750,000. This proposed change would increase the total number of XP required to be about 13,800,000. Many VR 14 players would automatically achieve level 80 and would be at max level.

Convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level
This new system would facilitate the conversion of current VR Gear and Recipes to Level gear and recipes.

Old Chart

If it’s decided to increase the levels beyond 80 ZOS could use the established gear interval to have gear released for every 2 levels instead of every single level. More on that in the thread Ongoing Level Progression Concept (not yet posted)

Skill, Attribute, and Champion Points
Post 50 progression incentives should be a little more separated than pre 50 progression. Skill points (SP), Attribute Points (AP), Champion Points (CP), and Gear Requirements (GR) shouldn’t be awarded for every level. These points can be distributed at a wider interval than 1-49 leveling.

Below is a chart of when players would be awarded the different progression incentives. It should be noted that this progression would not add any additional Skill Points or Attribute points to the current Veteran Rank system, they will just be awarded at different XP intervals.

Old Chart

It's interesting to note that adding 2 VR levels would actually make the conversion to levels 50-80 a more direct conversion.

• Skill Points: Skill points should be awarded every other level. This will result in the same 16 skill points that are awarded during VR leveling.
• Attributes: Attribute points should continue to be awarded every other level.
• Champion Points: Champion points should remain to be a tangential progression and will provide players with a much more specialized character. Players should earn additional CP by leveling. Players should receive 1 CP every other level. This would be in addition to their normal CP gain.
  
  This can be accomplished by granting a player 400K non-enlightened XP to the Champion Progression. If a player has 125K XP toward a Warrior CP, they will be awarded the Warrior CP and will then have 125K toward their next Thief CP. Their CP level would increase accordingly.

Current VR Rank Conversion
Many players who have characters past level 49 maxed would need to adjust their attribute points upon to conversion of VR Ranks to Level conversion. The following would have to occur:

Characters above level 49 would:

• Have their VR Rank converted to levels dependent on the total number of XP they have earned.
  
• Gain additional CP levels in accordance with their new level.

These changes would bring a player who previously gained VR 16 in line with a player who climbs to level 80. A player who has 8 VR 16 characters would automatically gain an additional 128 Champion levels. Some may view this as being too much but a player who takes 8 characters to level 80 would receive a total of around 380 Champion Points (assuming a player gets about 2 CP per 850 thousand XP).

Overview
Using this concept, players who are leveling past level 49 will experience a more rewarding leveling experience and not feel the daunting pressure that is currently felt with the Veteran Ranks. This will help make progression more interesting and more rewarding. This post-level 50 progression should be accompanied by additional skills and DLC for players to consume, but that is for another post.


Thoughts?

Gidorick

My initial thought was to have SP, AP, and CP all be awarded every single level... but then those posts from previous threads called out to me about power creep and player ability gap. I DID have each VR14 character being given a total of 30 CP 16 more Skill Points and 16 more Attribute points. While I personally don't see an issue with it, spreading the points out will serve as a means of power creep mitigation.

Fair compromise I think.

NewBlacksmurf

My comment is as usual. Keep it simple

Raising the level cap is the problem. Getting back to square one which is level 50.
When major expansions hit you can add 5 or 10 levels as content allows.

My two cents

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

My comment is as usual. Keep it simple

Raising the level cap is the problem. Getting back to square one which is level 50.
When major expansions hit you can add 5 or 10 levels as content allows.

My two cents

With the different ways they have available to them to remove vet levels one thing becomes abundantly clear. Vet levels sure have left a mess.

wraith808

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

My comment is as usual. Keep it simple

Raising the level cap is the problem. Getting back to square one which is level 50.
When major expansions hit you can add 5 or 10 levels as content allows.

My two cents

Why would you just go back to 50 though? There are a lot of things that break at that point, or that you need to take into account, which is what this post is talking about.

I like the idea- but I think with what we've been given, and how the more time spent on this conversion equates to less time spent giving us something to do with those levels.

I don't think that what you call it is the problem- it's just in their initial design. And it can be changed in a much simpler fashion.

1. Reduce the number of XP required for each level. No matter what you call them, the fact that they are taking even at this point 1 million XP is way too large a scale from the 1-50. Just reduce them to be in line with the XP required per level up to 50, making that scale linear rather than some god awful aberration as it is now. They can be 51-64 or VR1-14 if you want to keep a separation in the types of levels, but without a reduction in the XP taken, so I like your sliding scale, and do think that's what they should do, but I don't think they should change the numbers in regards to levels or whatever you call it. That would require changes to itemization, and we've gone through exercises like that with them before, and it's always taken a while to iron out. By leaving the levels the same, itemization won't be a problem.
2. Increase PvP XP to be in line with XP gains outside of Cyrodiil. At this point, PvP is a painful way of progression, but where players might be willing to go through 1-50 outside of Cyrodiil in PvE, that doesn't carry over to other forced progression through the other alliances.
3. Quit trying to nerf grinding or ways to get XP. I think because of their original statements that it will take a while to go through all of the content and being proven wrong, they want to enforce a certain time to reach max level. That's alienating a large part of the player base. Most people that are grinding to the end in any case are doing it for alts. They've already gone through the content. Why force them to do it again if they don't want to?
4. Unlock all of the content at VR1- Cadwells Gold and Silver, all trials, Craglorn, etc. Let the difficulty of the area be the limiting factor, rather than some arbitrary limit. Another sticking point is that people can't group with friends... especially those that are behind them even if still in the same VR levels. If I'm VR10 and never completed Cadwells, why should I be excluded from Gold to get the sky shards or just adventure as I will? It's an arbitrary limit that they're holding on to, and should go.

You've put a lot of work into those changes and considering them- but they'd have to tweak the design, apply it to systems, and do the actual coding, testing, and then subsequent fixes. If we keep the required changes as simple as possible, we can cut down on the time to actually do it. They've spent all last year on overhauls and redesigns of systems that has taken away from getting anything actually new. I don't want to go through another year of that.

mojoe

My thoughts are that thats a lot of detail. I do find VR a little silly, why not make it 50-80 like you said, but as a system I find no issues. I'm not in favour of the sub skill points, becomes more complicated for almost similar results end game.

I think the main issue is that VR1-14 is just a grind. Quests do not give enough to get 1 VR (1mil exp) in a zone, so people are forced to grind. And no one wants to have to go thought leveling zones again 2 more times, even if it is just questing somewhere new. They need to either lower the required exp total, or greatly increase exp gains from quests/completing areas/points of interests/PVP/dungeons instead of reducing exp grinding areas. Then there may be several decent ways to level. This is the main issue, not that veteran ranks exist or not.

Gidorick

mojoe wrote: »

My thoughts are that thats a lot of detail. I do find VR a little silly, why not make it 50-80 like you said, but as a system I find no issues. I'm not in favour of the sub skill points, becomes more complicated for almost similar results end game.

I think the main issue is that VR1-14 is just a grind. Quests do not give enough to get 1 VR (1mil exp) in a zone, so people are forced to grind. And no one wants to have to go thought leveling zones again 2 more times, even if it is just questing somewhere new. They need to either lower the required exp total, or greatly increase exp gains from quests/completing areas/points of interests/PVP/dungeons instead of reducing exp grinding areas. Then there may be several decent ways to level. This is the main issue, not that veteran ranks exist or not.

You know, the sub-attributes was devised because I initially suggested that we receive an additional 16 attribute points and 16 skill points, one for each level. The sub-attributes were to combat power creep. I still think they could be an effective form of power mitigation but I think their real benefit would be more apparent in the unposted sister topic of this thread: Regular Level Cap Increase with Perpetual Leveling: Concept.

For the most part I tried to simply take what we have now and redistribute it so that it wouldn't require a retooling of silver and gold. If ZOS is willing to do that, that would be great! But I think they've said they aren't looking to do that at any point in the near future.

Sha_dow

IMHO

Umm no, Just no

The problem that most mmo's as they raise the LEVEL cap to fast , How old is ESO and you want to make us level 80 ?

Max we should be is 55 (Convert the VR 14 ranks to max level 55)

What we need

1: Content

2: New crafting (Jewellery, New Pots, )

3: New skills / Slots
* 2 new skills 1: level 53 1 Level 55
* (Level 55 opens a 6th Slot to use skills etc)

4: Achievements or some sort of Nexus / Random True world bosses for loot/Achievements

5: LEVELING Combat PETS !!!! * Fire /Frost/Lighting Pets, Wolves/Panthers/Hawks etc

ESO is an amazing game but if we get increased levels so early on its not going to last long, I left LOTRO for the same reason once it went f2p it was all levels, levels, levels (Which was a pity as the best class EVER came in at the end)

Gidorick

Sha_dow wrote: »

IMHO

Umm no, Just no

The problem that most mmo's as they raise the LEVEL cap to fast , How old is ESO and you want to make us level 80 ?

Max we should be is 55 (Convert the VR 14 ranks to max level 55)

What we need

1: Content

2: New crafting (Jewellery, New Pots, )

3: New skills / Slots
* 2 new skills 1: level 53 1 Level 55
* (Level 55 opens a 6th Slot to use skills etc)

4: Achievements or some sort of Nexus / Random True world bosses for loot/Achievements

5: LEVELING Combat PETS !!!! * Fire /Frost/Lighting Pets, Wolves/Panthers/Hawks etc

ESO is an amazing game but if we get increased levels so early on its not going to last long, I left LOTRO for the same reason once it went f2p it was all levels, levels, levels (Which was a pity as the best class EVER came in at the end)

I'm not suggesting we raise anything in this concept. I'm suggesting we convert the leveling that already exists into levels. If you take the rate of XP requirement increase that has been established from level 10-50 and apply that to VR ranks, we get about level 80.

There are also the 14 attribute points and 14 skill points to consider. In a previous concept I suggested that we change the VR Ranks to straight up levels (2 per VR Rank) and that we distribute the XP between those levels so that players have to earn the least amount of XP for level 51 and the most for level 76. I changed 76 to 80 for this concept to allow for a more gradual progression. In order to give players all the skill and attribute points in 5 levels players would have to be just given like 3 per level. (initially, I was going to suggest that we be given an additional 16 attribute and skill points but realized that wouldn't be good for anyone.)

If ZOS wants to decrease the amount of levels it takes to get all 14 skill points, I'd be fine with that. That would require some retooling of post 50 leveling, gear, recipes... all sorts of stuff. The 50-80 is doing it's best to preserve the current leveling mechanics while providing players with more regular incentives to keep playing.

and I don't think leveling or the level cap being raised too quickly is the issue... it's a perception issue. But that topic is for another thread

MrGhosty

After seeing how long it took for the champion system and the retooling that required, I'd rather they just leave the ranks as they are or do a 1/1 conversion (ala level 64) and shave down some of the xp required for earlier vet levels.

I would personally rather they spend the time needed to make both cadwells accesible as soon as you complete the main quest that gives players some more fluidity. They've already got the zones duplicated at the various vet tiers it would just be a matter of making copies of those zones available no matter the faction.

The XP required either needs adjusted per vet level or they need to up the payouts for quests and other activities, while the power of your spreadsheets and infographics are impressive I don't want any solutions that seem like they'll take another year to implement.

Their best bet is to either get rid of vet levels right away (before too many console players get there) or leave them as is and find a way to make the system work better. Nice graphics though.

Robbmrp

This is a great suggestion to replace out the Vet levels. It's an MMO after all so who wants to stop at level 50 and never get higher. Yes you will be gaining champion points but you will always have that 50 staring at you wishing it was a larger number.

sadownik

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Gidorick

That would be nice @MrGhosty, lowering the XP requirement across the board to something like 250K should work. I was thinking the TOTAL overall XP requirement would have to be maintained but I think that's wrong.

You'd still get just as powerful as if you had gotten 1million per VR rank. You would have fewer champion points though. I don't see where that would be a problem.

Gidorick

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Gidorick

I agree @Robbmrp. I actually have an un-posted concept about raising levels perpetually to offer players monthly progression... but there are some real concerns about issues that arise with raising the level cap.

sadownik

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Every vet player before 1.6 after the patch and implementing champion system got cp for the vet ranks that were supposed to go away. If you dont want vet ranks go away but rather turn them into normal levels, then you are not entitled to free cp.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I actually really, really like this. The idea is very well thought out, and the presentation is very clear. Subattributes are an interesting addition, but they should probably be a separate thread.

wraith808

sadownik wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Every vet player before 1.6 after the patch and implementing champion system got cp for the vet ranks that were supposed to go away. If you dont want vet ranks go away but rather turn them into normal levels, then you are not entitled to free cp.

That was not the reason for the extra CP. The reason for the CP is that they are bound to XP gain. So without the equivalence, because there is no more content currently, a new Vet1 has more options to garner CP than someone near the end of the game. That was the reason behind that... not as compensation for the removal of veteran ranks. In fact, that's one of the things they've been pretty clear about- you won't lose the progression you've made and they aren't substituting anything for it.

Gidorick

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually really, really like this. The idea is very well thought out, and the presentation is very clear. Subattributes are an interesting addition, but they should probably be a separate thread.

Yea... hindsight You're right @s7732425ub17_ESO . I developed the sub-attributes idea when I was thinking I was going to suggest that we receive attribute points for EVERY level between 50 and 80. That would mean 50 Attribute points and 30 sub-attribute points. Having an additional 16 attribute points to distribute would make a HUGE significance in the power of max level players and level 50 players.

I also have a concept that I haven't posted involving leveling beyond level 80, but I'm still considering some of the issues that arise when you do that. Leveling beyond 80 would require some power mitigation that the sub-attributes would provide. Players wouldn't increase in HP, Magica or Stamina with attribute points but would increase their regen rate, weapon damage and critical percentage with sub attributes... at a MUCH slower rate than with attribute points.

Vizier

ESO doesn't need a vet level replacement ATM other then the Champion Point System it has implemented for the purpose of replacing VR ranks. The game has only been out a year and doesn't even have any new content to speak of. There is no reason to push levels up to 80.

Some people can be bent about what they consider a loss in time and effort when their characters drop to level 50. Shrug. I couldn't really care less about it. People have known for a long time VR ranks were going bye bye. If they ground to 14 for immediate benefit that's on them. They have still received accelerated xp and champion points for have been powerful. Far as I'm concerned that's the trade off. They have more CP then they otherwise would.

Folks just need to get used to the idea characters are going to be level 50 and deal with it.

Gidorick

What about the VR gear and recipes @Vizier? How are they going to handle those aspects of the game if they just remove vet ranks and call it a day? What about the 14 skill points and attribute points? should those be taken away from VR characters? Should other players just not be able to get those skill points and attribute points making it so that they will never, ever be able to be on equal ground?

It's not as simple as just removing Vet ranks, there are other aspects of the game that must be considered.

sadownik

wraith808 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Every vet player before 1.6 after the patch and implementing champion system got cp for the vet ranks that were supposed to go away. If you dont want vet ranks go away but rather turn them into normal levels, then you are not entitled to free cp.

That was not the reason for the extra CP. The reason for the CP is that they are bound to XP gain. So without the equivalence, because there is no more content currently, a new Vet1 has more options to garner CP than someone near the end of the game. That was the reason behind that... not as compensation for the removal of veteran ranks. In fact, that's one of the things they've been pretty clear about- you won't lose the progression you've made and they aren't substituting anything for it.

Nope, they were given as equivalent of removed vet ranks.

Gidorick

sadownik wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Every vet player before 1.6 after the patch and implementing champion system got cp for the vet ranks that were supposed to go away. If you dont want vet ranks go away but rather turn them into normal levels, then you are not entitled to free cp.

That was not the reason for the extra CP. The reason for the CP is that they are bound to XP gain. So without the equivalence, because there is no more content currently, a new Vet1 has more options to garner CP than someone near the end of the game. That was the reason behind that... not as compensation for the removal of veteran ranks. In fact, that's one of the things they've been pretty clear about- you won't lose the progression you've made and they aren't substituting anything for it.

Nope, they were given as equivalent of removed vet ranks.

Well in my concept they would keep them because their characters would simply be granted a level that is appropriate for their Vet Rank.

Vizier

Gidorick wrote: »

What about the VR gear and recipes @Vizier? How are they going to handle those aspects of the game if they just remove vet ranks and call it a day? What about the 14 skill points and attribute points? should those be taken away from VR characters? Should other players just not be able to get those skill points and attribute points making it so that they will never, ever be able to be on equal ground?

It's not as simple as just removing Vet ranks, there are other aspects of the game that must be considered.

Shrug. ZoS has already said folks won't be losing skill points. Likely they will add some skill point rewards to the game accessible by characters without those 14 skill points but we'll see how they handle it. Gear can be scaled down accordingly. I'm not worried.

Only ZoS can say how they are going to handle it but they've already said veteran ranks are going to go away with the CP system assuming the role for character progression.

Don't fear the change. Embrace it. in the end it will be better for ESO IMO.

wraith808

sadownik wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I just hope you do understand that it means players who got free cp will have them taken back?

Why would this happen @sadownik?

Every vet player before 1.6 after the patch and implementing champion system got cp for the vet ranks that were supposed to go away. If you dont want vet ranks go away but rather turn them into normal levels, then you are not entitled to free cp.

That was not the reason for the extra CP. The reason for the CP is that they are bound to XP gain. So without the equivalence, because there is no more content currently, a new Vet1 has more options to garner CP than someone near the end of the game. That was the reason behind that... not as compensation for the removal of veteran ranks. In fact, that's one of the things they've been pretty clear about- you won't lose the progression you've made and they aren't substituting anything for it.

Nope, they were given as equivalent of removed vet ranks.

Any link to support that? Because I have a link to support what I'm saying.

From the transcript of the champion system Q&A a long time ago:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/

Has there been some other statement to the contrary?

wraith808

Vizier wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

What about the VR gear and recipes @Vizier? How are they going to handle those aspects of the game if they just remove vet ranks and call it a day? What about the 14 skill points and attribute points? should those be taken away from VR characters? Should other players just not be able to get those skill points and attribute points making it so that they will never, ever be able to be on equal ground?

It's not as simple as just removing Vet ranks, there are other aspects of the game that must be considered.

Shrug. ZoS has already said folks won't be losing skill points. Likely they will add some skill point rewards to the game accessible by characters without those 14 skill points but we'll see how they handle it. Gear can be scaled down accordingly. I'm not worried.

Only ZoS can say how they are going to handle it but they've already said veteran ranks are going to go away with the CP system assuming the role for character progression.

Don't fear the change. Embrace it. in the end it will be better for ESO IMO.

What specifically don't you like about Veteran Ranks?

Vizier

Doesn't really matter what I don't like about veteran ranks. They are going away and I'm glad of that. I'd rather focus on what I like about the CP system.

Less grind.
less gap between players after level 50
continuing character development through passives
less time commitment to bring a new character to competitive levels account wide.
likely greater opportunities for grouping for PVE
likely higher player retention.


I have several veteran rank characters with my main at V14. I specifically did not grind my other toons to V14 because that is a moot endeavor. (although it's taking alot longer for them to fully implement their plan to remove VRs) I honestly couldn't care less about other players "lost" time, xp and levels.

Since Beta and for most of this last year I've watched the majority of players grind out levels with what amounts to exploitive grinds IMO. Circumstances that were overlooked by ZoS developers and taken advantage of by player to quickly achieve V10- then V12 and Then V14. It's not what was intended and IMO showed the shortcomings of the system vs those that played the game normally. I feel nothing at the loss of such artificially inflated rank.

I realize many players didn't play as I described above but the new CP system being implemented and I can sympathize with how many will feel when Veteran ranks are removed. Life isn't always fair.

Gidorick

Lol. Too bad, so sad. Eh @Vizier.

I honestly don't get the contention regarding "end game leveling". The reason I stopped playing DCUO is I hit level 30 and found out the only way to progress was through gear. Same for Destiny.

If this weren't an Elder Scrolls game this thread would have been about removing levels completely and expanding the champion system. But this IS an Elder Scrolls game and Elder Scrolls games have levels.

To suggest that ESO should do away with levels is akin to suggesting Gran Turismo not have licenses. Sure, it works for Forza, but they're a staple of Gran Turismo.

wraith808

Vizier wrote: »

Doesn't really matter what I don't like about veteran ranks. They are going away and I'm glad of that.

With what they said in reddit, it's a good thing to focus on what people actually don't like about VRs so that those problems can be addressed as it seems it will be later than ever. And discussion is what I presume we come here for, so that could precipitate that discussion. This is why I asked.

Gidorick wrote: »

I honestly don't get the contention regarding "end game leveling". The reason I stopped playing DCUO is I hit level 30 and found out the only way to progress was through gear. Same for Destiny.

This, exactly. You don't see people complain with the level expansions in other games- which leads me to believe that it's the presentation and implementation more than the levels themselves. And the lack of new content.

Vizier

Gidorick wrote: »

Lol. To bad, so sad. Eh @Vizier.

I honestly don't get the contention regarding "end game leveling". The reason I stopped playing DCUO is I hit level 30 and found out the only way to progress was through gear. Same for Destiny.

If this weren't an Elder Scrolls game this thread would have been about removing levels completely and expanding the champion system. But this IS an Elder Scrolls game and Elder Scrolls games have levels.

To suggest that ESO should do away with levels is akin to suggesting Gran Turismo not have licenses. Sure, it works for Forza, but they're a staple of Gran Turismo.

@Gidorick That would be "Too Bad, So Sad....shrug

Nobody is saying they should get rid of leveling. What people don't like about the current VR system is it essentially forces each character to level from 1-50 three times when doing their alliance quests and then Cadwell's Silver and gold, This over the top grind is what caused people to either exploit grind or leave.

The choice is to grind though the quests. Grind dungeons, delves and bosses Or PvP. Quests are great but after the doing them several time already it's like gouging your eyes out with a spoon. Just make it stop already. Dungeons delves and bosses are fantastic for those that dig PVE content which at least is an alternative to questing for those inclined to PVE. For many players, MMO's are about the PvP but the experience gain rates for PvP are easily 5-10 times slower than the above methods. The monstrous grind that is questing and dungeon diving coupled with unnecessarily prohibitive experience gain for PvP IS one of the main reasons ESO has had such a high attrition rate among it's subscriber base and now F2P base.

Again. Nobody is suggesting they remove leveling altogether. (at least I hope not. That IMO would be ridiculous.) I contend that most V14 toons are V14 through grinds that have since been NERFED. Which means ZoS did not intend for players to level that way. So IMO removing those ranks altogether from the game and restructuring is essential. ZoS can blame themselves for creating incentive for players to exploit level because the grind factor is over the top with ESO. Even with the experience requirements reduced to 1 million per Vet Level it's still WTF grindfest. ZoS already acknowledged the VR system was a bust and that they'll be restructuring with the Champion Point system. An announcement IMO well received by the majority of the community. IF they are going to leave in Veteran ranks then they really need to consider unNerfing the good Craglorn and dungeon grinds as well as give vastly improved PvP XP to give a viable alternative to the mental suicide of questing and delve grinds.

The VR system is unnecessary and only serves thin the ranks. ESO doesn't need thinner ranks. It needs a growing player base to keep it vibrant and viable. Once they stop hemorrhaging players they can get back to the process of gamification and player advancement as they introduce new content.

Gidorick

But that's what it says @Vizier

Gidorick wrote: »

Lol. Too bad, so sad. Eh @Vizier.

hehe. I'm going to blame that one on my phone... yea... that's it. My phone.

it seems we are sort of on the same page. The biggest problem we have is content. people are doing the same stuff over and over and over again and to feel like you MUST do it to level creates an issue. I too do not want to see ESO lose players. This is partly the reason for my suggestion. As it stands right now, players are asked to gain about 10X the amount of XP for VR 2 as they are expected VR1, that's ridiculous. Many players will leave when they just seem to be stuck on Vet1 forever.

With my concept players would gain 5 levels during Vet 1, about 4 levels for vet 2, 4 for vet 3, 3 for vet 4 and so on and so forth. Players will "feel" like they are progressing when in reality they aren't progressing any more than they had previously.

It's all about that satisfaction of accomplishment. VR1 levels feel like grinds because there isn't enough content to make them feel rewarding and it takes to long to gain a level. The former is being worked on in the form of DLC, the latter isn't, as far as we know.

I do agree though... content needs to be worked on. Job one need to be content.