Veteran Dungeons are not fun and badly designed! (WAY TOO HARD)

cracker81 · July 2014

Dungeons are the same

Faustes · July 2014

The VR content was brought to a sane level, but the dungeons seem to be just as overpowered.

Magdalina · August 2014

Dungeons are fine. I mean yes, they are very challenging, first time I ran Spindle it took us nearly 4 hours and roughly 30 wipes, but guess what? It was still extremely fun. There should be SOME challenge somewhere, people^^ Vet dungeons are not even 1% of the game. You can quest in all alliances(after vet zones nerf this shouldn't be a problem), you can PvP, you can farm achievements, grind Craglorn, look for treasures with treasure maps...there's virtually no reason for you to run vet dungeons if you don't enjoy them. There's no real reward there aside from the fun and senseof accomplishment. There's one quest per dungeon, you won't lose that much if you skip it. No skyshards, no lorebooks exclusive for vet.

They are great fun with a good team tho;)

Also, someone said something about DW NB here? 2 of the best dps I know roll DW+bow builds. They rock. I don't know about Trials, haven't tried those, but we ran 6/7 vet dungeons and they are awesome. The survivability is amazing, the magic stealth dropping aggro seems to work even on some bosses, the dps is more than decent. Trust me, there's nothing wrong with this build;)

Rosveen · August 2014

Last night I ran Fungal with a PUG of all VR1. We didn't make it, we wiped repeatedly and eventually decided there's no point in trying again. We had problems with both teamwork (expected in a PUG) and damage output, so it really wasn't a good moment for us to be taking on that dungeon. We'd have done it if we had been better prepared.

But earlier I tanked Banished with the same character, two VR2 and one VR5. I did have some trouble as it was my first time there, but overall it went well enough.

So I think the dungeons are fine, probably doable even at VR1 if you have a well-coordinated group. Running with guildies is the best option, really. Their difficulty varies, regardless of group Banished felt easier, but this may actually be a good thing: start with the simplest dungeon and work your way up as you progress through VR.

The only thing that bothers me is the VR5 loot. Nice armor, now if only I didn't have to wait four ranks to wear it... No matter, my crafted gear is nice enough.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · August 2014

I just dont get why veteran dungeons are so much harder then trials. Most I ever wipe on a trials boss is like 2 times, but trying crypt of hearts we can wipe 20 times on the same stupid boss. I love challenge, but I just dont have any dedicated friends on eso so im forced to pug and they just cant handle it. Veteran dungeons should be easier then trials and then maybe the rewards would be more worth while. So too hard for most pugs it seems, the difficulty makes no sense when compared to trials, and the rewards are absolute garbage, so yeah they are poorly designed.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I love challenge, but I just dont have any dedicated friends on eso so im forced to pug and they just cant handle it. the rewards are absolute garbage, so yeah they are poorly designed.

I cleaned it up for you, to give you the answer to your question. that apparently you already knew the answer too.
COH is hard yes but its not harder then trials. whats happening is the skilled people only do trials because Trials offer better rewards. COH is a challenge yes but what you have is Massive amounts of the player base that completely skipped any real group content and went from low VR rank to V12 in craglorn grinds.

Ive cleared COH with skilled & geared trial people not on any Voice com in a pug quite easily. then with my static who are very skilled and have all the achievements in VR10 dungeons but have no trial gear, and it will be difficult. So the second part of COH's diffculty is gear dependent.Its easily doable with Crafted gear which is far better then anything that drops out of VR dungeons. but will punish certain builds primarily stamina ones.

Trials seem easier because they are full of exploits and 3 or 4 skilled geared people can carry the other half of the trial all the way through. In COH you do not have that dynamic everyone has to do their job with no mistakes.

But the last part of the answer is what you already have stated. none of the skilled geared people even want to do any VR 4 man content because all of the rewards suck beyond belief (especially true for COH) . When you can Port to a crafting station and make the best gear in game outside of trials in under 90 seconds and then walk in to a low level zone and farm nodes for refinement rares. there is Zero incentive for anyone to do these dungeons other then going in for the first time to see it.

this game ate itself with its design, its far more a Single player game then a MMO . Personaly the end game was thrown on top of its 1- 50 . very little testing and not much thought of where it would go past its first 90 days. it goes from Casual lvling to this insane grind to reach the end game activites . Then once your there it offers you no reward other then trials. which cater to this elitist meta game that has no room for a casual progression. its meta zerg to the end boss and rinse repeat for gear farming. It seems they put way more thought and design into Cyrodil . The Vr system was nothing more then a cheap trick to extend their PVE game life until they could get Craglorn in.

Natjur · August 2014

Once they add the daily rewards for vet dugns that allow you to buy the same sets from trials, we will see more running vet dugns. Keep an eye out for patch 1.5

Anastasia · August 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I love challenge, but I just dont have any dedicated friends on eso so im forced to pug and they just cant handle it. the rewards are absolute garbage, so yeah they are poorly designed.

I cleaned it up for you, to give you the answer to your question. that apparently you already knew the answer to.
COH is hard yes but its not harder then trials. whats happening is the skilled people only do trials because Trials offer better rewards. COH is a challenge yes but what you have is Massive amounts of the player base that completely skipped any real group content and went from low VR rank to V12 in craglorn grinds.

Ive cleared COH with skilled & geared trial people not on any Voice com in a pug quite easily. then with my static who are very skilled and have all the achievements in VR10 dungeons but have no trial gear, and it will be difficult. So the second part of COH's diffculty is gear dependent.Its easily doable with Crafted gear which is far better then anything that drops out of VR dungeons. but will punish certain builds primarily stamina ones.

Trials seem easier because they are full of exploits and 3 or 4 skilled geared people can carry the other half of the trial all the way through. In COH you do not have that dynamic everyone has to do their job with no mistakes.

But the last part of the answer is what you already have stated. none of the skilled geared people even want to do any VR 4 man content because all of the rewards suck beyond belief (especially true for COH) . When you can Port to a crafting station and make the best gear in game outside of trials in under 90 seconds and then walk in to a low level zone and farm nodes for refinement rares. there is Zero incentive for anyone to do these dungeons other then going in for the first time to see it.

this game ate itself with its design, its far more a Single player game then a MMO . Personaly the end game was thrown on top of its 1- 50 . very little testing and not much thought of where it would go past its first 90 days. it goes from Casual lvling to this insane grind to reach the end game activites . Then once your there it offers you no reward other then trials. which cater to this elitist meta game that has no room for a casual progression. its meta zerg to the end boss and rinse repeat for gear farming. It seems they put way more thought and design into Cyrodil . The Vr system was nothing more then a cheap trick to extend their PVE game life until they could get Craglorn in.

Nerfage of Vet+ 1-10 content to make it comfy for solo-centric demands

= consequences to TESO endgame.

>>>"...amounts of the player base that completely skipped any real group content and went from low VR rank to V12 in craglorn
grinds."[/i<<<

Anastasia · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

Once they add the daily rewards for vet dugns that allow you to buy the same sets from trials, we will see more running vet dugns. Keep an eye out for patch 1.5

Mud_Puppy · August 2014

Literally nothing in the original post is of value. These games are about learning whether you like it or not. And no it has nothing to do with optimal builds, infact the non "cookie cutters" are top tier. It's just play style difficulty.

Either way, please stop this nonsense.

Cody · August 2014

im a casual player and I don't think vet dungeons need to be nerfed. They just don't. Like the normal dungeons, if you have a good group, you should be able to do it. iv done every single vet dungeon, some about 2-3 times, and I don't think any of them are too hard. the finder SAYS VR1-VR5, but lets face it, unless you have high condition gear, and have some other real high level players with you, you wont be doing vet dungeons at VR1. You just won't. You cant just roll thru it like you could the normal dungeons(save for maybe 1 or 2 of the normal dungeons.)

Veteran dungeons require a bit more strategy, and yes, im going to say it, skill, than normal dungeons. They are VETERAN. DUNGEONS. They are supposed to be hard! I do agree that the rewards suck(I did not care for CoH vets' rewards, in fact I thought all the drops were absolute garbage, save for one ring) but the dungeons themselves don't need any nerfing, they just need better loot.

Ragefist · August 2014

Just to be clear, this is ment for OP:

1. Difficulty is very subjective. To me most of content seem very easy (except for trials, but not due to mechanics, its the dps race all over it). So you lowering the difficulty would just ruin it to some people, like VR zones did

2. If you watched Quakecon presentation, you would know that they are working on scaling and we should be seeing improvements pretty soon

3. No I don't care how impatient you are. Just unsub and come later if you cant help it

lathbury · August 2014

I can't wait untill the dungeon scales to your group level will be nice to revisit the dps check in spindle as I v12 and see if we still have it.

ZoM_Head · August 2014

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Currently veteran dungeons seems to favor aoe based dps group and the loot you get from veteran dungeons SUCK! I am a nightblade, duel dagger, my specialty is single target dps, it seems to me there is no place for me.

I suggest making veteran dungeons easier, for example fungol grunto should be for vt lvl1 people and drop vt level 1 items. Because what is the point in doing any dungeon if the reward you get is stuck at a certain lvl? and you are making the dungeons so hard, most people will only do it when they reach lvl10.

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

Since stamina builds (talking in your face warriors and brawlers not sneaky builds) are garbage and have maybe 2-3 aoe skills. These veteran dungeons are obviously AOE designed, which means DK mages with fire staffs. It is fun....-ish but then it gets boring very very fast.

Magdalina · August 2014

Elmojito1000eb17_ESO wrote: »

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Currently veteran dungeons seems to favor aoe based dps group and the loot you get from veteran dungeons SUCK! I am a nightblade, duel dagger, my specialty is single target dps, it seems to me there is no place for me.

I suggest making veteran dungeons easier, for example fungol grunto should be for vt lvl1 people and drop vt level 1 items. Because what is the point in doing any dungeon if the reward you get is stuck at a certain lvl? and you are making the dungeons so hard, most people will only do it when they reach lvl10.

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

Since stamina builds (talking in your face warriors and brawlers not sneaky builds) are garbage and have maybe 2-3 aoe skills. These veteran dungeons are obviously AOE designed, which means DK mages with fire staffs. It is fun....-ish but then it gets boring very very fast.

What? AOE is sure gonna come in handy on trash, but you'll want single target dps on (most) big baddies. You can perfectly run vet dungeons with melee dps in med armor and even melee dps in heavy as long as people know what they're doing - or are willing to learn at least. Only real restriction will be some bosses REQUIRE ranged weapon because you pretty much can never get close to them(like last Darkshade Caverns boss), but most melee people I know have a backup ranged weapon, be it bow or staff, for such situations.

Also, let's not forget class abilities which work regardless of weapon. Every class can probably find a fitting aoe and some ranged spells there.

Soriana · August 2014

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

Super NOT hardcore player here with a super NOT hardcore group of casual players/guild. For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT scale the difficulty! Vet dungeons are one of the last things we have left that are actually a challenge. I cannot stand the fact that dolmens have become laughable, questing is a breeze, and solo/public dungeons are more of a nuisance than anything else.

My motley crew went through Vet Fungal Grotto yesterday morning; took us 1 1/2 hours to get to the final boss and, because of time constraints, we had to quit the dungeon. We went back at it last night (with all the new found knowledge of wiping repeatedly earlier in the day) and made an acceptable run of maybe 45 minutes or so. Nope, we'll never be on the cover of Gamers Week nor do we want to be but by God we had fun!

There are certain things that need to be left a challenge; skill point alone was worth it for me.

Feisty_Khajiit128 · January 2016

I don't get why so many people are complaining about vet dungeons. They are suppose to be hard and are built for higher VR players. There is always normal dungeons for those who want to go casual.

wayfarerx · January 2016

Feisty_Khajiit128 wrote: »

I don't get why so many people are complaining about vet dungeons. They are suppose to be hard and are built for higher VR players. There is always normal dungeons for those who want to go casual.

You know this thread died almost a year and a half ago, right?