Veteran Dungeons are not fun and badly designed! (WAY TOO HARD)

Xanxarib16_ESO

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

Yeah veteran dungeons for casual players... makes a lot of sense!

and badly designed veteran dungeon nobody can beat, makes no sense!

and maybe you should go play wow or rift they made content just for players like you ... "Greatplayer"

the dungeons got some bugs, but they are not hard at all.

masterdtox

U know the funny thing is when u reach VR1 rank ye and u group for a dungeon. Now u kill some bosses where u have a chance on loot and at some point loot drops for u. SO u are exited and glad to get some loot, now u look at the loot and it says VR5 and you are VR1, so sorry u can not wear that item u just need to wait 4 more VR ranks. Fun is this right? And that is another BS design decision from once more glorious dev team. There are from VR1 till VR5 3 dungeons that u can enter from the get go at VR1. But the reality is bosses drop random ITEMS from VR1 till VR5, so it is not worth it at all to play better to wait till VR5 and then start your VR dungeons VR1-Vr5 else it has no point doing them. Same counts for VR5-VR10 with the loot table.. This all is so fun right blows my mind..

Hestia

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Kroin wrote: »

After reading that i decided to try that.
So yesterday with a random group VT2-3, we cleared Spindelclutch with 3 wipes, cant agree with you, and btw if you allready in VT lvls you play alot.

are you sure its not a normal dungeon? pls post video! also gettting whipped 100 times just to complete 1 dungeon is NOT FUN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_yDcDd78YA

Useless thread is useless. Why hasn't this been closed yet?

Custos91

I just jumped in Banished Cells yesterday with a guild tank, he was doing pvp for the last few weeks, so he forgott he hadn't skilled the taunt anymore, additionally he is a vampire and he hasn't any fire resistance, we nearly killed that huge deadroth boss, so I don't understand your problem, we were actually a group of 2,5 dds with one even taking more dmg of most abbilitys in banished cells, than the other, the one who was supposed to be the tank, aka the player who had to jum in there and fet the attention of the mobs xD
With 4 people from the guild it would have worked, I am sure of this^^

And to the issue with the loot:
It was known, months before, that crafting will warad you most of the loot, by just deconstructing most items you will get more then enough mats to get yourself a cool armor craftet! just let a guildmate craft me a complete set of blue VR2 armor, I will put some set items I found will grinding in it and all will be great^^

Keiffo

Check this out. VR1 soloing a boss that I've seen plenty groups of bad players (great players without the knowledge + skill) wipe on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQnsvLte6CI

Now this is a DK soloing the boss... I'm a Nightblade and I've soloed 6 veteran dungeon bosses already. The ones that cannot be soloed are obvious, like the gargoyle, the shadow woman from fungal, the final bosses in all 3 dungeons...(I've actually got one guild member who streamed an attempt to solo the Spindleclutch final boss and he almost did it).

All 3 VR1-VR5 dungeons can be cleared with only 3 people in your group. That is how easy they are.

My friend and I duoed the daedric spider in Fungal Grotto. The one that pulls a player into the cave, meaning it's impossible to solo, but easy to duo. Of course yet again, I join pugs and see bad players die on this boss. It cannot be helped. I guess they will come to the forums and complain too.

Kroin

Keiffo wrote: »

Check this out. VR1 soloing a boss that I've seen plenty groups of bad players (great players without the knowledge + skill) wipe on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQnsvLte6CI

Now this is a DK soloing the boss... I'm a Nightblade and I've soloed 6 veteran dungeon bosses already. The ones that cannot be soloed are obvious, like the gargoyle, the shadow woman from fungal, the final bosses in all 3 dungeons...(I've actually got one guild member who streamed an attempt to solo the Spindleclutch final boss and he almost did it).

All 3 VR1-VR5 dungeons can be cleared with only 3 people in your group. That is how easy they are.

My friend and I duoed the daedric spider in Fungal Grotto. The one that pulls a player into the cave, meaning it's impossible to solo, but easy to duo. Of course yet again, I join pugs and see bad players die on this boss. It cannot be helped. I guess they will come to the forums and complain too.

Some bosses are easier alone than in a group

stryderzz

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Currently veteran dungeons seems to favor aoe based dps group and the loot you get from veteran dungeons SUCK! I am a nightblade, duel dagger, my specialty is single target dps, it seems to me there is no place for me.

I suggest making veteran dungeons easier, for example fungol grunto should be for vt lvl1 people and drop vt level 1 items. Because what is the point in doing any dungeon if the reward you get is stuck at a certain lvl? and you are making the dungeons so hard, most people will only do it when they reach lvl10.

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

LOL!!!!! they are not hard at all, you just have 2 use skill, bro i'm as ST as possible bow wielding khajiit NB shadow archer 0 aoes all straight ST dmg, and i headshot the mobs in vet dungeons.

that being said I LOVE VET DUNGEONS! they are refreshingly hard and take actual skill, the first pull on fungal for the first time i died, i sat up in my chair and was like...ok this sh*ts getting real now /gameface and it took a couple hrs of training noobs and we whooped fungal all nice and sexy and the accomplishment felt AMAZING, it felt like we just accomplished something great! (whole group was vet rank 1 and not on voicechat because it was half pug)


now there are bugs, and i noticed this like the 2nd boss (i think idk her name shes the one that has the ritual with the chains) she would spawn several stages at once and we thought that was a bug cause it would CC the healer then pop the adds which would one-shot everyone w/o proper heals, even with this difficulty we still powered through it and beat her though, i think the bugs should be addressed thats all, i DO NOT think they should be nerfed, the games already been way to nerfed as it is, 1-50 was a cake walk and maybe thats why "casual" players are having such a hard time because the 1-50 did nothing to prepare them for THE TERROR! lol

but seriously if you actually try and learn the mechanics you can do these dungeons fairly easy, it just needs you 2 be on your game and react perfectly because the room for failure at vet rank 1 is very slim but doable, i love vet dungeons and i really hope they don't nerf them because it would make this game way to easy, my suggestion is keep at it, read up on the tactics watch the fights on youtube and keep wiping until you get it right, don't QQ on forums about its too harrrrdddd, lol.

CrispZ

do not nerf infact make them harder

Wifeaggro13

CrispZ wrote: »

do not nerf infact make them harder

Agreed and fix the f ing loot tables so we dont have till VR 5 . I like this game alot but it is painfully clear the devs have zero grip on end game itemization and mechanics.

masterdtox

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

CrispZ wrote: »

do not nerf infact make them harder

Agreed and fix the f ing loot tables so we dont have till VR 5 . I like this game alot but it is painfully clear the devs have zero grip on end game itemization and mechanics.

you totally right, last night i did one of the first VR dungeons and guess what VR5 item drops from first boss. I was glad to get loot at all because its on chance to get loot but sadly it was VR5 and i am still VR1 so i guess i will do those maybe when i hit VR5. All those things that those DEV's THINK that would be great fail so HARD it is getting more and more clear to all ppl that hit 50+ and i think players are not really amused by it.

djodars

The Elder Scrolls predicted threads like this one.

Two and a half week before the casuals come crying on the forums trying to nerf content. Please, if you able to do the dungeons and aren't willing to use voice comms to smooth things out, dungeons just aren't for you. Stick to solo content or go play Nintendogs or something.

kristiannyman88b16_ESO

The main problem as I see it is that the dungeons are placed in the VR1 zones. Many people tend to think that due to it's location it should be a VR1 when it's actually VR5.

They're challenging at VR1 even for a organised group who uses voicecom. Except for BC which is alot easier than Spindle and Grotto.

As for PUGs, yeah it's gonna be insanely hard at VR1 if you don't find the right people. Level up abit then come back and it'll be alot easier.

The dungeons still requires you to avoid certain things and have tactics. It's not just pure tank and spank which I love. You have to be alert on many of the bosses.

Any kind of nerf is a BIG No. Keep them as they are challengewise. People just need to learn how to beat them.

Eccentric

I think it is a good thing some get hit by a wall in tah f***ing face, might show them they really are not as good they think they are.

Already been too many threads about how easy the game is, funny to see someone actually making a thread about having a hard time.

Axer

Oh another
"me me me" Make the game only for "me".

The solution here is not to nerf the game to make it more fun for you, or other casual players.

It's to add difficulty settings, so everyone can enjoy the dungeons at their own level.

The current could become "hard, with a normal mode being a bit easier, and elite mode for the hardcore seeking a true challenge. And add some achievements for beating elite, wearing no armor, with no deaths please

GamePlayer7

The risk/reward ratio for all dungeons in this game is a bit askew. Until this is changed I'm simply avoiding them, they just don't seem like the best use of my time.

masterdtox

GamePlayer7 wrote: »

The risk/reward ratio for all dungeons in this game is a bit askew. Until this is changed I'm simply avoiding them, they just don't seem like the best use of my time.

Well let just hope the developers are involved in those matters and are reading the forums. But don't count on it i have seen the patch-notes for the upcoming new content, nothing is there written that will address this issue with the dungeon's.

Only the chest thingy will be fixed, so that not like it is now 1 player gets loot from chest and rest not, all will get the loot if 1 loots the chest. How generous from them, now u can actually get some decent loot from chest and killing bosses for loot will be still pointless.

Oh ye and players will get more XP from mobs that u kill. I think that sums it all up for the upcoming changes for the dungeons. Wonder how the loot drops for the Trails/Raids are designed....

Reinmard

I know right? Im a templar healer full medium armor with full aedric spear build and 50 full health and OMFG I CANT HEAL A VT DUNGEON
Also, Im RANK 1 and cannot *** finish one single vt dungeon, OMG it sais rank 1-5, I should be able to own everything with lvl 50 gear even if the bosses are rank 4 or 5!!!
Omfg just nerf right now all the pve and put a raid finder plzzz.

Wifeaggro13

Reinmard wrote: »

I know right? Im a templar healer full medium armor with full aedric spear build and 50 full health and OMFG I CANT HEAL A VT DUNGEON
Also, Im RANK 1 and cannot *** finish one single vt dungeon, OMG it sais rank 1-5, I should be able to own everything with lvl 50 gear even if the bosses are rank 4 or 5!!!
Omfg just nerf right now all the pve and put a raid finder plzzz.

VR dungeons are moderately hard. the group mechinacs are monkey easy. They need to define things a bit more . right now its very chaotic and the whole ide is to just basicly stay out of puddles and out live the bosses until the fall over from exhaustion.

Reinmard

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Reinmard wrote: »

I know right? Im a templar healer full medium armor with full aedric spear build and 50 full health and OMFG I CANT HEAL A VT DUNGEON
Also, Im RANK 1 and cannot *** finish one single vt dungeon, OMG it sais rank 1-5, I should be able to own everything with lvl 50 gear even if the bosses are rank 4 or 5!!!
Omfg just nerf right now all the pve and put a raid finder plzzz.

VR dungeons are moderately hard. the group mechinacs are monkey easy. They need to define things a bit more . right now its very chaotic and the whole ide is to just basicly stay out of puddles and out live the bosses until the fall over from exhaustion.

Now, leaving the trolling apart, I think we should give them an opportunity, I guess in the next content (not craglorn, fuuuuuuture content) they will improve mechanic etc, but for first pve content? I think is good...
They need to try things in order to improve, or do you do everything perfect the first try, in-game and irl speaking? Its the same for the developer steam, at least thats what I think.
It could also be than they dont improve or they get worse...in that case *** them.

aeroch

Haven't read the thread but I'll chime in

I can see Veteran dungeons being difficult to impossible for a Group Findered pickup group

Me and three friends in VoIP did the first three today, learned the mechanics, and we're farming them currently. A few deaths here and there but our second or third runs through we completed the Speed and Undaunted achievements

If they're made easier then they won't be fun or challenging for well-coordinated groups

I haven't been able to try any of them other than Fungal, Spindle, and Banished Cells yet, but I think they're as difficult as they should be

grrzoot2020b14_ESO

not yet at that vet lvl content,

but vt level is what it is. you are supposed to know how to support your group.

Bandras

if you ask whether these veteran dungeaons need some tweaking and tuning then my answer is yes. It is pretty funny that in vet Banished Cells you can loot lvl 15 items. It might have been a bug but it happened twice during the last couple of days.

I also agree that the drops might be more useful. Looting vt5 items is not too good when you are vet 1 or vet

On the other hand, I like the challanges these dungeons provide. You really have to watch what you are doing and that is always a good thing. I mostly run these vet dungeons with a PUGs and sometimes it is fine and sometimes these runs are terrible.

The best run I have done was with a group of 3 vt1s and 1 vt2. None of us were special so these dungeons can be done.

Sometimes you really start asking yourself how certain ppl could get to lvl 50 when tanks dont want to taunt (because then that mosnter will attack me only...) or they do not have any fire resists and they are burnt in a few seconds. Being a healer I often see people running out of aoe heals or running away from me. At the Banished cells Infernal boss they keep standing in the fire and at Imiril for instance they run into the red circles even when you tell them not to. Others like pulling full packs (some dps) thinking that they can solo them and yet again some others keep running ahead of the whole group pulling everything when the rest of the group is still opening chests or just checking books etc.

Once ppl learn to play this well and realise that they dont need all of the skills that are available then everythign will get better.

Andy22

Bandras wrote: »

Sometimes you really start asking yourself how certain ppl could get to lvl 50 when tanks dont want to taunt (because then that mosnter will attack me only...) or they do not have any fire resists and they are burnt in a few seconds.

Keep in mind that the taunt "feedback" is so weak, thats its hard to judge weather u taunted successfully or not. If u have lag its even worse, also many bosses have random target mechanics, so taunt does nothing at all.
Depending on the class, tanks may run out of sta quickly, so taunt can be tricky.

So sometimes it may look like the tank is not taunting, while actually tries his best. As example most tank classes, will run out of sta after 3-7 taunts depending on sta pool/regen/pot usage.

ex0.f00kb16_ESO

OMFG I'm realy Fed up with people complaining bout the dungoens or quest's to be toooooo HARD.... seriously go play Lego Online or smthn....

!st.) Learn how to play your Class at V1 you should have round bout 100 Skillpoints, use them right "not all in the Crafting Trees" if you got problems with movement don't be a Vampire at Fire Bosses...(or get yourself a Ring or Glyph with fire resist)
(dont use Light armor and bow when your tanking ^^)

Speaking of Vet dungeons they are NOT HARD to complete... there were mmo's were you have to farm gear at the first boss to be able to complete the others ^^(that is Hard)
Here you can do any vet dungeon with a V1 (if they got some brains & the right skill set)
Hope Raiding will get a higher difficulty.

Wifeaggro13

Reinmard wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Reinmard wrote: »

I know right? Im a templar healer full medium armor with full aedric spear build and 50 full health and OMFG I CANT HEAL A VT DUNGEON
Also, Im RANK 1 and cannot *** finish one single vt dungeon, OMG it sais rank 1-5, I should be able to own everything with lvl 50 gear even if the bosses are rank 4 or 5!!!
Omfg just nerf right now all the pve and put a raid finder plzzz.

VR dungeons are moderately hard. the group mechinacs are monkey easy. They need to define things a bit more . right now its very chaotic and the whole ide is to just basicly stay out of puddles and out live the bosses until the fall over from exhaustion.

Now, leaving the trolling apart, I think we should give them an opportunity, I guess in the next content (not craglorn, fuuuuuuture content) they will improve mechanic etc, but for first pve content? I think is good...
They need to try things in order to improve, or do you do everything perfect the first try, in-game and irl speaking? Its the same for the developer steam, at least thats what I think.
It could also be than they dont improve or they get worse...in that case *** them.

There is no trolling here . its my humble opinion after ding the first 3 VR dungeons. Not saying ESO scks, but ive played far to many MMO's at launch and watched the same mistake over and over.

Wifeaggro13

Andy22 wrote: »

Bandras wrote: »

Sometimes you really start asking yourself how certain ppl could get to lvl 50 when tanks dont want to taunt (because then that mosnter will attack me only...) or they do not have any fire resists and they are burnt in a few seconds.

Keep in mind that the taunt "feedback" is so weak, thats its hard to judge weather u taunted successfully or not. If u have lag its even worse, also many bosses have random target mechanics, so taunt does nothing at all.
Depending on the class, tanks may run out of sta quickly, so taunt can be tricky.

So sometimes it may look like the tank is not taunting, while actually tries his best. As example most tank classes, will run out of sta after 3-7 taunts depending on sta pool/regen/pot usage.

the other issue is there is no aggro swap between tanks. if you have two tanks and one taunts the other cannot take it with a taunt until that tank is dead.there are several things in the tanking dynamic that need to be adjusted right now the mechanics are very rudimentary though people scream its not played that way yadda yadda. Its dancing a line between GW2 and a true MMO. i like the action combat but for arguments sake all of the CC needs to have time extensions and we need AOE stuns plain and simple i am not sure a aoe taunt is in order with those adjustmnts, either that or adjust the social ranges of trash mobs pulling a group of five or six should not aggro another 8 from a different room or a football field away of a large cavern. all those mobs on screen do not create a sense of danger or urgeny it becomes Eye strain and confusion. Small adjustments could bring a much better group dynamic with more defintion in the builds. i understand the fluidty of thier combat concepts . they can retain the fluid everyone can manage any role but they need to define those rolls currently its just DPS and heals with some mild CC some . Secondly itemizing the VR dungeons properly would help greatly. Adding another three and splitting it into 3 tiers would help alleviate the frustration and grind the VR ranks seem can feel like for those that would rather not do all the faction content and save it for a reroll .

Divayith

Bandras wrote: »

if you ask whether these veteran dungeaons need some tweaking and tuning then my answer is yes. It is pretty funny that in vet Banished Cells you can loot lvl 15 items. It might have been a bug but it happened twice during the last couple of days.

I also agree that the drops might be more useful. Looting vt5 items is not too good when you are vet 1 or vet

On the other hand, I like the challenges these dungeons provide. You really have to watch what you are doing and that is always a good thing. I mostly run these vet dungeons with a PUGs and sometimes it is fine and sometimes these runs are terrible.

The best run I have done was with a group of 3 vt1s and 1 vt2. None of us were special so these dungeons can be done.

Sometimes you really start asking yourself how certain ppl could get to lvl 50 when tanks don't want to taunt (because then that monster will attack me only...) or they do not have any fire resists and they are burnt in a few seconds. Being a healer I often see people running out of aoe heals or running away from me. At the Banished cells Infernal boss they keep standing in the fire and at Imiril for instance they run into the red circles even when you tell them not to. Others like pulling full packs (some dps) thinking that they can solo them and yet again some others keep running ahead of the whole group pulling everything when the rest of the group is still opening chests or just checking books etc.

Once ppl learn to play this well and realize that they don't need all of the skills that are available then everything will get better.

This. I will admit, it gets a bit frustrating running Vet Dungeons using the group finder, I have met a few good players and added them to my friends list when they agree. I also changed my tactics in PuGs, I now focus almost entirely on CC and let the other guys DPS. This has made the trash pulls a little less annoying. The bosses are another story all together.

While I find the Boss mechanics fairly strait forward and simple enough to understand, execution is another thing. 1-50 is a cake walk. Overworld Vet content isn't significantly more difficult either. My problem with the Vet dungeons has less to do with the "nuts and bolts" of the design and more to do with the community. 2-3 wipes on a boss and everyone should understand the mechanics, be able to read the cues both visual and audible, and be able to effectively execute. When it turns into a 2 hour run because we spend 5-6 attempts trying to down a particular boss it begins to wear patience thin.

The other problem I have regarding the "community" is many times 1-2 wipes on a boss and the group hemorrhages or devolves into a vitriol fuelded responsibility diffuser. Personally I am willing to spend some time with the group helping them to understand the mechanics and practice the execution. But as usual it only takes a few failures and the group begins to fracture.

In short its the wanna be "I'm a pro why aren't you" players that make the Vet Dungeons so difficult. And Ive found 9 out of 10 times the "Pro" tends to be the first to fall and first to rage. While some of the best individuals Ive grouped with were the silent heroes that stuck it out till the end. More than a few times Ive sent out whispers after a run thanking the real "Pros" for their patience with the weaker links.

one final note, I am not a pro, I'm a moderately skilled player who understands game mechanics.

*edit*
Also that whole "OMFG L2P" or "If its too hard go play Minesweeper"doesnt help the player struggling. If you really dont want the game beaten to death with the Nerf Bat perhaps working with the community to help the struggling player improve would be more constructive.

Nina

Divayith wrote: »

<snip>

People like you are the heroes that even in the small things understands the need for nurturing a community.

I think it helps to think of community as a derivative of Communications; how we communicate.

Wifeaggro13

Divayith wrote: »

Bandras wrote: »

if you ask whether these veteran dungeaons need some tweaking and tuning then my answer is yes. It is pretty funny that in vet Banished Cells you can loot lvl 15 items. It might have been a bug but it happened twice during the last couple of days.

I also agree that the drops might be more useful. Looting vt5 items is not too good when you are vet 1 or vet

On the other hand, I like the challenges these dungeons provide. You really have to watch what you are doing and that is always a good thing. I mostly run these vet dungeons with a PUGs and sometimes it is fine and sometimes these runs are terrible.

The best run I have done was with a group of 3 vt1s and 1 vt2. None of us were special so these dungeons can be done.

Sometimes you really start asking yourself how certain ppl could get to lvl 50 when tanks don't want to taunt (because then that monster will attack me only...) or they do not have any fire resists and they are burnt in a few seconds. Being a healer I often see people running out of aoe heals or running away from me. At the Banished cells Infernal boss they keep standing in the fire and at Imiril for instance they run into the red circles even when you tell them not to. Others like pulling full packs (some dps) thinking that they can solo them and yet again some others keep running ahead of the whole group pulling everything when the rest of the group is still opening chests or just checking books etc.

Once ppl learn to play this well and realize that they don't need all of the skills that are available then everything will get better.

This. I will admit, it gets a bit frustrating running Vet Dungeons using the group finder, I have met a few good players and added them to my friends list when they agree. I also changed my tactics in PuGs, I now focus almost entirely on CC and let the other guys DPS. This has made the trash pulls a little less annoying. The bosses are another story all together.

While I find the Boss mechanics fairly strait forward and simple enough to understand, execution is another thing. 1-50 is a cake walk. Overworld Vet content isn't significantly more difficult either. My problem with the Vet dungeons has less to do with the "nuts and bolts" of the design and more to do with the community. 2-3 wipes on a boss and everyone should understand the mechanics, be able to read the cues both visual and audible, and be able to effectively execute. When it turns into a 2 hour run because we spend 5-6 attempts trying to down a particular boss it begins to wear patience thin.

The other problem I have regarding the "community" is many times 1-2 wipes on a boss and the group hemorrhages or devolves into a vitriol fuelded responsibility diffuser. Personally I am willing to spend some time with the group helping them to understand the mechanics and practice the execution. But as usual it only takes a few failures and the group begins to fracture.

In short its the wanna be "I'm a pro why aren't you" players that make the Vet Dungeons so difficult. And Ive found 9 out of 10 times the "Pro" tends to be the first to fall and first to rage. While some of the best individuals Ive grouped with were the silent heroes that stuck it out till the end. More than a few times Ive sent out whispers after a run thanking the real "Pros" for their patience with the weaker links.

one final note, I am not a pro, I'm a moderately skilled player who understands game mechanics.

*edit*
Also that whole "OMFG L2P" or "If its too hard go play Minesweeper"doesnt help the player struggling. If you really dont want the game beaten to death with the Nerf Bat perhaps working with the community to help the struggling player improve would be more constructive.

Group finders are what has destroyed community and is responsible for watering down of content in group mechanics. unfortunately the days of making long lasting relationships in game are long gone. It is too late to roll the clock back on the feature as well. To many people have become used to them and actually never played a MMo where they were not implemented. they serve as a quick way to get into group content but i feel they actually cause more frustration then they alleviate in the long run. Active guilds are a great way to avoid this feature. we are not a large guild 60 people maybe half that Daily active with a core of 12 that have been gaming together since the launch of EQ2. I will only use GF to fill a DPS roll if no one wants to go. they work great for the lower dungeons. but its hit and miss for VR. And there is never any chastising of the GF people we do pick up we paitiently explain mechanics and help them to understand the fight and they always leave happy. 1- or 2 wipes is standard, i actually prefer the launch version of Rift it was hard slow progression for the average skill player could take a week of nightly working on a dungeon to get all the way through. and it felt like a sense of accomplishment. 6 weeks after they severly nerfed them, why? because they added a group finder . Lets hope Craglorn is left out of the group finder and the difficulty is kept hard so friendships and reliability of character can flourish. it will be better for the community.

Rothguard

Sorry I have to disagree. High lvl dungeons should be hard enough to wipe the group if they make mistakes that is what makes clearing it so rewarding. I miss the good ole days of wow when you had to plan for days before you even thought of attempting/wiping on the first trash pull of stratholme. I would be fine with having multiple lvl difficulty's as long as they leave the high lvl content alone for people like me. Yes i'm that guy who loves having to coordinate with others using teamspeak. To me that's what makes it fun! So ready some good ole raid content...vacation is saved up lol.