Veteran Dungeons are not fun and badly designed! (WAY TOO HARD)

Kroin

The dungeons become quite easy, after you know what the bosses do, so they are designed the right way, some bosses could be a bit harder but heh im ok with it.

AH93

Vet dungeons are perfectly fine, get yourself a competent group, learn the mechanics and you'll have no problems.

These dungeons should not be nerfed at all! Sadly since they are crapping around with most other things, vet dungeons are probably going that way too.

sgtalexinsidpreeb18_ESO

only broblem with vet dungeons is that they start at vet 5 instead of vet 1... so we need more of em...

Zaxq

GreatPlayer wrote: »

I am just advocating what is best for the game, and right now the game is heading towards f2p. Even thought I play upwards of 12 hrs a day I don't consider myself hardcore and I don't find super hard difficulty that don't offer up any great reward fun, and casual players like myself want scaled difficulty!

1. No, youre not advocating whats best for the game, you're making a (poor) argument for what YOU personally want the game to be.

2. Stop posting garbage about "it'll be F2P" if you dont get your way. Aside from being a boring Cliche, its utter utter rubbish - and it makes you look like a total tool.

3. Time logged in to a game doesnt make you good. You can spend 12 hrs a day and still be awful. Which I suspect you are (from what youve already posted).

4. Hardcore/Casual shouldnt affect game design to any major degree. If you can only play an hour a day, you really shouldnt be expecting to be on an even footing with someone that can spend 2 hours a day. or 5. or 20. Posting that you play 12 hrs a day and consider yourself casual is irrelevant.

5. Go play a game that meets your needs. Stop trying to turn every mmo into WoW-Easymode-WelfareEPix crap.

thomas.manzellaub17_ESO

I could care less about the difficulty of VR dungeons. What I want is for the rewards to match it.

vencibushy

Just left a party of VR2 ppl. We tried to beat Fungal Grotto and we failed miserably!

I don't complaint. I will just wait till I get VR5

Where I see the problem is that those dungeons are clearly not meant for VR1-3 players. The plain logic dictates that they should not be "shown" as VR1-VR5.

Maybe in the future ZOS will spread the levels across all instances available. For now people should just avoid the first set of dungeons till they hit VR4.

Feidam

GreatPlayer wrote: »

knaveofengland wrote: »

if its that hard then they in time will change it, but in general terms make it to easy then not worth doing

at least make the reward better, and wtf do you get for completing a veteran dungeon? sometimes you dont get anything but a stupid skill point or at best a purple item, ARE YOU *** kidding me?

You will not get a legendary from dungeons. In one of the interviews they said only crafters can make legendarys

thesmulf

Please.. i take it you never played end game dungs in TSW, then you would be crying yourself to sleep.. this is the first fun i have since TSW in PVE.. Because its challenge, I ran BC with pretty much all sort of level and classes, If single target just need CC,

I beat spindle yesterday 1 D-D (DW) NB,(VR4) 1 sorc( VR1) , healer and me was VR 6. Took 21 mins. I was in SHOCK how quick we clearly this as pug, But these guys were good players and did bother to get dps meter to improve theirs.

must say i´m deeply annoyed by this spoiled brats being too used to being spoon ´facked to enjoy any challenge. Try RL pal.

johansandsbraatenb16_ESO

.

Corithna

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Phaistos wrote: »

I beat two of the three dungeons with a random group full of VR1. It is possible.
I agree it is a bit of a downer to get loot (if at all) that is only wearable at VR5, but I can live with that.

I disagree with the difficulty. The dungeons are hard and that is a good thing. Figure it out, play smart and enjoy the experience!

You are so full of yourself!

Oh and you're not?

Sigh, First off I'd advise you to gear yourself up to at least your current VR level in all your gear. You will find that the game gets much easier if you do this simple thing. I know you will read and hear all about how this or that stat is only this small amount better so it's not really worth it, etc. Don't listen to them, trust me, at level gear makes a huge difference. And I mean armor and jewelry too, not just your weapon. You will see a massive upgrade in your own performance dps wise by simply equipping the right level of gear.

Craft it up yourself, of farm out the mats for the weight of armor you want and ask a buddy, guildie, or just a random good Samaritan to craft it up for you. Trust me, you will be much happier when you do.

Bhakura

Ok im tired of this.
Sorry for the wall of text but gonna tell you why vet dungeons "seem" hard.
ESO introduced synergies to the world of MMO, its an effect skill produce other players can use toa ctivate an even better effect.

Now wanna know what i see when doing dungeons? People running in, blasting all what they have all over the place, synergies follow each other up faster then you can click to activate them. In all that rubble you can be lucky if one gets fired of, if even people are even bothering to fire em off in first place. To use an example, running dungeons as healer with bolstering darkness, this is a short invis buff, damage reduction buff in the area and, a MASSIVE heal 2k (!). And always mention that before i start so everyone knows what Hidden refresh (the synergy fom it) does.
So was doing dungeon, all went fine and suddenly all went hairy and another nb, the archer in our group got agro, the guy panicked and started running allover the place, was constantly spamming heals and the aoe ground heal under his feet, but he kept running out of it, meanwhile hp dropping like a brick. Bolstering darkness was charged and ready, so ran up to him and activated ... the guy died in the circle letting a 2k heal just pass him by.
So my point of all this dribble im spewing is, dungeons arent hard, not knowing how to use a brand new way of playing is. This game isnt a dps race, this game isnt designed to spew skills till da break o dawn and get an insane high parser, im sure there will be in craglorn but thats when things REALLY gonna get interesting. youre not suposed to run in and spam skills and make a total mess of synergys, starting the fight when everyone still has full health and boss isnt even scratched yet, but i can activate purify already ... WHAT FOR everyone has full health for crying out loud? Synergys dont exactly stay forever you know. And then things get hairy, people are in need of immidiate medical attention, what do i NOT see? you got it, purify synergy.
im healing in dungeons and i stay close to tank while avoiding aoes to be able to activate impale synergy, i shouldnt have to do that, im healer, i should be healing, but if noone else is, that heavy hit is gonna go to waste. Well, that and it kinda looks cool, stomp on the floor like a sumo ...
taken from wiki:

Synergy is the interaction of multiple elements in a system to produce an effect different from or greater than the sum of their individual effects. The term synergy comes from the Greek word synergia συνέργεια from synergos, συνεργός, meaning "working together".

You wanna do vet dungeons? Use synergy as they are disgned for and dont spam them blindly but use em when they are needed if they have a specific function, not suer everyone knows? Dont kick for being the noob that they are but explain it, a lot less noobs next run, and WAY less moaning and crying on forums about dungeons being to hard.
They are to hard because people dont use the system as its designed to do, im pretty sure a coordinated synergy team is gonna wipe the floor with dungeons, and i am even more sure if you are NOT coordinating this in raids to come, you will have a hard time getting on first place.

All this, an meanwhile people are complaing this isnt a group game but feels like solo game.
LOL LOOOOOOOOOL

The time of wow combat has ended, standing there like a salt pillar and ram buttons doesnt work anymore, get it in your thick skulls and stop moaning.

doggie

Bit of a problem with synergies and spaming is that some useful abilities like the Tank's ranged taunt have useless synergy on them. And sometimes when you see the boss not behaving you might think the taunt failed so you fire off another.

There are probably many other abilities that are good by themselves to use that just fire off synergies so that's why there is spamming.

Bhakura

doggie wrote: »

Bit of a problem with synergies and spaming is that some useful abilities like the Tank's ranged taunt have useless synergy on them. And sometimes when you see the boss not behaving you might think the taunt failed so you fire off another.

There are probably many other abilities that are good by themselves to use that just fire off synergies so that's why there is spamming.

never sayed anything about usefull synergies or not, work it out what is usefull for certain fights, who should activate when, now your playing as a group and watch them "impossible" bosses melt like ice-cream in the sun.
Synergies the most powerfull thing on your skillbar, and it requires teamwork to use em properly.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

Unbalanced maj and stam builds lol You need some health.

Oh and don't forget, as I used to remind my guildies in a very loud voice -

DO NOT STAND IN THE STUPID !

Wifeaggro13

Zaxq wrote: »

GreatPlayer wrote: »

I am just advocating what is best for the game, and right now the game is heading towards f2p. Even thought I play upwards of 12 hrs a day I don't consider myself hardcore and I don't find super hard difficulty that don't offer up any great reward fun, and casual players like myself want scaled difficulty!

1. No, youre not advocating whats best for the game, you're making a (poor) argument for what YOU personally want the game to be.

2. Stop posting garbage about "it'll be F2P" if you dont get your way. Aside from being a boring Cliche, its utter utter rubbish - and it makes you look like a total tool.

3. Time logged in to a game doesnt make you good. You can spend 12 hrs a day and still be awful. Which I suspect you are (from what youve already posted).

4. Hardcore/Casual shouldnt affect game design to any major degree. If you can only play an hour a day, you really shouldnt be expecting to be on an even footing with someone that can spend 2 hours a day. or 5. or 20. Posting that you play 12 hrs a day and consider yourself casual is irrelevant.

5. Go play a game that meets your needs. Stop trying to turn every mmo into WoW-Easymode-WelfareEPix crap.

Well said . there are many casual players that are far better then any HC . And if your a true casual you probably don't even care about gear or number crunching any how. those that spend their time in progression even if it's only 5 hours a week will progress. If you want food stamp gear that can be aquired by doing dailies go play Rift or WOW. you guys already ruined those games for the rest of us just keep playing them.

Veridiano02

Ok, so the problem here is this: Until VR5, you can't make dungeons. I'm not saying "it's too hard", it's just the game says, when you're in VR1-3, that "there're not dungeons for you". Clear and simple. And that's it.

The problem here it's not they are too hard. I come from games like "The Secret World", where Nightmare dungeons boss kill tanks with a single blow, where DPS are crystal cannons, and you have to learn a single build FOR EVERY SINGLE BOSS.

This is, more or less, the same I see here, and I love it. The problem is that I HAVE TO RUSH TO BLOODY VR4 before the game actually allow me to enter in a dungeon. I'm healer, sorcerer, and I healed VR5 bosses without problem at VR2, because I already have all the pasives and Restoration staff (and another skills) at 50. BUT I DON'T WANT TO WAIT TO VR4 TO MAKE THE MATCHMAKING WORKS, specially if I don't need to. I already have the skills, and that skills are not going to change. My restoration staff skill is not going to be better. Maybe my gear, but my gear is fine now for that.

The problem here is: You finally are 50. You become VR1. Great, now, sorry, but no more dungeons for you until VR4. Sorry, but *** you. That's the problem here. So, a boss can be VR3 and improved with the same stats that have now, at VR5 but in VR1-3, so the people that actually love the dungeons on this game like me. I'm leader of a guild. We're casual, but we're old PvE players. We love to make dungeons, we have Mumble and we have forums and we even know each other enough to know how to make our group works. We want to do dungeons THE ENTIRE TIME. Suddenly, when you hit VR1, you can't do more dungeons until VR4. And it's not easy to hit VR4. Well, no, it's easy, but it takes time. A lot. Specially if you have a live, a family, a work... You know, that things that not allow you to play 24/7.

That's the problem here. That's a broken mechanic.

Artemiisia

Just had a clean run 4 VR4s we did Banished Cells with one death, no wipes at all.

Alpha_Protocol

@GreatPlayer‌ ... seriously?

rusila22 wrote: »

I totally agree with GreatPlayer . I just can't understand why did we have to kill trash and mobs really more powerful than a new vet 1 who he's still geared lv47-50. Really it's a nightmare it's frustrating and finally you told to yourself why am i WASTING my time here,in this dungeon for vet1 but all ennemis are r5 ! Please zeni you really need to do something about that. A game is here to be funny not to make players angry ! i bet there are not many people who cleaned your dungeons because bug in dungeons+difficulty too high are just annonying. ty for reading me.

Stop entering content you aren't geared for. Players that do that are the reason other MMO's have group leaders doing spot gear checks. When you die in a dungeon just remember, that trash-mob did the gear check for you.

Xaei

thesmulf wrote: »

Please.. i take it you never played end game dungs in TSW, then you would be crying yourself to sleep.. this is the first fun i have since TSW in PVE.. Because its challenge, I ran BC with pretty much all sort of level and classes, If single target just need CC,

I beat spindle yesterday 1 D-D (DW) NB,(VR4) 1 sorc( VR1) , healer and me was VR 6. Took 21 mins. I was in SHOCK how quick we clearly this as pug, But these guys were good players and did bother to get dps meter to improve theirs.

must say i´m deeply annoyed by this spoiled brats being too used to being spoon ´facked to enjoy any challenge. Try RL pal.

Apart from Hell Fallen NM, none of the NM dungeons in TSW are actually that hard. Unforgiving (1 failed mechanic = wipe most of the time, and some mechanics were pretty brutal), but not hard. They're mostly very scripted, so once you figured it out and did it a few times, you're all set.

I think vet dungeons are often quite difficult in the same way that Hell Fallen is difficult: there's a general strategy you should use to beat every encounter, but it doesn't play out in the same way every time, so there's that factor of randomness which you have to adapt to.

Xanxarib16_ESO

stop calling for a nerf of content when its a no brainer to complete it. im sick of low IQ kids that cant think for them self for 2 sec to figure out a mechanic. hell google the dungeon name if its to hard and you get a video guide the tells you what to, if you cant mange that mmo's are not for you, so go play a single player game where you enter cheat codes to beat the game.

Cogo

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Currently veteran dungeons seems to favor aoe based dps group and the loot you get from veteran dungeons SUCK! I am a nightblade, duel dagger, my specialty is single target dps, it seems to me there is no place for me.

I suggest making veteran dungeons easier, for example fungol grunto should be for vt lvl1 people and drop vt level 1 items. Because what is the point in doing any dungeon if the reward you get is stuck at a certain lvl? and you are making the dungeons so hard, most people will only do it when they reach lvl10.

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

I have to ask...are you joking? You want easier dungeon and better rewards? This is not World of warcraft. In ESO you WORK for your achievements and victories.

If it is like you say, that they level 50+ dungeons are to hard....I just like this game better! That means you need to prepare better, tactics, USE YOUR HEAD and cooperate in order to win.

Maybe it is so hard that you need the best crafted gear/boss gear, loads of skillpoints to make it? SO WHAT

This is the fun part! Beating encounters that are "too" hard

DeadlyGhost

Some of the dungeon bosses feel way out of whack compared to others which I think is the biggest problem. Damage from mobs/bosses seem to be calculated using the same boring formula strewn throughout that do not take a fight's mechanics into consideration. ie: an enemy mob's damage is calculated with the formula "Rank^2*1.5 Damage Per Attack." There is a problem with this simple formula however when adding additional multipliers to it with power attacks or more attacks per second. I think the vet group dungeons lack a handcrafted feel that makes the bosses fit better with the level. Another issue is that I feel the game takes the whole "you need the gear that drops in the dungeon, of which don't drop at any decent rate, in order to complete the dungeon" from many other MMOs. I'm not saying dumb it down, I'm saying a reduce the shear amount of damage down to a point where most decently geared people can manage the content to where players can actually earn said gear it preparation for more content like craglorn.
I like the game a lot and I enjoy the PvE content, but either the rewards need to be upped or the damage needs to be brought down. A game is about having fun while you are challenged. Getting one or two shot is not fun, it is frustrating.

Xanxarib16_ESO

no dungeons are to hard, and after watching ESO live stream trails two nights ago i know that ESO wont make any dungeons or Trails hard for Raiders like me, these bosses are just not hard at all, and players that cant complete them should probaly stop playing video games if they find a game like ESO hard!!!

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

The dungeons are indeed too easy. All you need to know is how the boss' work and it because easy as pie.

Madirishman76

CoUsT wrote: »

Based on what the title says... NO.

Man, stop it. If you are too bad to do dungeons, don't do them! Please, if you can't do them, don't ask for nerf... I want hard dungeons and I don't ask for harder one. It's mega balanced and soooooooo enjoyable.

May not be as brutal as this guy lol but totally agree. I played so many hours of this game Waiting for something really challenging that takes a good group and group balance. IMO at some point you should fail or game isn't challenging enough. If not being able to wizz through something and having to give up or search for a better group makeup on occasion bothers you then you shouldn't be doing the games most difficult content. I hope the next set are harder Myself had all three VR1-5's down the second day after I hit VR1. IMO its alot more gratifying beating something that was really hard and that's what a lot of players look for plz do not NERF.

Septimus_Magna

You could always join groups to do normal level dungeons if vet dungeons are to hard. I just completed BC on hard mode(I'm VR4), which cost me 20 soul gems to revive team mates but it was all worth it.

Tobiz

No.
Nononono.
Veteran dungeons are the most enjoyable content in the game at the moment.
I am a sword and shield, stamina based tank and dw off-dps(notsomuch), not the gandalf-mode everyone favors.
I and my group find veteran dungeons very hard. We wipe and wipe, but we learn and adjust, fine tune cc, focus dps on the right target, and win.
Its hard but its a good pain.

humpalicous

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Currently veteran dungeons seems to favor aoe based dps group and the loot you get from veteran dungeons SUCK! I am a nightblade, duel dagger, my specialty is single target dps, it seems to me there is no place for me.

I suggest making veteran dungeons easier, for example fungol grunto should be for vt lvl1 people and drop vt level 1 items. Because what is the point in doing any dungeon if the reward you get is stuck at a certain lvl? and you are making the dungeons so hard, most people will only do it when they reach lvl10.

Zeinmix pls scale the difficulty of all veteran dungeon and have the dungeons drop better reward thank you!

One Final thought I am getting the feeling ESO is not really for the casual players, especially when you make dungeons super hard only super hardcore players will be able to beat it. I mean why would you do that? most people are not that hardcore including me who happens to play 14hrs a day!

Haven't read through all of the posts here but you seem to be one (or both) of two things:
1) a kid whose mom and dad still pay the sub or 2) an immature player who wants everything served on a silver plate.

Vr content is supposed to be hard, I'm currently at vr7 and the first real obstacle I've come across is Darkshade vr dungeon. Everything else has been a breeze (have not really dived into craglorn or elden hollow yet) and you ask for a nerf? Are you joking?

Completed banished cells, spindleclutch and fungal with a pug and at vr 1-3. It was a little challenge but with SMART playing and TEAM SUPPORT you almost always make it through. So I would suggest that you learn to play for real and utilize the two things above. If so, you should have no problem coping.

Though I agree with loot system, terrible at some times. But plz, no nerf asking, you dont really understand the consequences of that appearently.

Wifeaggro13

In all honesty there is only 2 bosses that are even remotely challenging. Shada &the spider in darkshade caverns. The Vr content is extremely easy i dont know what your doing wrong but ill gladly take you and demostrate it

Reevster

Ugh how did this thread get reborn....Vr content has been nerfed to easy mode...this thread in irrelevant now.