Veteran Dungeons are not fun and badly designed! (WAY TOO HARD)

GreatPlayer

Gisgo wrote: »

Thats why they are called VETERAN dungeons.
No offense but maybe you arent enough of a veteran to clear them with ease.
Which is understandable the game is so new nobody is a real veteran (besides the titles we are all noobs wearing noob gear).

or perhaps they are badly designed and needs either nerfing or another variant for the casual players!

Gisgo

Yeah veteran dungeons for casual players... makes a lot of sense!

GreatPlayer

Gisgo wrote: »

Yeah veteran dungeons for casual players... makes a lot of sense!

and badly designed veteran dungeon nobody can beat, makes no sense!

knaveofengland

if its that hard then they in time will change it, but in general terms make it to easy then not worth doing

Gisgo

LoL just noticed your forum nick.
I give up

GreatPlayer

knaveofengland wrote: »

if its that hard then they in time will change it, but in general terms make it to easy then not worth doing

at least make the reward better, and wtf do you get for completing a veteran dungeon? sometimes you dont get anything but a stupid skill point or at best a purple item, ARE YOU *** kidding me?

Wifeaggro13

Pojunarf wrote: »

I just completed the speedruns of banished cells and spindleclucth with the following group: DK AoE destruction staff, nightblade tank, templar dual/bow, healing templar resto staff/bow (me) as VR3 to 5. We only have epic weapons, no epic set found in these dungeons. We're a guild group and have been doing all the dungeons together on teamspeak. It's clearly far from a standard pick up group.

Considering the total lack of written information about veteran dungeons, I might write some kind of guide for them (unless you point me to one). I understand that pick up groups WILL struggle to get through them. In a few weeks, even without nerfs, they should be able to clean them. People will know the bosses, know their class better and be more familiar with the game mechanics.

They can't be cleared unless most of the group knows what to do and how to play properly and it seems like a good difficulty for me. The only thing I can complain about about VR dungeons is the scaling : 3 dungeons for the first 5 ranks? I want more!

We just hit VR 1 in my static and were completely shocked that all the gear and bosses were VR5 . Was very disapointing. Prior to release they had lead everyone to believe the VR dungeons would be tierd through ranks 1 through 10 using all 16. Its looking like they ran out of time. at VR 1-3 the first three are very diffcult but you cant use any of the items and the greens that drop are still itemized for the original levels I.E. meaning all the chest and the like are dropping lvl 16 and 20 items lol.
But at veteran rank 5 they are just roll throughs with very little challenge . hnoestly ESO had me good up until this point. bugs and im balances are standard. i can live with frequent down time. but what i cant deal with is very poorly thought out end game .that resembles a disjointed mess with that looks as if they are trying toa ctuall road block the normal player so they have time to get some sort of end game in.

GreatPlayer

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Pojunarf wrote: »

I just completed the speedruns of banished cells and spindleclucth with the following group: DK AoE destruction staff, nightblade tank, templar dual/bow, healing templar resto staff/bow (me) as VR3 to 5. We only have epic weapons, no epic set found in these dungeons. We're a guild group and have been doing all the dungeons together on teamspeak. It's clearly far from a standard pick up group.

Considering the total lack of written information about veteran dungeons, I might write some kind of guide for them (unless you point me to one). I understand that pick up groups WILL struggle to get through them. In a few weeks, even without nerfs, they should be able to clean them. People will know the bosses, know their class better and be more familiar with the game mechanics.

They can't be cleared unless most of the group knows what to do and how to play properly and it seems like a good difficulty for me. The only thing I can complain about about VR dungeons is the scaling : 3 dungeons for the first 5 ranks? I want more!

We just hit VR 1 in my static and were completely shocked that all the gear and bosses were VR5 . Was very disapointing. Prior to release they had lead everyone to believe the VR dungeons would be tierd through ranks 1 through 10 using all 16. Its looking like they ran out of time. at VR 1-3 the first three are very diffcult but you cant use any of the items and the greens that drop are still itemized for the original levels I.E. meaning all the chest and the like are dropping lvl 16 and 20 items lol.
But at veteran rank 5 they are just roll throughs with very little challenge . hnoestly ESO had me good up until this point. bugs and im balances are standard. i can live with frequent down time. but what i cant deal with is very poorly thought out end game .that resembles a disjointed mess with that looks as if they are trying toa ctuall road block the normal player so they have time to get some sort of end game in.

Thank YOu! I have not tried any dungeon other then the first 3! The endgame right now is advertising on the chat box and forming a group doing world boss KILLING! this gets old and its boring. What end game should be is dungeoing, and doing dungeon over and over again for rare drops!

So zenimax why cant you get this right? how hard it is to tier the dungeons and make the dungeons drop some better *** ***!

martinhpb16_ESO

No, No, No, No to the OP

This type of nerf whining killed instances in LOTRO, that whole game is a faceroll now and people left in droves. This also did away with class specialisation, no need for healers or tanks.

Dungeons should be a challenge, of course there is going to be aoe trash, and bosses will have add waves, every good dungeon should have them.

As a nightblade you have some aoe dps and cc learn to use it on trash.

Use your single target to protect the healer.

Equip some aoe to take down boss adds while the tank focuses on the boss.

Learn your role in a group, it s different from running solo. its about synergy not individuality.

The dungeons aren't too hard at all, but the are a challenge.

I'm impressed with the dungeons so far and thank the heavens for it after the snoozefest that LOTRO has become.

Wifeaggro13

LonePirate wrote: »

The main problem here is that these VR5 dungeons should not have been placed in the VR1 zones. The second set of VR dungeons are in the VR 2 zones. They should not be putting VR5-VR10 bosses in these low level dungeons. Ideally, the dungeons should scale to the average level of the players in the group instead of being fixed to certain levels.

For everyone claiming the VR dungeons are face roll easy, I don't think you understand the definition of the term. A face roll is something you can kill with a couple of shots with no fear of death. The bosses in the VR dungeons require several minutes of coordinated efforts to defeat and there is a significant risk of death the entire time. These bosses are not face roll easy. Just because you completed it, that doesn't make it easy. There are plenty of videos out there of PTS players struggling in the VR dungeons and those players have more experience and knowledge than anyone. I don't think many of them consider this content to be easy.

If you still insist these bosses are easy, please share your tips for clearing them and also share proof of the Speed Run Achievements you have undoubtedly earned given how these dungeons are so easy for you to complete.

Completely Agree right now either they have a scaling bug or they intentionaly road blocked until VR 5 as they did not have neough time to get all 16 to tier through all 10 VR . My thinking is the later. right now they have a very lose grip on thier end game ideas and implementation

Davinna

I love the challenge of the VR dungeons. I'm so sick of MMOs catering to the crybabies and dumbing them down. There's plenty of content for "casuals". No need to nerf the content I enjoy.

If your current build/tactics don't work, think about what you can change to overcome the challenge presented to you in the dungeon. Don't ask for the game to be redesigned.

An analogy...You fail a math test, so the teacher should make it easier?

GreatPlayer

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The main problem here is that these VR5 dungeons should not have been placed in the VR1 zones. The second set of VR dungeons are in the VR 2 zones. They should not be putting VR5-VR10 bosses in these low level dungeons. Ideally, the dungeons should scale to the average level of the players in the group instead of being fixed to certain levels.

For everyone claiming the VR dungeons are face roll easy, I don't think you understand the definition of the term. A face roll is something you can kill with a couple of shots with no fear of death. The bosses in the VR dungeons require several minutes of coordinated efforts to defeat and there is a significant risk of death the entire time. These bosses are not face roll easy. Just because you completed it, that doesn't make it easy. There are plenty of videos out there of PTS players struggling in the VR dungeons and those players have more experience and knowledge than anyone. I don't think many of them consider this content to be easy.

If you still insist these bosses are easy, please share your tips for clearing them and also share proof of the Speed Run Achievements you have undoubtedly earned given how these dungeons are so easy for you to complete.

Completely Agree right now either they have a scaling bug or they intentionaly road blocked until VR 5 as they did not have neough time to get all 16 to tier through all 10 VR . My thinking is the later. right now they have a very lose grip on thier end game ideas and implementation

I too agree with this poster, the people here who say those dungeons are of right difficulty are just either elitist or liars. You see I don't lie and claim I can do something I just cant. And I feel no shame in admitting something is just too hard. I badly want ESO to succeed thats why I am advocating difficulty scaling!

GreatPlayer

Davinna wrote: »

I love the challenge of the VR dungeons. I'm so sick of MMOs catering to the crybabies and dumbing them down. There's plenty of content for "casuals". No need to nerf the content I enjoy.

If your current build/tactics don't work, think about what you can change to overcome the challenge presented to you in the dungeon. Don't ask for the game to be redesigned.

An analogy...You fail a math test, so the teacher should make it easier?

have you thought about the fact, maybe the student failed the math test because the teacher doesn't know how to teach?

Chryos

LOL, dungeons too hard? Try real hardcore MMO's like EQ1, and UO back in the days. This isn't WOW nor will we allow it to be easy like WOW. Veteran doesent mean you can do it at lvl 50 alone, you have to actually play the game. Sorry theres no mod or add-on that improves player skill! Keep it hard! Not everyone gets to play in the END GAME, and that's the way it should be, especially for a free end game exspansion.

Gisgo

GreatPlayer wrote: »

have you thought about the fact, maybe the student failed the math test because the teacher doesn't know how to teach?

I see a pattern in this thread: its never your fault.
Get better instead of expecting things to get easier for you.

Chryos

Dungeon wipes, like wiping for months on end till we killed Derek the Vindicator in Kael. 10 Clerics healing on tank, 80 plus people in an open raiding system. Once we killed him after tons of wipes, we got our foot in the door to the end game. Again, End Game access isn't for everyone, it requires special setups with character, teamwork, communication etc. If you think your going to ENDGAME without a headset, your wrong too. This adventure zone has been tested by elite players, if they can beat it, then it can be beaten. Your just not good enough at this time. That's the truth!

Davinna

GreatPlayer wrote: »

have you thought about the fact, maybe the student failed the math test because the teacher doesn't know how to teach?

The "teacher" has provided adequate instruction, in my opinion. Everything you need to be successful in VR dungeons is available in game.

Wifeaggro13

GreatPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

The main problem here is that these VR5 dungeons should not have been placed in the VR1 zones. The second set of VR dungeons are in the VR 2 zones. They should not be putting VR5-VR10 bosses in these low level dungeons. Ideally, the dungeons should scale to the average level of the players in the group instead of being fixed to certain levels.

For everyone claiming the VR dungeons are face roll easy, I don't think you understand the definition of the term. A face roll is something you can kill with a couple of shots with no fear of death. The bosses in the VR dungeons require several minutes of coordinated efforts to defeat and there is a significant risk of death the entire time. These bosses are not face roll easy. Just because you completed it, that doesn't make it easy. There are plenty of videos out there of PTS players struggling in the VR dungeons and those players have more experience and knowledge than anyone. I don't think many of them consider this content to be easy.

If you still insist these bosses are easy, please share your tips for clearing them and also share proof of the Speed Run Achievements you have undoubtedly earned given how these dungeons are so easy for you to complete.

Completely Agree right now either they have a scaling bug or they intentionaly road blocked until VR 5 as they did not have neough time to get all 16 to tier through all 10 VR . My thinking is the later. right now they have a very lose grip on thier end game ideas and implementation

I too agree with this poster, the people here who say those dungeons are of right difficulty are just either elitist or liars. You see I don't lie and claim I can do something I just cant. And I feel no shame in admitting something is just too hard. I badly want ESO to succeed thats why I am advocating difficulty scaling!

For the record i do not think they are too hard. We are trying them at VR1 with no VR gear and can kill the first three bosses in all three zones. i see that as a problem. my main issues is the are not scaling. they say VR 1- 3 but have VR 5 bosses and drop VR 5 gear, that is a major issue. personaly i dont think a Vr 1 should be able to even hit a VR 5 boss. Zeni is in some hot water here that got a lot to do to straighten their PVE end game out, i wont even coment on PVP as ive not done enough.

Chryos

For the guys complaining that they have done everything in three weeks... That's kinda your fault for rushing the game. Your not going to get 10 years of content in the first few weeks. If you didn't spend your entire waking moments in game it might last a bit longer. Stop and smell the roses for a bit. It might be a gaming addiction you have. The price you pay to rush ,rush ,rush to the top is to wait for the game and others to catch up.

Chryos

"I am just advocating what is best for the game, and right now the game is heading towards f2p. Even thought I play upwards of 12 hrs a day I don't consider myself hardcore and I don't find super hard difficulty that don't offer up any great reward fun, and casual players like myself want scaled difficulty!"

You just might have a real problem, if you spend that amount of time in game everyday. You know theres a real world out there, right?

Wifeaggro13

Chryos wrote: »

"I am just advocating what is best for the game, and right now the game is heading towards f2p. Even thought I play upwards of 12 hrs a day I don't consider myself hardcore and I don't find super hard difficulty that don't offer up any great reward fun, and casual players like myself want scaled difficulty!"

You just might have a real problem, if you spend that amount of time in game everyday. You know theres a real world out there, right?

i see what you did there. but sure the guys playing 12 hours a day are Vr10. but 50 levels is easily doable playing a few hours a day like my self. i think the real issue is there is no group content from VR 1- 5 other then cyrodil. the real main concern is tht in another few weeks when the majority of the server hits the VR they will see the massive hole in the group content.

tuntuns

At last a game where end game is designed for elite.. Im sick of all those mmo where skilless pug group is able to own everything with ease. So OP stop crying on forums, change your build, maybe even try to find ingame mentor who will provide you with some useful tips. Get a solid group and struggle for loot.
You have to understand that casual content is for casuals. Vet is for vets. Go get some skill. Beat troubling dungeon and be proud of it.

Keiffo

I cannot believe how many people are trying to say these veteran dungeons are hard.

Once you know the boss mechanics you can clear any of the first 3 veteran dungeons in 15 minutes.

BTW People who are already veteran rank and call themselves 'casual' are a joke. You are not casual. You are just bad at the game.

I use the veteran dungeons to grind Veteran Points. I use group finder, always end up in a pug, unless 1 or 2 friends are online. Even in the pugs, I explain the boss mechanics and we always clear the dungeon. There are of course a few exceptions, like maybe 1 or 2 of the group members were dropped on their head as a baby, fail at the game miserably, and come to the forums to say OMG TOO HARD I'M SO GOOD WHY CAN'T I WIN

Only through challenge can you become better. Level 1-50 was just there so you can try out all the different skills without a hint of difficulty. VR ranks are there for you to be at the point where you know some builds, some skills that have nice synergy etc. and generally know how to play the damn game.

Oh, and OP... I hope your name is referring to the playing of women and not games.

dkrleza

I am just advocating what is best for the game, and right now the game is heading towards f2p. Even thought I play upwards of 12 hrs a day I don't consider myself hardcore and I don't find super hard difficulty that don't offer up any great reward fun, and casual players like myself want scaled difficulty!

No you are advocating what's best for you. It is YOU who thinks that game is going in f2p direction. However I don't think and feel the same. So basically, your advocacy revolves around very subjective and wrong premise that game will become f2p, which is badly wrong!

martinhpb16_ESO

Chryos wrote: »

Dungeon wipes, like wiping for months on end till we killed Derek the Vindicator in Kael. 10 Clerics healing on tank, 80 plus people in an open raiding system. Once we killed him after tons of wipes, we got our foot in the door to the end game. Again, End Game access isn't for everyone, it requires special setups with character, teamwork, communication etc. If you think your going to ENDGAME without a headset, your wrong too. This adventure zone has been tested by elite players, if they can beat it, then it can be beaten. Your just not good enough at this time. That's the truth!

Totally agree. Barz and th Balrog in the Rift, LOTRO, took us months of teamwork, planned raids and trying out strategies, until we beat them. The same goes for every raid we did in there. now that has stopped in LOTRO my 40 strong guild has moved to ESO.

And you know what it is fun.

Its not about being elite is about understanding that for people who like serious raiding there is content for them.

There is plenty of content for casuals etc.

A veteran dungeon is about providing content for this playstyle. Even if my guild doesn't beat it we will keep trying over and over until we do.

Ok nerf it, and then what for the people who like this stuff?

The fact is that you can learn to play this way, in a good team, and have months and months of great fun with friends.

I'm sorry but if you don't get this you don't get raiding.

Hestia

My goodness... Must you bring in your whinging across this entire forum?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/83757/eso-game-designers-pls-read-veteran-dungeons-way-too-hard#latest

Like I have kept suggesting to you:

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

LonePirate

tuntuns wrote: »

At last a game where end game is designed for elite.. Im sick of all those mmo where skilless pug group is able to own everything with ease. So OP stop crying on forums, change your build, maybe even try to find ingame mentor who will provide you with some useful tips. Get a solid group and struggle for loot.
You have to understand that casual content is for casuals. Vet is for vets. Go get some skill. Beat troubling dungeon and be proud of it.

I could understand and tolerate this viewpoint if this was a free to play game. This is a subscription game and one subscriber's monthly fee is no better or no worse than another subscriber's monthly fee.

I don't mind progressive level entry requirements; but all of this game's content should be enjoyable and accessible by all players. No portion of it except for meaningless titles or a slot on a leaderboard should be the exclusive domain of so-called elite players. It is bad enough that the Emperor skill line is out of reach for 99% of the player base. This game does not need more of this restrictive and unobtainable content:

Gisgo

LonePirate wrote: »

tuntuns wrote: »

At last a game where end game is designed for elite.. Im sick of all those mmo where skilless pug group is able to own everything with ease. So OP stop crying on forums, change your build, maybe even try to find ingame mentor who will provide you with some useful tips. Get a solid group and struggle for loot.
You have to understand that casual content is for casuals. Vet is for vets. Go get some skill. Beat troubling dungeon and be proud of it.

I could understand and tolerate this viewpoint if this was a free to play game. This is a subscription game and one subscriber's monthly fee is no better or no worse than another subscriber's monthly fee.

I don't mind progressive level entry requirements; but all of this game's content should be enjoyable and accessible by all players. No portion of it except for meaningless titles or a slot on a leaderboard should be the exclusive domain of so-called elite players. It is bad enough that the Emperor skill line is out of reach for 99% of the player base. This game does not need more of this restrictive and I obtainable content:

TL;DR you want the game to be 100% easy mode.
Hence boring.

No thanks.

While my 15 bucks arent worth more than yours, yours arent worth more than mine, and the game shouldnt cater to YOUR playstyle exclusively.

There is content for everyone, veterans and newbies, and thats how i like it.

On a side note do you really think everyone should have access to the emperor skill line? I mean... seriously... just think about it.

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

tuntuns wrote: »

At last a game where end game is designed for elite.. Im sick of all those mmo where skilless pug group is able to own everything with ease. So OP stop crying on forums, change your build, maybe even try to find ingame mentor who will provide you with some useful tips. Get a solid group and struggle for loot.
You have to understand that casual content is for casuals. Vet is for vets. Go get some skill. Beat troubling dungeon and be proud of it.

I could understand and tolerate this viewpoint if this was a free to play game. This is a subscription game and one subscriber's monthly fee is no better or no worse than another subscriber's monthly fee.

I don't mind progressive level entry requirements; but all of this game's content should be enjoyable and accessible by all players. No portion of it except for meaningless titles or a slot on a leaderboard should be the exclusive domain of so-called elite players. It is bad enough that the Emperor skill line is out of reach for 99% of the player base. This game does not need more of this restrictive and I obtainable content:

TL;DR you want the game to be 100% easy mode.
Hence boring.

No thanks.

While my 15 bucks arent worth more than yours, yours arent worth more than mine, and the game shouldnt cater to YOUR playstyle exclusively.

There is content for everyone, veterans and newbies, and thats how i like it.

On a side note do you really think everyone should have access to the emperor skill line? I mean... seriously... just think about it.

I think everyone should have the opportunity to be Emperor and that is clearly not the case at all. I have no personal interest in becoming Emperor; but it is plainly obvious that some guilds and factions have made it impossible for many very good and dedicated players to achieve this skill line and title. You obviously do not understand that and you feel these people deserve to be screwed out of content they are paying for. Reducing campaign durations from 90 days to 7 days and preventing someone from being crowned Emperor more than once a month would go a long way towards opening this skill to more people without nerfing the content. I don't consider myself to be a good player and I have never asked for content to be nerfed. I simply want (1) content that is fair for all, (2) rewards that are proportional to the effort and time expended and (3) a game that everyone has an equal chance of accessing given how we are all paying the same amount to play it.

What the elitists on here fail to recognize is that the more content that is added to this game that caters only to people who think they are elite players, the faster this game will lose subscribers and the sooner content updates will cease altogether. Would you rather have plenty of constantly expanding content which everyone can access and experience? Or do you want a fixed amount of elitists-only content that never expands because it is not financially viable to create it? This choice is an easy one with any common sense who actually enjoys this game.

I'm currently VR1 with 99% of game time spent in solo gameplay without the benefit of questing or dungeon running with other people. Hard work has gotten me to where I am so don't talk to me about me about wanting this game to be easier when I have not made any such claim.

Gisgo

LonePirate wrote: »

I think everyone should have the opportunity to be Emperor and that is clearly not the case at all.

I stopped reading here.
The opportunity is there, for everyone.
You want everything handed without effort, and everyone disagreeing is, of course, an "elitist".