I think adding justice PVP in a specific way would be easy to implement, unexploitable and allows players to be "safe".
- If a player incurs a large bounty, 1000? they are added to bounty board (server side list of players)
- Bounty hunters have to go to a bounty board to get quest to kill x criminals
- All currently killable criminals status is shown with an icon by their name and they appear yellow highlighted to you now (if you signed up to bounty board quest)
- Kill players and return to bounty board to get points towards a title based skill line or some other rewards
Gold or other rewards can be tricky to implement sure, because of exploits and having friends let you kill them on purpose. But putting timers on players being able to reappear on the bounty list would help to curb that. After all, not all crime is reported and posted instantly.
And you can technically exploit AP and have friends kill you over and over in cyrodiil, but code is already implemented and timers to curb that.
Add in the tutorials tooltips reminders that you will be killable soon with your current bounty etc.
You can already witness people killing innocents or running from guards in the city right now! Get that PVE out of my cities if you don't want PVP in the cities!
So a few extra encounters of players killing criminals while you are crafting is not going to be that much different, and only add to the immersion and interest IMO.
With this idea you won't accidentally steal a few things next to the guild trader and be insta killed. And if you want to participate you can get cool titles by hunting for criminals or maybe some rewards too.
So basically use all of the mechanics and models that are already in the game, make one icon and tweak some code.
And BTW, Thanks for the vid LEFTY!
The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
Short version of Zenimax' statement is: "sorry, we're not capable of making it happen". In @Lefty_Lucy 's words: "We cannot do it right, so we won't do it at all". It's an admission of defeat. I'm not sure there's anything left to discuss. I voted I was in favour, but that's going by the assumption they could get it right, but I'm afraid that's a purely hypothetical situation.
Yes, but that's part of the reason for this thread. I don't think anyone here believes the justice system pvp will be brought back, even if we hope. That doesn't mean we can try to force ZoS to realize they have a playerbase with ideas that can help them if they'd only communicate. Maybe in the end they'd feel it still wouldn't fit, and that's fine. What irks so many of us is that they just give up or take the lazy route on things when simply talking to a few knowledgeable people could help things. Instead we're constantly left in the dark until they drop these bombs on us.
Short version of Zenimax' statement is: "sorry, we're not capable of making it happen". In @Lefty_Lucy 's words: "We cannot do it right, so we won't do it at all". It's an admission of defeat. I'm not sure there's anything left to discuss. I voted I was in favour, but that's going by the assumption they could get it right, but I'm afraid that's a purely hypothetical situation.
Yes, but that's part of the reason for this thread. I don't think anyone here believes the justice system pvp will be brought back, even if we hope. That doesn't mean we can try to force ZoS to realize they have a playerbase with ideas that can help them if they'd only communicate. Maybe in the end they'd feel it still wouldn't fit, and that's fine. What irks so many of us is that they just give up or take the lazy route on things when simply talking to a few knowledgeable people could help things. Instead we're constantly left in the dark until they drop these bombs on us.
If by knowledgeable people you mean skilled developers, well that is indeed something you can question, you know, as a matter of policy. Wy don't ZoS have the required capacity to make this happen?
I really hope you do not mean players. The only thing player input is good for is reporting back how theory works out in practice and perhaps some generic concepts or tiny details. Not game mechanics. Whoever here thinks themselves qualified to tell developers how to implement stuff is out of touch with reality.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
Had the option been there my answer would have been "I would have liked to see it happen, but I do not believe ZoS can pull it off"
Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Bring it into Cyrodiil first! Players can check the bounty board on other players in their campaign that have bounties on their head. If they kill them, they collect.
Sorry Alucardo but that's nonsensical. There are 2 places in Tamriel where justice system doesn't apply : Cyrodiil and Coldharbour.
In Cyrodiil, because it's a war zone. Law/Justice don't apply in war zones (that's even imho the basic definition of war... )
In Coldharbour because it's not on Nirn, and the daedra certainly don't care about Nirn laws and their reinforcement.
As convenient as it could appear technically to have the PvP part of justice system be implemented in Cyrodiil, it makes no sense story-wise.
Remember a couple of pages back when I said the community sucks and don't want to understand? Yeah. I'll let that sink inLefty_Lucy wrote: »Why do you think the PvP portion of the justice systme would work like that?... Ugh!
This is so disappointing.
Dude, it'd be an OPT-IN system. If you don't turn it on, nothing will change for you. It's really that simple.NateAssassin wrote: »Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.
NateAssassin wrote: »Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD
What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
NateAssassin wrote: »Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD
What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?
Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
Hence why the idea of having a board with wanted posters is a good idea. Only one player can interact with a poster, once they accept the bounty, no one else can go after the same player.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
Hence why the idea of having a board with wanted posters is a good idea. Only one player can interact with a poster, once they accept the bounty, no one else can go after the same player.
You dont have all the facts to make this claim. Im not going to argue with you over this. If thats what youre looking for. Sod off.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.
I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.
I think IC is a lot of fun. And I'm a PvEer who sucks at PvP.
If it is "impossible" they should not have promised and advertised it as something that was already designed.
And I'm more than ready to accept limitations but I can see a couple of suggestions here than look very doable.
.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD
What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?
Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).