Justice System PvP - Please explain exactly WHY you are for / against this content!

Bazeric · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

It would be a fun thing to have. I think it could work pretty simply too, here's my idea.

Make the Justice System Opt-in (like the attack NPCs setting toggle) and reward/punish those who choose to join accordingly.
PVE'rs Don't have to join in, and as a result might not get what "balanced" benefits come from choosing to join in,
and PVP'rs can go wild and murder/hunt/apprehend/whatever until the guar(pl? guars?) come home.

I guess ZOS just really needs to figure out how to deal with the crafting station problem they mentioned in some ESOLive ages ago... or whatever.

BringOnThePVEZoneLagOops how'd that get there?
But also, Fix the broken stuff that is still in the game in a timely manner, just so we have our priorities straight.

Magdalina · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

@Lefty_Lucy awww man, it's so nice to see people like you are still around ESO somewhere! This almost makes one feel some hope for the game

Thanks for a damn well-written post and all that...well, niceness? It's kinda hard to not slip into being all bitter and passively aggressive for all ZOS does and what some people say but you seem to manage, that's admireable. /bow

I hardly ever PvP and I'm admittedly bad at it(even as easy mode magicka sorc - do you know how easy it is to streak off bridges and walls?!>.> <.<) but I think this system could be great fun IF implemented properly. And it's yet another broken promise now. Not surprising, but frustrating nonetheless.

phairdon · January 2016

zoltarg wrote: »

I think adding justice PVP in a specific way would be easy to implement, unexploitable and allows players to be "safe".
If a player incurs a large bounty, 1000? they are added to bounty board (server side list of players)

Bounty hunters have to go to a bounty board to get quest to kill x criminals

All currently killable criminals status is shown with an icon by their name and they appear yellow highlighted to you now (if you signed up to bounty board quest)

Kill players and return to bounty board to get points towards a title based skill line or some other rewards

Gold or other rewards can be tricky to implement sure, because of exploits and having friends let you kill them on purpose. But putting timers on players being able to reappear on the bounty list would help to curb that. After all, not all crime is reported and posted instantly.

And you can technically exploit AP and have friends kill you over and over in cyrodiil, but code is already implemented and timers to curb that.

Add in the tutorials tooltips reminders that you will be killable soon with your current bounty etc.

You can already witness people killing innocents or running from guards in the city right now! Get that PVE out of my cities if you don't want PVP in the cities!

So a few extra encounters of players killing criminals while you are crafting is not going to be that much different, and only add to the immersion and interest IMO.

With this idea you won't accidentally steal a few things next to the guild trader and be insta killed. And if you want to participate you can get cool titles by hunting for criminals or maybe some rewards too.

So basically use all of the mechanics and models that are already in the game, make one icon and tweak some code.

And BTW, Thanks for the vid LEFTY!

Trying to be neutral about this. Do like the idea of a bounty board. Also like the idea of having a toggle feature, so players can opt out.

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

XANTITHESISX · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

I am in favor of the Justice System and the biggest example I can see that has not really been brought up in this thread (that I can see) is Treason. Anyone in Cyrodil that aids another faction should be labeled a traitor and brought to justice. They deserved to be KoS. The fact that there are players getting away with it with 0 penalty should be considered an exploit in itself. Every action should have a consequence.

I am not sure what exploit the DEV Team is worried about. If they are worried about someone stealing a loaf of bread over and over while another player racks up some form of reward point system for killing him over and over then simple…. Add a limit or some form of diminishing return system to not make it worth the time and effort to exploit it.

I agree with LeftLucy that there would be no exploit if it is done right. I think most of us that care about the game would agree that if we had to choose between having the Justice System “right or right now” that we would say “Right”
If it can’t be done right then do not do it.

phairdon · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.

Muizer · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Anzriel wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Short version of Zenimax' statement is: "sorry, we're not capable of making it happen". In @Lefty_Lucy 's words: "We cannot do it right, so we won't do it at all". It's an admission of defeat. I'm not sure there's anything left to discuss. I voted I was in favour, but that's going by the assumption they could get it right, but I'm afraid that's a purely hypothetical situation.

Yes, but that's part of the reason for this thread. I don't think anyone here believes the justice system pvp will be brought back, even if we hope. That doesn't mean we can try to force ZoS to realize they have a playerbase with ideas that can help them if they'd only communicate. Maybe in the end they'd feel it still wouldn't fit, and that's fine. What irks so many of us is that they just give up or take the lazy route on things when simply talking to a few knowledgeable people could help things. Instead we're constantly left in the dark until they drop these bombs on us.

If by knowledgeable people you mean skilled developers, well that is indeed something you can question, you know, as a matter of policy. Wy don't ZoS have the required capacity to make this happen?

I really hope you do not mean players. The only thing player input is good for is reporting back how theory works out in practice and perhaps some generic concepts or tiny details. Not game mechanics. Whoever here thinks themselves qualified to tell developers how to implement stuff is out of touch with reality.

Anzriel · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Muizer wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Short version of Zenimax' statement is: "sorry, we're not capable of making it happen". In @Lefty_Lucy 's words: "We cannot do it right, so we won't do it at all". It's an admission of defeat. I'm not sure there's anything left to discuss. I voted I was in favour, but that's going by the assumption they could get it right, but I'm afraid that's a purely hypothetical situation.

Yes, but that's part of the reason for this thread. I don't think anyone here believes the justice system pvp will be brought back, even if we hope. That doesn't mean we can try to force ZoS to realize they have a playerbase with ideas that can help them if they'd only communicate. Maybe in the end they'd feel it still wouldn't fit, and that's fine. What irks so many of us is that they just give up or take the lazy route on things when simply talking to a few knowledgeable people could help things. Instead we're constantly left in the dark until they drop these bombs on us.

If by knowledgeable people you mean skilled developers, well that is indeed something you can question, you know, as a matter of policy. Wy don't ZoS have the required capacity to make this happen?

I really hope you do not mean players. The only thing player input is good for is reporting back how theory works out in practice and perhaps some generic concepts or tiny details. Not game mechanics. Whoever here thinks themselves qualified to tell developers how to implement stuff is out of touch with reality.

I don't mean have players develop content, I mean use players to bounce ideas off of, like some of those in this thread. Wholesale development should absolutely be left to talented game developers. I agree.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

phairdon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.

I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?

wayfarerx · January 2016

Muizer wrote: »

Had the option been there my answer would have been "I would have liked to see it happen, but I do not believe ZoS can pull it off"

This would have been my vote as well. It could have been cool but in reality it would probably have been broken beyond repair.

NateAssassin · January 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.

srfrogg23 · January 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Bring it into Cyrodiil first! Players can check the bounty board on other players in their campaign that have bounties on their head. If they kill them, they collect.

Sorry Alucardo but that's nonsensical. There are 2 places in Tamriel where justice system doesn't apply : Cyrodiil and Coldharbour.

In Cyrodiil, because it's a war zone. Law/Justice don't apply in war zones (that's even imho the basic definition of war... )
In Coldharbour because it's not on Nirn, and the daedra certainly don't care about Nirn laws and their reinforcement.

As convenient as it could appear technically to have the PvP part of justice system be implemented in Cyrodiil, it makes no sense story-wise.

Hmm... I don't know, I think this Alucardo guy might be on to something. Cyrodiil is already a PVP zone so if someone wracks up a bounty they shouldn't be shocked when other players target them for termination. It really might not be a bad way to implement PVP into the justice system by keeping that aspect of it to only the world PVP zone. Not a bad way to compromise, imo.

As a side note: there actually does a fairly robust and complex set of rules for how war can be conducted in the real world called The Geneva Conventions as well as most countries having their own Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC) detailing what is considered an allowable target, which weapons are acceptable vs inhumane, how POWs are to be treated, etc. This is actually how people can be put on trial for War Crimes. I don't really see having the justice system being implemented into Cyrodiil PVP would be such a far fetched idea.

Alucardo · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Lefty_Lucy wrote: »

Why do you think the PvP portion of the justice systme would work like that?... Ugh!

This is so disappointing.

Remember a couple of pages back when I said the community sucks and don't want to understand? Yeah. I'll let that sink in

Alucardo · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

NateAssassin wrote: »

Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.

Dude, it'd be an OPT-IN system. If you don't turn it on, nothing will change for you. It's really that simple.

Chori · January 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

No because the game has lot of things that need to be fixed before we need anything else that can potentially be broken or could cause more broken stuff to come to surface.

No thanks, fix the game first.

Anzriel · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

NateAssassin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.

"Opt-in" as in if you don't opt-in you don't need to worry about players if you steal something, only the NPC guard. Adding the opt in is there to keep people who want nothing to do with the pvp portion safe from other players. Basically if you don't opt-in, absolutely nothing would change for you whatsoever. If you DO opt-in you then have to worry about players as well as guards. It's about giving those who want options to have it, while still protecting players who want nothing to do with it.

Sharakor · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

the only reason im vouching for that update is because i want to shame and humiliate rpg'ers and then make videos of shoveling their dead bodies

Tandor · January 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD

What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?

Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).

phairdon · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.

If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.

But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.

The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.

I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?

Yes, absolutely. The only thing that bothered me about the system as it is. Such is life, the bounties were not large.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

phairdon · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

Hence why the idea of having a board with wanted posters is a good idea. Only one player can interact with a poster, once they accept the bounty, no one else can go after the same player.

DorianDragonRaze · January 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Explained there:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2592990/#Comment_2592990

Acrolas · January 2016

It was flawed from the start.

You'd have people hiding/camping the outlaws refuge sites, meaning most people with bounties would just log off. Especially people who accidentally take one thing or accidentally touch a locked door.
When the intelligent solution to a situation is, "don't play the game," it's counter-productive to the positive experience you're trying to build. Most people don't want to be punished in their hobbies or leisure. There are already "hobbies" specially designed for that if that's your thing.

Moreover, the type of enforcement used would either reduce blatant crime, or make people more effective criminals. So it's work on an update that would be used very little relative to the rest of the game. Basically about as useless to the player's overall experience as the reworked Coldharbour tutorial.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

NateAssassin wrote: »

Hmm, you can easily run away from a guard even at level 10, a VR16 player not so much.

Correct (even if I don't consider running away from guards as being an easy thing for a magicka player... ). But even then, you'll have to pay your bounty to someone.

Anzriel · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD

What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?

Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).

The I, and I believe Lefty were proposing was the if you don't opt-in to the justice pvp, nothing would change for you. You could steal, or break into a lock-box with no more consequences than you have now. The NPC guards. Only by opting in could someone try to pk you.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

The idea probably is dead, but honestly it's more of a situation where we are lamenting the loss, and tossing around ideas that could have allowed it to work without bothering the players who wanted nothing to do with the open-world aspect of it. In a way it is also a means to vent frustration at another aspect of the game that some of us felt would have added to experience and re-sparked the love for the game that has been chipped away. So at this point we have little left but to discuss what we felt could have been, and well on the very off chance they changed their mind, there are ideas here that could at least be considered. I see little downside really.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

phairdon wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

Hence why the idea of having a board with wanted posters is a good idea. Only one player can interact with a poster, once they accept the bounty, no one else can go after the same player.

You dont have all the facts to make this claim. Im not going to argue with you over this. If thats what youre looking for. Sod off.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

I think IC is a lot of fun. And I'm a PvEer who sucks at PvP.
If it is "impossible" they should not have promised and advertised it as something that was already designed.
And I'm more than ready to accept limitations but I can see a couple of suggestions here than look very doable.

.

phairdon · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

Hence why the idea of having a board with wanted posters is a good idea. Only one player can interact with a poster, once they accept the bounty, no one else can go after the same player.

You dont have all the facts to make this claim. Im not going to argue with you over this. If thats what youre looking for. Sod off.

What on earth are you talking about? The board was another posters idea. One which I though was a good idea too. As for whether the justice system was a good idea or otherwise, I am neutral about. You mentioned about a horde of players chasing down a player with a bounty, the idea of a board with wanted posters would solve this, if only one player could track the bounty from each poster. None of this matters though, as the 2nd part is not being introduced.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

At this point this discussion is moot. They made their decision after months of tinkering with the system. I PvP my self and saw the whole Justice PvP as nothing more than fighting a Guard that could be killed. The biggest problem I imagine they had trying to make this work would of been the possibility of a horde of players chasing down anyone with a bounty. It be the same issue they faced with when deciding to make the guards invincible. Players would exploit it. The Justice PvP portion of the system would of possibly killed any sort of fun you could have stealing. Im sure there are people in this thread that would of thought this would of been SO FUN, the same type of people that thought IC was going to be fun and couldnt wait to gank them some PvEers.

I honestly dont fault ZOS for dropping this. Because for them, it wasnt going to pan out. And well for us, we'd probably hated it in whatever form they might have tried to push to live. This also brings something that every player can take away from all of this. Even in video games, sometimes things that are promised or talked about with certainty cant be done. Sometimes we get told something is coming or being worked on and we forget that that doesnt mean its a 100% going to happen. There are going to be times we as the community will just have to accept the limits of the game.

I think IC is a lot of fun. And I'm a PvEer who sucks at PvP.
If it is "impossible" they should not have promised and advertised it as something that was already designed.
And I'm more than ready to accept limitations but I can see a couple of suggestions here than look very doable.

.

We as the community perceive anything they say as a promise. They said they were going to roll out the system in waves. Theyve been working on this portion of the system since at least the initial introduction of the Justice System in March/April of last year. They never promised that it would pan out. Simply that this was something they wanted and they were willing to put man hours and budget towards it. Never once did they say it was already designed. Or it have been released.

They never advertised it as it was definitely happening. Thats what the big build up to DLCs are for with all the wallpapers, short video clips, talking points on ESO Live and overviews posted on the front page.

If this community cant accept that somethings wont pan out. They shouldnt play this game, or any video game for that matter. Because for all the 'I can accept limitations' crap people spew. They always end it with 'But I can see where they went wrong and how it could of been so much better with my omnipotent point of view that has no experience in coding or video game building'.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD

What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?

Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).

What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.