It's not always damage or killing things. For me, its more about utility, and that utility we have is very "limited".
Lets take a quick look;

-Eclipse is limited to one target and immunity free.
-Repentance is limited to have dead bodies around you.
-Channeled Focus is limited for 8 seconds outside of the rune.
-Extremely limited shield that can't even absorb damage of a light attack.
-Stamina return from spear is limited for friendly players only, caster gets nothing.
-The only aoe cc we have, sun fire snare effect is limited to 40% where most other snares are 60%.
-Empowering Sweep (aka dmg reduction ulti) is limited to 5 meters which actually i believe it is only 2 meters.
-Damaging skills are limited for only channeled and hard casted/time bomb spells. No good insta damage options.
-No aoe hard cc.
and the list goes on...

The only good thing left in templar class is BoL (and purify) and yet people can still dare to complain about it. It's hilarious. Some others say(looking at you @Ampnode) templars must remain in support role, but they often forget that the class has so many flaws that it can't even use its full potential as a support.

I personally refuse to being a healbot and I know nobody in here want that. But we dont want easy mode ambush v2 skills. We just want fixes and improvements to our broken, overnerfed, removed, limited and never used skills. You see that? 5 different categories of uselessness out of 15 class skills. That's the problem. And I didnt even get into the passives, it's a whole another story.

maxjapank wrote: »

And if Toppling charge needs a fix, it just needs to work, period. I think we are all so tired of pressing the skill to have the sound go off but going nowhere. You keep pressing it over and over and over..and nothing happens. Or..the worst is that occasional time when it locks us out of using any skill until we can chug a potion, which for some reason fixes it.

This, this and a million times this. Was using this skill in WGT the other day during the third boss fight to zoom from portal to portal-- only, after the third use, my skills completely locked for the remainder of the fight. And by "the remainder of the fight", I mean the next 15 seconds before my team wiped as I was our healer and was powerless to heal or do anything at all through the waves of adds flooding through the open portals.

Didn't realize that popping a potion "fixes" it, though. Will give it a try if I ever decide to slot Toppling Charge again before its real fix!

I like how that guy really thinks the other three classes can't top a Templar healer when I've seen it regularly lol

Damn scrub, gtfo

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I like how that guy really thinks the other three classes can't top a Templar healer when I've seen it regularly lol

Damn scrub, gtfo

Well sorry for being scrub... You know i've just played PvP since beta....

Other classes arent that bad, but In every scenario possible Templar just stomps the others as a healer. Heck I can survive 10 guys ganking me by just healing and shieling my self with my templar abilities. No other class can really do that with only healing abilities... Shield or no. A DK needs Dragon blood and Dragonic Armour, and dragon scales to survive such a thing for example.

Soris wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I like how that guy really thinks the other three classes can't top a Templar healer when I've seen it regularly lol

Damn scrub, gtfo

Well sorry for being scrub... You know i've just played PvP since beta....

Other classes arent that bad, but In every scenario possible Templar just stomps the others as a healer. Heck I can survive 10 guys ganking me by just healing and shieling my self with my templar abilities. No other class can really do that with only healing abilities... Shield or no. A DK needs Dragon blood and Dragonic Armour, and dragon scales to survive such a thing for example.

EP:
Vesari - Woof Elf NB VR3
Erenwyn - High Elf Templar VR2
'Elayne - High Elf Sorc 20
Erenweyn - High Elf Templar 17
Sax-In-Da-City - Dark Elf Dragon Knight 4

DC:
Ammir - Redguard Templar 35
Thallia - Breton NB 25

Your sig is very informative that you don't know what you are talking. You can maybe do that in BWB with a level 40-49 templar against level 20 gankers, but this is about vr16. And good luck tanking 10 gankers with your class shield.

I only play PvP pretty much, no joy in PvE forme. Oh and do you know what deleting Characters is?, Im happy to explain it to you if you do not understand. These are just currect characters im leveling up pretty much through PvP only. Someitmes a littel grind thrown in.

Plus All you are basicall saying is that my Arguemtn doesnt count at all since I dont have a current V16 account, and that Non-vet doesn't matter what so ever. Non-vet is anyways more fun I play Vet PvP aswell so dont think I only play Non-vet... because i never said that did I?

Soris wrote: »

Explain this instead.
"In every scenario possible Templar just stomps the others as a healer. Heck I can survive 10 guys ganking me by just healing and shieling my self with my templar abilities. No other class can really do that."

Its already explained, With Steadfast ward form Regeneration staff (of course other classes can use this aswell) and with all the Templar abilities from Restoring Light I can easily Survive in PvP while being Ganked by multiple Players. Other classes just cant do this as good with just the Regen Staff SKills and the few heals they might have in their skill like.

Of course a DK and easily survive such a thing aswell with all the Dmg reduction skills, Extra armour skills and regen skills etc. But what im trying to say is that Without those skills he cant do much to surive solely on heals.

Templar is just a far better option for a Healer than the other classes. Zeni obviously knew their intentions for each class as some one said above. DK - Tank, Sorc - Burst DPS mostly Magic, Nightblade - Stealthy Burst Magic or Stamina both are very good, and Templar - Healer

@ thallia

Come back when you are v16 and actually know what you are talking about.

Thallia wrote: »

"In every scenario possible Templar just stomps the others as a healer. Heck I can survive 10 guys ganking me by just healing and shieling my self with my templar abilities. No other class can really do that."

Its already explained, With Steadfast ward form Regeneration staff (of course other classes can use this aswell) and with all the Templar abilities from Restoring Light I can easily Survive in PvP while being Ganked by multiple Players. Other classes just cant do this as good with just the Regen Staff SKills and the few heals they might have in their skill like.

Of course a DK and easily survive such a thing aswell with all the Dmg reduction skills, Extra armour skills and regen skills etc. But what im trying to say is that Without those skills he cant do much to surive solely on heals.

Templar is just a far better option for a Healer than the other classes. Zeni obviously knew their intentions for each class as some one said above. DK - Tank, Sorc - Burst DPS mostly Magic, Nightblade - Stealthy Burst Magic or Stamina both are very good, and Templar - Healer

Wut? A sorcerer and NB will survive longer with that resto staff than your templar.

Thallia wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

The thing is, those so called dps classes can and do survive much better in such situations with utilising escape skills and self heals. If they are suppose to be only dps classes and templars are healers, then they should not allowed to survive more than 2 seconds in any scenario without a templar backing them by this logic.
But in reality, they perform much better in both dps and survival.

Surviving with a templar or dk is equal to your stamina pool. In this CC madness, it means you won't last long. You are not allowed to use your stamina to block or dodge, just cc break.. Your armor and resist mean nothing vs anyone who knows the mechanics. And you have a crap shield, no escape, no aoe cc, no nothing. You're just allowed to spam one or two button and expect to survive. This is not the way that it should be.

And you still claim that you can tank 10 people by yourself in vet campaigns. I doubt that. Lets do some math.
Max BoL heal I saw was close to 17k crit in full heal build with 501 cp, and only while in low health. A single wrecking blow or frags can hit for 6k noncrit with regular vr16 build. Add a light attack damage on top of that and maybe bash. Considering that so many people would punching you in a 1vX scenario that you will not able to out heal all the damage in one GCD. Heck you need to cast purify first for healing bonus which means you have to waste 2 GCD while they punching you. Unless you fight with potatoes that's not gonna happen.

Well I can agree with your mat but I have done it before, then again your math doesnt count in the fact that I can just outplay them I.e. going around corner, and back etc. which kinda means they were potatoes hehe ;P

Also Of course other classes can surivve without a templar that not what im saying, as you said they all have self heals. But thats the thing, they just excel more in self healing rather than group healing.

Come on are you seriously trying to argue against the claim that templars are just better in healing their group members than other classes?
I 've played PvP non stop since this game came out and I havent seen a single class heal as well as a Templar. Of course other classes can heal im not saying they cant. But no one can

Jon Snow of eso.
A sorc can stack shields beyond imagination and thats gives em critimmunity aswell. A templar could never heal that amount and do something else at the same time, a sorc easily can.

The Discussion was about Heals in groups, not whoever can have the most shields ;P but I agree Although DK's have massive shield power aswell!

Define massive

Zinaroth wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

All you are basicall saying is that my Arguemtn doesnt count at all since I dont have a current V16 account, and that Non-vet doesn't matter what so ever.

Sorry for being arrogant but this is pretty much correct. Balance at max level is much more important than on the way there. You not even having a VR16 yet eventhough you played since beta is a testiment to how little you know of how PvP is when you fight with classes at their maximum potential. Being on the recieving end is not the same as playing a class yourself at its max level and comparing it to others in duels etc. This thread is for experienced Templars to share their opinions on the class and if you don't even have a Templar at VR16 yet you have no basis for giving feedback on the class, and much less in participating in the discussions in this thread.

I have Had Vr16's, at the End I see no point in Continuation, so I delete them and start a new. It would be pretty riduclous to have played since beta and NOT have a Vr16 account some time along the way. Im sorry If i do not write every single character ive ever had in my Signature.

I've been playing Templar only pretty much for half a year or more, before that i would play Nb and Sorc aswell but Templar still the most, im wroking on getting my newly Vr1 Rank Tempalr to vr16, After that? in the bin she goes and a new charc get created. I know might be a bad habit of mine but hey I play how I play

abilities

sun fire spell should be based of magic damage
solar flare (dark flare morph) it does less damage than puncturing sweeps so it makes you unable to be a good range dps and if your pvping the cast times makes it useless maybe make it a channel
so many people have commented on the sun shield so ill skip (should scale of max stat)
healing ritual should be completely reworked you cant use it and be a good healer ive tried doesn't work in pve or pvp maybe taking of the cast time and and turning into a pure HoT maybe giving it stam morph
aurora javelin is to weak to use blazing spear does almost as much initial damage and the cc works better and better range
radial sweeps need better range no one ever uses it they just use dawnbreaker hit way harder and longer range

passives
balanced warrior should give spell damage aswell

class balance
needs some kind of speed passive or cc immunity affect from a spell if you are magic based you get stunned ounce as a templar your dead you cant stand your ground like dk can and shouldn't be able as well or run like nb or sorc it need to be a cross from speed and stand ground a mixed balance one since that's what they are supposed to be like

I stopped playing my Templar as much started a magic dk cuase they actually have efficient utilities and seem to do more damage they are more fun to play than just spaming a bugged spear which is very boing
if they one day will be able to compete with the other class and have a viable magic range dps I would like to play it again cause its closes a nature class that you can get which I enjoy them the most who wouldn't want to be like a priest Kynareth or y'frre

Thallia wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

All you are basicall saying is that my Arguemtn doesnt count at all since I dont have a current V16 account, and that Non-vet doesn't matter what so ever.

Sorry for being arrogant but this is pretty much correct. Balance at max level is much more important than on the way there. You not even having a VR16 yet eventhough you played since beta is a testiment to how little you know of how PvP is when you fight with classes at their maximum potential. Being on the recieving end is not the same as playing a class yourself at its max level and comparing it to others in duels etc. This thread is for experienced Templars to share their opinions on the class and if you don't even have a Templar at VR16 yet you have no basis for giving feedback on the class, and much less in participating in the discussions in this thread.

I have Had Vr16's, at the End I see no point in Continuation, so I delete them and start a new. It would be pretty riduclous to have played since beta and NOT have a Vr16 account some time along the way. Im sorry If i do not write every single character ive ever had in my Signature.

I've been playing Templar only pretty much for half a year or more, before that i would play Nb and Sorc aswell but Templar still the most, im wroking on getting my newly Vr1 Rank Tempalr to vr16, After that? in the bin she goes and a new charc get created. I know might be a bad habit of mine but hey I play how I play

You definately have the right to play how you want!

I am just saying that continually playing on a VR16 character creates a more correct picture of how the class is doing than snapshots of their performance at certain level intervals.

Low level PvP in every MMO has always been a gimmick and true balance it strived to be achieved at max level.

I cen agree with you but ESO isnt a standard MMo, Especially not in PvP. I feel there arent that many Differances between Non-Vet and Vet. Im not saying there arent any. Of course one differance being if you make a mistake, you'll probably die ahah . But Combat wise there arent Huge differances, Well I say tha lightly: CP, Set armour, etc. Those make a big differance but Skill not so much, you pretty much use the same skills in Vet as you do in Non-vet (Of course not the last skills etc.)

No. Backwater Blade is an entirely different game than VeT PvP. The battle-leveling mechanic ZoS is a very rough approximation as to how your character would translate to max level and its accuracy leaves much to be desired. I crafted a set of seducer gear for a sorcerer and my mana pool never did below 75% despite non-stop spamming spells in the IC sewers. Also, the 50% damage reduction was specifically made for the crazy high damage spikes done by max level characters with far too many champion points and yet had been implemented in Backwater Blade where damage/healing was never a problem. But the biggest issue in Backwater blade are people like me, who create non-vet alts with 501 champion points and compete against players with hardly any. It absolutely amazing ZoS allows this. The Backwater experience is totally different from VeT PvP, and I haven't even mentioned the zergball meta in vet that ZoS must balance the game around.

You may have had max level templar months and months ago, but I strongly diagree that those anachronistic memories based on a different game or your experiences at level 22 are relevant for considering the balance templars have with end-game content.

Thallia wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Explain this instead.
"In every scenario possible Templar just stomps the others as a healer. Heck I can survive 10 guys ganking me by just healing and shieling my self with my templar abilities. No other class can really do that."

Its already explained, With Steadfast ward form Regeneration staff (of course other classes can use this aswell) and with all the Templar abilities from Restoring Light I can easily Survive in PvP while being Ganked by multiple Players. Other classes just cant do this as good with just the Regen Staff SKills and the few heals they might have in their skill like.

Of course a DK and easily survive such a thing aswell with all the Dmg reduction skills, Extra armour skills and regen skills etc. But what im trying to say is that Without those skills he cant do much to surive solely on heals.

Templar is just a far better option for a Healer than the other classes. Zeni obviously knew their intentions for each class as some one said above. DK - Tank, Sorc - Burst DPS mostly Magic, Nightblade - Stealthy Burst Magic or Stamina both are very good, and Templar - Healer

So if there are intended roles... WHY is NIGHTBLADE the only class having the bigger armor buff as passive. Spamming their main dmg skill gives em the same buff, a dk and templar needs 1 active slot for???? Why is the templar regenerating from the dead when he is not supposed to kill anyone and why doesnt a nightblade regenerate from it in the first place? no, he allready has the base regen 15%. He doesnt have to kill anything and fullfill his role to get all those perks. That doesnt make any sense.

Stamplar fixes -
Remove knock back from jabs. Replace with fracture or snare. Buff damage to 170%
Increase sun shield - add expedition
Add reliable cc