Templar issues thread

Cinbri

1. Focus. Channeled Focus - i agree since it already have mana regen buff that not rooted to ground, it should get some more mobility to this morph. Restoring Focus - i thought it could restore stamina inside focus but than it won't be usefull for stamplar. It should restore it awesome class unique ground based buff. Movement is important part of pvp and for being immobile by such buffs, they granting huge advantage in return (Standart, Veil, Nova ultimates as example). We have long enough list of minor/major buffs: Evasion, Heroism, Mending, Protection, Vitality. Combination of minor or one major buff will be enough to grant advantage for staing in 5m ground aoe buff while being outnumbered. I was one of few templars who used it back it 1.5 and it was great morph before it was ruined by minor vitality buff.
2. Solar Barrage - another dead morph. Templars have Spear Shards - i.e. we can use ranged 8m aoe from safe distance where enemy in middle of aoe not caster, it can proc Burning Light damage, it has aoe dot(i.e. proc BL and serve as smaller version of Flare to reveal enemies), stun one target and most important after block nerf it perfect to sustain teammates. Noone will use Barrage i.e. rusing into middle of enemy zerg to cast it and get less damage while being endangered by enemy fire, i.e. risk much bigger than reward. And still vve have solid list of debuffs: Breach, Defile, Maim. Some of it would be awesome to this skill. Like minor Defile in contrast with major defile from Dark Flare(or even major, since dark flare has cast time to apply it but allowing to do it from safety); or any other debuffs, currently Empower doesn't make it more solid for damage dealt coz Shards Burning Light, dots+sets synergy with dots. Or make skill as i suggested as smaller templar version of proxy deto. And must be fixed short yet annoying stuck upon cast.

bikerangelo

@Zinaroth
Alright fine, I'll reiterate. And I've done maelstrom, vet wgt / icp and dragonstar, killed molag bal probably four times now, and pretty much all end game content aside from trials.
NPC's don't bash or interrupt me when I cast dark flare, NPC's don't dodge roll, use LoS or interrupt me when I cast radiant, NPC's don't use animation canceling, mobs of NPC's will sit in my sweeps aoe. That is not hard, that's just figuring out how to beat the system. There's a significant difference in difficulty on any level in the game between pvp and pve. When I'm trying to counter wb spam, 7k surprise attacks or spambush with channeled abilities, it sheds more light on Templar effectiveness than running around dungeons where mobs flock to your aoe's.

I crunch numbers in pvp. I study class builds to maximize effectiveness and I respect people who put in a lot of effort to evaluate and compile data from class abilities. What I don't respect is elitism. That's great you're in a top tier raiding guild that discovers meta mechanics, very impressive, but you need to understand that we're all trying to get the same fixes implemented. I'd appreciate a little less condescension and a little more amicable collaboration to make sure templars are viable as more than just healers.

Zinaroth

bikerangelo wrote: »

@Zinaroth
Alright fine, I'll reiterate. And I've done maelstrom, vet wgt / icp and dragonstar, killed molag bal probably four times now, and pretty much all end game content aside from trials.
NPC's don't bash or interrupt me when I cast dark flare, NPC's don't dodge roll, use LoS or interrupt me when I cast radiant, NPC's don't use animation canceling, mobs of NPC's will sit in my sweeps aoe. That is not hard, that's just figuring out how to beat the system. There's a significant difference in difficulty on any level in the game between pvp and pve. When I'm trying to counter wb spam, 7k surprise attacks or spambush with channeled abilities, it sheds more light on Templar effectiveness than running around dungeons where mobs flock to your aoe's.

I crunch numbers in pvp. I study class builds to maximize effectiveness and I respect people who put in a lot of effort to evaluate and compile data from class abilities. What I don't respect is elitism. That's great you're in a top tier raiding guild that discovers meta mechanics, very impressive, but you need to understand that we're all trying to get the same fixes implemented. I'd appreciate a little less condescension and a little more amicable collaboration to make sure templars are viable as more than just healers.

I agree with you to the extent that PvP and PvE offers different challenges in terms of how to overcome the obstables you're being faced with, but I will not agree with you that PvP somehow requires more skill than the most difficult PvE content, that is just a fallacy that doesn't create a constructive debate.

The only reason you are being met with a condescending tone is because of your original statement. I have nothing personally against you, but the attitude you were displaying in your original comment does NOT lead to a constructive debate on our class.

We both want the same thing here so let's not claim that the others way of playing the game is easier than our own. PvP requires a great set of skills to excel in, so does PvE.

I was in no way trying to be elitist, but I was using my position in the game to further my point. Everyone plays how they want and at what level they want, I am just allergic to PvPers claiming greater skill level.

bikerangelo

Zinaroth wrote: »

I agree with you to the extent that PvP and PvE offers different challenges in terms of how to overcome the obstables you're being faced with, but I will not agree with you that PvP somehow requires more skill than the most difficult PvE content, that is just a fallacy that doesn't create a constructive debate.

The only reason you are being met with a condescending tone is because of your original statement. I have nothing personally against you, but the attitude you were displaying in your original comment does NOT lead to a constructive debate on our class.

We both want the same thing here so let's not claim that the others way of playing the game is easier than our own. PvP requires a great set of skills to excel in, so does PvE.

I was in no way trying to be elitist, but I was using my position in the game to further my point. Everyone plays how they want and at what level they want, I am just allergic to PvPers claiming greater skill level.

Ok, I apologize for not being clear, I think we're on the same page now.

Khivas_Carrick

Can't let things get all caddy wompus on us now, so /bump

@ZOS_GinaBruno, I am 100% sure you know about our issues, same with everybody else, but please don't just shrug us off like you did the last few times. Templars need a redesign, badly.

Cinbri

1. Rite of Passage - healing should be 2x times stronger as it was before nerf (at least).
2. Eclipse should reflect stamina abilities if it still will be debuff with 1 cap target.
a. Total Dark should restore stamina instead of hp (templar already best healer).
3. Master Ritualist passive should be full changed and restore small amount of magicka/stamina upon casting Restoring Light abilities, to prevent stacking kagrenac templars. Or make it work as current Restoring Spirit and make last one work as it was in beta.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Rite of Passage - healing should be 2x times stronger as it was before nerf (at least).
2. Eclipse should reflect stamina abilities if it still will be debuff with 1 cap target.
a. Total Dark should restore stamina instead of hp (templar already best healer).
3. Master Ritualist passive should be full changed and restore small amount of magicka/stamina upon casting Restoring Light abilities, to prevent stacking kagrenac templars. Or make it work as current Restoring Spirit and make last one work as it was in beta.

number 3 is not needed, it is something that make the templar class better than the rest. we already don't have enough of that sort of thing. plus what about all the temps that don't wear that set? no. don't ask for nerfs. just add the restore small amount of magicka/stamina to it.

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Rite of Passage - healing should be 2x times stronger as it was before nerf (at least).
2. Eclipse should reflect stamina abilities if it still will be debuff with 1 cap target.
a. Total Dark should restore stamina instead of hp (templar already best healer).
3. Master Ritualist passive should be full changed and restore small amount of magicka/stamina upon casting Restoring Light abilities, to prevent stacking kagrenac templars. Or make it work as current Restoring Spirit and make last one work as it was in beta.

I think more needs to happen with Rite of Passage than just a healing increase. We have enough healing in our arsenal, a healing ultimate is abundant. I am thinking an ulti that works more like utility. Maybe something that helps us survive or restore rescources? A bubble protecting us from all harmful effects for 5 seconds and restores X amount of rescources?

I think Eclipse should just get the DK treatment and be a buff that origins on the Templar instead of being something cast on the enemy. But reflect is getting an overhaul in next patch so we will see what they make of it, the reflect mechanic that is. Agree with the Total Dark morph.

Agree with changing the Master Ritualist passive, it is almost useless. Give us something that helps us manage our rescources instead of a silly gimmicky ress passive. A lot of passives from the Templar trees need a reword though. Mending and Focused Healing should work on ALL healing, not just the Templar heals, for example.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

3. Rite of Passage - healing should be 2x times stronger as it was before nerf (at least).
4. Eclipse should reflect stamina abilities if it still will be debuff with 1 cap target.
a. Total Dark should restore stamina instead of hp (templar already best healer).
5. Master Ritualist passive should be full changed and restore small amount of magicka/stamina upon casting Restoring Light abilities, to prevent stacking kagrenac templars. Or make it work as current Restoring Spirit and make last one work as it was in beta.

number 3 is not needed, it is something that make the templar class better than the rest. we already don't have enough of that sort of thing. plus what about all the temps that don't wear that set? no. don't ask for nerfs. just add the restore small amount of magicka/stamina to it.

It is not a nerf. He wants to replace a useless passive that only goes towards ressing other players with a passive that helps us manage our rescources. Something Templars are in dire need of. He is basically saying the same as you.

Cinbri

I thought of same @Zinaroth . Problem with this ult is that it as almost death sentence in pvp coz impossible to move and not needed in pve, and in compare with Barswarm its pale. Would be nice if ultimate from Restoring Light tree would really restore something. While Practiced Inacantation could get increased healing (Major Mending) for 6 sec, Remembrance could restore resources to caster every 1 sec for 4sec. So people will decide - self-sustain or group-oriented morph.
Agree about Eclipse but i doubt zos will change it skill to be copy of dk skill. However current debuff reflect is totally broken and proc some annoying bugs like hp desync.
About Master Ritualist - templar in kagrenac is totally broken in pvp(i know zos doesn't care about pvp, but still), and in another thread there were suggestions to either 1. change set bonus - bad idea as many non-templars using it now coz fast ressurect. 2.forbid to stack kagrenac and Ritualist passive - nerf of templars who use this set, obviously bad idea. 3.So i suggest to change templar passive - from all 3 choices i voting for this as it won't negatively affect other players(1) nor templar(2)[ofcourse ressing faster than enemy's projectile can reach you is fun but not balanced], instead of it we could get some sustain passive that we totally lack of and that doesn't require someone corpse near.

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

I thought of same @Zinaroth . Problem with this ult is that it as almost death sentence in pvp coz impossible to move and not needed in pve, and in compare with Barswarm its pale. Would be nice if ultimate from Restoring Light tree would really restore something. While Practiced Inacantation could get increased healing (Major Mending) for 6 sec, Remembrance could restore resources to caster every 1 sec for 4sec. So people will decide - self-sustain or group-oriented morph.
Agree about Eclipse but i doubt zos will change it skill to be copy of dk skill. However current debuff reflect is totally broken and proc some annoying bugs like hp desync.
About Master Ritualist - templar in kagrenac is totally broken in pvp(i know zos doesn't care about pvp, but still), and in another thread there were suggestions to either 1. change set bonus - bad idea as many non-templars using it now coz fast ressurect. 2.forbid to stack kagrenac and Ritualist passive - nerf of templars who use this set, obviously bad idea. 3.So i suggest to change templar passive - from all 3 choices i voting for this as it won't negatively affect other players(1) nor templar(2)[ofcourse ressing faster than enemy's projectile can reach you is fun but not balanced], instead of it we could get some sustain passive that we totally lack of and that doesn't require someone corpse near.

I might be underestimating how broken Master Ritualist + Kagrenac's Hope 5 piece if when it comes to mass ressing in PvP. Haven't felt it being an issue at all but it is a valid point and I have seen people complain about it on forums. I am all for removing all ress bonuses on that passive and making it a passive that helps with rescource management. It is much needed for Templar in PvE and in PvP when it comes to 1v1 or 1vX. Being able to ress another player a second or two faster doesn't make a lot of difference in PvE and it certainly isn't helping the Templar solo player, might come in handy if fighting in groups, but so will rescource management, which we currently lack.

Soris

Zinaroth wrote: »

I think Eclipse should just get the DK treatment and be a buff that origins on the Templar instead of being something cast on the enemy. But reflect is getting an overhaul in next patch so we will see what they make of it, the reflect mechanic that is. Agree with the Total Dark morph.

There is a suggestion about eclipse in pvp subforum by @Solariken that doesn't grab much attention. I think it is pretty damn good.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2582730

Abob

It seems that if you use eclipse on sorc's atro and use rite of passage while the bubble is active, the cc inmunity disappears and you can be cc'ed.

Also, please fix the dk skill that can interrupt rite of Passage.

danno8

[Discussion copy/pasted from another thread]

So I just did a quick test on the PTS....

Without Enduring Rays:
RD ticked 6 times for 1257 damage each tick (this was before they changed it to 1 tick per second)
Reflective Light ticked 3 times for 723 damage per tick.

With Enduring Rays:
RD ticked 6 times for 1257 damage per tick - no change at all, although it does state it is a longer channel at 3.4 seconds
RL ticked 4 times at 723 damage per tick - you get 1 extra tick

If RD is actually lasting .5 seconds longer but not giving any extra ticks or damage then Enduring Rays is making RD a DPS loss compared to not getting the passive.

Reflective Light does receive 1 extra tick at the same damage, making it DPS neutral although one could argue better on resource management (like that matters at all).

If anyone does not understand why Templars complain about terrible passives that have terrible synergy please link them to this post!

Zinaroth

danno8 wrote: »

[Discussion copy/pasted from another thread]

So I just did a quick test on the PTS....

Without Enduring Rays:
RD ticked 6 times for 1257 damage each tick (this was before they changed it to 1 tick per second)
Reflective Light ticked 3 times for 723 damage per tick.

With Enduring Rays:
RD ticked 6 times for 1257 damage per tick - no change at all, although it does state it is a longer channel at 3.4 seconds
RL ticked 4 times at 723 damage per tick - you get 1 extra tick

If RD is actually lasting .5 seconds longer but not giving any extra ticks or damage then Enduring Rays is making RD a DPS loss compared to not getting the passive.

Reflective Light does receive 1 extra tick at the same damage, making it DPS neutral although one could argue better on resource management (like that matters at all).

If anyone does not understand why Templars complain about terrible passives that have terrible synergy please link them to this post!

Did you test Radian Glory (the other morph) aswell by any chance?

Kaliki

Zinaroth wrote: »

Did you test Radian Glory (the other morph) aswell by any chance?

I also only tested Radiant Oppression on live where it always does 4 ticks, with and without Enduring Rays.
I highly doubt that the other morph behaves differently.

Having Enduring Rays decrease the DPS of our execute ability really does make it a no-go.
I wish that maybe instead of balancing our abilities around enduring rays, i. e. make them not affected by it (like @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned earlier in her post for Backlash), they would just redesign Enduring Rays into something useful.

lohworm

Nadezhda wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

Hey Admin, Explosive Charge skill ( it's morphed, don't know the un-morphed skill )is bugged, sometime it won't do anything...
Also makes me freeze my skills/bar swap, by that I mean I can't attack nor swap bars, only run around in my case run away lol

AH ! thank you, I know now I'm not alone with this bug !!

AOECAPS

Don't forget about stamplars also we have an entire tree that we can not use any skills and passives don't benefit us. templars don't have resource management passives like every other class no cc (binding javelin doesn't count because 99% of the time they have broken the cc before they hit the ground) bring back blinding flashes fix the buggy abilities eliminate the knockback from jabs it's hysterically bad especially giving cc immunity and fix our passives. I lol'd when I saw the passives on my NB compared to my Templar we have it bad

LokomotivBreath

I am not a student of the game nor do I have all the stats and percentages memorized for the Templar class and it's skills, so for me, I would like to see (in the skill description) if a skill is stackable with itself and/or with other skills or if it will negate the effects of others.

As a pure healer with very little DPS support, I would like to see a buff to magic regen when using higher cost skills, "spamable" skills and group healing skills.

Lastly, I agree with the others... Get rid of the skills that have more than INSTANT cast times. I have begged Bosses, mobs and ads to not agro on me while I am attempting a 2 second cast time skill, but they just won't accommodate me. If you won't remove the cast times, could you at least make kinder, gentler more understanding NPCs?


'Loko'
Breton Templar

CuzImHarley

I really don't have suggestion on how to fix issues I see with my templar, whom by the way I love!

But seriously, I have to have light armor on my to get regen passives that sux, that also make me squishy. Yet I'm expected to be right up front taking damage with the tanks to keep every one alive. Even wearing light armor, which one would think, would help me be faster, yet some how I'm the slowest in the group.

How can I get sniped in PvP or even marked, but I can't hit the sniper with anything I have, not even my staff. That's not right.

And just one more thing, Gandolf had a staff and a sword, yet I can only have a staff. I can't even have a staff and a Sheila. I'm just saying

Zinaroth

CuzImHarley wrote: »

I can't even have a staff and a Sheila. I'm just saying

Who is Sheila? A long lost love?

bikerangelo

Zinaroth wrote: »

Who is Sheila? A long lost love?

Probably thinks Templars are celibate clerics forbidden from matrimony. I myself have yet to find... a special.. someone... for the pledge of Mara...

Soris

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

Cinbri

Soris wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

I afraid there will be zero news till next eso live.(except news from Wheeler)

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

I afraid there will be zero news till next eso live.(except news from Wheeler)

And I am afraid there won't be many good changes for the Templar class. I don't think ZOS realizes or aknowledges the poor state the class is in. If they did they I think they would've been a lot more inquisitous.

Kaliki

Maybe Gina doesn't want to spoil our anticipation.
Maybe there will be surprise changes no one suspected.

Zinaroth

Kaliki wrote: »

Maybe Gina doesn't want to spoil our anticipation.
Maybe there will be surprise changes no one suspected.

Those are usually the worst when they come from ZOS.
Sorry but I don't have much faith in them at this point.
But guess we will wait and see when patch notes hit and we get on PTS.
Hopefully this once they will be willing to make changes based on feedback from when PTS hits until it goes live on servers.
Usually nothing changes between those two.

acw37162

I can guarantee a nerf to breath of life and the healing ultimate ROP?

After that I just don't know.

I wish Blinding flashes would come back. Which I get the impression was how Templars wee kinda designed to play.

Templars should have a passive that reveals sneaking cloaked targets if you slot a skill from "x" skill line.

I can call a bolt from heaven but I can't lite up the dark?

Also I get sick wAtching my temper try to run, it my Templar was my dog my vet would tell me I should put him down.

Base speed should be tied to armor, weapon, and race choice not to class choice.

Kajit should definitely get speed bonuses race passive where as Orc should get speed and endurance passive. It only makes sense a cat could run faster then and Orc by a little but a Orc could run faster longer.

And it would only make sense if I'm a Kajit Templar I would still be fast as if studying to be a Templar made me slow

Cinbri

Zinaroth wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

I afraid there will be zero news till next eso live.(except news from Wheeler)

And I am afraid there won't be many good changes for the Templar class. I don't think ZOS realizes or aknowledges the poor state the class is in. If they did they I think they would've been a lot more inquisitous.

Don't know about changes, but Gina at least mentioned most broken/useless templar skills(among others). So i trying to be positive.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, there are many tweaks being made to both active and passive abilities in the Thieves Guild DLC including Healing Ritual, Eclipse, Sun Shield, Vampire’s Bane, Radiant Aura, Restoring Focus, and Breath of Life to name a few.

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

I afraid there will be zero news till next eso live.(except news from Wheeler)

And I am afraid there won't be many good changes for the Templar class. I don't think ZOS realizes or aknowledges the poor state the class is in. If they did they I think they would've been a lot more inquisitous.

Don't know about changes, but Gina at least mentioned most broken/useless templar skills(among others). So i trying to be positive.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, there are many tweaks being made to both active and passive abilities in the Thieves Guild DLC including Healing Ritual, Eclipse, Sun Shield, Vampire’s Bane, Radiant Aura, Restoring Focus, and Breath of Life to name a few.

We don't need tweaks, we need skill overhauls. Unless they change how some of these skills work and make them viable as stamina I don't see how these skills will help for example Stamplars. Sorry but I don't share your positivity on this matter. Sorry. But I hope I will be pleasently surprised, doubt it though.

AfkNinja

Zinaroth wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Sneak peek about the templar update please? Have you guys done something about the sun shield at least?

I afraid there will be zero news till next eso live.(except news from Wheeler)

And I am afraid there won't be many good changes for the Templar class. I don't think ZOS realizes or aknowledges the poor state the class is in. If they did they I think they would've been a lot more inquisitous.

Don't know about changes, but Gina at least mentioned most broken/useless templar skills(among others). So i trying to be positive.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, there are many tweaks being made to both active and passive abilities in the Thieves Guild DLC including Healing Ritual, Eclipse, Sun Shield, Vampire’s Bane, Radiant Aura, Restoring Focus, and Breath of Life to name a few.

We don't need tweaks, we need skill overhauls. Unless they change how some of these skills work and make them viable as stamina I don't see how these skills will help for example Stamplars. Sorry but I don't share your positivity on this matter. Sorry. But I hope I will be pleasently surprised, doubt it though.

Yea why no mention of our subpar ultimates too? At the least increase the range and dmg of Radial sweep, no excuse for this skill being so much worse than Flawless Dawnbreaker.