Templar issues thread

Khivas_Carrick

And still here I see.

/bump for justice

Tacos

bump

Nadezhda

AfkNinja wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno has requested we consolidate all Templar issues into one thread so ZOS can review and prepare for the next rebalancing patch in Q1 of 2016. Please post all issues you have noticed with the Templar class regarding bugs, under performing skills and passives and general balance issues with the class. I will start by adding a post that has been shared around by Templar's a few times. Would love to have some feedback added by our Templar community.


Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »
@ZOS_GinaBruno is there also a fix for these bugs and completely useless abilities?

1. No 140% bonus on shields for jabs and sweeps.
2. Last hit of Jabs somtimes doesnt hit
3. no execute damage for Jesus beam when multiple Templars are in group.
4. Radiant sweep not hitting anything at all (also 5m radius for an ultimade is ridiculous)
5. eclipse bug (Eclipse sometimes does not function?)
6. global cooldown on toppling charge (Doubt they fix this)
7. completely useless sun shield (Scaling on HP is too low resulting in a PVP shield to small to be worthwhile.)
8. completely useless backlash due to cap not scaling with spell/weapondamage
9. completely useless eclipse thanks to unnessesary nerf to 1 taget
10. completely useless rite of passage thanks to barrier being 100 times better
11. completely useless healing ritual
12. completely useless radiant aura thanks to potion buffs
13. why is sun fire doing firedamage as only templar skill which forces me to either not use the skill because its crap since its missing the 25% from thaumaturge or put points in elemetal expert and weakening all my other abilities
14. Stamplar getting no healing bonuses resulting in a loss of class identity

Now to passives:

1. lower proc chance of burning light than 25% has been reported
2. ballanced warrior being everything else than ballanced (missing spelldamage)
3. enduring rays lowering some templar dps skills (backlash)
4. light weaver being completely useless thanks to rite of passage and healing ritual being useless
5. master ritualist soulgem return bugged
6. missing ressource sustain for Templars in the passives 4% is laughable (sorcs for excample have 5% plus 15% ult cost reduction plus 20% magicka and stam regen)


And why on earth would you double nerf blazing spear I cant see any logic in nerfing the dps of the class with the lowest dps

also give us back a good aoe CC like blinding flashes


Please post any issues you have noticed below!

Explosive charge is also still bugged, does nothing sometimes, pretty sad though because i like that skill... also wish there were more aoe with more power and more interesting skills 2/3 of the skills are boring and not used

Nadezhda

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

Hey Admin, Explosive Charge skill ( it's morphed, don't know the un-morphed skill )is bugged, sometime it won't do anything...
Also makes me freeze my skills/bar swap, by that I mean I can't attack nor swap bars, only run around in my case run away lol

Dulkur

I have two Templars at v16. One Stamina (Wood Elf), One Magic (Breton).

I am going to disagree with Fengrush, a healer should cancel dps, 1:1. Assuming the healer is balanced to sustain healing, if not the dps should win through resource attrition. Why should a specialized solo, exceed the abilities of a direct counter specialized solo.

Jabs Knockback, I love this ability in PvE it would be a tremendous nerf to remove it. And I like it in pvp, it will interrupt wrecking blow spam. My Stamina Templar, Opens with a Stun out of Stealth, and if that Stun immunity has cycled, I am going to time a binding javelin hit for stun, the only reason I see this as hard to play around is because people want to get the crit buff as soon as they can, I would rather see the crit buff for the stamina morph act passively then see the knockback taken off jabs.

Binding Javelin, I love this ability on my stamina Templar and hate its removal from Magic viability. I would like to see Binding Javelin go back to Magic, and the Stamina version act as a Root + Execute. The logic being, a Stamina Templar can afford to sacrifice magic if they still want to use the Binding morph, while my Magic Templar finds itself in more situations binding Javelin would help with and cannot afford to use it as a Stamina morph.

No escape/mobility. My Stamina Templar attacks from stealth, and succeed or fail, I could be stuck unable to return to stealth for long periods of time, in the same situation my Nightblade can cloak spam until combat breaks. Sorcerers have tremendous mobility. While my Stamina Templar can pick up some mobility with Stamina based passive and active abilities. My Magicka Templar cannot afford to use Stamina for anything but break free, and dodge. I am afraid Thieves Guild DLC will add more abilities that use Stamina rather than Magic.

No synergy between the feature of blocking while dealing damage, and Templar Abilities. If I stay on offense I get destroyed, if I go on defense, they no longer need to block. That indicates the secondary problem, all our good abilities (Magic) can be interrupted, I ran into a sword and shield DK the other night, any attacks I could use that would put a dent into him, were bash spammed which hurts! And he wasn't going away when I just healed. So I ended up giving up on him just admitting we couldn't kill each other and just went on offense, all my attacks were blocked, the damage report at the end showed I was bashed to death.


For a number of abilities, I would like to see them redesigned to something I would be willing to use (all classes).

Not Templar Specific, if you are going to give stamina/magic morphs, add more than just two options, your damaging a lot of interesting build possibilities by giving them to one resource or another.

Add a third resource (health based) for defensive abilities break free, roll dodge, sprint, and block. And some of the other abilities in the game that all characters would like access to, Rapid, Stealth, Hunter, Protection, Inner Fire, ect

If your going to keep melee weapons as the highest Magic Damage we can equip give us some option for ones that give a magic return/scale from magic damage so they can contribute to attack weaving.

Animal_Mother

Cinbri wrote: »

Thallia wrote: »

Come on are you seriously trying to argue against the claim that templars are just better in healing their group members than other classes?

Templar with BoL is best healer. But yes, when Templar using Honor the Dead, his healing output equalized with other classes. Thats why noone use it.

Before I got Vigor, I used Healing Ritual for Magicka-based heals. More bang for the buck with my stamina (and dated hybrid) builds than BoL.

A couple weeks ago, someone said that we should be happy with being the best healers and that we should be happy with that role. I would argue that we are probably on par with the other classes. To be the best, we need our lost healing synergy restored.

The best thing with Templar healing - we have choices (Res staff, Restoring Light, even some Stam options). I think it would be nice to have some synergy between them.

Laranoye

Yesterday I just noticed in the evening, That Puncturing sweeps animation is bugging out now. After a couple of uses every other ability is grayed out and only sweeps will work.. then after a few uses the other abilities start working again... Now this is random but happening frequently now as of yesterday evening.

One thing i did do was use 50% exp scroll before all this happened?

However i did notice aswell that toppling charge did not bug out once?! So have they ninja fixed toppling charge but broken magplar main attacks? lol!

KenaPKK

@Shelgon @manny254 not sure if you've seen this thread yet.

Nifty2g

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

Tankqull

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Khivas_Carrick

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Actually Magicka Templars that play like a melee character are way stronger than a Stamina Templar DPS.

Akinos

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Magicka templars have no other choice but to be healers? Somebody hold my drink while I laugh at this. Such a knee-slapper!

Zinaroth

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Both Stamina DKs and Stamina NBs make better DPS than Stamina Templars. Stamina Sorcerers are somewhere on the same level.

Magicka Templars are currently more versatile than Stamina Templars.

Sorry but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Tankqull

Zinaroth wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Both Stamina DKs and Stamina NBs make better DPS than Stamina Templars. Stamina Sorcerers are somewhere on the same level.

Magicka Templars are currently more versatile than Stamina Templars.

Sorry but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

yeah they can switch from subpar dds, to mediocre healers or great utility chars without any true purpose...

Laranoye

Why has this morphed into a flaming contest between classes? Thought it was a thread for templar bug issues.

I'm still wondering if other people are having issues with Puncturing sweep...

Zinaroth

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

Both Stamina DKs and Stamina NBs make better DPS than Stamina Templars. Stamina Sorcerers are somewhere on the same level.

Magicka Templars are currently more versatile than Stamina Templars.

Sorry but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

yeah they can switch from subpar dds, to mediocre healers or great utility chars without any true purpose...

Templars are dead last in the DPS race, as they have always been, yes.
But currently Magicka has more damage, sustain, passives working in their favour and survivability, than Stamina. The only thing Stamina has going for it, is that it is able to push out more damage in a short span of time, burst, which is good in PvP, but again, the burst they can provide, is still outmatched by all other classes within different build on these.

Mediocre healers? Templars make the best healers in the game, I don't think anyone can question that. Templars also have the best support skills, but they are lacking utility. So if you're saying they have great utility you're wrong, but if you're saying Templars can be great utility for others, then yes, I agree.

But you're still wrong about Stamina Templars being better DPS than Magicka, it's the other way around.

Stamina Templars are so gimped at the moment it's ridiculous.

Worst 1v1 and 1vX build in PvP, even below Magicka DKs.
Worst build to clear vMA on.
Potentially worst DPS build (not sure how good Magicka NBs or Stamina Sorcerers do here, but everyone else has higher potential DPS).

Shelgon

Tankqull wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

the stam templars atleast can fullfill its role beeing a DPS like any other stam build of any other class. magica builds on the other hand have no choice but being a healer and even than you are not necessarily the best option in some cases even the worst option because all templar healing passives have been destroyed with 1.5...
and all usefull cc options for a magica temp have been transformed to stam morphs aswell...

are you talking about pvp? because magicka templars push stamplars sh*t in when it comes to pve dps.

also, why can funnel health's heal return crit, but puncturing sweeps can't?

Nifty2g

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

Go back a few pages Gina already teased a few adjustments in mind based upon feedback in here and left the rest quiet

Fairly sure they know and have already done the work for it just need to wait for pts

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think they gathered all the information already and wont adjust anything else - not until pts feedback anyway

I don't think we will see any adjustments before the class overhaul anyway, so I think people should keep posting here.

Getting the community vocal worked for Sorcerers and Nightblades, should work for Templars aswell.

ZOS already said that DKs will be getting buffs but they haven't said the same about Templars so I still don't think they realize the state that our class is in, especially the Stamina orientated part.

Go back a few pages Gina already teased a few adjustments in mind based upon feedback in here and left the rest quiet

Fairly sure they know and have already done the work for it just need to wait for pts

Yes I already read them, but let's have a look at them again:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We’d like to give you an update on some of the abilities called out in this thread as potentially broken or not appearing to work as intended. Note that this list is not all encompassing, and also keep in mind that many class abilities will be tweaked and re-balanced in the next major update.

• Biting Jabs – No 140% bonus on shields
  • If you are fighting a single target, the 140% damage is calculated against that enemy at once. If attacking a shield, the shield does not have mitigation, whereas a player character does. This may be causing some confusion, but in our testing, we found that every hit of this ability was doing the appropriate amount of damage.
• Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%
  • There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.
• Dark Flare – Initial cast has a delay compared to subsequent casts
  • Subsequent casts can appear to be slightly faster if animation cancelling is used. If there are other issues that don’t appear to be tied to this, please let us know.
• Eclipse – Ability occasionally doesn’t function, and single target skills (like Crystal Frags) can occasionally get through
  • There are some improvements being made to reflects, and specifically with Eclipse in the next update, so this should be addressed at that time.
• Enduring Rays – This passive appears to be lowering the DPS of other Templar Skills, such as Backlash
  • This is actually currently working as designed, though we do agree that this makes taking Enduring Rays somewhat of a nerf to Backlash because it will take longer to explode. We have considered making this passive not affect Backlash, and have a slight redesigned planned to Backlash specifically for the next update.
• Master Ritualist – Soul Gem is not always received
  • There is only a 50% chance of receiving a Soul Gem, so unless there is additional information, this should be working as intended.
• Puncturing Sweep – This ability doesn’t break stealth or cloak
  • This is tied to a larger issue where stealth is causing the target to dodge some abilities, including this one. This should be addressed in the next update.
• Radiant Destruction
  • You don’t always get the execute bonus
    • This will be addressed in the next major update.
  • Ability effects will occasionally get stuck to corpses
    • This is bugged internally, and we’ll work on getting it fixed.
  • There appears to be inconsistent damage
    • The total damage listed in the tooltip does not currently match the total damage output; this will be fixed in the next major update.
• Toppling/Focused Charge – Global cooldown appears to be broken
  • This should be fixed in the next major update.

As mentioned earlier, there are many tweaks being made to both active and passive abilities in the Thieves Guild DLC including Healing Ritual, Eclipse, Sun Shield, Vampire’s Bane, Radiant Aura, Restoring Focus, and Breath of Life to name a few. While we aren’t quite ready to talk about all the changes and details, we did pass along all your feedback in this thread (among others) and we look forward to seeing what you think once this is available to test on the PTS.

So what we are gathering from this is:

• They couldn't reproduce the all-to-well known bug where we don't get full Biting Jabs on shielded targets, meaning it doesn't look like it is getting fixed for now.
• They are fixing Burning Light but "balancing" the DPS of abilities with it in mind, most likely refering a nerf to Biting Jabs and Sweeping Strikes.
• Eclipse is being worked on in what seems to be a reflect mechanic rework.
• Radiant Destruction is being fixed, so it gets the execution bonus as it should.
• Toppling Charge fixed (for the fifth time?)

So what this reads to me is that they will be fixing some broken things, which is great and been a long time coming.

But I don't see any buffs listed here, especially nothing that will fix the horrible position Stamina Templars are in.

That doesn't mean that it isn't coming, but based on what Gina wrote on this thread I don't see anything reassuring me of "the work being done".

I hope they aren't done yet, and if they are, that this isn't the Templar changes in their entirety, because these changes alone won't change anything for us Templars, and do not reflect the wishes and desires people have expressed in this thread.

Now if Gina only wanted to adress bug fixes with her changes, then it all seems good, but then I don't see the harm in continuing to post on this thread, since Templars need more than fixes.

Ashamray

If you are fighting a single target, the 140% damage is calculated against that enemy at once. If attacking a shield, the shield does not have mitigation, whereas a player character does. This may be causing some confusion, but in our testing, we found that every hit of this ability was doing the appropriate amount of damage.

Can somebody explain me what did Gina say? I'm confused. Jabs/sweep won't receive 140% bonus against shield because it works as intended?

Zinaroth

Ashamray wrote: »

If you are fighting a single target, the 140% damage is calculated against that enemy at once. If attacking a shield, the shield does not have mitigation, whereas a player character does. This may be causing some confusion, but in our testing, we found that every hit of this ability was doing the appropriate amount of damage.

Can somebody explain me what did Gina say? I'm confused. Jabs/sweep won't receive 140% bonus against shield because it works as intended?

She is basically saying that the damage does 140% damage against a single target, that a shield does not have damage mitigation, that the change in mitigation between shields and players is probably what is confusing us, and that they couldn't duplicate the bug.

In other words; "We don't know if something is wrong, and if it is we can't find the issue".

Thal

Hi all,

Yes, before I even begin this is my first post - I was compelled out of full-time lurking to comment despite all common sense telling me otherwise.

Read through nearly every post in this entire thread, and perhaps I'm over-simplifying here, but it seems as though nearly every comment on a skills' validity from a DPS perspective is driven by PVP. My question to you/ZOS is this: why do the abilities need to do the same things in both PVE and PVP? For instance, sweeps could have a more powerful CC or perhaps introduce a significant movement speed penalty in PVP that it doesn't have in PVE.

Just my 2 cents - when we talk about balance, I feel like the balance is always centered on PVP balance, which is a funny notion when people inherently tweak and break every available "exploit" and NPCs don't. Why don't we separate the two ways to play this game so when we "balance" PVE we don't break PVP and vice versa?

bikerangelo

Thal wrote: »

Hi all,

Yes, before I even begin this is my first post - I was compelled out of full-time lurking to comment despite all common sense telling me otherwise.

Read through nearly every post in this entire thread, and perhaps I'm over-simplifying here, but it seems as though nearly every comment on a skills' validity from a DPS perspective is driven by PVP. My question to you/ZOS is this: why do the abilities need to do the same things in both PVE and PVP? For instance, sweeps could have a more powerful CC or perhaps introduce a significant movement speed penalty in PVP that it doesn't have in PVE.

Just my 2 cents - when we talk about balance, I feel like the balance is always centered on PVP balance, which is a funny notion when people inherently tweak and break every available "exploit" and NPCs don't. Why don't we separate the two ways to play this game so when we "balance" PVE we don't break PVP and vice versa?

If abilities are broken / not balanced both in PvP and PvE, I doubt they'd try and make them do different things in different instances. There's also PvE content in PvP zones, are you gonna hard CC an NPC with sweeps then immediately snare a player? That's just confusing.
The balance is centered around PvP because that's where every player pushes each class to the limit and discovers the most effective way to build their character. PvE doesn't require the same amount of effort.

Thal

If abilities are broken / not balanced both in PvP and PvE, I doubt they'd try and make them do different things in different instances. There's also PvE content in PvP zones, are you gonna hard CC an NPC with sweeps then immediately snare a player? That's just confusing.
The balance is centered around PvP because that's where every player pushes each class to the limit and discovers the most effective way to build their character. PvE doesn't require the same amount of effort.[/quote]

I see your points but disagree with both It's not confusing when it's the game calculating it (also that was just a poor example to illustrate a point - nothing stopping ZOS from calculating the 25% Burning light chance with NO cooldown in PVE and with .5 sec cooldown in PVP for example if they wanted to pump up PVP damage output and not affect a perceived balance in PVE).

Second, I truly do not enjoy PvP - and no that doesn't make my opinion less valid. Point was simply that calculations and effects don't have to be identical and that "balance" to both aspects would be easier to achieve if the strokes weren't quite as broad and separated the calculations/effects to some minor degree.

dodgehopper_ESO

Sadly nothing was said about the way CC Immunity is at cross paths with most of the class cc, nor was anything said about the shaky standing we are with CC. I really wish they would somehow give us our Blinding Flashes back. The Knockback on Jabs wasn't mentioned either which is unfortunate.

danno8

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Sadly nothing was said about the way CC Immunity is at cross paths with most of the class cc, nor was anything said about the shaky standing we are with CC. I really wish they would somehow give us our Blinding Flashes back. The Knockback on Jabs wasn't mentioned either which is unfortunate.

I'll be honest with you. If the Jabs CC thing isn't changed/dropped when the next big update hits Live, I give up permanently.

Idinuse

danno8 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Sadly nothing was said about the way CC Immunity is at cross paths with most of the class cc, nor was anything said about the shaky standing we are with CC. I really wish they would somehow give us our Blinding Flashes back. The Knockback on Jabs wasn't mentioned either which is unfortunate.

I'll be honest with you. If the Jabs CC thing isn't changed/dropped when the next big update hits Live, I give up permanently.

I feel you. It's a, we think Templars need to be dogs in this game, show off. -Oh, btw, your heals are getting nerfed, thihi.

Don't they dare ripping us of any more DD/DPS, thank you very much, without giving us less channels and at least one insta skill that hits 10-15K tooltip (i.e. 4x3,5K jabs, but insta). Enough already.

a1i3nz

If they said they would fix only one thing I would have to ask for it to be our gap closers (top charge) bug. Seems like it works about %60 of the time in my experience.
Other than that, maybe give mobility to Channeled Focus or add time to it.

Zinaroth

Thal wrote: »

Hi all,

Yes, before I even begin this is my first post - I was compelled out of full-time lurking to comment despite all common sense telling me otherwise.

Read through nearly every post in this entire thread, and perhaps I'm over-simplifying here, but it seems as though nearly every comment on a skills' validity from a DPS perspective is driven by PVP. My question to you/ZOS is this: why do the abilities need to do the same things in both PVE and PVP? For instance, sweeps could have a more powerful CC or perhaps introduce a significant movement speed penalty in PVP that it doesn't have in PVE.

Just my 2 cents - when we talk about balance, I feel like the balance is always centered on PVP balance, which is a funny notion when people inherently tweak and break every available "exploit" and NPCs don't. Why don't we separate the two ways to play this game so when we "balance" PVE we don't break PVP and vice versa?

Completely disagree. I don't like the notion of abilities acting differently in PvE and PvP. I don't even think it is neede to achieve better balance. Noone is asking for perfect balance here, that would require homogenizing the classes, which would be boring. We just want better balance than we have now. I don't like games that seperate PvE and PvP in terms of skills acting different or needing specific gear, that killed PvP for me in WoW. When it became all about competition and esports and less about fun. Resilience, PvP power and different effect on skills will definately make me quit the game.

bikerangelo wrote: »

If abilities are broken / not balanced both in PvP and PvE, I doubt they'd try and make them do different things in different instances. There's also PvE content in PvP zones, are you gonna hard CC an NPC with sweeps then immediately snare a player? That's just confusing.
The balance is centered around PvP because that's where every player pushes each class to the limit and discovers the most effective way to build their character. PvE doesn't require the same amount of effort.

Spoken like an ignorant PvP royalist.
This is completely false.
You obviously haven't PvEed at the highest level, ever.
We test DPS and skill effeciently to the max to push our characters.
Almost every time a new mechanic or meta is discovered it comes from one of us top raiding guilds. We generally are more methodical in our tests where people in PvP test different gear sets to "see how it feels". I understand that you are also trying to push your char to the limit in PvP, but if you think PvE doesn't need to then you're wrong. When people need indepth knowledge and raw data on classes they turn to us for this. This is super evident in the PvP guilds. People who only PvP often just tell their opinions until someone who is actively PvEing drops in and shares their data or knowledge from testing. Yesterday I was schooling some PvPers in a dueling guild on EU about impenetrable and its rating to percentage ratio and the day before that it was a DPS discussion on Biting Jabs versus Sweeping Strikes where all the PvPers was dead set on Biting Jabs being the better skill for damage output, and boy were they wrong...