Surviving Cyrodiil - How to (hopefully) die less often

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

my favorite thing to do is use my ganking builds in the middle of Pug zerg vs Pug zerg...

its amazing how easy it is to single out a single guy and kill them, then use the randoms nearby as a smoke screen..

hell i can Dark flare Jesus beam with my templar and get away with it 90% of the time doing this (the 10% when another of the same mindset gets the drop on me)

anyways moving stealth when everyone around you isnt is really fun...

its fun on my Sorc, my NB and my Templar but not on my DK... i just like being a target on my DK that is hard to kill and impossible for enemys to get off rezes near. so no stealth for that one^^ (not much option really since i main tank PvE with that one, its damm costly to swap Attributes and Champain point if i want to whip spam, which is admittedly fun)

anyways i have managed kill streaks against Red hyper zergs without getting caught by their pushes simply by using the randoms nearby as cover... I dont rely on them at all to help me, but as a meat shield i quite enjoy their presence.... sure those kills get rezzed up, but that just gives me the chance to kill them again.

that said... point 8... you will die a lot if you dont get point 8

Sorcs and NBs and Vampires and Stamina builds... Point #8

Ffastyl · June 2015

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

Flare.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

Flare.

its very.... revealing.

DeanTheCat · June 2015

Made further edits to the guide (Thanks @frozywozy ).

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

my favorite thing to do is use my ganking builds in the middle of Pug zerg vs Pug zerg...

its amazing how easy it is to single out a single guy and kill them, then use the randoms nearby as a smoke screen..

hell i can Dark flare Jesus beam with my templar and get away with it 90% of the time doing this (the 10% when another of the same mindset gets the drop on me)

anyways moving stealth when everyone around you isnt is really fun...

its fun on my Sorc, my NB and my Templar but not on my DK... i just like being a target on my DK that is hard to kill and impossible for enemys to get off rezes near. so no stealth for that one^^ (not much option really since i main tank PvE with that one, its damm costly to swap Attributes and Champain point if i want to whip spam, which is admittedly fun)

anyways i have managed kill streaks against Red hyper zergs without getting caught by their pushes simply by using the randoms nearby as cover... I dont rely on them at all to help me, but as a meat shield i quite enjoy their presence.... sure those kills get rezzed up, but that just gives me the chance to kill them again.

that said... point 8... you will die a lot if you dont get point 8

Sorcs and NBs and Vampires and Stamina builds... Point #8

Try doing that from the rear, most people never expect that as they think that because their allies are protecting them, they are safe from rearguard attacks. It's especially effective on the AD that populate the Alessia-Sejanus-BRK express on EU TB.

Ffastyl wrote: »

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

Flare.

Only the Lingering Morph of that ability is truly effective, as if you took the damage morph, I can simply cloak to dispel it (It counts as a DoT when you take the damage morph).

TagaParti · June 2015

Just seek the help of Sheliza "The Unkillable"
But is not dying less often when you say Sheliza
It is not dying at all.

That's the best guide I know.
Cheers!

DeanTheCat · June 2015

TagaParti wrote: »

Just seek the help of Sheliza "The Unkillable"
But is not dying less often when you say Sheliza
It is not dying at all.

That's the best guide I know.
Cheers!

I hate to have to do this but...

Pchela wrote: »

Memento Mori

Endek · June 2015

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Always glad to see new soldiers on the battlefield. Good luck out there! Just remember, don't be discouraged. We all started out as newbies once.

Thank you!

My return to the front has been somewhat bumpy, comical and full of surprises, but I am hanging in there!

Learning and practicing the basic tactics are great fun, but I also noticed some of the more solid pug's now require TeamSpeak.

This might sound a little over the top, but it sure can help. So for those that are a bit shy, it's still worth giving TS a go and listening in for the leaders calls...

Thanks again and have fun out there.

Endek · June 2015

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

There's the Alliance War Support Skill, "Revealing Flare" that unlocks at skill level 7 and reveals enemies in stealth at the targeted location.

Also, there is the World Skill, Mages Guild, Magelight, morphed into "Radiant Magelight". It increases your spell Critical rating by 10% and also reveals hidden enemies and nearby allies take less damage from stealth attacks.

Hope that's what your looking for.

Bye and have fun out there

glak · June 2015

Thanks @Endek @DeanTheCat

I meant to ask what support spells reveal your own allies in sneak due to animations including beams from Regeneration?
Trying to not expose allies and sometimes see chat saying to stop casting when buffing sneaking allies.

DeanTheCat · June 2015

glak wrote: »

Thanks @Endek @DeanTheCat

I meant to ask what support spells reveal your own allies in sneak due to animations including beams from Regeneration?
Trying to not expose allies and sometimes see chat saying to stop casting when buffing sneaking allies.

Regeneration (Most blatant offender), Rushed Ceremony, Grand Healing, Sap Essence, Rite of Passage, Siege Shield, Obsidian Shield, Retreating Maneuvers, Bone Shield Synergy, Barrier, War Horn, Proximity Detonation.

Also, do note that even if you can't be seen by the enemy, you can still be heard. Annulment is kinda the worst offender in this regard due to the constant twinkling sound. I have managed to track down sneaking enemies just by sound alone. Heck, I can hear even your footsteps and your sheathing and unsheathing of your weapons. Still, tracking via sound is kinda an art onto itself, and not many people in Cyrodiil can do it consistently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Still worth knowing about the fact that it exists.

EDIT: Forgot to mention about those Dwemer Spheres from the Engine Guardian set. I can see them and their beam even when you sneak.

ToRelax · June 2015

DeanTheCat wrote: »

glak wrote: »

Thanks @Endek @DeanTheCat

I meant to ask what support spells reveal your own allies in sneak due to animations including beams from Regeneration?
Trying to not expose allies and sometimes see chat saying to stop casting when buffing sneaking allies.

Regeneration (Most blatant offender), Rushed Ceremony, Grand Healing, Sap Essence, Rite of Passage, Siege Shield, Obsidian Shield, Retreating Maneuvers, Bone Shield Synergy, Barrier, War Horn, Proximity Detonation.

Also, do note that even if you can't be seen by the enemy, you can still be heard. Annulment is kinda the worst offender in this regard due to the constant twinkling sound. I have managed to track down sneaking enemies just by sound alone. Heck, I can hear even your footsteps and your sheathing and unsheathing of your weapons. Still, tracking via sound is kinda an art onto itself, and not many people in Cyrodiil can do it consistently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Still worth knowing about the fact that it exists.

EDIT: Forgot to mention about those Dwemer Spheres from the Engine Guardian set. I can see them and their beam even when you sneak.

But the beam won't actually lead you to any competent player.

The sphere "engages" on it's own and the beam can not be traced back to an invisible enemy (who will move).
Of course it will help you find someone who is sneaking with no visible enemies nearby. In that situation there was no point to both sneaking and using skills because of the sound, like you said, in the first place.
So don't get discouraged to use that set, it can actually be very useful to confuse your enemies.

DeanTheCat · June 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

glak wrote: »

Thanks @Endek @DeanTheCat

I meant to ask what support spells reveal your own allies in sneak due to animations including beams from Regeneration?
Trying to not expose allies and sometimes see chat saying to stop casting when buffing sneaking allies.

Regeneration (Most blatant offender), Rushed Ceremony, Grand Healing, Sap Essence, Rite of Passage, Siege Shield, Obsidian Shield, Retreating Maneuvers, Bone Shield Synergy, Barrier, War Horn, Proximity Detonation.

Also, do note that even if you can't be seen by the enemy, you can still be heard. Annulment is kinda the worst offender in this regard due to the constant twinkling sound. I have managed to track down sneaking enemies just by sound alone. Heck, I can hear even your footsteps and your sheathing and unsheathing of your weapons. Still, tracking via sound is kinda an art onto itself, and not many people in Cyrodiil can do it consistently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Still worth knowing about the fact that it exists.

EDIT: Forgot to mention about those Dwemer Spheres from the Engine Guardian set. I can see them and their beam even when you sneak.

But the beam won't actually lead you to any competent player.
The sphere "engages" on it's own and the beam can not be traced back to an invisible enemy (who will move).
Of course it will help you find someone who is sneaking with no visible enemies nearby. In that situation there was no point to both sneaking and using skills because of the sound, like you said, in the first place.
So don't get discouraged to use that set, it can actually be very useful to confuse your enemies.

Relying on just 1 method never usually works out anyway.

Still, looking for all these telltale signs can help you conserve your supplies of Detection potions, as when you see it, you can be pretty sure someone is sneaking around. But yes, once the fight actually starts, that set is just awesome. Kinda like popping a steroid every 10 or so seconds in heavy combat.

Johngo0036 · June 2015

Hey bro,

NICE guide,

Wish i had this when i started,
I tried to take a resource when I was V1, Before it was nerfed,

A Vr12 player pulled up a chair and sat and watched me with my seige weapon trying to take the resource,

and then HE LAUGHED at me.....

LOL..

DeanTheCat · June 2015

I'm glad to see you liked it.

Reminds me of what I used to do to newbies who tried to capture my resources, except I'd /flute from the top of the tower. Though in the end, I did send them tells telling them what they were doing was pretty much pointless.

ThePonzzz · June 2015

@DeanTheCat, wonderful thread.

Elijah_Crow · June 2015

Just want to echo, great thread!

Knootewoot · June 2015

Thread is awesome.

To bad vanity pets are no longer allowed in Cyrodill. I loved it that people sneak around with their pet out. Was much easier then detect potions.

DeanTheCat · June 2015

Knootewoot wrote: »

Thread is awesome.

To bad vanity pets are no longer allowed in Cyrodill. I loved it that people sneak around with their pet out. Was much easier then detect potions.

You forgot Sorcerer Pets. That's another easy indicator.

But we still have:

1) Restoration Staff Rapid Regeneration Beams
2) Dwemer Healbots with their beams
3) People who think it's wise to cast Annulment while in stealth
4) Nightblade Shades (The melee ones)

All is not lost!

Khyras · June 2015

Siege is king on the battlefields of Cyrodiil (20k damage Cold Stone Trebuchet anyone?)

Siege is king.

Siege .

And there you have it,my biggest reason why i despise PvP in this game.Well, one of the biggest reasons.

alaiham2002 · July 2015

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

You can use radiant light from mages guild skill line

SugaComa · July 2015

Good post, though I have to ask a question ... Why did I get a horrible message from a player who had multiple seige weapons in the go and I sat beside them repairing them as they dropped to below 50% as I'm new to PvP I didn't want to use siege weapons ineffectively so I figured I play repair and maintenance ... Oh no ..

Is this frowned upon ?

DeanTheCat · July 2015

SugaComa wrote: »

Good post, though I have to ask a question ... Why did I get a horrible message from a player who had multiple seige weapons in the go and I sat beside them repairing them as they dropped to below 50% as I'm new to PvP I didn't want to use siege weapons ineffectively so I figured I play repair and maintenance ... Oh no ..

Is this frowned upon ?

@SugaComa There is always a couple of black sheep in any community, I wouldn't bother too much about it. Repairs to siege weapons are always welcome.

Though to be fair, because most people don't expect someone else to repair their siege weapon for them, that player may have simply assumed that you wanted to steal the siege from him. I personally don't think most of the playerbase knows that you can repair siege weapons in the first place, because most of them simply skip the siege section of the Cyrodiil tutorial quest.

In general, these are the guidelines on how to use siege effectively:

For Walls/Doors:
- Stone Trebuchet preferred, though regular plain Balistae work too.
- Aim for the section of the wall where your forces are focus firing on.
- Don't aim for the postern door or the postern house. Shooting those deals no damage.
- Keep corner towers (The one with the mage on top) cannot be destroyed.

For Players:
- Use fire based sieges to deal damage. Firepot Trebuchet is best used on immobile groups while a Fire Balista is deadly against faster moving targets and in cramped spaces.
- Meatbag Catapults inflict a healing debuff, ensuring that enemy healers spend more Magicka to keep their allies alive.
- Oil Catapults and Lightning Balistae inflict a snare, allowing other siege weapons to hit the group of enemies easier. Ice Trebuchets are too slow to serve as a support siege.
- Flaming Oils deal massive damage, but can only be used on players directly below you.
- Regular non-elemental siege can be used to deal decent damage to a group which is spamming purge. Special mention to the Cold Stone Trebuchet, which deals 20k damage in a single hit, enough to send squishier targets to an early grave.

SugaComa · July 2015

@DeanTheCat thanks for the top tips ... I will keep on repairing and keep on helping out groups as a randomer till I find a regular group to play with.

Cheers

DeanTheCat · September 2015

Updated the guide for 1.7, added in a section on the Imperial City. Good luck out there, and may the odds ever be in your favor.

DisgracefulMind · September 2015

Nice post, I feel like a lot of players new to the PvP environment need to absorb this all

Master_Kas · September 2015

Great guide Dean !

FOE :O

A tip about these, if a FOE is after you, you can jump into the water to lose aggro (if you are grouped, all needs to jump into the water so it doesn't chase anyone of you)

Newer players to PVP and Imperial City/Sewers should really look at this thread !

Edit: Stop, remove teleport shade. I love my shade

Cogo · November 2015

@DeanTheCat

Awesome guide!

Maybe add a few basic things that all who are new to Cyro can learn easy.....and some of the veterans as well?

Oghur golden rule #1 - You can not do anything when you are dead. If you die, its your fault. Learn to avoid whatever killed you. Moving and looking solves everything.

You gain AP and Exp for almost everything. Healing, siege, repairing walls and hurting players AND guards. Buy meatbags to use on players and Balistas to siege keeps.

Ignore any addons at first. The Exp/AP mechanics don't show 100%, even when you do earn them.

Join any group and follow them is always a good start. Ask in zone chat. You don't need to be grouped in order to heal and buff and earn AP, but you learn and simply live longer and can see better where the group is moving when you group up. A level 10 player with a resto staff, who can follow a leader, can be far more useful then us veterans at times. Oh, you earn much better AP/Exp in larger groups then solo. (Unless you are very good). Levels and CPs comes automatic. They are never the reason why you are "not as good".

- Ignore zone chat and don't take things personally there. Pvpers are dramaqueens and whiners. Very lethal, but some whine more then they hurt. You will see lots of info in zone chat. Ignore it and follow the group.

A few basic things:
- Block works on everything
- Moving out of the way from harm, cost nothing and is the best defense available
- If you get stuck, cant attack or enter a keep door, use weapon swap. If the swap don't work, cursing and yelling eases the pain a bit.
- Dodge roll is the best escape, which all classes have. Stamina isn't the issue. Being quick and press the button, is!
- Buffs/Debuffs that has a name, "Major *****" don't stack with itself, but "Damage shields/Absorb shields/heals", does.
- Your level don't matter that much. Your skills, build and buffs is far more important. Food buffs rocks!
- Stay with the group at all times. Never run off alone.
- When defending a keep, stay inside the keep. You can siege the enemies from the keep walls, without the enemy being able to hit you back. When the outer wall is breached, stay inside the inner keep. The muppets in zonechat who screams "Keep X is lost", when only the walls are down, are wrong.
- Keeps are wun/lost when the 2 flags turns to your alliance side. Players needs to stand close to the flags for this to work. The more who stands at the flags, the faster they turn. They also turn back.....

You siege keeps to bring down the walls and enter them, to claim them for your alliance, which after the duration of the campaign means if you win or loose. Siege keeps, take flags and repair walls is how you win Cyro. Running around ganking only gives you AP.

Edit: You will lag. Accept it.
Anti lag check list
- Use as little addons as possible
- Exit the game and relog if you get constant lag over a period of a few minutes without it easing up.
- Your youtube streaming and torrent will lag you. Turn them off.

Oh, *** happens. Accept it and head out again!

Dear · November 2015

As a PVE player, this was really interesting to read.

It is better to let the opponent go, then risk losing all your Tel-Var stones.

*than risk losing

Remember: Then is for the answer to When. It even rhymes!

Cogo · November 2015

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Made further edits to the guide (Thanks @frozywozy ).

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

my favorite thing to do is use my ganking builds in the middle of Pug zerg vs Pug zerg...

its amazing how easy it is to single out a single guy and kill them, then use the randoms nearby as a smoke screen..

hell i can Dark flare Jesus beam with my templar and get away with it 90% of the time doing this (the 10% when another of the same mindset gets the drop on me)

anyways moving stealth when everyone around you isnt is really fun...

its fun on my Sorc, my NB and my Templar but not on my DK... i just like being a target on my DK that is hard to kill and impossible for enemys to get off rezes near. so no stealth for that one^^ (not much option really since i main tank PvE with that one, its damm costly to swap Attributes and Champain point if i want to whip spam, which is admittedly fun)

anyways i have managed kill streaks against Red hyper zergs without getting caught by their pushes simply by using the randoms nearby as cover... I dont rely on them at all to help me, but as a meat shield i quite enjoy their presence.... sure those kills get rezzed up, but that just gives me the chance to kill them again.

that said... point 8... you will die a lot if you dont get point 8

Sorcs and NBs and Vampires and Stamina builds... Point #8

Try doing that from the rear, most people never expect that as they think that because their allies are protecting them, they are safe from rearguard attacks. It's especially effective on the AD that populate the Alessia-Sejanus-BRK express on EU TB.

Ffastyl wrote: »

glak wrote: »

What support spells reveal enemy allies in sneak?

Flare.

Only the Lingering Morph of that ability is truly effective, as if you took the damage morph, I can simply cloak to dispel it (It counts as a DoT when you take the damage morph).

Every area attack reveals hidden enemies. Even nightblades invis. All weapons have AE attacks.
I never use flare anymore

Cogo · November 2015

Dear wrote: »

As a PVE player, this was really interesting to read.

It is better to let the opponent go, then risk losing all your Tel-Var stones.

*than risk losing

Remember: Then is for the answer to When. It even rhymes!

This is true in Cyro as well. Chasing an enemy player that seams like they are escaping, mostly leads to you dying.
Also, a single player can stop a whole army from taking a keep by fooling players away, and kill them one by one.