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Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?
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_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Did someone really say that most group builds have "builds" dedicated running rapid maneuvers?
Sorry, most stamina builds can place this on their bar and it doesn't require any special awareness or skill to preform/slot
Now try spamming it and tell me how many casts you get.
gg'Chaos2 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭the green alliance made the Roebeck <=> Nikel <=> Ash a desert and often we will see AD pushing all the way to Brk and in the meantime, birds sing lullaby songs at Nikel.
Roll an AD toon. Come in on any night of the week. If AD owns Nikel and DC owns Ash, if you find less than 20 AD between the two (including sieging one from behind) at any given time you're playing with your eyes closed.
It's very easy for people of one faction to say that the other two are ganging up on them. Other than fighting to dethrone on the last emp keep, I seriously doubt that there is ever any cooperation (green / orange / purple alliance) as people like you seem to believe.
I can testify to that. I did exactly that. Having way more fun being the underdog now. So easy to find fights. Lol
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darnathian wrote: »lol. Get 23 more friends and stop whining. The only butt hurt going on in these forums is all the lonely anti social people that came to a game designed for large scale PVP and want it changed drastically so they can 1 v x again. Who cares about AP. That is just another excuse to complain about it. You don't like it? Fine go to a different campaign with a lower population.
Large scale does not necessarily mean 24 people in a group. What if you had 6, 4-man groups?
Lower population means less people to fight, regardless of group size.Darnathian wrote: »This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
LOLMountainHound wrote: »Here are the VE worms crawling out the wood work lord @FENGRUSH
Take a look at their sigs and you'll see them night capping on their EP toon names and blocking pop space on DC side come prime time, i'd familiarize yourself with both sets if you truly want to get to know them. I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
But honesty deep down EP, I find it an honor the lengths you guys have to go to to stay level on the scoring screen. It truly is satisfying to know we still own you all.
What are you smoking? Where can I get it?3 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »
They don't have to. They choose to do so. Which is pretty significant difference.Lol at the "benefits" that small groups have you listed... Literally nothing you listed has anything to do with game mechanics like the benefits that Zergs receive.
Small groups would also stand a better chance if they also didn't have to fight against the lag that Zergs bring with them. Small groups need the game to be much more responsive in order to coordinate and fight against AOE spamming blobs
Right, because being able to run builds that are more survivable and honed towards the 1v1 and small group fights that group players have to engage in while also solo or in a small group (away from the main raid) multiple times a night provides no benefit at all for you during those fights.
"I'd like to present exhibit A to the court for how solo/small group players are consistently disingenuous in the discussion and want to only ever focus on the disadvantages they have."
As to the other benefits, it speaks to the fact that solo/small group players have more freedom than large group players have during the night. That doesn't necessarily translate into combat wins, but they are certainly perks that large group players don't get to enjoy. As I said at the bottom of the post, things are hardly equal, but as you so eloquently proved, your side of the argument never wants to even admit that there are some advantages to running solo or in a small group, so why even bother having the debate?
The discussion is about the game mechanic advantages that Zergs have over small groups... Not some arbitrary "benefits" you made up that don't do anything for small groups in the battlefield.
You seem to be incapable of following, so I'll try to phrase it yet again.
People playing in large groups have to run group-oriented bars that are quite lackluster when they engage in solo or small skirmishes. People playing in large groups have to engage in these kinds of fights many times throughout the night, which may come as a surprise to you. People playing in small groups or solo do NOT have to handicap their build/skillbar and therefore have a distinct advantage during the 1v1 or small skirmishes that people in large groups so often have to engage in.
How, in what world, is that an arbitrary ::airquotes:: benefit? You may not think it's all that important (though it is...) but the fact that you refuse to even admit that it's a benefit is indicative of what you and everyone else on that side of the debate does in these discussions. I, and everyone else that plays in large groups for pvp, completely revamp my skill bar and sometimes my gear when I want to go play solo or with a friend or two. That should say something. And if you're still incapable of understanding, I know not what to do with you.
You can choose not to, but when you engage another large group, they will have a significant advantage. So yes, you pretty much need to make your skill bars more group-oriented. Either you have a disadvantage when fighting other large groups (which usually means more because those fights happen to determine control of map objectives), or you have a disadvantage during small skirmishes away from your group. It should be obvious why almost everyone chooses to not be disadvantaged during the group v group fights, meaning that the solo/small group has the advantage during those small skirmishes.
For some classes and builds this means swapping out a single skill, for others, far more. Either way, it's an advantage, one that is like pulling teeth to get some people to even acknowledge. I mean, the entire last few posts are about people refusing to admit even a single advantage to being solo or in a small group. No one is saying things are perfectly balanced, but the fact that people insist they have zero advantages just shows how ridiculous these debates are.
Everything has its pros and cons. So what is your point exactly?
The point is that there ARE some cons to being in a large group, and none of the peanut gallery is even capable of admitting that. Don't believe me? Just scroll up.
@Xsorus , agree to disagree, but thank you for reaffirming that the goal of threads like this isn't to improve solo/small group play, but to create yet ANOTHER thread bashing large group play and throwing out the word 'zerg' because it makes people feel better. Gold star Sypher, goal achieved.
Pointing out your zerging with 24 people isn't bashing zergs; if you feel bad about being called a Zerg for running 24 people, stop bloody zerging with 24 people and you won't be called a Zerg. This whole butt hurt thing you guys get when people point out what you are doing is hilariously stupid.
lol. Get 23 more friends and stop whining. The only butt hurt going on in these forums is all the lonely anti social people that came to a game designed for large scale PVP and want it changed drastically so they can 1 v x again. Who cares about AP. That is just another excuse to complain about it. You don't like it? Fine go to a different campaign with a lower population.
If you want to zerg around with 23 other people i have zero problem with it; you pretending you're doing anything else other then zerging though....makes you look silly.
No one is pretending anything. They came to this game for LARGE SCALE PvP. Period. If the game cannot handle it it's not thier fault You don't like it go to another game.2 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
Speechless... the most ignorant comment on this entire thread.
So is the Original post. This is a dumb discussion. another zerg post. So sick of it. All te small scale pvpers in a large scale pvp game trying to get Zos to change the game design.
Let ten focus on fixing the issues we had. Work on AOE Caps and the damn lighting patch. Changing the AP system WILL NOT fix performance issues. That is laughable.
What it will do is help gankers and 1vx players have a chance at emporor.
Let's say you get emp when they make the change. Or one of the other small scale guys.
How does that help the CAMPAIGN?
You all admit you want nothing to do with the keep battles. Well fine. But I don't want any of you emp. That would not be fair to all those trying to win.
Not make a living of crushing new guys.3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Did someone really say that most group builds have "builds" dedicated running rapid maneuvers?
Sorry, most stamina builds can place this on their bar and it doesn't require any special awareness or skill to preform/slot
I'm a primary rapid build, I hit it literally every other cast. Skill + Rapid + Skill + Rapid, etc. You also need the ability to be able to stand in the middle of an enemy bomb, block to live and be close enough to get your teammates out.
I like having backup rapid and dedicated casters in group.Edited by Satiar on November 17, 2015 6:37PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »
They don't have to. They choose to do so. Which is pretty significant difference.Lol at the "benefits" that small groups have you listed... Literally nothing you listed has anything to do with game mechanics like the benefits that Zergs receive.
Small groups would also stand a better chance if they also didn't have to fight against the lag that Zergs bring with them. Small groups need the game to be much more responsive in order to coordinate and fight against AOE spamming blobs
Right, because being able to run builds that are more survivable and honed towards the 1v1 and small group fights that group players have to engage in while also solo or in a small group (away from the main raid) multiple times a night provides no benefit at all for you during those fights.
"I'd like to present exhibit A to the court for how solo/small group players are consistently disingenuous in the discussion and want to only ever focus on the disadvantages they have."
As to the other benefits, it speaks to the fact that solo/small group players have more freedom than large group players have during the night. That doesn't necessarily translate into combat wins, but they are certainly perks that large group players don't get to enjoy. As I said at the bottom of the post, things are hardly equal, but as you so eloquently proved, your side of the argument never wants to even admit that there are some advantages to running solo or in a small group, so why even bother having the debate?
The discussion is about the game mechanic advantages that Zergs have over small groups... Not some arbitrary "benefits" you made up that don't do anything for small groups in the battlefield.
You seem to be incapable of following, so I'll try to phrase it yet again.
People playing in large groups have to run group-oriented bars that are quite lackluster when they engage in solo or small skirmishes. People playing in large groups have to engage in these kinds of fights many times throughout the night, which may come as a surprise to you. People playing in small groups or solo do NOT have to handicap their build/skillbar and therefore have a distinct advantage during the 1v1 or small skirmishes that people in large groups so often have to engage in.
How, in what world, is that an arbitrary ::airquotes:: benefit? You may not think it's all that important (though it is...) but the fact that you refuse to even admit that it's a benefit is indicative of what you and everyone else on that side of the debate does in these discussions. I, and everyone else that plays in large groups for pvp, completely revamp my skill bar and sometimes my gear when I want to go play solo or with a friend or two. That should say something. And if you're still incapable of understanding, I know not what to do with you.
You can choose not to, but when you engage another large group, they will have a significant advantage. So yes, you pretty much need to make your skill bars more group-oriented. Either you have a disadvantage when fighting other large groups (which usually means more because those fights happen to determine control of map objectives), or you have a disadvantage during small skirmishes away from your group. It should be obvious why almost everyone chooses to not be disadvantaged during the group v group fights, meaning that the solo/small group has the advantage during those small skirmishes.
For some classes and builds this means swapping out a single skill, for others, far more. Either way, it's an advantage, one that is like pulling teeth to get some people to even acknowledge. I mean, the entire last few posts are about people refusing to admit even a single advantage to being solo or in a small group. No one is saying things are perfectly balanced, but the fact that people insist they have zero advantages just shows how ridiculous these debates are.
Everything has its pros and cons. So what is your point exactly?
The point is that there ARE some cons to being in a large group, and none of the peanut gallery is even capable of admitting that. Don't believe me? Just scroll up.
@Xsorus , agree to disagree, but thank you for reaffirming that the goal of threads like this isn't to improve solo/small group play, but to create yet ANOTHER thread bashing large group play and throwing out the word 'zerg' because it makes people feel better. Gold star Sypher, goal achieved.
Pointing out your zerging with 24 people isn't bashing zergs; if you feel bad about being called a Zerg for running 24 people, stop bloody zerging with 24 people and you won't be called a Zerg. This whole butt hurt thing you guys get when people point out what you are doing is hilariously stupid.
lol. Get 23 more friends and stop whining. The only butt hurt going on in these forums is all the lonely anti social people that came to a game designed for large scale PVP and want it changed drastically so they can 1 v x again. Who cares about AP. That is just another excuse to complain about it. You don't like it? Fine go to a different campaign with a lower population.
If you want to zerg around with 23 other people i have zero problem with it; you pretending you're doing anything else other then zerging though....makes you look silly.
No one is pretending anything. They came to this game for LARGE SCALE PvP. Period. If the game cannot handle it it's not thier fault You don't like it go to another game.
This thread has like multiple posts in it of people pretending they're not zerging; I'm also not even sure why you brought up the game not handling it....since that's unrelated to the issue..
Its like you just didn't read anything, wanted to disagree with me, then opened your mouth and let word soup come out that makes little sense.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Oh just wanted to add, people came to this game not just for large scale pvp; they came to this game because it was suppose to be like DAOC...which is the same reason they played GW2..and every other Large scale pvp game afterward....and DAOC even though it had large scale pvp..was renowned for its 8v8 small scale and 8vzerg combat...not even mentioning its Stealth Meta that was extremely robust and was mostly around 1v1 and such combat...Basically the game had it all, even though it was designed for large scale pvp...Edited by Xsorus on November 17, 2015 6:39PMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Actually the term zerg is in reference to the starcraft zergling force and strategy that employed a lot of small dudes balled together to wipe out an enemy fast...get your facts straight not everything branched from daoc or gw2
And to add no people didnt come to this game solely because it was like daoc or gw2...it's an elder scrolls game which had a very high fan base prior to them making it a mmo...that's where the majority of their player base came fromEdited by GRxKnight on November 17, 2015 6:42PMMember of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 84 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Literally the whole idea of zerging is bringing many more people to the fight to win it by sheer numbers. How this evolved to mean "any group me and my friends can't kill" is beyond me,Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost4 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Actually the term zerg is in reference to the starcraft zergling force and strategy that employed a lot of small dudes balled together to wipe out an enemy fast...get your facts straight not everything branched from daoc or gw2
And to add no people didnt come to this game solely because it was like daoc or gw2...it's an elder scrolls game which had a very high fan base prior to them making it a mmo...that's where the majority of their player base came from
Xsorus getting... zerg rushed. Noob.4 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Actually the term zerg is in reference to the starcraft zergling force and strategy that employed a lot of small dudes balled together to wipe out an enemy fast...get your facts straight not everything branched from daoc or gw2
And to add no people didnt come to this game solely because it was like daoc or gw2...it's an elder scrolls game which had a very high fan base prior to them making it a mmo...that's where the majority of their player base came from
I see you don't know much about your MMO history; You go back and read my post again where I say the term was Co-opted by players to describe tons of people in DAOC...yes we know it was from zergling from starcraft...and the biggest tactic back in the day was Zerg Rushing...So when you had a crap ton of players in DAOC running together...DAOC players started calling it Zerging.....So i'm glad you decided to share your complete lack of understanding on the topic.
And the majority of people who came to this game for the PvP came here cause it was suppose to be like DAOC, don't kid yourself.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Literally the whole idea of zerging is bringing many more people to the fight to win it by sheer numbers. How this evolved to mean "any group me and my friends can't kill" is beyond me,
Umm, it hasn't evolved to mean "any group me and my friends can't kill"?
No one would say the other group zerged you down in for example a 4v4 or an 8v8.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Actually the term zerg is in reference to the starcraft zergling force and strategy that employed a lot of small dudes balled together to wipe out an enemy fast...get your facts straight not everything branched from daoc or gw2
And to add no people didnt come to this game solely because it was like daoc or gw2...it's an elder scrolls game which had a very high fan base prior to them making it a mmo...that's where the majority of their player base came from
I see you don't know much about your MMO history; You go back and read my post again where I say the term was Co-opted by players to describe tons of people in DAOC...yes we know it was from zergling from starcraft...and the biggest tactic back in the day was Zerg Rushing...So when you had a crap ton of players in DAOC running together...DAOC players started calling it Zerging.....So i'm glad you decided to share your complete lack of understanding on the topic.
And the majority of people who came to this game for the PvP came here cause it was suppose to be like DAOC, don't kid yourself.
Hey instead of comparing games on the forums why don't you either a) go play those games whose pvp gameplay you want or b) stop talking because no one wants to hear people complaining that they can't 1vX or 8vZerg...if you think you should be able to kill a zerg solo or with a small group go run in BWB because that's the level of play you seem to be apt forMember of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 85 -
Winnamine✭✭✭✭✭MountainHound wrote: »Here are the VE worms crawling out the wood work lord @FENGRUSH
Take a look at their sigs and you'll see them night capping on their EP toon names and blocking pop space on DC side come prime time, i'd familiarize yourself with both sets if you truly want to get to know them. I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
But honesty deep down EP, I find it an honor the lengths you guys have to go to to stay level on the scoring screen. It truly is satisfying to know we still own you all.
I'm trying to decide what's more ironic, someone from CN accusing VE of running 70 people, you fanboying up to Fengrush, apparently not realizing he was actually (briefly ) in VE, or your assertion that DC, the underdog alliance of Cyrodiil for basically ever, has somehow spent the game "owning" EP... Winni
~
VE
Decibel4 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Wait...you think using the term zerg in a game that is designed for large scale pvp is silly?
You realize that the term was co-opted by players to describe a crap ton of players in DAOC right? You're like over a decade late to this whine....
Actually the term zerg is in reference to the starcraft zergling force and strategy that employed a lot of small dudes balled together to wipe out an enemy fast...get your facts straight not everything branched from daoc or gw2
And to add no people didnt come to this game solely because it was like daoc or gw2...it's an elder scrolls game which had a very high fan base prior to them making it a mmo...that's where the majority of their player base came from
I see you don't know much about your MMO history; You go back and read my post again where I say the term was Co-opted by players to describe tons of people in DAOC...yes we know it was from zergling from starcraft...and the biggest tactic back in the day was Zerg Rushing...So when you had a crap ton of players in DAOC running together...DAOC players started calling it Zerging.....So i'm glad you decided to share your complete lack of understanding on the topic.
And the majority of people who came to this game for the PvP came here cause it was suppose to be like DAOC, don't kid yourself.
Hey instead of comparing games on the forums why don't you either a) go play those games whose pvp gameplay you want or b) stop talking because no one wants to hear people complaining that they can't 1vX or 8vZerg...if you think you should be able to kill a zerg solo or with a small group go run in BWB because that's the level of play you seem to be apt for
So we moving onto a different topic now since your complete lack of understanding of the previous one was apparent?
A. Comparing games to show your lack of knowledge on the subject doesn't mean I want to play those games now..It just means you knew nothing of the subject at hand and I was pointing it out.
B. I don't think I was complaining about 1vX or 8vZerg? I'm pretty sure I was pointing out what a zerg was.....and also how you knew nothing of the subject you decided to chime in on.
Anymore topics you want to move onto?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...
You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.
You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Brian just posted in another thread saying AP rewards will be looked at, so this thread is moot now.0 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »
How dumb does someone have to be to spam it? How is that even a counter argument?
That's my point. Zerg players think doing things like slotting rapid my maneuvers for the group and not spamming it takes some sort of special skill0 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »
How dumb does someone have to be to spam it? How is that even a counter argument?
That's my point. Zerg players think doing things like slotting rapid my maneuvers for the group and not spamming it takes some sort of special skill
During raids we like to hone our team-playing skills, we're one unit. We're only as good as the person to the left of us, and to the right of us. One unit that makes up a much deadlier force because we have tailored our builds to synergize. But I doubt you care, it's clear that you think we're all one key spamming monkeys that don't need to use our brains. Next time I run into you solo, and win, just remember that I'm only a zergling and you shouldn't feel bad.'Chaos2 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »
lol. Get 23 more friends and stop whining. The only butt hurt going on in these forums is all the lonely anti social people that came to a game designed for large scale PVP and want it changed drastically so they can 1 v x again. Who cares about AP. That is just another excuse to complain about it. You don't like it? Fine go to a different campaign with a lower population.
We are like the last Native Indians, mourning the loss of the buffalo who sustained our way of life. The 1vXer never fought zergs, we fought the small disorganized groups of players and other soloers. What the zergers and ZoS in their unfailing wisdom have done is killed the viability of every playstyle except ball group/zerg by killing all of the "buffalo" and driving them into extinction. Most of us have no interest in fighting 23 others and having a big party in TS every night. We just want to log in maybe group with a friend or two and have fun.
Such a crime....
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube5 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MountainHound wrote: »Here are the VE worms crawling out the wood work lord @FENGRUSH
Take a look at their sigs and you'll see them night capping on their EP toon names and blocking pop space on DC side come prime time, i'd familiarize yourself with both sets if you truly want to get to know them. I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
But honesty deep down EP, I find it an honor the lengths you guys have to go to to stay level on the scoring screen. It truly is satisfying to know we still own you all.
I'm trying to decide what's more ironic, someone from CN accusing VE of running 70 people, you fanboying up to Fengrush, apparently not realizing he was actually (briefly ) in VE, or your assertion that DC, the underdog alliance of Cyrodiil for basically ever, has somehow spent the game "owning" EP...
EP has been the underdog alliance for months. Since IC came out and Thornblade was removed I would say. EP has numbers but lack organisation and players who play since beta.Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
2 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...
You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.
You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose
Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil
When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.
Git rekt.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴4 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...
You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.
You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose
Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil
When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.
Git rekt.
That's cool and all.. But as you know, not everything always goes as planned. Like instead of removing veteran ranks, they added more
And the thing is.... The servers CAN'T currently handle it, I can care less about what happened at launchEdited by MrGrimey on November 17, 2015 8:46PM0 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...
You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.
You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose
Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil
When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.
Git rekt.
It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.Edited by frozywozy on November 17, 2015 8:46PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
1 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MountainHound wrote: »Here are the VE worms crawling out the wood work lord @FENGRUSH
Take a look at their sigs and you'll see them night capping on their EP toon names and blocking pop space on DC side come prime time, i'd familiarize yourself with both sets if you truly want to get to know them. I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
But honesty deep down EP, I find it an honor the lengths you guys have to go to to stay level on the scoring screen. It truly is satisfying to know we still own you all.
As cute as it is how you kiss @FENGRUSH 's ass like that, do you realize he probably dislikes you as much as he dislikes VE? Possibly even a little more since you stack 3 raids every night and can't even take a keep on your own unless we open it up for you. And VE doesn't need to night cap anything, you'll see soon enough, get comfortable at the Southern High Rock gate, its gonna be juicey.Edited by Ghost-Shot on November 17, 2015 8:53PM3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MountainHound wrote: »I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
I'm really embarrassed for you at how hard you just tried to suck up.
Also, lol at you trying to pushing for aoe cap removal. Hope you realize the irony here. The reason everyone is pushing so hard for aoe cap removal is because of groups like yours, stacking multiple raids and blobbing around, completely isolated from damage due to broken mechanics. If they're ever removed, prepare to spend a lot of time looking at a death recap.7 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »This is the least of our issues, Sypher. You should use your influence to keep PVP from completely dying. This won't help.
You guys aren't getting the big picture.
Balancing out AP gain is the first step to discourage zerging. Zerging is the leading cause of performance issue in cyrodiil.
I'm really surprised (and disapointed) that people in this thread don't get that.
It has been said many times. Zergs already have an advantage on the battlefield due to sheer numbers. They don't need added help from game mechanics and added incentives from AP gain. Btw, anybody who says AP doesn't matter is flat out lying
AP is nice but I have no need for it. I look at kill counter these days to see how the night went. My AP tracker mod is uninstalled lol
The game has need for AP balancing though, regardless if YOU personally need AP or not.
Leaderboards make a game competitive, on ESO the PVP leaderboards are determined by AP. (Just in case you failed to notice).
This whole post is so the streamers can compete for emp to push their stream numbers.
I think your zerg tinted spectacles are not allowing you to see just how many people are leaving and have left this game/ PVP scene due to large groups. I don't give a *** if this aids someone's stream views and helps promote the game. It's a fix that's needed regardless if @Sypher will benefit from it or not.
I run solo unless my guild is defending or pushing the map. I have been here since the beginning and I would say 99% of the friends I started the game with left.
So yes I am bitter. But the use of the term zerg in a game designed for large scale pvp makes you all look silly.
Let alone changing mechanics to benefit small scale guys.
Nobody wants to benefit smallscale guys. People want an even footing...<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »MountainHound wrote: »Here are the VE worms crawling out the wood work lord @FENGRUSH
Take a look at their sigs and you'll see them night capping on their EP toon names and blocking pop space on DC side come prime time, i'd familiarize yourself with both sets if you truly want to get to know them. I believe if ZOS remove aoe caps lord @FENGRUSH , you could wipe out their 70 man teams with a flare.
But honesty deep down EP, I find it an honor the lengths you guys have to go to to stay level on the scoring screen. It truly is satisfying to know we still own you all.
As cute as it is how you kiss @FENGRUSH 's ass like that, do you realize he probably dislikes you as much as he dislikes VE? Possibly even a little more since you stack 3 raids every night and can't even take a keep on your own unless we open it up for you. And VE doesn't need to night cap anything, you'll see soon enough, get comfortable at the Southern High Rock gate, its gonna be juicey.
I dont hate people in the ball groups - I hate that ball groups is what PvP in cyro has been forced into. Everyone wants to win - so they hop in ball groups. ZOS needs to 1) make things less slanted in their favor (without argument) and 2 (in my opinion) discourage groups that function purely in ball format. Being grouped like that should have a risk associated with it. The current game only encourages grouping up, even if youre not in party you can run inside a ball group and your survival instantly goes up.7
