Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?

Teargrants

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

Raizin

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

U make me kinda angry.... and kinda sad .... golden days ... and why angry? Because now if this wld happen, the game wld FKI** CRASH .....

Teargrants

Raizin wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

U make me kinda angry.... and kinda sad .... golden days ... and why angry? Because now if this wld happen, the game wld FKI** CRASH .....

Exactly. And it's not just what you see in the vid. Those were fights on servers w/ pop caps much higher than the current cap - there would be multiple other big battles happening at other keeps over the map at the same time, and the performance was still that good.

frozywozy

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

Yeah I agree. I've noticed that alot the past few weeks. As soon as an organized group of 15+ enter an area where there is already 40-50players, even tho no one is spamming aoes yet, the server latency immediately spikes from 100-120ms to 300ms or so.

Raizin

Teargrants wrote: »

Raizin wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

U make me kinda angry.... and kinda sad .... golden days ... and why angry? Because now if this wld happen, the game wld FKI** CRASH .....

Exactly. And it's not just what you see in the vid. Those were fights on servers w/ pop caps much higher than the current cap - there would be multiple other big battles happening at other keeps over the map at the same time, and the performance was still that good.

u made my choice not to play alot easier with this reminder vid... i just cant handle the bs performance that is ongoin for months now...

Zheg

frozywozy wrote: »

Yeah I agree. I've noticed that alot the past few weeks. As soon as an organized group of 15+ enter an area where there is already 40-50players, even tho no one is spamming aoes yet, the server latency immediately spikes from 100-120ms to 300ms or so.

... I'd be happy with 300ms ping at this point

Cinbri

Raizin wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

U make me kinda angry.... and kinda sad .... golden days ... and why angry? Because now if this wld happen, the game wld FKI** CRASH .....

Bring back old Rushed Ceremony animation. Just do it and there will be no lags

FENGRUSH

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

To people saying this game was designed for Zerg vs Zerg pvp...

You're wrong, if it was, this game would be able to handle all players spamming abilities on the screen at the same time. I can't get into a large scale battle without my game turning into a slide show and all the effects from my abilities becoming invisible.

You can have a car designed for speed, but if you put a lawnmower engine in it, it's not going to fulfil it's purpose

See, this is how I know that you just don't read stuff, it's literally right on the official website.

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil

Can't get any more specific than that. We already established through exhaustive complaining that anything bigger than 8 ppl is a 'zerg', so clearly a game promoting fights w/ hundreds of players on screen is a game 'designed for zerg vs zerg pvp'.

When you say the servers can't handle it, that's how I know you weren't here at launch, cuz for the first 3 months of the game, the servers could *** handle it, until the anti bot system was implemented server side.

Git rekt.

It's not only because of the anti-bot system, let's be honest here. I remember playing with fixate and Condemned. Fixate actually started using a destro staff and impulse only a month after the game got release. Remove Impulse and Steel tornado and Healing Spring from people's bars and the game will get much better. This is obviously not a realistic solution, but they can remove AOE caps though.

Oh I remember Fixate, Nicole, ect. I'm all for removing aoe caps and other measures to address lag, but the thing is, the anti bot system is the biggest source of lag. You could remove all the aoe you want from people's bars, you'll never get smooth play like this back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztKQed8juY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Geja2ZbEWg
Nowadays the game starts lagging just displaying that many people on screen doing nothing.

Buncha noobs killing other noobs. Didnt even spam purge for 2minutes straight.

Sypher

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

Cryhavoc

Sypher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

/thread

FENGRUSH

Sypher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

Good stuff. Despite all the back and forth on other topics in this thread - I agree with Sypher its very relevant, despite how many have mentioned it is not relevant.

Minno

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

Good stuff. Despite all the back and forth on other topics in this thread - I agree with Sypher its very relevant, despite how many have mentioned it is not relevant.

Nice conclusion!

Satiar

Sypher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

Of all the things to get a response on. Sigh. Back to waiting for responses on game breaking issues.

MrGrimey

Satiar wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Also in discussion are AP gains in groups and the behavior it encourages/discourages as well as the rate of AP gains as a whole.

Of all the things to get a response on. Sigh. Back to waiting for responses on game breaking issues.

It's part of the bigger picture if you haven't bothered keping up with the last 11 pages

krim

All because 1.6 because this wasnt an issue in 1.5

Killer808

krim wrote: »

All because 1.6 because this wasnt an issue in 1.5

#1.5orBUST

emma666

l

GRxKnight

Just going to go on record and say that it isn't blob groups or ball groups that's the cause of lag...sure they don't help when they all stack up on top of each other...but just last night at BRK on azura's, you could feel the frame rate and ping both go to crap while there was no one stacked on top of each other...i can only assume that the game just has a problem when a lot of people (whatever the magic number is) are in the same vicinity of each other...i mean we all knew this but i think the blame on ball groups, zergs, whatever you want to call them, is unjustified as they're not all entirely to blame here. Again i know 98% of people in this thread knew this already, but to say that it's all the zerg's fault is rather dumb as indicative of what occurred last night

MountainHound

What he said^

A burst castle is always going to attract people to a keep. If those 12-24 were not together in a ball they'd still be somewhere in that keep. I don't think you need to be in a ball to realize if you stand on the flag as a defender it will be hard for the enemy to capture it.

If the talk of bringing back forward camps is correct, the lag spikes are just going to become 10 x worst.

frozywozy

MountainHound wrote: »

What he said^

A burst castle is always going to attract people to a keep. If those 12-24 were not together in a ball they'd still be somewhere in that keep. I don't think you need to be in a ball to realize if you stand on the flag as a defender it will be hard for the enemy to capture it.

If the talk of bringing back forward camps is correct, the lag spikes are just going to become 10 x worst.

Like we've discussed previously in this thread, there is a problem when too many people are in the same area even if they are not spamming aoe and dealing damage, yet. Latency spikes up to 250-300ms for me during those moments. Problem is when an organized group actually start engaging another group in that area where there is already at least 60players, latency spikes even more, usually up to 800ms for me and since the last patch, it even make me spike to 2k sometimes, then every player around me freeze in place and I either have to restart my client or wait until I crash with a timeout error. Organized groups surely have a major impact in server performances when dealing aoes.

GRxKnight

frozywozy wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

What he said^

A burst castle is always going to attract people to a keep. If those 12-24 were not together in a ball they'd still be somewhere in that keep. I don't think you need to be in a ball to realize if you stand on the flag as a defender it will be hard for the enemy to capture it.

If the talk of bringing back forward camps is correct, the lag spikes are just going to become 10 x worst.

Like we've discussed previously in this thread, there is a problem when too many people are in the same area even if they are not spamming aoe and dealing damage, yet. Latency spikes up to 250-300ms for me during those moments. Problem is when an organized group actually start engaging another group in that area where there is already at least 60players, latency spikes even more, usually up to 800ms for me and since the last patch, it even make me spike to 2k sometimes, then every player around me freeze in place and I either have to restart my client or wait until I crash with a timeout error. Organized groups surely have a major impact in server performances when dealing aoes.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you...to put the blame solely in organized groups is a bit ridiculous imo...it's like a group of 12 saying they solely wiped a full raid when they fail to realize there's 30 other players for them dealing damage to that group and absorbing the damage the full raid deals...to blame just the organized groups for causing lag when there are other players in the area spamming skills is what i have an issue with...I've had plenty of fights where it's just "ball group vs ball group" and no lag no issues whatsoever...add in 30 players from both sides doing whatever else and that's when things go south...it's not the ball groups but the sheer numbers of people in the area

Jaronking

I have a question what is the Faction Cap limit on PC?

Minno

GRxKnight wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

What he said^

A burst castle is always going to attract people to a keep. If those 12-24 were not together in a ball they'd still be somewhere in that keep. I don't think you need to be in a ball to realize if you stand on the flag as a defender it will be hard for the enemy to capture it.

If the talk of bringing back forward camps is correct, the lag spikes are just going to become 10 x worst.

Like we've discussed previously in this thread, there is a problem when too many people are in the same area even if they are not spamming aoe and dealing damage, yet. Latency spikes up to 250-300ms for me during those moments. Problem is when an organized group actually start engaging another group in that area where there is already at least 60players, latency spikes even more, usually up to 800ms for me and since the last patch, it even make me spike to 2k sometimes, then every player around me freeze in place and I either have to restart my client or wait until I crash with a timeout error. Organized groups surely have a major impact in server performances when dealing aoes.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you...to put the blame solely in organized groups is a bit ridiculous imo...it's like a group of 12 saying they solely wiped a full raid when they fail to realize there's 30 other players for them dealing damage to that group and absorbing the damage the full raid deals...to blame just the organized groups for causing lag when there are other players in the area spamming skills is what i have an issue with...I've had plenty of fights where it's just "ball group vs ball group" and no lag no issues whatsoever...add in 30 players from both sides doing whatever else and that's when things go south...it's not the ball groups but the sheer numbers of people in the area

I'd agree with you if I saw ball-groups prioritized single target abilities. But its steel tornado/impulse/prox det spam plus other PBAoEs. That is used in 24 versus 24 ball groups, and it certainly adds a distinct flavor of the lag we currently see. Can't escape the current zerg locator/idiom "oh lag is increasing, _____'s group is around." (Foil hat or not.)

With just normal zergs you get lag, but its functional to at least get dmg (delayed). Because the AOEs are not coordinated via Real time TS, therefore the server has time to react.
Get those groups to be within one step of each other, spam the same skills in coordination, and it compounds the server.

And we can't compare to other servers, those don't have the competition population that AZ has. Bring the same groups to Trueflame, haderus, etc, and you'll get the same result.

Thread was about AP changes to help give a alternate emphasis on how groups play. Right now its super linear, and its not helping from a competitive and lag standpoint.

GRxKnight

Minno wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

What he said^

A burst castle is always going to attract people to a keep. If those 12-24 were not together in a ball they'd still be somewhere in that keep. I don't think you need to be in a ball to realize if you stand on the flag as a defender it will be hard for the enemy to capture it.

If the talk of bringing back forward camps is correct, the lag spikes are just going to become 10 x worst.

Like we've discussed previously in this thread, there is a problem when too many people are in the same area even if they are not spamming aoe and dealing damage, yet. Latency spikes up to 250-300ms for me during those moments. Problem is when an organized group actually start engaging another group in that area where there is already at least 60players, latency spikes even more, usually up to 800ms for me and since the last patch, it even make me spike to 2k sometimes, then every player around me freeze in place and I either have to restart my client or wait until I crash with a timeout error. Organized groups surely have a major impact in server performances when dealing aoes.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you...to put the blame solely in organized groups is a bit ridiculous imo...it's like a group of 12 saying they solely wiped a full raid when they fail to realize there's 30 other players for them dealing damage to that group and absorbing the damage the full raid deals...to blame just the organized groups for causing lag when there are other players in the area spamming skills is what i have an issue with...I've had plenty of fights where it's just "ball group vs ball group" and no lag no issues whatsoever...add in 30 players from both sides doing whatever else and that's when things go south...it's not the ball groups but the sheer numbers of people in the area

I'd agree with you if I saw ball-groups prioritized single target abilities. But its steel tornado/impulse/prox det spam plus other PBAoEs. That is used in 24 versus 24 ball groups, and it certainly adds a distinct flavor of the lag we currently see. Can't escape the current zerg locator/idiom "oh lag is increasing, _____'s group is around." (Foil hat or not.)

With just normal zergs you get lag, but its functional to at least get dmg (delayed). Because the AOEs are not coordinated via Real time TS, therefore the server has time to react.
Get those groups to be within one step of each other, spam the same skills in coordination, and it compounds the server.

And we can't compare to other servers, those don't have the competition population that AZ has. Bring the same groups to Trueflame, haderus, etc, and you'll get the same result.

Thread was about AP changes to help give a alternate emphasis on how groups play. Right now its super linear, and its not helping from a competitive and lag standpoint.

Last night at BRK on azura's was a perfect example of what I'm trying to get across...i understand that when you get 24 people or more on both sides spamming PBAoE's it's going to lag...everyone knows this but from my experience it's still somewhat playable...you can cast, swap weapons, move, block etc...however there seems to be a magic number that once you cross that threshold for people in the same area...everything i just mentioned seems to either get harder to do or flat out just doesn't work...

To let this thread die now since we've all been off topic forever and @ZOS_BrianWheeler has answered @Sypher I'm going to go and create thread solely focused on this discussion

Psilent

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Bigger question is who cares about AP? These days most guilds I know play for fun fights and objective completions than AP. Even the farming groups are really just attempts to get high number of kills as opposed to high amounts of AP.

Everyone cares about AP. AP is for leaderboards and alliance war ranks and abilities.
I'm surprised a zer..I mean raid leader like yourself question the importance of AP and its demand.
tsk tsk... /disappointed.

Zheg wrote: »

Same reason why most games give bonuses of some kind to groups, whether it's exp or otherwise. It's an mmo. It's supposed to be social, group up.

AP is still fine if you can find good ganking while solo, but why should solo play be optimal when Cyrodiil is meant for mass pvp?

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like you're trying to figure out why people in pvp groups gain more AP than you, and it's not because of the formula you posted. They simply kill more people over the same period of time than you could find solo running between objectives to gank in a field. You have to pick your fights while solo, you can't challenge another raid group. PVP groups have more options, as they should.

Spoken like a true zergling.

On a totally unrelated note... Zheg rhymes with Zerg. Fascinating !

#LetsSocialize
#24v1Style

jkjk

I mean, if you think Zheg rhymes with zerg, you either need speech therapy or are just not all that intelligent - at which point it would be cruel to argue with you. I'm currently leaning towards the latter given that you're calling someone who played solo or duo for 6+ months, and recently in groups <=24, a zergling.

And @Sypher , come now, you're honestly going to say you had no foresight that a thread like this would turn into yet another hysterics-focused rant about whatever arbitrary number someone picked to start saying zerg? I tend to give you a little more credit than that. While I see no problems with adopting an even distribution system for AP (and see little value to AP to even begin with...), AP distribution has been the same since launch; there have been no additions or changes made to that system to promote or discourage solo/small/large group play that should suddenly make this a pressing issue all of a sudden, so if I'm reading between the lines you can't blame me for suspecting this is just another attempt to stoke the flames against group play, for which you could have picked a better cause or contributed to any number of the other threads doing that. I mean, you frame the thread title as "why do zergs get this", and then your OP does math for 1 to 4 and then 24 people. How SHOULD something like that be interpreted? Most would interpret that as you saying 24 people is a zerg, or anything lower but still close to that. Given the things you say, one could even go so far as to assume something like 12 would be a zerg in your eyes considering the way you've framed this thread.

The way AP is awarded is probably on the same scale as ice trebs not being as good as fire trebs in terms of priorities for pvp right now. Healers tend to make more AP than every other role in pvp, is that even and balanced? No. Is that important right now? No. There are far bigger fish to fry, as you should well know.

As for the incentives for large group play, while you and others seem to obviously loathe it, you all tend to conveniently forget the promos for ESO and descriptions of cyrodiil being for large-scale pvp. Maybe the devs actually WANTED to encourage more than 8 people in a group for large scale pvp, and while still allowing it and keeping it perfectly viable, provide disincentives for everyone to run around solo or in a small group as that impedes the ability for alliances to focus on map objectives.

24 people is a zerg..this shouldn't be up for argument.

That's one group....

Ghost-Shot

Psilent wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Bigger question is who cares about AP? These days most guilds I know play for fun fights and objective completions than AP. Even the farming groups are really just attempts to get high number of kills as opposed to high amounts of AP.

Everyone cares about AP. AP is for leaderboards and alliance war ranks and abilities.
I'm surprised a zer..I mean raid leader like yourself question the importance of AP and its demand.
tsk tsk... /disappointed.

Zheg wrote: »

Same reason why most games give bonuses of some kind to groups, whether it's exp or otherwise. It's an mmo. It's supposed to be social, group up.

AP is still fine if you can find good ganking while solo, but why should solo play be optimal when Cyrodiil is meant for mass pvp?

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like you're trying to figure out why people in pvp groups gain more AP than you, and it's not because of the formula you posted. They simply kill more people over the same period of time than you could find solo running between objectives to gank in a field. You have to pick your fights while solo, you can't challenge another raid group. PVP groups have more options, as they should.

Spoken like a true zergling.

On a totally unrelated note... Zheg rhymes with Zerg. Fascinating !

#LetsSocialize
#24v1Style

jkjk

I mean, if you think Zheg rhymes with zerg, you either need speech therapy or are just not all that intelligent - at which point it would be cruel to argue with you. I'm currently leaning towards the latter given that you're calling someone who played solo or duo for 6+ months, and recently in groups <=24, a zergling.

And @Sypher , come now, you're honestly going to say you had no foresight that a thread like this would turn into yet another hysterics-focused rant about whatever arbitrary number someone picked to start saying zerg? I tend to give you a little more credit than that. While I see no problems with adopting an even distribution system for AP (and see little value to AP to even begin with...), AP distribution has been the same since launch; there have been no additions or changes made to that system to promote or discourage solo/small/large group play that should suddenly make this a pressing issue all of a sudden, so if I'm reading between the lines you can't blame me for suspecting this is just another attempt to stoke the flames against group play, for which you could have picked a better cause or contributed to any number of the other threads doing that. I mean, you frame the thread title as "why do zergs get this", and then your OP does math for 1 to 4 and then 24 people. How SHOULD something like that be interpreted? Most would interpret that as you saying 24 people is a zerg, or anything lower but still close to that. Given the things you say, one could even go so far as to assume something like 12 would be a zerg in your eyes considering the way you've framed this thread.

The way AP is awarded is probably on the same scale as ice trebs not being as good as fire trebs in terms of priorities for pvp right now. Healers tend to make more AP than every other role in pvp, is that even and balanced? No. Is that important right now? No. There are far bigger fish to fry, as you should well know.

As for the incentives for large group play, while you and others seem to obviously loathe it, you all tend to conveniently forget the promos for ESO and descriptions of cyrodiil being for large-scale pvp. Maybe the devs actually WANTED to encourage more than 8 people in a group for large scale pvp, and while still allowing it and keeping it perfectly viable, provide disincentives for everyone to run around solo or in a small group as that impedes the ability for alliances to focus on map objectives.

24 people is a zerg..this shouldn't be up for argument.

That's one group....

Exactly, how can you be a zerg with one group?

kevlarto_ESO

I get what your saying Sypher, and it looks like there might be some changes coming , me and my friends were doing some numbers, and why would our group of 5 get less ap per person, than a group of 20 that killed the same player ? if they remove the profit from zerging maybe we will see less zerging.

Maybe they should give zergs in cyrodiil the TV treatment, anything more than 12 and some people get nothing, and why are we allowed to have 24 in cyrodiil and not 12 like the raids in the game.

Minno

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Bigger question is who cares about AP? These days most guilds I know play for fun fights and objective completions than AP. Even the farming groups are really just attempts to get high number of kills as opposed to high amounts of AP.

Everyone cares about AP. AP is for leaderboards and alliance war ranks and abilities.
I'm surprised a zer..I mean raid leader like yourself question the importance of AP and its demand.
tsk tsk... /disappointed.

Zheg wrote: »

Same reason why most games give bonuses of some kind to groups, whether it's exp or otherwise. It's an mmo. It's supposed to be social, group up.

AP is still fine if you can find good ganking while solo, but why should solo play be optimal when Cyrodiil is meant for mass pvp?

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like you're trying to figure out why people in pvp groups gain more AP than you, and it's not because of the formula you posted. They simply kill more people over the same period of time than you could find solo running between objectives to gank in a field. You have to pick your fights while solo, you can't challenge another raid group. PVP groups have more options, as they should.

Spoken like a true zergling.

On a totally unrelated note... Zheg rhymes with Zerg. Fascinating !

#LetsSocialize
#24v1Style

jkjk

I mean, if you think Zheg rhymes with zerg, you either need speech therapy or are just not all that intelligent - at which point it would be cruel to argue with you. I'm currently leaning towards the latter given that you're calling someone who played solo or duo for 6+ months, and recently in groups <=24, a zergling.

And @Sypher , come now, you're honestly going to say you had no foresight that a thread like this would turn into yet another hysterics-focused rant about whatever arbitrary number someone picked to start saying zerg? I tend to give you a little more credit than that. While I see no problems with adopting an even distribution system for AP (and see little value to AP to even begin with...), AP distribution has been the same since launch; there have been no additions or changes made to that system to promote or discourage solo/small/large group play that should suddenly make this a pressing issue all of a sudden, so if I'm reading between the lines you can't blame me for suspecting this is just another attempt to stoke the flames against group play, for which you could have picked a better cause or contributed to any number of the other threads doing that. I mean, you frame the thread title as "why do zergs get this", and then your OP does math for 1 to 4 and then 24 people. How SHOULD something like that be interpreted? Most would interpret that as you saying 24 people is a zerg, or anything lower but still close to that. Given the things you say, one could even go so far as to assume something like 12 would be a zerg in your eyes considering the way you've framed this thread.

The way AP is awarded is probably on the same scale as ice trebs not being as good as fire trebs in terms of priorities for pvp right now. Healers tend to make more AP than every other role in pvp, is that even and balanced? No. Is that important right now? No. There are far bigger fish to fry, as you should well know.

As for the incentives for large group play, while you and others seem to obviously loathe it, you all tend to conveniently forget the promos for ESO and descriptions of cyrodiil being for large-scale pvp. Maybe the devs actually WANTED to encourage more than 8 people in a group for large scale pvp, and while still allowing it and keeping it perfectly viable, provide disincentives for everyone to run around solo or in a small group as that impedes the ability for alliances to focus on map objectives.

24 people is a zerg..this shouldn't be up for argument.

That's one group....

Exactly, how can you be a zerg with one group?

Standard pve group is 12 total. Pvp raids, for some reason are 24.

Double the numbers from 12-man (of which 12 is viable and many groups already claim to have only 12-15 at a time) suggests the pvp standard, is in fact, a "zerg".

Zerg term open to argument, but to lighten the mood, its easier for my phone to type " zerg" than "ball-groups".(also autocorrect natively won't change zerg on me lol)

Sypher

Psilent wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Bigger question is who cares about AP? These days most guilds I know play for fun fights and objective completions than AP. Even the farming groups are really just attempts to get high number of kills as opposed to high amounts of AP.

Everyone cares about AP. AP is for leaderboards and alliance war ranks and abilities.
I'm surprised a zer..I mean raid leader like yourself question the importance of AP and its demand.
tsk tsk... /disappointed.

Zheg wrote: »

Same reason why most games give bonuses of some kind to groups, whether it's exp or otherwise. It's an mmo. It's supposed to be social, group up.

AP is still fine if you can find good ganking while solo, but why should solo play be optimal when Cyrodiil is meant for mass pvp?

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like you're trying to figure out why people in pvp groups gain more AP than you, and it's not because of the formula you posted. They simply kill more people over the same period of time than you could find solo running between objectives to gank in a field. You have to pick your fights while solo, you can't challenge another raid group. PVP groups have more options, as they should.

Spoken like a true zergling.

On a totally unrelated note... Zheg rhymes with Zerg. Fascinating !

#LetsSocialize
#24v1Style

jkjk

I mean, if you think Zheg rhymes with zerg, you either need speech therapy or are just not all that intelligent - at which point it would be cruel to argue with you. I'm currently leaning towards the latter given that you're calling someone who played solo or duo for 6+ months, and recently in groups <=24, a zergling.

And @Sypher , come now, you're honestly going to say you had no foresight that a thread like this would turn into yet another hysterics-focused rant about whatever arbitrary number someone picked to start saying zerg? I tend to give you a little more credit than that. While I see no problems with adopting an even distribution system for AP (and see little value to AP to even begin with...), AP distribution has been the same since launch; there have been no additions or changes made to that system to promote or discourage solo/small/large group play that should suddenly make this a pressing issue all of a sudden, so if I'm reading between the lines you can't blame me for suspecting this is just another attempt to stoke the flames against group play, for which you could have picked a better cause or contributed to any number of the other threads doing that. I mean, you frame the thread title as "why do zergs get this", and then your OP does math for 1 to 4 and then 24 people. How SHOULD something like that be interpreted? Most would interpret that as you saying 24 people is a zerg, or anything lower but still close to that. Given the things you say, one could even go so far as to assume something like 12 would be a zerg in your eyes considering the way you've framed this thread.

The way AP is awarded is probably on the same scale as ice trebs not being as good as fire trebs in terms of priorities for pvp right now. Healers tend to make more AP than every other role in pvp, is that even and balanced? No. Is that important right now? No. There are far bigger fish to fry, as you should well know.

As for the incentives for large group play, while you and others seem to obviously loathe it, you all tend to conveniently forget the promos for ESO and descriptions of cyrodiil being for large-scale pvp. Maybe the devs actually WANTED to encourage more than 8 people in a group for large scale pvp, and while still allowing it and keeping it perfectly viable, provide disincentives for everyone to run around solo or in a small group as that impedes the ability for alliances to focus on map objectives.

24 people is a zerg..this shouldn't be up for argument.

That's one group....

6 groups. 24 people is 6 groups.

I swear to all that is good that if we start acting like 24 people doesn't constitute a zerg then our poor little servers will commit suicide before we break them ourselves.

Anything wrong with running 24 people? No. Sometimes other factions are running 50 people groups and you need a solid 24 man raid to fight back properly. But let's not pretend that 24 people = 1 group, with that mentality we can kiss server performance goodbye.

Minno

Sypher wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Bigger question is who cares about AP? These days most guilds I know play for fun fights and objective completions than AP. Even the farming groups are really just attempts to get high number of kills as opposed to high amounts of AP.

Everyone cares about AP. AP is for leaderboards and alliance war ranks and abilities.
I'm surprised a zer..I mean raid leader like yourself question the importance of AP and its demand.
tsk tsk... /disappointed.

Zheg wrote: »

Same reason why most games give bonuses of some kind to groups, whether it's exp or otherwise. It's an mmo. It's supposed to be social, group up.

AP is still fine if you can find good ganking while solo, but why should solo play be optimal when Cyrodiil is meant for mass pvp?

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it seems like you're trying to figure out why people in pvp groups gain more AP than you, and it's not because of the formula you posted. They simply kill more people over the same period of time than you could find solo running between objectives to gank in a field. You have to pick your fights while solo, you can't challenge another raid group. PVP groups have more options, as they should.

Spoken like a true zergling.

On a totally unrelated note... Zheg rhymes with Zerg. Fascinating !

#LetsSocialize
#24v1Style

jkjk

I mean, if you think Zheg rhymes with zerg, you either need speech therapy or are just not all that intelligent - at which point it would be cruel to argue with you. I'm currently leaning towards the latter given that you're calling someone who played solo or duo for 6+ months, and recently in groups <=24, a zergling.

And @Sypher , come now, you're honestly going to say you had no foresight that a thread like this would turn into yet another hysterics-focused rant about whatever arbitrary number someone picked to start saying zerg? I tend to give you a little more credit than that. While I see no problems with adopting an even distribution system for AP (and see little value to AP to even begin with...), AP distribution has been the same since launch; there have been no additions or changes made to that system to promote or discourage solo/small/large group play that should suddenly make this a pressing issue all of a sudden, so if I'm reading between the lines you can't blame me for suspecting this is just another attempt to stoke the flames against group play, for which you could have picked a better cause or contributed to any number of the other threads doing that. I mean, you frame the thread title as "why do zergs get this", and then your OP does math for 1 to 4 and then 24 people. How SHOULD something like that be interpreted? Most would interpret that as you saying 24 people is a zerg, or anything lower but still close to that. Given the things you say, one could even go so far as to assume something like 12 would be a zerg in your eyes considering the way you've framed this thread.

The way AP is awarded is probably on the same scale as ice trebs not being as good as fire trebs in terms of priorities for pvp right now. Healers tend to make more AP than every other role in pvp, is that even and balanced? No. Is that important right now? No. There are far bigger fish to fry, as you should well know.

As for the incentives for large group play, while you and others seem to obviously loathe it, you all tend to conveniently forget the promos for ESO and descriptions of cyrodiil being for large-scale pvp. Maybe the devs actually WANTED to encourage more than 8 people in a group for large scale pvp, and while still allowing it and keeping it perfectly viable, provide disincentives for everyone to run around solo or in a small group as that impedes the ability for alliances to focus on map objectives.

24 people is a zerg..this shouldn't be up for argument.

That's one group....

6 groups. 24 people is 6 groups.

I swear to all that is good that if we start acting like 24 people doesn't constitute a zerg then our poor little servers will commit suicide before we break them ourselves.

Anything wrong with running 24 people? No. Sometimes other factions are running 50 people groups and you need a solid 24 man raid to fight back properly. But let's not pretend that 24 people = 1 group, with that mentality we can kiss server performance goodbye.

I forgot about the dungeon pve group size of 4 people total in my post lol

Your group size refers to the "sub grouping" in the raid format? (I remember it being either 5 - 6. ). If so, its very viable as another numerical reason why 24 player raid = a zerg.