Hexyl wrote: »

learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?

that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u

Pretty spot on. I macro all my animation cancels. Takes zero skill what so ever. Its a dumb mechanic.

Chims wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?

that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u

Pretty spot on. I macro all my animation cancels. Takes zero skill what so ever. Its a dumb mechanic.

Isn't macro'ing illegal by ZOS's rules and regs? It has been for the longest of time?

Hexyl wrote: »

learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?

that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u

These are the kind of things you start saying when you cant win any fights 1v1.

Chori wrote: »

I find it funny that most of the people that post here is completelly ignoring the fact that in order to animation cancel accordingly you need to have semi decent ping(ms), and this is very limiting to every player that is not even close to the server or that has to play on more than 200-300ms.

I see players saying L2P and if someone told me that, then I will answer I did/I'm in the proccess to. That still doesn't give anybody the right to keep their head up their ass and not realize that the game has to follow a course reaching the greater good for the health of the playerbase and the numbers of players you get to play with and against every day.

No counterplay because I can spam 4 abilities in 1 second and a half, every second and a half, it is not healthy for any game. No counter play because we cannot see what we are being hit with, is not healthy for any game. Specially when everybody is limited to several things like MS, FPS, packet loss, balance, and every other thing we suffer on here.

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

I find it funny that most of the people that post here is completelly ignoring the fact that in order to animation cancel accordingly you need to have semi decent ping(ms), and this is very limiting to every player that is not even close to the server or that has to play on more than 200-300ms.

I see players saying L2P and if someone told me that, then I will answer I did/I'm in the proccess to. That still doesn't give anybody the right to keep their head up their ass and not realize that the game has to follow a course reaching the greater good for the health of the playerbase and the numbers of players you get to play with and against every day.

No counterplay because I can spam 4 abilities in 1 second and a half, every second and a half, it is not healthy for any game. No counter play because we cannot see what we are being hit with, is not healthy for any game. Specially when everybody is limited to several things like MS, FPS, packet loss, balance, and every other thing we suffer on here.

No offense but that's kind of a personal problem, there are minimum requirements for a reason. Many people play with good latency, you can't re-engineer the combat system for some people with latency issues, and even if you tried it wouldn't fix your latency anyway.

Nonetheless I know very competitive players with high latency.

Nothing personal on latency issues, I can animation cancel just fine weaving attacks with for example my personal ping and I am not complaining at that. I'm pretty sure other people have a different point of view on what I said and that's cool. What I'm saying is not everybody has it as easy and possible as some others have. Nobody can also deny that performance issues are making it even worse and that whether we like it or not affects the amount of people we play with/against everyday.

Extra notes when it comes to requirements, my rig mets them.

I personally don't want to see a game I love with less players everyday, becuase certain issues are not being fixed/addressed and proper counterplay offered. Do you?

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

I find it funny that most of the people that post here is completelly ignoring the fact that in order to animation cancel accordingly you need to have semi decent ping(ms), and this is very limiting to every player that is not even close to the server or that has to play on more than 200-300ms.

I see players saying L2P and if someone told me that, then I will answer I did/I'm in the proccess to. That still doesn't give anybody the right to keep their head up their ass and not realize that the game has to follow a course reaching the greater good for the health of the playerbase and the numbers of players you get to play with and against every day.

No counterplay because I can spam 4 abilities in 1 second and a half, every second and a half, it is not healthy for any game. No counter play because we cannot see what we are being hit with, is not healthy for any game. Specially when everybody is limited to several things like MS, FPS, packet loss, balance, and every other thing we suffer on here.

No offense but that's kind of a personal problem, there are minimum requirements for a reason. Many people play with good latency, you can't re-engineer the combat system for some people with latency issues, and even if you tried it wouldn't fix your latency anyway.

Nonetheless I know very competitive players with high latency.

Nothing personal on latency issues, I can animation cancel just fine weaving attacks with for example my personal ping and I am not complaining at that. I'm pretty sure other people have a different point of view on what I said and that's cool. What I'm saying is not everybody has it as easy and possible as some others have. Nobody can also deny that performance issues are making it even worse and that whether we like it or not affects the amount of people we play with/against everyday.

Extra notes when it comes to requirements, my rig mets them.

I personally don't want to see a game I love with less players everyday, becuase certain issues are not being fixed/addressed and proper counterplay offered. Do you?

You can't make something that pleases everyone, and you can't build a game like this that offers the same performance experience to everyone in the world (hence US and EU servers, sorry Aussie / JPN etc).

Issues not being addressed is another story, but one that has nothing to do with animation cancel. People have left PvP in droves over ZOS' overwhelming lack of communication and support. The changes they deliver are consistently hated by the customer, they leave bugs unfixed for months even when it's reported in PTS, again nothing to do with the topic. Does any hardcore ESO PvPer actually enjoy IC??? They promised so much more than we got, they catered to people who whine on the forums and it warped our end result. The same kind of people who start threads like this, who refuse to understand the thing they complain about. Blindly asking for unnecessary nerfs until the game is on such a basic level that it's not enjoyable to everyone and they quit anyway.

I digress.

No game can ever make something everybody likes completely, that's given. Doesn't mean they can stop pursuing ways to make it better. Iirc they said sometime in this last two months they were going to work around animation cancel and god knows what will they do, I'm still hoping for the best.

Animation cancel could be an issue still, among the many not being addressed, or not something they want to deal with for several reasons since it's already stated as an unintended mechanic by ZoS.

Edit: I liked IC just because I came from a PK game where you could kill people that were farming or doing something else so it actually brought sweet memories to me.

I think people have different definitions for terms like button mashing than I do.
And a different understanding of how latency effects things.

Here's how I do things when I'm playing a character with a strong instant cast attack:

I'll start to charge a heavy attack (holding down one mouse button) gauge my surroundings - how long until I'm going to take damage? What's my health at? What's my enemy health at? What are my resources like?
This results in either a light, partially charged or fully charged heavy attack.

Then 'animation cancel' the resulting light/heavy attack with a cast ability. Usually I'll have 1 or 2 instants on a bar

If I'm in melee and a bash would be useful, I animation cancel that ability with a bash.
If I'm in danger of taking damage I'll animation cancel the cast ability with a block or dodge.

I'm also adjusting my positioning during this, either moving or jumping to offset the slowdown from the heavy attack.


This then repeats when my light attack cool down has elapsed.
In no case am I rewarded for hitting buttons faster than cooldowns allow.

Of note:
This sort of animation canceling is not effected by my ping, which varies between 120 and 250ish
I believe these are mostly/all client side, as far as clipping one action with the next. (validated by server side cooldowns)

I don't see how a macro could possibly help me in this scenario , my attack sequence and timing are dictated by what's going on at the time.

---
I've button mashed in other games.
E.g. Party games that make you spam a button as fast as humanly possible
Or
Fighting games I don't understand the mechanics of - hitting buttons rapidly and pseudo randomly

Neither of those are like what I've described above - if you think animation canceling rewards button mashing.. Please define what you mean by that.
---

I like the current animation canceling system, though I think animation times should be shortened whenever possible on instant attacks, and in game quests/docs should describe the system in greater detail.

Waffennacht wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

---

I like the current animation canceling system, though I think animation times should be shortened whenever possible on instant attacks, and in game quests/docs should describe the system in greater detail.

Absolutely agree, if it is gonna stick around (which im pretty sure it is) they really need a tutorial for it. This would go a long way in making players feel like its intentional and possible

ZOS should embrace it more and offer official tutorials, the intro to PvP is virtually non-existent.

But the better side of the community has stepped in many times to educate users. Pay special attention to Lefty Lucy as he explains things with great detail.

Lefty Lucy

Advanced Guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Deltia

Controls Setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqUx8zU08w

Guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb0O9zjMDN4

This topic is too far gone.. Animation cancelling was given the "Go Ahead" by Zos long ago.

so much of the content and mechanics are TUNED with animation cancelling in mind.

And honestly what's the problem?

Chaning anything at this point would introduce a ton of work and potential another whole tank of issues and new balance adjustments.

basically no..

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Jowrik wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

There isn't anything wrong with animation canceling as it stands, it's an extra layer of responsiveness that many people enjoy.

Taking it away would slow down combat way too much.

Essentially you could speed up the animations, and still achieve the same thing as animation skipping allows today. The benefit would be that you would also get full complete good looking animations, instead of the invisible/spasm/half-finished fidgeting hits we have today.

No that's not how it works.

Animation canceling is a layer of "skill", as in it's something one should practice to get better at to do more consistently. The game can be viewed as a mindless button smash, but removing canceling and speeding up animations would worsen this. It separates one person from another, allows for variations in build numbers that otherwise wouldn't exist if everyone consistently hit at the same speed.

In the case of ESO, animation canceling is good.

lol wtf. Layer of skill? Animation cancelling is the exact definition of button mashing. Mash buttons with no respect to your enemy.

Animation cancelling, for the sake of this thread can be fixed. Damage simply needs to be tied to the ending animation frames instead of halfway through.

Out of all the unnecessary "solutions" to this imaginary problem, yours is the worst I've ever seen. People would waste time on cancelled attacks frequently... it would be incredibly frustrating. Then, in order to compensate, players would slow their attacks WAY down, so slow that they were wasting a second or more in between attacks, just to make sure they didn't miss one. And THEN you know what would happen?

Everyone and their mother would start using MACROS in order to time their attacks perfectly so that they don't waste time or cancel attacks by mistake. Your "solution" would cause more cheating than ESO has seen yet.

WOAH WOAH WOAH!

Pulling attacks to defend?! ITS LIKE THE NEWEST CONCEPT EVER! Except it isn't.

No more endless offensive DPS races? Actually have to use proper timing and positioning not just smash buttons? Nope, can't have that.

Not only that but why the *** would you make a macro to "time your attack perfectly" when you can do that already by pressing a button on your keyboard whilst you are in the proper position to attack? This macro example is so bad I honestly have no idea wtf you are talking about.

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

"Skill Weaving" adds complexity and dynamics to the combat system. If your only gripe is that the animation doesn't match what is happening, then request the animations be shortened. The combat system is more intuitive than any other I've played.

I sincerely hope ZOS never makes this game a boring combat copy of other games where I can literally take a smoke break after activating an ability while watching my animations.

ps. block casting is not lazy, it's the opposite actually. NOT blocking is lazy. Plus they addressed this with the no stam regen while blocking. moving on.

Hexyl wrote: »

learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?

that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u

Here's an obligatory L2P post for you. Where is my LOL button?! Skill weaving (aka animation canceling, whatever you want to call it) is SO FREAKING EASY. Just get over it and L2P already. No macros needed.

Lol! (lol button pressed). Consider those with higher ping (but still considered acceptable levels); they're dead or taking extreme damage before they even realise the attacks have happened (in PvP at least). Animation cancelling was an extremely unbalanced anomaly to enter this game.
ON THE OTHER HAND. It's too embedded in the game now to argue over it too much except to acknowledge that yes, people who play with anything of about 250+ ping are at an extreme disadvantage. The only thing we can now do about it is learn to live with it and learn how to do it or change games. So on this point, the OP and quoted player are correct; animation cancelling is both smart play of the mechanics and absolute b*ll sh*t at the same time.
I remember one post ages ago of someone claiming how intelligent it was and was trying to teach players how to do it, I agreed with the post as it was trying to bring all players onto a fair playing field, but it doesn't cancel the fact that given this game is real time, it makes it extremely unbalanced in some areas.

Jura23 wrote: »

Fellhand_ESO wrote: »

I like the pace of the combat, just wish it looked like we were actually fighting rather than having seizures.

This. This. This.

The fact that ZOS didn't include all this into development of the game so they were actually surprised when animation cancelling became a thing just shows huge incompetence. And I want them to solve this esthetic problem, because it's their responsibility.

Personally I would love it if they could (well I guess I used to, looking at other games atm), but I also believe it's too engrained into their coding of the game system and untangling it would cause a meltdown.

They could do something that Warhammer Online did, implement global cool-down limits.

I agree that the animation canceling should be removed from the game. But I am afraid that if ZoS do it they will break the combat and they will need 3-6 months to make it smooth again.

The only animation that I cannot cancel consistently is the Fear . Everytime my DK put his hands on his head. Sometimes I am so pissed off that I want to do the same movement. At least I do another sound which is more like swearing.