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A desperate plea for ZOS: Please remove Animation cancelling..
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Ferretstalker✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Animation cancelling, for the sake of this thread can be fixed. Damage simply needs to be tied to the ending animation frames instead of halfway through.
This is what should happen. For truly reactive gameplay, players should be able to see the attack coming and be given a chance to defend against it. Animation cancelling should cancel the attack, not limit reactive gameplay and visual cues (you know, those ZOS used to market ESO to begin with).3 -
Reevster✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »If ZOS likes it, I think that animation canceling is here to stay. Unintended or not, it makes the combat feel more responsive because you are not waiting for some animation to end before the next attack. Button mashing is much more satisfying when the buttons actually do something.
Without animation canceling, people will say the game is laggy or that the game is unresponsive. People will /unsubscribe and there will be many vocal complaints about how ZOS nerfed the game, listened to the wrong people, did not listen to the people, etc.
If ZOS is good with animation canceling, their best play is to leave it alone. They cannot win if they change it.
Dont agree with this at all, tell me what the point is to have 1.7 sec skill that can be done in .2 seconds? Why put these times on any skill if it can just be "Canceled"
Fix this problem and maybe we can play the game how its suppose to be played, and not by manipulating skills that have a set timer , this is actually abuse and against thier own rules so not sure why this abuse has been going on for so long.
Probably more people unsub because of animation canceling then would without it. ie abuse in PvP etc.Edited by Reevster on February 1, 2016 4:21AM0 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.4 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?Edited by VincentBlanquin on February 1, 2016 12:14PMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.4 -
Reevster✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
I dont think you get it, if a skill has a timer of 2 seconds , then how can making that skill work in .1 or .2 of a second be proper game play let alone be fair to the guy that gets WB in his face in .2 seconds then another baragre of skills in the next .2 seconds when the WB skill should still be activating. Its broken , has been for some time, its just the Hard Core PvPers dont want to lose the (unfair) advantage using these exploits.
Either get rid of all timers and make everything "instant" or get rid of canceling , anything in between is exploiting.0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
I dont think you get it, if a skill has a timer of 2 seconds , then how can making that skill work in .1 or .2 of a second be proper game play let alone be fair to the guy that gets WB in his face in .2 seconds then another baragre of skills in the next .2 seconds when the WB skill should still be activating. Its broken , has been for some time, its just the Hard Core PvPers dont want to lose the (unfair) advantage using these exploits.
Either get rid of all timers and make everything "instant" or get rid of canceling , anything in between is exploiting.
Again, this is not how it works. You do not use AC, otherwise you wouldn't write this.
This is what animation cancelling really is.
EDIT: Also, check out animation cancelling videos, pratice, and come back. Then, your input should be considered.Edited by Asmael on February 1, 2016 3:42PMPC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.4 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭I regularly AC with light attack ransack bash. The light attack anf the ransack are both nigh on invisible.
It's not skillful. It is just button mashing practice. It is no more or less skillful than timing curse, det streak and comet to land at the same time. It's just one particular method of mashing buttons.
It is a stupid system. In a game where the animations are vital visual cues, we are permitted to circumvent them by shortening the animation but still being given the damage.
It is up there with #AOECAPS.
All skills damage should land at the end of the animation just like rapid manoeuvre. Rapid is instant but you don't get the speed boost if you cancel before the chars arms go up into the air (an internal wind up, even on instant skills) skills should be able to be cancelled via block, dodge or weapon swap but, crucially, if you interrupt the skill then the damage should not fire.
This would make combat just as fluid, provide more visual cues and feel more responsive because your player does exactly what you tell it to do.
It would slightly slow down fights.
Encounters could then be balanced around intended player dps rather than unintended superspesd.
Edited by Frawr on February 1, 2016 3:59PM5 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
of course i do anim canceling. its the only way do anything. but result is few fotm builds around that are builded around it and nothing more. no tactics, no thinking, only muscle memory machines running around ...Edited by VincentBlanquin on February 1, 2016 4:37PMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
of course i do anim canceling. its the only way do anything. but result is few fotm builds around that are builded around it and nothing more. no tactics, no thinking, only muscle memory machines running around ...
I vastly prefer being a 'muscle memory machine' to this.
Edited by Shunravi on February 1, 2016 5:19PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!2 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
of course i do anim canceling. its the only way do anything. but result is few fotm builds around that are builded around it and nothing more. no tactics, no thinking, only muscle memory machines running around ...
I vastly prefer being a 'muscle memory machine' than this.
understand . you have ambush associated with key Y ))))Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
of course i do anim canceling. its the only way do anything. but result is few fotm builds around that are builded around it and nothing more. no tactics, no thinking, only muscle memory machines running around ...
I vastly prefer being a 'muscle memory machine' than this.
understand . you have ambush associated with key Y ))))
Naw, I barely use it
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Can you imagine how boring pvp would be if you and a similar build faced off against each other with no AC? It would be like going punch for punch over a span of multiple hours with nothing happening. Keep AC because it allows a level of skill rather than one button smashing. Also you are NOT getting hit with 5 attacks in 1 second... that is NOT animation cancelling so is irrelevant and cannot be used to support the argument that AC needs to be removed.
one button mashing is exactly what we have now with animation cancelling
Actually it's 3 button mashing for me, rebinding my interrupt key so I actually have to twist my hand around the keyboard while still trying to cast defensive abilities at the same time.
In short, skill.
What people seem to want is an idiotic, less dynamic combat system.
if you see 3 buttons muscle memory mashing as mark of skill, then you have right. but man, its still only 3 buttons mashing, no matter how dynamic it looks like. why are you so low people, to be happy with this?
I'm trying to stay calm and understanding here because you obviously don't get it, and that's ok. Do you animation cancel? I'm sure even the people against it do it in some way without realising, because it has been fine-grained into the combat system for so long.
Even tampering with it is a mistake imho, and I've downloaded the PTS just so I can test it when it gets deployed, because I have a bad feeling they are going to screw it up.
Muscle memory or not, you're doing the extra work and the benefits should be there to back it up. I guarantee you the combat in ESO would be extremely boring if people were limited to only one button mashing, because with the removal of animation cancelling, that's what you'll get. This game would turn into people drooling over their keyboards while smashing one button at a time. Does that sound like fun? Or would you rather learn how to master animation cancelling to help enhance your DPS and survivability in a fast-paced, dynamic environment?
As a solo PVPer, it's the only thing that gives me any benefit against todays zergs. If I had to wait for every animation to play out it would be absolutely ridiculous, and it would kill any enjoyment this game has left for me, and many others.
I will defend animation cancelling to the very end.
of course i do anim canceling. its the only way do anything. but result is few fotm builds around that are builded around it and nothing more. no tactics, no thinking, only muscle memory machines running around ...
I vastly prefer being a 'muscle memory machine' than this.
understand . you have ambush associated with key Y ))))
Naw, I barely use it
so you wanna tell that before eso you play games where combat was pressing one button?
OMG, luckily i dont gaming (online) at that era, but listen its not about eso or 1button games, there are more games and diversity even now and other games go live soon ....Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
karakondzula✭✭✭AC is class balance breaker, thats the main issue. Personally i would remove it but if thats not possible i would love if they can make animation visible just faster or something. For me its one of major things that turn me off in this game, its just look bad and rubbish for TES game. It punishes people with higher ping as well. Lot of people talk about skill when it comes to AC but in reality real skill in this game comes with smart use of your resources and build. I guess they just wanna burn noobs as fast as they can, i call it streamer syndrome. And for those who say that AC removal would make combat slow and stupid i suggest they look up early game videos.0 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭and most important. SKILL always goes together with VARIETY. eso pvp is not easy to master but variety isnt there .....Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭karakondzula wrote: »AC is class balance breaker, thats the main issue. Personally i would remove it but if thats not possible i would love if they can make animation visible just faster or something. For me its one of major things that turn me off in this game, its just look bad and rubbish for TES game. It punishes people with higher ping as well. Lot of people talk about skill when it comes to AC but in reality real skill in this game comes with smart use of your resources and build. I guess they just wanna burn noobs as fast as they can, i call it streamer syndrome. And for those who say that AC removal would make combat slow and stupid i suggest they look up early game videos.
lol, this thread again.
The Age of Wrobel.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Implement animation cancelling as a proper feature instead of a side effect of crappy coding and all is fine.4 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Implement animation cancelling as a proper feature instead of a side effect of crappy coding and all is fine.
If they are tightening up animations, it sounds like this is what they are doing. (To me at least)This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Implement animation cancelling as a proper feature instead of a side effect of crappy coding and all is fine.
If they are tightening up animations, it sounds like this is what they are doing. (To me at least)
What scares me the most is I still have no idea what they mean by that or how it's going to work. Guess we'll find out soon!1 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Luckily animation cancelling is not going anywhere and you should qq about something else. There is plenty to qq about I.e. Lag and... Well lag.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?
that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u
This is absolutely false. Seeing the post made me laugh.
You and your friends might macro everything you do, but that is not representative of the community on the whole. I personally know dozens of people who actually practice animation cancelling to get good at it. It's a combat mechanic that you have chosen to accommodate with laziness, which is the only true joke I see surrounding the topic.1 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's really bad game design. Not much to say about that.
But they already came out saying it wasn't intended but it's fine the way it is, so I wouldn't expect them to remove it and implement a decent combat system in its place.
What annoys me the most is that it turns the game into a frantic mash-mess (some people would call it "fast-paced", I believe) instead of the tactical use of resources it was envisioned and advertised as.
Being able to cancel actions means there is no commitment to anything. Yet the whole original combat concept with power attacks, casts, blocks, interrupts, etc revolved around just that: Commiting to a stronger attack, but in turn opening yourself up for exploits.
There are games that work like this. Dark Souls comes to mind. Which is why I'm not buying this false dichotomy that abandoning AC would turn the game into one-button affairs. In DS, you have attacks of differing cost, start ups, recoveries, etc, which makes it not only impossible but unfavorable to spam one attack. Mashing your hardest attack over and over again is the fastest way to ruin.
And then, there is Wrecking Blow spam. Which is not an issue of AC per se, but the underlying issue of lacking commitment.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Getting hit by 4-5 attacks in half a second is poor game design.
Also, they clearly had a problem with animation cancelling when it was used to toggle abilities, seems like an arbitrary place to draw the line when you consider most summons were garbage and not nearly as overpowered as attack cancelling.Edited by Cathexis on February 2, 2016 5:49AMThe Tomb of FPS Alteration Magic - Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Praise Malacath.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's really bad game design. Not much to say about that.
But they already came out saying it wasn't intended but it's fine the way it is, so I wouldn't expect them to remove it and implement a decent combat system in its place.
What annoys me the most is that it turns the game into a frantic mash-mess (some people would call it "fast-paced", I believe) instead of the tactical use of resources it was envisioned and advertised as.
Being able to cancel actions means there is no commitment to anything. Yet the whole original combat concept with power attacks, casts, blocks, interrupts, etc revolved around just that: Commiting to a stronger attack, but in turn opening yourself up for exploits.
There are games that work like this. Dark Souls comes to mind. Which is why I'm not buying this false dichotomy that abandoning AC would turn the game into one-button affairs. In DS, you have attacks of differing cost, start ups, recoveries, etc, which makes it not only impossible but unfavorable to spam one attack. Mashing your hardest attack over and over again is the fastest way to ruin.
And then, there is Wrecking Blow spam. Which is not an issue of AC per se, but the underlying issue of lacking commitment.
Yes, resource management has been far more important in the past. And no, animation cancelling does not make it easier. It makes it way harder because you can easily spend a lot of stamina in a short time whatever you do besides that, and you have more incoming damage.
In fact I had to be a lot more concentrated to pull off decent animation cancelling in fights pre 1.6 because not doing so would cost me tons of resources, leading to my death.
ps: i realize the last sentence might sound confusing - i saved resources by pressuring my opponents. If i did not, then they'd be able tp pressure me more, wich costs more time and resources for me.Edited by ToRelax on February 2, 2016 1:10AMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Yaricx✭Now I may be wrong on some part, and if I am, I apologize. I saw it written above about a 2 second ability taking 0.2 or whatever. I have never seen this. I have never seen an instant WB or rapid etc.
As I understand it, AC works off of a priority system of block>bash>ability>weapon attack (meaning LA or HA). You cannot AC a channeled ability (cast time but I may be wrong on this. You can however discover when the animation ends where a new key press will be registered). You can also not cancel an ability with another ability that is on the same priority level.
It can seem like you you are getting hit by more when that is not the case especially if it is from dw.
A dw HA will show up as Two strikes ( listed as HA and the HA dual wield) which can be cancelled with an ability at the same time. The only possible way for another strike to be registered in the next second is if it was a bash.
The fact is, someone claiming to have received 3 suprise attacks in one second is wrong. Maybe they were lagging or has poor time lapse judgement.
BTW I don't play a stamblade.2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People are mixing up latency problems with animation cancelling since forever. The fact that you seemingly got hit by 3 abilities in less than a second has little to do with animation cancelling and everything with the way ESO deals with network latency.4 -
mattymaats✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Hiero_Glyph wrote: »The problem is that animation canceling is not done skillfully in ESO. If you compare ESO's animation cancels to that of your average shooter, where reload canceling is critical, you will note that every weapon has a different reload animation and requires intimate knowledge of exactly when the magazine is inserted and the reload actually registers so that you can cancel the animation. ESO is about as unskilled as you can get when it comes to animation cancels as you can literally light weave and never even see the light attack animation.
The only skills that require any amount of skill are the ones with cast times as you need to know eactly when you can clip them or use a followup action without aborting the current action. If ESO had skillful animation canceling then unskilled players would actually abort their own actions and severely handicap themselves. Instead, unskilled players still cancel the animation just with more of it animated before the next action is started. A skilled player can weave a light attack, skill, bash where you really only see the bash. An unskilled player can weave a light attack, skill, bash where you see the first portion of each attack but they still benefit despite not clipping these actions properly.
I'm sorry but that is not skilled play when you can do it poorly and still gain a huge benefit. The fact that you can cancel the entire animation just demonstrates how little ZOS undertands about skilled animation canceling. No competitive shooter would ever allow such a mistake in the game as it would break the fundamental balance of the weapons, so why is it alright for an ESO to do it?
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not against animation canceling but there should not be a way to cancel the entire animation as this would penalize unskilled players since they could actually abort their own action without gaining any benefit. If you animation cancel badly then you should be worse off than someone who is not using animation canceling. This would promote skillful play.
As I mentioned before, some abilities actually do take a loss in performance if they clipped improperly. Queuing additional attacks with many casts throws off the priority system by fractions of a second, and quickly adds up over time to equate to a total loss of attacks in comparison to non clipping or properly weaving them. I've done a lot of testing to prove this and it mainly deals with medium weaving attacks or attempting to clip casted/channeled abilities. Each failed attempt to weave adds anywhere from .3 to .5 seconds to the queued attack, which throws off your entire rotation over time. Lets say you have a fight like Hardmode Serpent in an average group. This fight lasts roughly 5-7 minutes and you end with nearly 400-500 overall preformed abilities. If you fail 80% of your queued attacks (or weaves) to the point of an average of the queue system gaining .4 seconds to each next attack, that would equate to loss of 128-160 seconds of combat, which would be ~ 60-80 abilities casted. Each priority system takes roughly 1-1.5 seconds to complete, if you're wondering where I'm getting these numbers from. Human error inflicts heavily upon weaving, and thus is why Macroing is often so tempting to succumb to (don't macro, even in PvE it totally makes you look like a jag, it is directly against ToS and the spirit of skill based competition). In PvP the loss incurred by human error or improper weaving is much more subtle as combat is less controlled and doesn't flow with more stationary fights, due to human vs human contact. The amount of skill one can learn and improve on with the Priority system is almost mind boggling, and a lot of people are completely unaware of just how deep ESO's combat can get.
I will trade your secrets for the soul of my first born...0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its cool, AC is getting neutered with the next update. So everyone who is defending it is going to be crying a river when TG expansion hits. You will no longer be able to completely cancel your animation, weaving will still be there, but complete cancellation of animations will no longer be possible.
Good on you ZoS.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its cool, AC is getting neutered with the next update. So everyone who is defending it is going to be crying a river when TG expansion hits. You will no longer be able to completely cancel your animation, weaving will still be there, but complete cancellation of animations will no longer be possible.
Good on you ZoS.
Seems you misunderstand what's actually going to happen. The animation will just not be invisible, which mostly effects instant cast abilities in PVP. Players will not be locked into them if their 'cancelled' with proper timing. The animation will just play while the player is inputing another.1