A desperate plea for ZOS: Please remove Animation cancelling..

Jowrik

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Animation Cancelling since day one, I still do it heavily when I play.

Animation Cancelling does not add a layer of skill, it adds a layer of advantages for people who have the frame rate and latency to successfully animation cancel. You might as well say your 50 ping means you have more skill than someone with a 200 ping.

We have great animations in ESO that act as cooldowns, please make them function properly.

Hearing this from a veteran ESO-player makes me happy i'm not the only veteran player still thinking about this.

Cuyler

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

"Skill Weaving" adds complexity and dynamics to the combat system. If your only gripe is that the animation doesn't match what is happening, then request the animations be shortened. The combat system is more intuitive than any other I've played.

I sincerely hope ZOS never makes this game a boring combat copy of other games where I can literally take a smoke break after activating an ability while watching my animations.

ps. block casting is not lazy, it's the opposite actually. NOT blocking is lazy. Plus they addressed this with the no stam regen while blocking. moving on.

Hexyl wrote: »

learn animation canceling ? skilled player use it ?

that joke. All players who use it, do it with macro. Macro is skilled ? u_u

Here's an obligatory L2P post for you. Where is my LOL button?! Skill weaving (aka animation canceling, whatever you want to call it) is SO FREAKING EASY. Just get over it and L2P already. No macros needed.

Lol! (lol button pressed). Consider those with higher ping (but still considered acceptable levels); they're dead or taking extreme damage before they even realise the attacks have happened (in PvP at least). Animation cancelling was an extremely unbalanced anomaly to enter this game.

I remember one post ages ago of someone claiming how intelligent it was and was trying to teach players how to do it, I agreed with the post as it was trying to bring all players onto a fair playing field, but it doesn't cancel the fact that given this game is real time, it makes it extremely unbalanced in some areas.

ZOS is supposed to balance the game around players who play on potatoes, with dial up connections or choose to join a server located on the other side of the world now?

Even when I played on the MacBook I was never audacious enough to suggest such selfish requests. The game has recommended system requirements for a reason, and ZOS spends millions to build servers "close" to where people live. It's not their fault that someone chooses to play on a server that is not located in their hemisphere. THE PLAYER takes on the responsibility associated with that choice, not ZOS.

Finally, the fact of the matter is that with or without animation cancelling, high latency will put you at an disadvantage. Myth debunked.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Animation Cancelling since day one, I still do it heavily when I play.

Animation Cancelling does not add a layer of skill, it adds a layer of advantages for people who have the frame rate and latency to successfully animation cancel. You might as well say your 50 ping means you have more skill than someone with a 200 ping.

We have great animations in ESO that act as cooldowns, please make them function properly.

No no....the latency excuse is the biggest cop out ever. I've played ESO on a MacBook that had consistently high latency (10-20 fps and 100+ ping) and a brand new PC gaming rig @90 fps on ultra <100 ping and I can tell you this rebuttle is just that, an excuse. I had no problems weaving when I was dealing with latency. What the latency arguments are about is a difference of milliseconds..... MILLISECONDS. It's just not an issue at that small a scale.

Lava_Croft

Jowrik wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Animation Cancelling since day one, I still do it heavily when I play.

Animation Cancelling does not add a layer of skill, it adds a layer of advantages for people who have the frame rate and latency to successfully animation cancel. You might as well say your 50 ping means you have more skill than someone with a 200 ping.

We have great animations in ESO that act as cooldowns, please make them function properly.

Hearing this from a veteran ESO-player makes me happy i'm not the only veteran player still thinking about this.

There's more out there

Jowrik

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jowrik wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Animation Cancelling since day one, I still do it heavily when I play.

Animation Cancelling does not add a layer of skill, it adds a layer of advantages for people who have the frame rate and latency to successfully animation cancel. You might as well say your 50 ping means you have more skill than someone with a 200 ping.

We have great animations in ESO that act as cooldowns, please make them function properly.

Hearing this from a veteran ESO-player makes me happy i'm not the only veteran player still thinking about this.

There's more out there

You're the only username I consistently recognise throught ESO's lifespan

Jowrik

Cuyler wrote: »

No no....the latency excuse is the biggest cop out ever. I've played ESO on a MacBook that had consistently high latency (10-20 fps and 100+ ping) and a brand new PC gaming rig @90 fps on ultra <100 ping and I can tell you this rebuttle is just that, an excuse. I had no problems weaving when I was dealing with latency. What the latency arguments are about is a difference of milliseconds..... MILLISECONDS. It's just not an issue at that small a scale.

You're not really stating any actual numbers sadly. 95 ping compared to 105 ping is indeed nothing noticeable. Though 50 ping to 150 ping is quite a bigger difference in responsetime. FPS does not really apply for this matter

Gilliamtherogue

Jowrik wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

No no....the latency excuse is the biggest cop out ever. I've played ESO on a MacBook that had consistently high latency (10-20 fps and 100+ ping) and a brand new PC gaming rig @90 fps on ultra <100 ping and I can tell you this rebuttle is just that, an excuse. I had no problems weaving when I was dealing with latency. What the latency arguments are about is a difference of milliseconds..... MILLISECONDS. It's just not an issue at that small a scale.

You're not really stating any actual numbers sadly. 95 ping compared to 105 ping is indeed nothing noticeable. Though 50 ping to 150 ping is quite a bigger difference in responsetime. FPS does not really apply for this matter

FPS actually makes a massive difference, since you need visual indicators of your animation to know when to most effectively begin or end your next attack. I raid with ~20 fps and the first week 2.1 hit all final boss fights with heavy particle effects would drop me and the raid to like 5 fps, and we all suffered from it. The damage output by the raid was heavily stunted by it, as no one could tell what their characters were doing in real time. FPS is huge, but it's not ZoS's job to balance end game poor performance, unless its their own fault for it happening (memory leaks, etc)

Cuyler

Jowrik wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

No no....the latency excuse is the biggest cop out ever. I've played ESO on a MacBook that had consistently high latency (10-20 fps and 100+ ping) and a brand new PC gaming rig @90 fps on ultra <100 ping and I can tell you this rebuttle is just that, an excuse. I had no problems weaving when I was dealing with latency. What the latency arguments are about is a difference of milliseconds..... MILLISECONDS. It's just not an issue at that small a scale.

You're not really stating any actual numbers sadly. 95 ping compared to 105 ping is indeed nothing noticeable. Though 50 ping to 150 ping is quite a bigger difference in responsetime. FPS does not really apply for this matter

Sorry, not in my experience. I had to be 300+ ping for it to make any difference and at that point, you're basically stuttering. But again is it ZOS's responsibility to balance the game around that? It's the responsibility of the players to meet the recommended requirements, purchase viable internet access, and use a server in their hemisphere, or else deal with the consequences of not doing so.

OdinForge

Cuyler wrote: »

Jowrik wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

No no....the latency excuse is the biggest cop out ever. I've played ESO on a MacBook that had consistently high latency (10-20 fps and 100+ ping) and a brand new PC gaming rig @90 fps on ultra <100 ping and I can tell you this rebuttle is just that, an excuse. I had no problems weaving when I was dealing with latency. What the latency arguments are about is a difference of milliseconds..... MILLISECONDS. It's just not an issue at that small a scale.

You're not really stating any actual numbers sadly. 95 ping compared to 105 ping is indeed nothing noticeable. Though 50 ping to 150 ping is quite a bigger difference in responsetime. FPS does not really apply for this matter

Sorry, not in my experience. I had to be 300+ ping for it to make any difference and at that point, you're basically stuttering. But again is it ZOS's responsibility to balance the game around that? It's the responsibility of the players to meet the recommended requirements, purchase viable internet access, and use a server in their hemisphere, or else deal with the consequences of not doing so.

It's impossible to balance a game, around the potential **** connections some people use. Aside from that it would be just plain nonsense that any studio would try. Especially ZOS, they took away our deer instead of fixing our problems.

They aren't re-engineering the entire combat system around people who play with 300+ ping.

Hiero_Glyph

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

timidobserver

The one thing I agree on is that animation cancelling is ugly. I don't want it nerfed or removed, but it should be changed to look less clunky. You would never display the current state of animation cancelling in a promo video.

Cuyler

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

Jowrik

Cuyler wrote: »

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

They can fix bugs and request servers all they want, the animation cancelling will still look clunky

OdinForge

Jowrik wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

They can fix bugs and request servers all they want, the animation cancelling will still look clunky

Looking clunky is simply a matter of opinion for you, mine is that it's satisfying to pull off correctly.

Fighting someone else with a tight animation cancel game is always exciting. Because if it didn't exist, fights would simply boil down more to who is pushing higher numbers than today.

zornyan

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

Poor excuses still.

I go away for long stints of work sometimes, my Mrs bought me a ps vita to use at work, so take this.

Using my vita at woek, tethered to my phone on a 4.6mbs average connection speed, with 800kbs upload speed, that's connected to my ps4 a few miles away, then connected to eso. Fps and speed is, well very slow.

I still manage to animation cancel, even using the *** rear TouchPad as l2 r2 for light and block.

Even won some 1v1 matches in cyrodil, one guy sent me a hate mail for calling me a n00b sweeps spammer, so I sent him a picture of the vita with it loaded up and me killing him. He didn't reply after that.

Bogdan_Kobzar

Just had another excellent idea,
have ZoS add program logic to the monsters/NPC's to use animation cancelling and attack weaving against players.

After all the elitist players flood tech support with bug reports, it'll be fixed.

Shunravi

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

Just had another excellent idea,
have ZoS add program logic to the monsters/NPC's to use animation cancelling and attack weaving against players.

After all the elitist players flood tech support with bug reports, it'll be fixed.

That would be awesome! Finally some interesting pve ai!

Hiero_Glyph

Cuyler wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

As I have noted in detail previously, clipping an entire enimation is not skilled animation canceling. ZOS did not design ESO to handle animation canceling in a balanced manner. The fact that they are accepting it is just a lazy resolution to a current problem. I agree that animation canceling is not the primary issue but leaving it as is only makes these issues all the worse.

All animations needs to be given mandatory portions that cannot be clipped short. Even instant abilities should still have some portion of their animation visually represented. This gives players time to react and also allows them to counter certain abilites with reflects or other defensive skills. This would promote skillful play as it allows every player a chance to react. Additionally it would make knowing when you can clip an animation critical as you could literally abort an action instead of just animation canceling it.

Could you imagine a 1v1 where a Sorc aborts their own damage shield animation by mistake? Yes, mistakes like that should be costly and if you mess up the other player should be given a chance to take advantage of your mistake. Additioanlly, requiring a mandatory portion of an animation allows players a chance to interrupt the ability. ZOS could balance certain abilities like they mistakenly did with Wrecking Blow so that spamming interrupts would not work. Again, it's about balancing the animation canceling by giving players a chance to react according to what visual cues they see, not about seeing who can cancel the most animations in the shortest amount of time.

Anyway, ZOS has a lot of work before Cyrodiil is working properly so fixing animation canceling is secondary to general performance issues but it is worth noting that the way ZOS implemented animation canceling demonstrates their inexperience in this area.

Jowrik

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

As I have noted in detail previously, clipping an entire enimation is not skilled animation canceling. ZOS did not design ESO to handle animation canceling in a balanced manner. The fact that they are accepting it is just a lazy resolution to a current problem. I agree that animation canceling is not the primary issue but leaving it as is only makes these issues all the worse.

All animations needs to be given mandatory portions that cannot be clipped short. Even instant abilities should still have some portion of their animation visually represented. This gives players time to react and also allows them to counter certain abilites with reflects or other defensive skills. This would promote skillful play as it allows every player a chance to react. Additionally it would make knowing when you can clip an animation critical as you could literally abort an action instead of just animation canceling it.

Could you imagine a 1v1 where a Sorc aborts their own damage shield animation by mistake? Yes, mistakes like that should be costly and if you mess up the other player should be given a chance to take advantage of your mistake. Additioanlly, requiring a mandatory portion of an animation allows players a chance to interrupt the ability. ZOS could balance certain abilities like they mistakenly did with Wrecking Blow so that spamming interrupts would not work. Again, it's about balancing the animation canceling by giving players a chance to react according to what visual cues they see, not about seeing who can cancel the most animations in the shortest amount of time.

Anyway, ZOS has a lot of work before Cyrodiil is working properly so fixing animation canceling is secondary to general performance issues but it is worth noting that the way ZOS implemented animation canceling demonstrates their inexperience in this area.

I agree on this 100%.

Here's a private message from a user on the forums sent to me on this subject. It's worth thinking about... @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

"Saw post about animation cancelling. Actually, having studied PvP for 2 years, I can say I am 99% certain that it is what is at the root of the PvP lag. Yes, there have been other issues, which ZOS is slowly clearing up, but now the only time servers lag is when the large well known AOE bomb groups are present, and they always use animation cancelling.

What I believe is happening is their client cancels, the server acknowledges to them, but to the rest of the world the server wants to play the animation. This causes a desync because the server has no instruction about what to do in that case. The best supporting evidence on this is the NUMEROUS times I hear players attacking me, yet there is NO one engaged with me from my clients view. This is not lag, I have the highest most recent gaming machine (six months old) and the prior one was 1 year old.

While many believe that number of players cause issue, well to a point yes, but even in the busiest city, my latency never goes over 100 and FPS is always at least 50 so that shows it is something caused specifically with the mechanics I speak of.

Feel free to repost this, I am muted from posting due to the fact I pointed out too many wrong posts from devs."

beerninja

If there is one thing I learned from this forum it's that if you make a well made parody song with video about something and put it on youtube then the devs will respond a couple days later and fix the problem.

Someone get that loading times parody song guy on this. Either that, or switch to console where people can't use macros.

Shunravi

beerninja wrote: »

If there is one thing I learned from this forum it's that if you make a well made parody song with video about something and put it on youtube then the devs will respond a couple days later and fix the problem.

Someone get that loading times parody song guy on this. Either that, or switch to console where people can't use macros.

Animation canciling is not using macros. People animation cancel on consoles too.

Ezareth

Jowrik wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Cuyler

Not everyone has a choice of selecting an optimal server location. I mean there are no Oceanic servers or Asian servers and depending on where you are in comparison to the regional megaserver (NA=Texas, EU=Germany) your speeds may vary. This is compounded when we include FPS loss due to performance issues as registering an input may require additional milliseconds that you do not have. As I noted previously, the other night I was unable to weapon swap cancel consistently since the game was struggling to keep up with what was happening. The result is that if the game requires a low ping to compensate for FPS drops then there is a problem that is outside of the player's control.

And yes, milliseconds can matter as anyone who has played a competitive shooter knows since when you face a player with a superior ping you can often be shooting at their ghost. What I mean is that you will see them come around a corner but in reality they already came around it and reaacted to you before you even saw them. The problem is that everything you do is delayed so not only do you see updates more slowly, but your inputs are registered more slowly, and you must wait for the animations (which are delayed) before you can input the next action, etc. The result is that what may only be a miniscule delay can end up costing you a noticeable amount of time since all of these things add up.

I fully understand (I played COD since the first modern warfare, I was the guy with the 30:1 K:D ratio). Anyways, the solution however is not explicit to animation cancelling, as simply balancing that would not alleviate the actual problem. I know it's a long shot, but requesting additional servers and requesting for bug fixes is really the solution. Animation cancelling is just a scapegoat.

As I have noted in detail previously, clipping an entire enimation is not skilled animation canceling. ZOS did not design ESO to handle animation canceling in a balanced manner. The fact that they are accepting it is just a lazy resolution to a current problem. I agree that animation canceling is not the primary issue but leaving it as is only makes these issues all the worse.

All animations needs to be given mandatory portions that cannot be clipped short. Even instant abilities should still have some portion of their animation visually represented. This gives players time to react and also allows them to counter certain abilites with reflects or other defensive skills. This would promote skillful play as it allows every player a chance to react. Additionally it would make knowing when you can clip an animation critical as you could literally abort an action instead of just animation canceling it.

Could you imagine a 1v1 where a Sorc aborts their own damage shield animation by mistake? Yes, mistakes like that should be costly and if you mess up the other player should be given a chance to take advantage of your mistake. Additioanlly, requiring a mandatory portion of an animation allows players a chance to interrupt the ability. ZOS could balance certain abilities like they mistakenly did with Wrecking Blow so that spamming interrupts would not work. Again, it's about balancing the animation canceling by giving players a chance to react according to what visual cues they see, not about seeing who can cancel the most animations in the shortest amount of time.

Anyway, ZOS has a lot of work before Cyrodiil is working properly so fixing animation canceling is secondary to general performance issues but it is worth noting that the way ZOS implemented animation canceling demonstrates their inexperience in this area.

I agree on this 100%.

Here's a private message from a user on the forums sent to me on this subject. It's worth thinking about... @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

"Saw post about animation cancelling. Actually, having studied PvP for 2 years, I can say I am 99% certain that it is what is at the root of the PvP lag. Yes, there have been other issues, which ZOS is slowly clearing up, but now the only time servers lag is when the large well known AOE bomb groups are present, and they always use animation cancelling.

What I believe is happening is their client cancels, the server acknowledges to them, but to the rest of the world the server wants to play the animation. This causes a desync because the server has no instruction about what to do in that case. The best supporting evidence on this is the NUMEROUS times I hear players attacking me, yet there is NO one engaged with me from my clients view. This is not lag, I have the highest most recent gaming machine (six months old) and the prior one was 1 year old.

While many believe that number of players cause issue, well to a point yes, but even in the busiest city, my latency never goes over 100 and FPS is always at least 50 so that shows it is something caused specifically with the mechanics I speak of.

Feel free to repost this, I am muted from posting due to the fact I pointed out too many wrong posts from devs."

Your "user" on the forums is just wrong. AoE bomb groups aren't typically animation canceling anything and the same latency is present in PvE as well.

This whole thread is a joke. One of the best players I know doesn't even know how to animation cancel and he also plays with ~300 ping. I animation cancel terribly and with no real consistency yet I've never had issues beating people who do it perfectly. The advantages are extremely minor when they exist at all.

You'd think we'd begin learning what is wrong with our (American) society. You don't set the bar as low as lowest common denominator. You keep it high so people have room to grow and improve. The fruits of our public education system is a prime example of the alternative.

Maim

Debate this all you want. When I notice that mashing buttons, coupled with mild latency and a 2H weapon equates to me 'weaving' *coughwhatabullspitwaytojustifybrokenmechanicscough* a heavy attack and wrecking blow spam in less time than it should take to do both I'm bothered by this. O wait. Been using this now as those big clunky TWO HANDED (read as SLOW, HEAVY, DIFFICULT TO WEILD) weapons slice through the air faster than a set of daggers???? Animation cancel a Steel Tornado (with that room clearing reach?????) with block. Cast faster, do more damage on a high area execution aoe....

I'm sorry. Leave animation cancelling alone like all those people who depend on it for their DPS numbers want you to. Leave it alone, but for the sake of hoping that something that occurs in this game MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL for all that you do, REMOVE THE DAMAGE THAT OCCURS WHEN YOU CANCEL CANCEL CANCEL CANCEL a skill in exchange for something relevant to the course of your combat.

Gonna animation cancel payment of subscription. It won't actually charge my credit card, but I'll still get ESOPlus membership status. Sound about right?

OdinForge

Maim wrote: »

Debate this all you want. When I notice that mashing buttons, coupled with mild latency and a 2H weapon equates to me 'weaving' *coughwhatabullspitwaytojustifybrokenmechanicscough* a heavy attack and wrecking blow spam in less time than it should take to do both I'm bothered by this. O wait. Been using this now as those big clunky TWO HANDED (read as SLOW, HEAVY, DIFFICULT TO WEILD) weapons slice through the air faster than a set of daggers???? Animation cancel a Steel Tornado (with that room clearing reach?????) with block. Cast faster, do more damage on a high area execution aoe....

I'm sorry. Leave animation cancelling alone like all those people who depend on it for their DPS numbers want you to. Leave it alone, but for the sake of hoping that something that occurs in this game MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL for all that you do, REMOVE THE DAMAGE THAT OCCURS WHEN YOU CANCEL CANCEL CANCEL CANCEL a skill in exchange for something relevant to the course of your combat.

Gonna animation cancel payment of subscription. It won't actually charge my credit card, but I'll still get ESOPlus membership status. Sound about right?

What are you even talking about?

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

This is animation cancelling to me, and I'll use real world terms just so people can get what is being said.

You're walking down the street (I know, scary that you have to leave the game) and a guy jumps out in front of you. The next thing you see is his arms going up to block. But you are on the floor with a broken nose and a cracked jaw because you didn't see the quick jab and powerful uppercut.

Now, everybody cries about how they want immersion in game and how they want their combat to feel realistic. Not sure how to say this guys but medieval combat tended to last a little bit longer then 15 seconds (unless one of them was unarmed and wearing no armour).

Animation cancelling doesn't make combat more fluid, it is a joke. A single player on there own should think twice about running into a group of 3. But with animation cancelling that one person can take 3 on with ease. I've sat in the sewers and watched how a master of animation cancelling (I'll give benefit of doubt that he wasn't using macros) obliterate everything in his path yet not one single tell given as to what action he was doing. How can you defend what you can not see? You can't interrupt the heavy damage maker on an animation cancel.

Combat is action and reaction. Animation cancelling causes serious problems with that. And the fact that the ZOS factor animation cancelling into future development raises an eyebrow and concerns as to where this game is heading.

I out right refuse to do animation cancelling, if I want to drink a drink, then I have to open the bottle. I can not cancel that action. It is illogical to cancel an animation and still reap the rewards as if the animation completed. I tell a lie, there will be one animation cancel I perform, that will be the click on PLAY on the the ESO client and the final animation seen is a formal letter of compliant IF ZOS take it to a level that animation cancelling becomes a must.

Dear

Holy shizballs. I didn't know animation canceling was a thing.
So it can stop the shock animation from happening!?
SOME OF THE ANIMATIONS REALLY HURT MY EYES.
Cancelling that would be brilliant. Gotta find the Settings for it now...

Emma_Overload

Jura23 wrote: »

Fellhand_ESO wrote: »

I like the pace of the combat, just wish it looked like we were actually fighting rather than having seizures.

This. This. This.

The fact that ZOS didn't include all this into development of the game so they were actually surprised when animation cancelling became a thing just shows huge incompetence. And I want them to solve this esthetic problem, because it's their responsibility.

When ZOS says stuff like that, what they really mean is that they didn't expect COMPLAINTS about animation cancelling to become a thing. Of course they know all about animation cancelling... they CODED it into the game!

ESO was NEVER designed to have slow combat with long-assed cooldowns like an old fashioned MMO. The sooner you and all the other complainers understand that, the sooner you'll be able to get with the program and learn to play ESO the way it was intended: FAST.

Jowrik

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Fellhand_ESO wrote: »

I like the pace of the combat, just wish it looked like we were actually fighting rather than having seizures.

This. This. This.

The fact that ZOS didn't include all this into development of the game so they were actually surprised when animation cancelling became a thing just shows huge incompetence. And I want them to solve this esthetic problem, because it's their responsibility.

When ZOS says stuff like that, what they really mean is that they didn't expect COMPLAINTS about animation cancelling to become a thing. Of course they know all about animation cancelling... they CODED it into the game!

ESO was NEVER designed to have slow combat with long-assed cooldowns like an old fashioned MMO. The sooner you and all the other complainers understand that, the sooner you'll be able to get with the program and learn to play ESO the way it was intended: FAST.

I'd prefer fast, smooth and obvious though.

Kaliki

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ESO was NEVER designed to have slow combat with long-assed cooldowns like an old fashioned MMO. The sooner you and all the other complainers understand that, the sooner you'll be able to get with the program and learn to play ESO the way it was intended: FAST.

ESO designed to be fast? I don't think so.
If it was designed to be fast we would not have abilities with clunky animations at all, let aloneheavy atracks that take several seco ds to charge.
A fast paced game would offer ability combos that make combat a bit faster and interesting.

ESO has no cooldowns but most instant abilities make me lose control over my character longer than a GCD on WoW.

And to those saying animation cancelling is easy: from what Ive seen it is not at all. One has to learn how and especially when to cancel for every single ability in game, as they are all different.
Best example: one of the community embassadors claimed the the toppling charge stun is a myth. The reason: he was so used to cancel every animation that he did not experience it.

I could do that as well, but I dont want to have to mash 3 buttons for executing one single ability (LA+Ability+block) every time. This is ridiculous and counterintuitive. And to me it is stressful.

You can't tell me that ZOS made animations extra clunky so noobs would die while waiting for a skill or the break free animation to play and pros could cancel them.

Combat was intended to be based around decisions and resource management, not about who can animationcancel and dps his foe down in 2 secs.

jrkhan

@Lava_Croft , @Hiero_Glyph

I've heard many repetitions of 'animation canceling is unfair because it isn't possible with low fps/lag'

This doesn't line up with my observations.
When my latency goes above 300 ALL my abilities are delayed. I can animation cancel all I want, it's just all slightly delayed. This would be the same if I, light attack + ability + bash, or if that wasn't allowed and I could only just use the ability instead.
I'd be at the same disadvantage if my ping were high.

Same as fps drops.
If my fps is low, but steady, I can animation cancel just as easy as if it were high.
(And I've pvp'd in both conditions)

When there is a real fps drop (due to add-ons in pvp) it's hard to do anything until frame rate stabilizes...
If I'm lagging with 2 fps, there's nothing I can do - animation canceling has nothing to do with this.

- -

Can you explain with examples/explanation of how animation canceling magnifies the disadvantage if low fps/high ping?

I really feel like being able to react quickly in combat is necessary.
Essentially, what you are asking for, is a complete retuning of all instant abilities to instead effectively have a cast/channel time.
I don't think combat would be nearly as fluid that way, even if the animations looked somewhat smoother.

Hiero_Glyph

@jrkhan

No instant ability is actually instant in the sense that it deals damage the moment you press the button. All instant abilities have an animation that begins to play the instant you press the button. The only way for an instant ability to deal damage at that exact moment is if you animation cancel. This was a huge problem for Dawnbreaker as it applied not only the initial damage but the full DoT all at once when it was animation canceled. This is just one example of how poorly animation canceling is programmed by ZOS. Even when you weave light attacks you will hear the sound of the attack while performing another action. The game simply does not know what to do when you animation cancel as it tries to apply multiple effects simultaneously, which is why it is so broken.

As for latency, this causes all the inputs to be delayed. you can still animation cancel but your response time will be delayed so if you light attack, skill, bash then it will take slightly longer for all of these inputs to occur. This is no different then my shooting at ghosts example that occurs in many shooters. The point being that as all of the inputs are delayed the player with high latency will be weaving slower even if they input the commands just as fast as a low latency player.

Regarding fps drops, these can actually cause inputs to be missed by the game. So if you gap close, light attack, skill and that skill has a conditional range then the game cannot perform that action unless it properly performs the previous actions. This is also why spamming just one skill is far more consistent even during fps drops. Likewise, weapon swapping can be delayed and inputs lost since certain conditions are no longer met. Just the other night I was weapon swap canceling and the next thing I knew I was on the wrong bar casting the wrong skills since the game dropped my weapon swap input. This can also happen with CCs as you may be affected after you have input commands and are just waiting for the game to catch-up but the CC invalidates those inputs.