Still havent died to this set, still a shield primary defense build

Dont see the problem

Rook_Master wrote: »

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Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Let's be honest. This is about getting "payback" on all the sorcs who abused the hell out of damage shields when they were OP.

Rook_Master wrote: »

In all seriousness though, this is just your comeuppance for shieldstacking 30k+ shields since March, and then arguing against nerfing Hardened Ward and Shieldstacking.

The nerfhammer has been swung at shields, HARD. You will now have to adapt.

Point proven.

Yep, and I'm totally unashamed to say that I get a sense of satisfaction seeing sorcs get trashed by Shieldbreaker builds.

There are plenty of respectable stam sorcs like FENGRUSH that didn't abuse mechanics and exploits for months asfter 1.6 dropped.

The vast majority of sorcs can just go get boned by Shieldbreaker and I sincerely dont' care.

This is the attitude that is piece by piece destroying the game and PvP in general.

These same sorcs are going to be the first who join the "Nerf cloak" club for the same reasons you espouse and instead of trying to *balance* the game, people are more interested in getting "even" which is absurd.

I haven't fought Fengrush on my NB since I can't but every Stam sorc I've seen to date is a weaker version of my NB for obvious reasons. Most people rolled a sorc because they preferred playing a ranged caster not a 2-hander spamming ball of lightning.

Rook_Master wrote: »

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Ezareth wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Let's be honest. This is about getting "payback" on all the sorcs who abused the hell out of damage shields when they were OP.

Rook_Master wrote: »

In all seriousness though, this is just your comeuppance for shieldstacking 30k+ shields since March, and then arguing against nerfing Hardened Ward and Shieldstacking.

The nerfhammer has been swung at shields, HARD. You will now have to adapt.

Point proven.

Yep, and I'm totally unashamed to say that I get a sense of satisfaction seeing sorcs get trashed by Shieldbreaker builds.

There are plenty of respectable stam sorcs like FENGRUSH that didn't abuse mechanics and exploits for months asfter 1.6 dropped.

The vast majority of sorcs can just go get boned by Shieldbreaker and I sincerely dont' care.

This is the attitude that is piece by piece destroying the game and PvP in general.

These same sorcs are going to be the first who join the "Nerf cloak" club for the same reasons you espouse and instead of trying to *balance* the game, people are more interested in getting "even" which is absurd.

I haven't fought Fengrush on my NB since I can't but every Stam sorc I've seen to date is a weaker version of my NB for obvious reasons. Most people rolled a sorc because they preferred playing a ranged caster not a 2-hander spamming ball of lightning.

I didn't even want something as extreme as Shieldbreaker but Zenimax refuses to nerf Hardened Ward of shield-stacking for some reason, so I'll take what I can get.

Sorc shields were super OP for ~6 months since March. If they are useless for another half a year until Wrothgar or 1.8 drops, then that's really only fair.

You realize Hardened Ward was nerfed by over 40% this patch relative to last patch? Healing ward was nerfed by far more.

They are still very strong but even without shield breaker God-mode sorcs are a thing of the past. You wouldn't believe how many old school sorc players such as myself who had no interest in playing late game 1.6 because they were so "Easy mode".

Ezareth wrote: »

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Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Let's be honest. This is about getting "payback" on all the sorcs who abused the hell out of damage shields when they were OP.

Rook_Master wrote: »

In all seriousness though, this is just your comeuppance for shieldstacking 30k+ shields since March, and then arguing against nerfing Hardened Ward and Shieldstacking.

The nerfhammer has been swung at shields, HARD. You will now have to adapt.

Point proven.

Yep, and I'm totally unashamed to say that I get a sense of satisfaction seeing sorcs get trashed by Shieldbreaker builds.

There are plenty of respectable stam sorcs like FENGRUSH that didn't abuse mechanics and exploits for months asfter 1.6 dropped.

The vast majority of sorcs can just go get boned by Shieldbreaker and I sincerely dont' care.

This is the attitude that is piece by piece destroying the game and PvP in general.

These same sorcs are going to be the first who join the "Nerf cloak" club for the same reasons you espouse and instead of trying to *balance* the game, people are more interested in getting "even" which is absurd.

I haven't fought Fengrush on my NB since I can't but every Stam sorc I've seen to date is a weaker version of my NB for obvious reasons. Most people rolled a sorc because they preferred playing a ranged caster not a 2-hander spamming ball of lightning.

I didn't even want something as extreme as Shieldbreaker but Zenimax refuses to nerf Hardened Ward of shield-stacking for some reason, so I'll take what I can get.

Sorc shields were super OP for ~6 months since March. If they are useless for another half a year until Wrothgar or 1.8 drops, then that's really only fair.

You realize Hardened Ward was nerfed by over 40% this patch relative to last patch? Healing ward was nerfed by far more.

They are still very strong but even without shield breaker God-mode sorcs are a thing of the past. You wouldn't believe how many old school sorc players such as myself who had no interest in playing late game 1.6 because they were so "Easy mode".

Maybe you were a gentleman about it, but let me tell you there were many many others that were not. There were even idiots posting nostalgia videos about themselves exploiting with their 1.6 sorcs.

I know that you specifically were calling for reasonable changes, but what we got was too little too late, and if the only way Zenimax can deal with it is by imploding all shields with a new set, then I'll take that.

And if all those former 1.6 sorcs that were exploiting and abusing mechanics suffer, forgive me if I don't start crying for them.

Xeven wrote: »

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Araxleon wrote: »

Seriously since this patch came out all they have done is complain about shield breaker, Just use another method to avoid damage? With the new target system pets must be amazing + Slot a proper heal....

If you dare say I dont wanna use pets... I dont wanna use sap essence but its the only AOE I got.

And if you want to focus on shields atleast use your head.

Slot a heal and dont build for really big shields focus more on smaller but more casts.
(Someone I know changed stuff around and its great for him
Smaller shield means less time in lethal zone if someone using shield breaker shows up)

Play Sorc then. Show us how. You can't, you're just spewing BS.

None of that works.

Make LA = to MA mitigation. Give us Vigor morph. Now that works.

I could play magicka NB without cloak and preform better than you, Hell I Have already proven that to enough people
You on the other hand act like a fly without wings if you cant use your class damage shield.

And you have to realize if you use shield breaker and fight a fellow stam build, your basically fighting without a 5 piece bonus.

Seriously sounds like you have a L2P issue.

Phew...Guess that rumor that all magicka sorcs play the same build is true.

So I noticed today that you get an audio cue when being hit by this sets proc, it's like a clang or something. It's pretty alarming how fast it can damage you when all you have is rapid regen. It was a bow from the inner part of a keep and I was on the outer wall. I just heard clang clang clang and 33% of my life had gone, I have 19k hp. Rapid regen slowed it down a bit and this ticks for 700. I avoided dying by rolling once and going behind cover but that won't always be possible.

I recently tried running with 6 light and 1 heavy, I just swapped out my breeches of torugs for greaves of torugs. On top of that I'm using a nirnhoned staff, bound aegis on both bars and boundless storm, so I can't shield stack cos I only have room for hardened ward. When buffed my spell resistance is 21k and my physical resistance is 16k. This is about as tanky as a magicka sorc can get imo. Once I knew there was a bow user with this set I tried just running around with boundless storm and no shield to see what would happen but then I just heard the hiss of poison injection which was doing a bit more damage than the shield breaker set. Luckily I had a templar with me. So it looks like to counter this set you need a templar.

Maybe if zos wanted to punish shield stackers they could have made the damage scale up with however many shields you had active, starting with low damage if only one was active. Why do you need such a severe counter to single shields? Especially considering CC + burst works just as well. The counter to this set is literally flee or be healed by a templar.

Soulac wrote: »

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ToRelax wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dodge got hard counters, block got hard counters, healing got some counters as well - so every defense I got as stamina only build gets countered.
That´s why I go for huge magicka reg and lower stamina reg to use cloak as additional defense.
And even then it got enough counters and I´m not unkillable or something, shields shouldn´t be a difference.

I fought around 6 months against undodgeable concealed weapon and whips, hitting way more than 2k and my only defense was dodge basically. Block? Fear / Petrify - Cloak? Cloak against a DK.. without building range using shadow image it ain´t gonna be useful.
Anyway.. i still survived. These were melee attacks, so i adapted and went on range and using high mobility in melee to avoid getting hitted.

Except the "bug" with harness, meaning that your attacks won´t reduce the harness shield, but you still get the extra damage, the set is totally fine in my opinion.

Shieldbreaker is countering my main defensive mechanic and my burst heal from range though...

BTW: I should add, I also use mistform now, wich is useless against shieldbreaker as well if i have a shield up, and if i don't use healing ward before going into it and am low hp, i am as good as dead as well.

You know how it was to fight a DK or magicka NB as stamina build in the last patch?
Dodge, my main defense gets countered by their spam abilities. Of course it´s fixed now, but stamina builds found ways to adapt and fight this.
Keep in mind that heavy resto/destro, magicka aoes and soul strike don´t give a damn about dodge either.
Now i can dodge stuff like this, but unlike shields, dodge isn´t spammable anymore and you will run out of stamina quite quick - so you kinda have to use other stuff, meaning i use cloak mostly.
Best thing at it? It get´s countered by all aoes and a fkin potion.

Now there is ONE Set, ONE counter to shields and i think if someone wastes other possible set combinations just to counter your shields, it should be worth it.

I know how it was because I played as a stam Sorc myself for a while, without nirnhoned. My damage was too low to kill many players, but I didn't have a problem to survive against one enemy with whipe or concealed weapon (safe for NBs with prox detonation, and even then i got out with magnume shot most of the time).
Besides, I still don't see your point? I always said these skills should be dodgeable, how does that now justify a set in 2.1?
And what does it matter wether there is only one set or many? Having only one limits build diversity, but it certainly doesn't limit the counter...

Soulac wrote: »

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Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dodge got hard counters, block got hard counters, healing got some counters as well - so every defense I got as stamina only build gets countered.
That´s why I go for huge magicka reg and lower stamina reg to use cloak as additional defense.
And even then it got enough counters and I´m not unkillable or something, shields shouldn´t be a difference.

I fought around 6 months against undodgeable concealed weapon and whips, hitting way more than 2k and my only defense was dodge basically. Block? Fear / Petrify - Cloak? Cloak against a DK.. without building range using shadow image it ain´t gonna be useful.
Anyway.. i still survived. These were melee attacks, so i adapted and went on range and using high mobility in melee to avoid getting hitted.

Except the "bug" with harness, meaning that your attacks won´t reduce the harness shield, but you still get the extra damage, the set is totally fine in my opinion.

I think an entire playstyle being completely neutered by a single *extremely easy to acquire* set is not fine.

Damage shields were already nerfed pretty damn hard this patch relative to everything else with the battle spirit buff fixes. Having the easiest set in the game to acquire that will allow anyone to steps into cyrodiil with a bow the ability to light attack players to death is pretty stupid IMO.

I remember playing my sorc without damage shields....and we all know just how easy it is to kill a sorc who isn't using a damage shield so who are you guys trying to kid here? Let's be honest. This is about getting "payback" on all the sorcs who abused the hell out of damage shields when they were OP.

If i play a magicka nightblade, not wanting to run fotm healing ward, my only real defense is Cloak.
Cloak gets hard countered by:
Any AoE
Boss Mobs
Mobs in general sometimes
Mark
Flare
Potions

Making me visible for every enemy, not only for the one who uses the counter.
But that´s okay, right?
Slot a potion and counter an entire playstyle is fine, right?

So the nightblade has to adapt and use something else against these counters, same applies to you as a sorc.
You want to rely on a single defense ability? Do it, but live with the counter.

Tell me the last time you were killed because someone detected you with AoE or flare. You and I both know how fast a cloaked NB can move. Sure if you're stuck in a cornered position it may find you but all you need to do is drop a shade and lead the group away, port back to it and you're in the clear.

The biggest difference I'm talking about here is if you strip away your cloak you still have a ton of other defensive options. You can heal spam with vigor, you can still dodge roll and block to more limited degrees and you're not going to have issues against 1 or 2 people unless they're extremely good players. With shield breaker *any* newb can do an absurd amount of damage to any sorc. There is no counter to it for a sorc except to stop using shields which means he is left to rely on a light stamina pool and no magicka heal nearly as good as vigor that he has access to. It's just a stupid scenario that sorc are in right now.

Please someone show me some footage of a sorc being successful without using damage shields that isn't on Xbox or something fighting a group full of mouse clicker equivalents.

Yesterday, since i don´t run any speed buffs.
NBs are laughable easy to catch, especially if you now where they will run to.

I use Vigor, Rally, Shadow Image, Cloak, Shuffle as defense and in addition to that i got dodge which drains my stamina incredible fast.

Streak, Mines, Healing from Resto is not available to you?
If I drop stamina and dmg to get a magicka ability as my main defense since all other will run me out of stamina too quick, then i think you could get some stamina for a few dodges or block as well.

As long as I don´t see any sorc at least trying to do something else I´m not gonna believe that there is nothing you could do against shield breaker.

So Streak and Mines protect me from bows now? lol
I did try several approaches, it's your choice if you don't believe that. If you actually want proof you'll have to play Sorc yourself.

And please, don't forget the rest of the PvP populations who are using shields or are effected by them as well. You say you have no problem with this set outside of Harness Magicka. So the way it works with Mistform, blocking, Bone Shield, Petrify, Obsidian Shield and all the shields from sets and passives is okay?

I dont think it's that easy for sorcs to adapt. What ever they do, the result is a much weaker build.

If you want to counter Shield Breaker you need better healing. That's easy for templar or DK with class skills that heals and passives boosting it.

But take a sorc. They need to give up 2-3 skill slots, than invest a bunch in Blessed and Quick Recovery to get something out of weakish resto fluff heals. They also have to remove points from favourite Bastion and offensive points from the Apprentice tree, basically start dividing all their Champions Points. Than get more health.

In the past sorcs could just max out shield sign and go full *** Elemental Expert, while jamming into spell dmg and magicka and be god-mode. But now, because if a single set, you have to make diverse builds...meaning weaker because ESO. Noway they're just going to accept that silently lol.

Shield Breaker does to much dmg any how. Light attack bow spam + proc on a shield shouldn't be higher dps than using actual skills on someone without a shield up. It needs to obey Battle Spirit like everything else and have a 50% reduction.

Also makes no sense that Shield Breaker proc's on Harness Magicka. You shouldn't take full dmg from skills AND the lame proc.

eliisra wrote: »

I dont think it's that easy for sorcs to adapt. What ever they do, the result is a much weaker build.

If you want to counter Shield Breaker you need better healing. That's easy for templar or DK with class skills that heals and passives boosting it.

But take a sorc. They need to give up 2-3 skill slots, than invest a bunch in Blessed and Quick Recovery to get something out of weakish resto fluff heals. They also have to remove points from favourite Bastion and offensive points from the Apprentice tree, basically start dividing all their Champions Points. Than get more health.

In the past sorcs could just max out shield sign and go full *** Elemental Expert, while jamming into spell dmg and magicka and be god-mode. But now, because if a single set, you have to make diverse builds...meaning weaker because ESO. Noway they're just going to accept that silently lol.

Shield Breaker does to much dmg any how. Light attack bow spam + proc on a shield shouldn't be higher dps than using actual skills on someone without a shield up. It needs to obey Battle Spirit like everything else and have a 50% reduction.

Also makes no sense that Shield Breaker proc's on Harness Magicka. You shouldn't take full dmg from skills AND the lame proc.

I´d also rather invest everything in damage instead of magicka reg as stamina nb.
This is not a perfect world

Araxleon wrote: »

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Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Seriously since this patch came out all they have done is complain about shield breaker, Just use another method to avoid damage? With the new target system pets must be amazing + Slot a proper heal....

If you dare say I dont wanna use pets... I dont wanna use sap essence but its the only AOE I got.

And if you want to focus on shields atleast use your head.

Slot a heal and dont build for really big shields focus more on smaller but more casts.
(Someone I know changed stuff around and its great for him
Smaller shield means less time in lethal zone if someone using shield breaker shows up)

Play Sorc then. Show us how. You can't, you're just spewing BS.

None of that works.

Make LA = to MA mitigation. Give us Vigor morph. Now that works.

I could play magicka NB without cloak and preform better than you, Hell I Have already proven that to enough people
You on the other hand act like a fly without wings if you cant use your class damage shield.

And you have to realize if you use shield breaker and fight a fellow stam build, your basically fighting without a 5 piece bonus.

Seriously sounds like you have a L2P issue.

Phew...Guess that rumor that all magicka sorcs play the same build is true.

A Magicka NB without cloak would destroy a sorc without shields. Even if he didn't use cloak or shields you have more defensive options. Easy access to maim and healing ults, stuns, fracture built into your basic attacks, empower etc.

And the 3 other bonuses on Shield Breaker are perfectly slotted for Stamina with access to every good trait, the loss of the 5 piece in some fights is not an issue at all.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

I play a sorc and let's be fair... Shield Breaker is a pretty cheesy set. Light Attack and you win type deal? No skill required... just gather TV and go buy the set and boom... shield killer set (to any class).

HOWEVER, since the set DOES exist and since ZOS does not intend to change the set I'VE had to make some changes to my play style. I still run my class shield, I stopped using Harness/Dampen, I still use Healing Ward, and now I also use Boundless Storm. I have found that excessive shield stacking is not needed this patch (specially now that I'm running 2 Heavy, 5 Light), as it was previous patches with the damage reduction where it's at. When I DO run into someone who is using shieldbreaker (which makes them weaker), I stop refreshing shields, pop boundless storm, use Blessing of Restoration (which is a decent heal), and go on the offensive. People depending on this set forget to defend because they think I have the "I win set on" and therefor die easily. Once they stop LA'ing I can restack a shield to tempt them into that weak 2k attack and go back on the offensive.

@Araxleon I agree that sorcs are crying waaaay to much for this set when there are simple counters to it. I understand that it is a cheesy set and thinks it needs to be reworked and can affect other classes as well. Honestly this set encourages bad play style and makes the player WEAKER not stronger.

It's not the 1 v 1 situation that worries me with this set. It's the I just found 3 bads and one of them is sporting V15 shieldbreaker with a bow situation that worries me. The other 2 just go all out DPS like bads do and the bad with shield bracker just spams light attacks. What do you do as a sorc? Any sorc no matter how good is going to die very quickly to 3 bads without using a shield he's being very crafty and they are ultra bad like running into his mines etc. Make 2 of those 3 nightblades who do nothing but spam ambush and the sorc is goign to get instagibbed.

On my nightblade when I run into these same bad 3 players I'm going to kick ass. There is no set in the game that nerfs the defenses I rely upon, I have a strong reliable heal in Vigor and I have AoE CC. Damage shields allowed a sorc the chance to survive a focus attack by multiple players. Every class has this capability. Now if one of the people focusing you has the shield breaker set you better hope you are close enough to safety to bolt away because if you're focused you die. Plain and simple. Is that really balance?

I used to think outside the box but it was big out there so I went back in the box. The box was still scary so I made another box inside the box and now I think inside that box, which is a very cozy box.

"Why do sorcs refuse to think outside the box?"

because, they can just bolt escape out of it.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

The annoying pet builds I've seen use shield still but use that lightning ball version of streak and 2 pets with a twilight and exploding scamp. The sorc would then proceed to bolt around and let the projectiles and rushes hit their pets or the balls, wasting enemy attacks while the pets , curse, and other things wore down the enemy. After which it was about waiting for low enough health to insta cast fragments and dawn breaker.

Seems it will still work with out shields but might need a resto on back bar

That sounds like an exciting new box to think in.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

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Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Let's be honest. This is about getting "payback" on all the sorcs who abused the hell out of damage shields when they were OP.

Rook_Master wrote: »

In all seriousness though, this is just your comeuppance for shieldstacking 30k+ shields since March, and then arguing against nerfing Hardened Ward and Shieldstacking.

The nerfhammer has been swung at shields, HARD. You will now have to adapt.

Point proven.

Yep, and I'm totally unashamed to say that I get a sense of satisfaction seeing sorcs get trashed by Shieldbreaker builds.

There are plenty of respectable stam sorcs like FENGRUSH that didn't abuse mechanics and exploits for months asfter 1.6 dropped.

The vast majority of sorcs can just go get boned by Shieldbreaker and I sincerely dont' care.

This is the attitude that is piece by piece destroying the game and PvP in general.

These same sorcs are going to be the first who join the "Nerf cloak" club for the same reasons you espouse and instead of trying to *balance* the game, people are more interested in getting "even" which is absurd.

I haven't fought Fengrush on my NB since I can't but every Stam sorc I've seen to date is a weaker version of my NB for obvious reasons. Most people rolled a sorc because they preferred playing a ranged caster not a 2-hander spamming ball of lightning.

I didn't even want something as extreme as Shieldbreaker but Zenimax refuses to nerf Hardened Ward of shield-stacking for some reason, so I'll take what I can get.

Sorc shields were super OP for ~6 months since March. If they are useless for another half a year until Wrothgar or 1.8 drops, then that's really only fair.

Hardened Ward really doesn't need a nerf, it's only 9.6k with 77cp in bastion and 33k magicka. Lots of skills can 1 or 2-shot it.

Edit: on top of that any overflow damage is unmitigated. So say you did an 8k wrecking blow to my 9.6k ward and left me with 1.6k then hit me with another 8k WB the remaining 6.4k damage would hit me ignoring any physical resistance.

That's been fixed evidently