Why do sorcs refuse to think outside the box?

_adhyffbjjjf12

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

k2blader

Hey OP, what are you crying about exactly? That some sorcs have rerolled or are rerolling? Grow up.

Not all sorcs had massive shield stacks, could bolt endlessly into the horizon, and deal insane DPS all at the same time, as you and other ignoramuses believe.

Folks who like playing their sorcs, regardless of the nerfs, will keep killing.

So to you and any other whingy, mangy-assed NBs, just shut up and play. Stop worrying about sorcs, all will be well.

Derra

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

No.

The sorcerer class is designed around their class shield. This is why zenimax refuses to provide sorcs with any reliable class based form of healing for pvp. The class design basically says: Heal up slowly under your shield with rgn crits or very low casted heals when out of los.
The class is pidgeonholed into the use of this ability because it´s the only instant cast defense spell they get. If you´d change hardened ward the way you want it it would basically be the same as removing breath of life from templars and the jabs heal on dmg and then telling them they are fine.

The problem is not hardened ward but stacking it with other shields (harness for the absolute cheese against magica builds and healing ward).

Furthermore i don´t think they can remove shieldbreaker anymore. People already spent millions on this set with the right trait. The only thing i could personally see working by now is:

Option 1: Give the set a 1s cooldown on the procc. This virtually changes nothing for any user but the light attack spamming bowtard. It´s still a powerful set to combat shieldusers but no longer turns a fight completely upside down.

Option 2: Buff the dmg but let the set only attack shields not HP.

Also they need to fix it so the set only proccs if the light attack is actually absorbed by a shield - so harness magica is no longer a 26s self debuff you can´t remove when encountering someone with shieldbreaker.

Kupoking

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

Everytime id see a sorc with engine gardian on I was like: /sigh here we go again and hense followed shield stacking surrounded by mines, spaming crushing shock, zipping away when fight wasnt going in their favor.

Worst part is, everyone knew their pattern, build, skill yet they were pretty much unbeatable 1v1 unless you snipe them out of stealth with bubbles off. Then again a whine wisper would follow to call you cheap or a cheater.

Yep, good times.

Kh0ll

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

The magicka sorcerer design is missed no doubt, is it the fault of the sorcerer however if ZeniMax has never been able to give an alternative to this class?
Since the release our only defense remains shields. Not since the 1.6 since the release.
I agree that this is not fun for other classes but what other tools do we survive?
The sorcerer magicka is designed around these shields.
Since the release i play the same build, only 1 or 2 slots change because i haven't another choice.... except playing stamina.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Derra

Kh0ll wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

The magicka sorcerer design is missed no doubt, is it the fault of the sorcerer however if ZeniMax has never been able to give an alternative to this class?
Since the release our only defense remains shields. Not since the 1.6 since the release.
I agree that this is not fun for other classes but what other tools do we survive?
The sorcerer magicka is designed around these shields.
Since the release i play the same build, only 1 or 2 slots change because i haven't another choice.... except playing stamina.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Pretty much this ^

Magica sorcerers have their one "foty" build since release of the game and a petbuild that is extremely niche because of how clunky and in most scenarios uneffective pets are. Both of these builds rely on shields as their main defense. There has been quite a bit of thinking outside the box. The sad truth is: The class is lacking the options to be competetive without their must have skills and hardened ward is your #1 skill in that category.

The alternative is stamina.

Rune_Relic

Change hardened ward from a damage shield to an armour enhancement.
Literally magickally hardened armour.

Set the level of physical and magical resist buffs.
Set an appropriate cost.
Set an appropriate duration for that cost.

How would sorcs feel about that instead ?
You don't get permanent high armour wearing light, but you can get 'temporary' heavy armour using magicka.

This makes sorcs hard to kill still, but doenst make them invincible.
This still give Sorcs a unique class defining ability.
Sorcs cant spam the skill without seriously draining their magicka pool.
Sorcs have to worry about their health pool even with hardened amrour (rather than just lockout the healthbar).
Armour can of course be crit.
If you run out of magicka you are toast in 7 light.

Derra

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Change hardened ward from a damage shield to an armour enhancement.
Literally magickally hardened armour.

Set the level of physical and magical resist buffs.
Set an appropriate cost.
Set an appropriate duration for that cost.

How would sorcs feel about that instead ?
You don't get permanent high armour wearing light, but you can get 'temporary' heavy armour using magicka.

This makes sorcs hard to kill still, but doenst make them invincible.
This still give Sorcs a unique class defining ability.
Sorcs cant spam the skill without seriously draining their magicka pool.
Sorcs have to worry about their health pool even with hardened amrour (rather than just lockout the healthbar).
Armour can of course be crit.
If you run out of magicka you are toast in 7 light.

Could be fun if the class had access to any form of reliable selfhealing mechanism. As it stands they do not.

vortexman11

Ezareth wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Sooooo. Can my Magicka DK join the conversation and support the sorcs? Shield breaker is a bit much, especially when you've only got a 6k damage shield.

Why can't it do something like "X Percentage of remaining damage shield in unresistable damage" to basically reward sorc who wait for their shield to deplete rather than spamming it so you never see their health, while at the same time, not destroying any non-sorcs that would like to use damage shields.

I think it should be something like consecutive light attacks will proc "Shield Breaker" buff which adds 5K bonus damage to all of your attacks *against damage shields only* for the next 6 seconds.

This would make the set extremely powerful against shield spammers without completely invalidating the playstyle and players.

Again...when some classes can't get anywhere near 10,000 damage shields with just class shields alone (unless they try and play a magicka build with 45k health) having it do a flat amount of damage based on how high Hardened Ward specifically can get, won't be a very balanced idea.

BigTone

1v1 this set is not a problem for me, the problem arises when one person is spamming over 2k light attacks and another is regular big time damage moves (like wrecking blow). 1v1 verses a shield breaker I just out dps/cc them and I win. One person with a SB set and one without puts me in a bad situation.

My recommendation to fix shield stacking (even though it has already been nerfed) would be to weaken a shield if it is cast over another shield. For example you cast hardened ward and then harness on top of it. The strengths of harness is reduced by 50%.

Since this set is already in existence, one of the following should be done:

1. Reduce the damage to 1.5k per hit
2. Give the set a cooldown
3. Have the proc do 8k (or whatever number you see fit) to the shield only. This would be a true "sheild breaker" set
4. Be forced to land 5 consecutive light attacks to proc set
5. Fifth bonus is active for X amount of time, then initiate cooldown

To all of the people claiming that Shield Breaker users are making themselves weaker to all others by using this set you are simply wrong. The two, three, and four piece set bonuses are beneficial to ANY stam user, and the fifth is against almost all magicka users.

AhPook_Is_Here

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

I guess you have never played a sorc; they have an armor buff already in lightning form that gives major resolve and ward. I don't really play my sorc right now because I have a night-blade but turning conjured ward into something else at this point might not be a bad idea, maybe invisibility which was always a caster ability in ES titles.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

No.

The sorcerer class is designed around their class shield. This is why zenimax refuses to provide sorcs with any reliable class based form of healing for pvp. The class design basically says: Heal up slowly under your shield with rgn crits or very low casted heals when out of los.
The class is pidgeonholed into the use of this ability because it´s the only instant cast defense spell they get. If you´d change hardened ward the way you want it it would basically be the same as removing breath of life from templars and the jabs heal on dmg and then telling them they are fine.

The problem is not hardened ward but stacking it with other shields (harness for the absolute cheese against magica builds and healing ward).

Furthermore i don´t think they can remove shieldbreaker anymore. People already spent millions on this set with the right trait. The only thing i could personally see working by now is:

Option 1: Give the set a 1s cooldown on the procc. This virtually changes nothing for any user but the light attack spamming bowtard. It´s still a powerful set to combat shieldusers but no longer turns a fight completely upside down.

Option 2: Buff the dmg but let the set only attack shields not HP.

Also they need to fix it so the set only proccs if the light attack is actually absorbed by a shield - so harness magica is no longer a 26s self debuff you can´t remove when encountering someone with shieldbreaker.

I don't know why people use bold or capital letter when making a point. Doing so does not make them all of a sudden right nor does it stand for evidence when there is none.

What you are saying is your opinion and that is all. Show us where ZoS said anything of the sort. Even if they did, the game has changed so much since launch, those statements would be obsolete.

How can you say the class is designed around their shield? When the game launched, that is, when the game was closest to its intended design, health was far easier to stack and those class shields that scaled off health gave them the same sort of protection that Sorcerers have enjoyed with hardened ward since 1.6. A Templar had blazing shield and the supposed tankiness that people believe is associated with the class and breath of life. Where is the consistency in Zenimax design?

You say Zenimax has refused to give this class a reliable self heal, but that is not true at all. Before 1.6, surge was insanely reliable (at least for PVE) as we were all stacking crit anyway and a sorc could do damage and heal at the same time. I could walk into a pack of mobs in light armor and no shields and reliably heal just by AoEing. That this didnt work in PVP was due to the stupidity of the old impenetrable trait, not because the sorcerer class lack the tools. And also with the wide versatility provided by the multiple skill lines available outside classes, any "X is not part of the class design so Y" arguments are dubious because sorcerers could easily avail themselves of a very good heal.

And you are giving Zenimax far too much credit and foresight attributing their designs to coherent or consistent balance. I have sat in enough TS meeting with Zenimax's designers to realize that their customers who theorycraft this game are much more knowledgeable of it then they are. We are living with this questionable 50% debuff and artificial cost increase mechanisms in Cyrodiil precisely because they are incapable of devising a consistent damage/mitigation/healing/defensive system that works on its own merits.

You believe hardened ward on its own is balanced. That is your opinion. It's not a fact. It's not worthy of being bolded. I do not share that opinion. I play a sorcerer that has the rank of colonel in PvP and has done all the PvE content in the game. I have enough experience to know what that skill can do and what it is capable of. That means my assessment is also an opinion. Because it is just that, there is no need to put in in bold or capitalize is. Military effectiveness is measured in terms of firepower, resilience, and mobility. Because hardened ward scaled off magicka and sorcerers have bolt escape (also based off magicka), that class is alone in the ESO universe that could stack everything into a single attribute and derive benefits in all three. Stamina NBs came close because they were best suited to perma-dodge roll, but even their shenanigans could not evade multiple pursuers forever. In a 1.6 universe that pandered to glass cannon builds and placed a premium on escapability, it was a devastating combination that rightly got criticized.

None of this mean I think this set is a good idea. I am of the opinion that this armor set is a clumsy means to address this imbalance (as if stamina NBs were the only class complaining about sorcerers and their shields). But Zenimax, who was told during the 1.6 PTS process about the dangers of removing softcaps and sorcerer mechanics, has given no indication that they intend on addressing the core mechanics that have turned sorcerers into the least desirable class to play in 1.5 to the one that was accused of being OP in 1.6.

CP5

Derra wrote: »

Kh0ll wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

The magicka sorcerer design is missed no doubt, is it the fault of the sorcerer however if ZeniMax has never been able to give an alternative to this class?
Since the release our only defense remains shields. Not since the 1.6 since the release.
I agree that this is not fun for other classes but what other tools do we survive?
The sorcerer magicka is designed around these shields.
Since the release i play the same build, only 1 or 2 slots change because i haven't another choice.... except playing stamina.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Pretty much this ^

Magica sorcerers have their one "foty" build since release of the game and a petbuild that is extremely niche because of how clunky and in most scenarios uneffective pets are. Both of these builds rely on shields as their main defense. There has been quite a bit of thinking outside the box. The sad truth is: The class is lacking the options to be competetive without their must have skills and hardened ward is your #1 skill in that category.

The alternative is stamina.

This is the main issue. I find it odd that people who don't like fighting this foty build are not trying to get ZOS's attention to give the class options. If sorcerer's had these options then we wouldn't be in this situation since people wouldn't be seeing the same thing over and over when fighting the class. I still remember the post from back in February when we were told the team was working on ways to make the class more viable in different roles. Needless to say I think they've failed with the stamina lightning form and minor healing buff on ward...

SkylarkAU

To answer OP's question: because it's a bubble not a box and you're not my real mom.

Forestd16b14_ESO

LegendaryChef

I personally feel that the shield breaker set should have at least a percentage chance on being able to proc, maybe say 25% so that 1/4 of your shots are likely to proc the set.

Master_Kas

Perhaps tone down the damage to 1300 - 1600 instead of 2k+

A cooldown will make the set worthless.

I encountered a player using this today on my sorcerer, didn't help him win.
Tough I can imagine it being pretty dangerous if some decent/good players uses it.

Galalin

All i can say is....

dirty sorcs

But i love you all!

Maybe try some health instead of stacking 40k+ magicka

DK SCRUB OUT

FriedEggSandwich

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

But sorcs already have a skill that does that called Boundless Storm. It's hilarious running around with it and watching bow users trying to light attack me. So many people know so little about the sorc class and yet have such strong opinions.

Darnathian

BigTone wrote: »

1v1 this set is not a problem for me, the problem arises when one person is spamming over 2k light attacks and another is regular big time damage moves (like wrecking blow). 1v1 verses a shield breaker I just out dps/cc them and I win. One person with a SB set and one without puts me in a bad situation.

My recommendation to fix shield stacking (even though it has already been nerfed) would be to weaken a shield if it is cast over another shield. For example you cast hardened ward and then harness on top of it. The strengths of harness is reduced by 50%.

Since this set is already in existence, one of the following should be done:

1. Reduce the damage to 1.5k per hit
2. Give the set a cooldown
3. Have the proc do 8k (or whatever number you see fit) to the shield only. This would be a true "sheild breaker" set
4. Be forced to land 5 consecutive light attacks to proc set
5. Fifth bonus is active for X amount of time, then initiate cooldown

To all of the people claiming that Shield Breaker users are making themselves weaker to all others by using this set you are simply wrong. The two, three, and four piece set bonuses are beneficial to ANY stam user, and the fifth is against almost all magicka users.

Need to get rid of shield stacking period.

Darnathian

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

No.

The sorcerer class is designed around their class shield. This is why zenimax refuses to provide sorcs with any reliable class based form of healing for pvp. The class design basically says: Heal up slowly under your shield with rgn crits or very low casted heals when out of los.
The class is pidgeonholed into the use of this ability because it´s the only instant cast defense spell they get. If you´d change hardened ward the way you want it it would basically be the same as removing breath of life from templars and the jabs heal on dmg and then telling them they are fine.

The problem is not hardened ward but stacking it with other shields (harness for the absolute cheese against magica builds and healing ward).

Furthermore i don´t think they can remove shieldbreaker anymore. People already spent millions on this set with the right trait. The only thing i could personally see working by now is:

Option 1: Give the set a 1s cooldown on the procc. This virtually changes nothing for any user but the light attack spamming bowtard. It´s still a powerful set to combat shieldusers but no longer turns a fight completely upside down.

Option 2: Buff the dmg but let the set only attack shields not HP.

Also they need to fix it so the set only proccs if the light attack is actually absorbed by a shield - so harness magica is no longer a 26s self debuff you can´t remove when encountering someone with shieldbreaker.

I don't know why people use bold or capital letter when making a point. Doing so does not make them all of a sudden right nor does it stand for evidence when there is none.

What you are saying is your opinion and that is all. Show us where ZoS said anything of the sort. Even if they did, the game has changed so much since launch, those statements would be obsolete.

How can you say the class is designed around their shield? When the game launched, that is, when the game was closest to its intended design, health was far easier to stack and those class shields that scaled off health gave them the same sort of protection that Sorcerers have enjoyed with hardened ward since 1.6. A Templar had blazing shield and the supposed tankiness that people believe is associated with the class and breath of life. Where is the consistency in Zenimax design?

You say Zenimax has refused to give this class a reliable self heal, but that is not true at all. Before 1.6, surge was insanely reliable (at least for PVE) as we were all stacking crit anyway and a sorc could do damage and heal at the same time. I could walk into a pack of mobs in light armor and no shields and reliably heal just by AoEing. That this didnt work in PVP was due to the stupidity of the old impenetrable trait, not because the sorcerer class lack the tools. And also with the wide versatility provided by the multiple skill lines available outside classes, any "X is not part of the class design so Y" arguments are dubious because sorcerers could easily avail themselves of a very good heal.

And you are giving Zenimax far too much credit and foresight attributing their designs to coherent or consistent balance. I have sat in enough TS meeting with Zenimax's designers to realize that their customers who theorycraft this game are much more knowledgeable of it then they are. We are living with this questionable 50% debuff and artificial cost increase mechanisms in Cyrodiil precisely because they are incapable of devising a consistent damage/mitigation/healing/defensive system that works on its own merits.

You believe hardened ward on its own is balanced. That is your opinion. It's not a fact. It's not worthy of being bolded. I do not share that opinion. I play a sorcerer that has the rank of colonel in PvP and has done all the PvE content in the game. I have enough experience to know what that skill can do and what it is capable of. That means my assessment is also an opinion. Because it is just that, there is no need to put in in bold or capitalize is. Military effectiveness is measured in terms of firepower, resilience, and mobility. Because hardened ward scaled off magicka and sorcerers have bolt escape (also based off magicka), that class is alone in the ESO universe that could stack everything into a single attribute and derive benefits in all three. Stamina NBs came close because they were best suited to perma-dodge roll, but even their shenanigans could not evade multiple pursuers forever. In a 1.6 universe that pandered to glass cannon builds and placed a premium on escapability, it was a devastating combination that rightly got criticized.

None of this mean I think this set is a good idea. I am of the opinion that this armor set is a clumsy means to address this imbalance (as if stamina NBs were the only class complaining about sorcerers and their shields). But Zenimax, who was told during the 1.6 PTS process about the dangers of removing softcaps and sorcerer mechanics, has given no indication that they intend on addressing the core mechanics that have turned sorcerers into the least desirable class to play in 1.5 to the one that was accused of being OP in 1.6.

Now that was a great post. Thank you for your integrity.

Bring back 1.5 on a stand alone server with no cp's and some small changes from people like this fellow and see how many flock to that server. Would be pop locked around the clock

Darnathian

CP5 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kh0ll wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

The magicka sorcerer design is missed no doubt, is it the fault of the sorcerer however if ZeniMax has never been able to give an alternative to this class?
Since the release our only defense remains shields. Not since the 1.6 since the release.
I agree that this is not fun for other classes but what other tools do we survive?
The sorcerer magicka is designed around these shields.
Since the release i play the same build, only 1 or 2 slots change because i haven't another choice.... except playing stamina.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Pretty much this ^

Magica sorcerers have their one "foty" build since release of the game and a petbuild that is extremely niche because of how clunky and in most scenarios uneffective pets are. Both of these builds rely on shields as their main defense. There has been quite a bit of thinking outside the box. The sad truth is: The class is lacking the options to be competetive without their must have skills and hardened ward is your #1 skill in that category.

The alternative is stamina.

This is the main issue. I find it odd that people who don't like fighting this foty build are not trying to get ZOS's attention to give the class options. If sorcerer's had these options then we wouldn't be in this situation since people wouldn't be seeing the same thing over and over when fighting the class. I still remember the post from back in February when we were told the team was working on ways to make the class more viable in different roles. Needless to say I think they've failed with the stamina lightning form and minor healing buff on ward...

Omg. You serious? WE TRIED. Do I need to quote some of yours and other sorcs responses before this went live when people suggested other changes?

Darnathian

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

But sorcs already have a skill that does that called Boundless Storm. It's hilarious running around with it and watching bow users trying to light attack me. So many people know so little about the sorc class and yet have such strong opinions.

Lol. BURN.

FriedEggSandwich

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

No.

The sorcerer class is designed around their class shield. This is why zenimax refuses to provide sorcs with any reliable class based form of healing for pvp. The class design basically says: Heal up slowly under your shield with rgn crits or very low casted heals when out of los.
The class is pidgeonholed into the use of this ability because it´s the only instant cast defense spell they get. If you´d change hardened ward the way you want it it would basically be the same as removing breath of life from templars and the jabs heal on dmg and then telling them they are fine.

The problem is not hardened ward but stacking it with other shields (harness for the absolute cheese against magica builds and healing ward).[/b]

Furthermore i don´t think they can remove shieldbreaker anymore. People already spent millions on this set with the right trait. The only thing i could personally see working by now is:

Option 1: Give the set a 1s cooldown on the procc. This virtually changes nothing for any user but the light attack spamming bowtard. It´s still a powerful set to combat shieldusers but no longer turns a fight completely upside down.

Option 2: Buff the dmg but let the set only attack shields not HP.

Also they need to fix it so the set only proccs if the light attack is actually absorbed by a shield - so harness magica is no longer a 26s self debuff you can´t remove when encountering someone with shieldbreaker.

I don't know why people use bold or capital letter when making a point. Doing so does not make them all of a sudden right nor does it stand for evidence when there is none.

What you are saying is your opinion and that is all. Show us where ZoS said anything of the sort. Even if they did, the game has changed so much since launch, those statements would be obsolete.

How can you say the class is designed around their shield? When the game launched, that is, when the game was closest to its intended design, health was far easier to stack and those class shields that scaled off health gave them the same sort of protection that Sorcerers have enjoyed with hardened ward since 1.6. A Templar had blazing shield and the supposed tankiness that people believe is associated with the class and breath of life. Where is the consistency in Zenimax design?

You say Zenimax has refused to give this class a reliable self heal, but that is not true at all. Before 1.6, surge was insanely reliable (at least for PVE) as we were all stacking crit anyway and a sorc could do damage and heal at the same time. I could walk into a pack of mobs in light armor and no shields and reliably heal just by AoEing. That this didnt work in PVP was due to the stupidity of the old impenetrable trait, not because the sorcerer class lack the tools. And also with the wide versatility provided by the multiple skill lines available outside classes, any "X is not part of the class design so Y" arguments are dubious because sorcerers could easily avail themselves of a very good heal.

And you are giving Zenimax far too much credit and foresight attributing their designs to coherent or consistent balance. I have sat in enough TS meeting with Zenimax's designers to realize that their customers who theorycraft this game are much more knowledgeable of it then they are. We are living with this questionable 50% debuff and artificial cost increase mechanisms in Cyrodiil precisely because they are incapable of devising a consistent damage/mitigation/healing/defensive system that works on its own merits.

You believe hardened ward on its own is balanced. That is your opinion. It's not a fact. It's not worthy of being bolded. I do not share that opinion. I play a sorcerer that has the rank of colonel in PvP and has done all the PvE content in the game. I have enough experience to know what that skill can do and what it is capable of. That means my assessment is also an opinion. Because it is just that, there is no need to put in in bold or capitalize is. Military effectiveness is measured in terms of firepower, resilience, and mobility. Because hardened ward scaled off magicka and sorcerers have bolt escape (also based off magicka), that class is alone in the ESO universe that could stack everything into a single attribute and derive benefits in all three. Stamina NBs came close because they were best suited to perma-dodge roll, but even their shenanigans could not evade multiple pursuers forever. In a 1.6 universe that pandered to glass cannon builds and placed a premium on escapability, it was a devastating combination that rightly got criticized.

None of this mean I think this set is a good idea. I am of the opinion that this armor set is a clumsy means to address this imbalance (as if stamina NBs were the only class complaining about sorcerers and their shields). But Zenimax, who was told during the 1.6 PTS process about the dangers of removing softcaps and sorcerer mechanics, has given no indication that they intend on addressing the core mechanics that have turned sorcerers into the least desirable class to play in 1.5 to the one that was accused of being OP in 1.6.

Because we're supposed to wear light armour which was nerfed in 1.6 and zos hasn't given us access to a heal anywhere near as good as vigor. We can't mitigate or heal through damage, we can't make damage miss us repeatedly, so the only thing we have left to do with the damage is run from it or absorb it. People complained about us running from it so they nerfed bolt escape several times, now people don't want us to absorb it either. What should sorcs do with damage?

FriedEggSandwich

Darnathian wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1 change hardened ward to create an effect that 'enhances light armor to provide the protection leather gives' so ita no longer a shield. Now all classes have the same shield options.

2 get rid of shieldbreaker. If the 5 piece bonus said 'gives 2k dps' it would be a laughing stock. With the change above it is no longer needed.

Easy, everyone is happy.

But sorcs already have a skill that does that called Boundless Storm. It's hilarious running around with it and watching bow users trying to light attack me. So many people know so little about the sorc class and yet have such strong opinions.

Lol. BURN.

Lolwut? Boundless Storm isn't a ward it's an armour buff so shieldbreaker doesn't proc against it. I was just saying it's funny watching bow users trying to light attack me but failing.

Sanct16

Crit Surge.

CP5

Darnathian wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kh0ll wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think its due to the fact that most sorcs used to run the exact same build.

The magicka sorcerer design is missed no doubt, is it the fault of the sorcerer however if ZeniMax has never been able to give an alternative to this class?
Since the release our only defense remains shields. Not since the 1.6 since the release.
I agree that this is not fun for other classes but what other tools do we survive?
The sorcerer magicka is designed around these shields.
Since the release i play the same build, only 1 or 2 slots change because i haven't another choice.... except playing stamina.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Pretty much this ^

Magica sorcerers have their one "foty" build since release of the game and a petbuild that is extremely niche because of how clunky and in most scenarios uneffective pets are. Both of these builds rely on shields as their main defense. There has been quite a bit of thinking outside the box. The sad truth is: The class is lacking the options to be competetive without their must have skills and hardened ward is your #1 skill in that category.

The alternative is stamina.

This is the main issue. I find it odd that people who don't like fighting this foty build are not trying to get ZOS's attention to give the class options. If sorcerer's had these options then we wouldn't be in this situation since people wouldn't be seeing the same thing over and over when fighting the class. I still remember the post from back in February when we were told the team was working on ways to make the class more viable in different roles. Needless to say I think they've failed with the stamina lightning form and minor healing buff on ward...

Omg. You serious? WE TRIED. Do I need to quote some of yours and other sorcs responses before this went live when people suggested other changes?

Quiet, you don't bring statements that involve facts like that into shield related threads. People see the class one way and instantly imagine "wow, all these people going for the easy mode build" but don't think that the class is designed as a box, air tight, with a bunch of stickers all over it. Its no longer the time to give zos ideas it seems, we're nearing seven months since we were told Eric would have insight for us as to what they are planning on doing with the class.

Carde

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Change hardened ward from a damage shield to an armour enhancement.
Literally magickally hardened armour.

Set the level of physical and magical resist buffs.
Set an appropriate cost.
Set an appropriate duration for that cost.

How would sorcs feel about that instead ?
You don't get permanent high armour wearing light, but you can get 'temporary' heavy armour using magicka.

This makes sorcs hard to kill still, but doenst make them invincible.
This still give Sorcs a unique class defining ability.
Sorcs cant spam the skill without seriously draining their magicka pool.
Sorcs have to worry about their health pool even with hardened amrour (rather than just lockout the healthbar).
Armour can of course be crit.
If you run out of magicka you are toast in 7 light.

So basically you want to turn it into Bound Armor?

FriedEggSandwich

Sanct16 wrote: »

Crit Surge.

Heals for 60% of damage done when you crit, but only buffs weapon damage. Power surge buffs weapon and spell damage but only heals for 40% of damage done, again only when you crit. So you need to stack crit to make this a reliable heal. This is of course possible but shouldn't be the only way for sorcs to survive.

Frags is the hardest hitting skill I have which crits for 8k after all the mitigation is calculated. Assume you stacked crit to 50% to use surge, frags would heal you for 4k 50% of the time you actually managed to land one. Take into account that sorcs only launch frags 35% of the time when it procs. OK we have other ways of doing damage but curse only crits for 6k, light/heavy attacks crit for 2-3k. Surge is only returning half of that damage as hp, and only when you crit. Players using this set can continuously hit you for 2.1k more than once per second.

I know you know all this cos I've seen you on your sorc, but I wanted to clarify why surge isn't a counter to this set. Surge + other heal is more feasible. I'm finding it's better just to tank up and wear 1x heavy armour +aegis + boundless storm though.

CP5

Carde wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Change hardened ward from a damage shield to an armour enhancement.
Literally magickally hardened armour.

Set the level of physical and magical resist buffs.
Set an appropriate cost.
Set an appropriate duration for that cost.

How would sorcs feel about that instead ?
You don't get permanent high armour wearing light, but you can get 'temporary' heavy armour using magicka.

This makes sorcs hard to kill still, but doenst make them invincible.
This still give Sorcs a unique class defining ability.
Sorcs cant spam the skill without seriously draining their magicka pool.
Sorcs have to worry about their health pool even with hardened amrour (rather than just lockout the healthbar).
Armour can of course be crit.
If you run out of magicka you are toast in 7 light.

So basically you want to turn it into Bound Armor?

Or... boundless storm?