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Tanking in 2.1 : it is possible, managable with explainations and proof.
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Apokh✭✭✭✭✭@murmeltier: i honestly ask you: our top healer is doing about 11k dps in dsavet stage 10 and keeping us alive (no we are not pro, perhaps xperienced) Is he that good or are you that bad then, if you don't even get your support role managed?Edited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 3:48PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.0 -
Swarog✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Man if your raids has so low dps that 4th axe comes up, it tells me that your raid is inexperienced...
Man if you think a raids have to be only experienced you wrong. There are raids with new mates that just learning how to do their job and tank have to be very strong while they do it. I'm able to hold 5 Axes with 3 Storm Atronachs on AA HM on live while my mates are learning. I don't think I will be able to repeat this on PTS.
And one more. Tanks don't just taunting and holding the block (bad tanks does so). Tanks are stacking up mobs together and damaging them with mates. Tanks are resurrecting fallen mates under mobs attacks while others damaging (healers too). Tanks are leading the group as they more experienced in tactics.
Tanking boring? What?!$ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.6 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Murmeltier wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Tanking in 2.1: it is possible:
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins,
Healer not templar with shards
"player XYZ kicked from group"
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins
- "healer link your weapons"
Anything but not Master Resto staff
"Player XYZ kicked from group"
All for the good of long term health of game.
As a VR14 Templar Healer i can confirm this. The Stamina Regeneration changes will hit the Healers very hard too.
1. Tanks dont block so often because they want to build up Stamina. Sometimes there are to many Effects or Enemys on the Screen, so you cant see all the Moves that will hit you. They get bigger hits and i have to heal more often. That lowers my Rescources more then before.
2. Tanks demands the Shards* (insert other skill*) for the Support. That cost me minimum one Skillslot, that i cant use for my Magicka Management or Heals.
3. It lowers the Time i have to manage my Rescources.
4. Guilds/Raids will demand Masterstaffs or Special Skills, Equip for Raids. That lowers my Option to build my own Ideas, i will transform into a Templar Healer - Zombie, without own Will.
5. Healing in Trashmobs without blockcasting, because the Stamina is to fast away? Yay, all Healers want this Action, we are bored too. Now try this as a Dps, stay in a Trashmob and bomb it, without Stamina. Several Aoes, 2h Swinging Mobs and maybe a Dragonknight Standard like in Spindleclutch, have Fun.
Learn to block in a Trashmob, no perma blocking, only block if one of the 5+ Mobs trys to hit you with a deadly Attack. You cant see the deadly Attacks because of the many Effects, then you have to learn to adapt it. If not, some Groups & Raids could kick you out.
Yeah, sure you can see this and move out of this, because you are faster then the "Flash". I see this all Days, again and again. Perfect Movement from "perfect" Dps Players
.
Is it impossible, no but harder then before. The Healers have to adapt this but as a Dps you have to learn this too, if not you are only a red Spot on the Floor.
Dont Forget, not every Group is a Pro Group in VDSA, where the Tactics are so save that the most Mobs cant hit back.
So as a Dps, only block if a big Hit is incoming, if you fail you are dead. But perma blocking is so boring, you will love these Changes. Learn to adapt this. If not you will die because the Healer is supporting the Tank, manage his Rescources and have no Time for weak Movement or Blocking-Skills. He cant heal Onehit-Wonders.
As a DD you better give up some Dps and raise your Hitpoints & Defenses, Guilds could demand this too.
I wont say it will be that much harder for healers. Were at the state of IFS and MAYBES.
I said it before, I have 2 great healers that runs end game content with me. I never really need to call out for spears. They just do it when they can and so far its been working wonders.
Also, were run around 1 huge assumption : that tanks will still be blocking 100% of the time.
Actually you will see tanks who are OK with stam/blocking that will not required that much those spears. Its just that now you will see a wide range of tanks with different strengt/weaknesses.
Remember 1 thing: Spears is only 1 way to regen stam while blocking. There are many others, most of which have been discussed already in these posts.
Another assumption were making is that tanks will need shards 24/7.
You will encounter tanks who will be built right have have the right gameplay to be able to survive without Shards. I'm sure in 1 month, most good endgame tank wont be requesting actively shards.
Same with healers with masterstaff.
Then again, your right, with the changes, the learning curve will be very steep. I think at the beginning things like shards and master resto staff will help but as players will progress, you will be able to replace those for more variety.
I feel like ZoS wants people to practice a lot more to master their role. Look at vdsa and look at how long it took for 1 group to clear it. Then look at how long it took for the majority people to clear it. I think that is their plan/projection. Everyone will end up clearing the content, but not right away. Therefore I think there is still a lot in there for less hardcore players.
I explained my Points, and i like your Motivation to see some Positive Points in the Future. We have different Experiences, thats ok. Thank you.0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Man if your raids has so low dps that 4th axe comes up, it tells me that your raid is inexperienced...
Man if you think a raids have to be only experienced you wrong. There are raids with new mates that just learning how to do their job and tank have to be very strong while they do it. I'm able to hold 5 Axes with 3 Storm Atronachs on AA HM on live while my mates are learning. I don't think I will be able to repeat this on PTS.
And one more. Tanks don't just taunting and holding the block (bad tanks does so). Tanks are stacking up mobs together and damaging them with mates. Tanks are resurrecting fallen mates under mobs attacks while others damaging (healers too). Tanks are leading the group as they more experienced in tactics.
Tanking boring? What?!
Unexperienced = nicer way to say that they are bad.
You holding 5 axes prooves that you are a great tank. But also means that your raid dps is........Edited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 3:53PM0 -
Apokh✭✭✭✭✭Hahaha you mean those guys having more gametime than you and title themselves as unexperienced?
When you think it is a good thing to explain mechanics and tactics during the fight, this is sure interesting. We do this before and after the fights, so i dont need to tank half a dozend axes ;j perhaps try this out? Or get a new bunch of dps ppl? There are other ways to prepare ppl for trials i guess.Edited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 4:00PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.0 -
Swarog✭✭✭
Indeed. Training raid DPS is low but it's not a problem because it's training.houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Unexperienced = nicer way to say that they are bad.
You holding 5 axes prooves that you are a great tank. But also means that your raid dps is........
Newbies must have an ability to learn while tanks must be able to help them.$ Welcome to the new trade guild The Wolves. Our trader located in Wayrest. Join us! Send me mail or /tell to @swarog.2 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭True. But unfortunately being the one who carries the raid all the way to the will be much more difficult.
But at one point, tanks needs also to rely on team members to do their jobs. In an idea scenario, you wont have to tank 5 axes in HM AA. And to be fair, some people might say that if the raid gets the 5th axe out they deserve to wipe it.
On the other hand, next patch, assuming you are not able to tank 5 axes, in that situation your team may wipe ''this one'' but succeed the next encounter as they will know what you rely on them as much as they rely on you.
But I agree in terms on learning fights... The numbers of of hero tank i've seen in early vet dsa being the last man standing and kill off a rez on the healer with the whole arena smacking on them saving the day...
But we are far from the subject of being able to clear content with the state of blocking.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Sorry, I should've tagged that part of my post as sarcasm.
I am not trying to tell what healers should do (or well, yes I am: they should heal).
I definitely do not expect healers to be DPSing lol
I am just finding the tanks funny who try to make arguments such as: "well, but.. but.. you had a healer spamming heals on you!!".
Of course healers should be spamming heals when required, that's what being a healer is.
It is good that this patch is making the role of healer as well more important & demanding. I doubt healers will be pulling 15k DPS anymore on Hiath, because the tank is 100% self sustaining.
No, you'll actually have to heal that tank.
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Indeed. Training raid DPS is low but it's not a problem because it's training.houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Unexperienced = nicer way to say that they are bad.
You holding 5 axes prooves that you are a great tank. But also means that your raid dps is........
Newbies must have an ability to learn while tanks must be able to help them.
Why don't you go train those DPS to somewhere like vet dailies or DSA?
When 12-man trials are used as "training grounds", then there's something seriously wrong with the game.0 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
Yeah
My feeling to: all roles are getting more interesting and co-awareness is more important. Nice
but
I am not that sure that the new and not so bright-nimble Tanks are helped with this higher level. So how to solve that?
"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU0 -
Instant✭✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Sorry, I should've tagged that part of my post as sarcasm.
I am not trying to tell what healers should do (or well, yes I am: they should heal).
I definitely do not expect healers to be DPSing lol
I am just finding the tanks funny who try to make arguments such as: "well, but.. but.. you had a healer spamming heals on you!!".
Of course healers should be spamming heals when required, that's what being a healer is.
It is good that this patch is making the role of healer as well more important & demanding. I doubt healers will be pulling 15k DPS anymore on Hiath, because the tank is 100% self sustaining.
No, you'll actually have to heal that tank.
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
When there is a heal spamming heals then you can do dungeons without a tank because none of the dds is one-shot from the bosses standard attacks and when the next attack comes the dd will be at full health again (because heal spam). All you have to do is tell your dds to block heavy attacks from boss.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
Yeah
My feeling to: all roles are getting more interesting and co-awareness is more important. Nice
but
I am not that sure that the new and not so bright-nimble Tanks are helped with this higher level. So how to solve that?
Make them tank content gradually harder. From old v5/10 dungeons to vCoH, vCoA, DSA, vDSA, WGT/IP. There is a learning curve to respect.Edited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 4:26PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Sorry, I should've tagged that part of my post as sarcasm.
I am not trying to tell what healers should do (or well, yes I am: they should heal).
I definitely do not expect healers to be DPSing lol
I am just finding the tanks funny who try to make arguments such as: "well, but.. but.. you had a healer spamming heals on you!!".
Of course healers should be spamming heals when required, that's what being a healer is.
It is good that this patch is making the role of healer as well more important & demanding. I doubt healers will be pulling 15k DPS anymore on Hiath, because the tank is 100% self sustaining.
No, you'll actually have to heal that tank.
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
When there is a heal spamming heals then you can do dungeons without a tank because none of the dds is one-shot from the bosses standard attacks and when the next attack comes the dd will be at full health again (because heal spam). All you have to do is tell your dds to block heavy attacks from boss.
You can already do dungeons without a tank, that's how I do my dailies, well.. daily.
Hold block when you get aggro, spam steel tornado & heal with vigor. No problem.
No stam regen while blocking? No infinite roll dodging? Well... turns out we finally do need actual tanks with 50% mitigation.
Really... this should be obvious.0 -
Noticed this last night rerolling a vr16 DK with all gold Black Rose, and other sets.. What did they do to the armor values?
(Granted black rose is all infused, and I run currently reinforced a lot.) Even with Dragon armor, I wasn't able to get close to 50% cap regardless of the CP's I allocated. The best combination I could find was 75 in Block to get the passive for shield % boost, and the rest in heavy armor.... Even then It was like 24K physical???Edited by mattlarsonmdl_ESO on August 19, 2015 4:53PM2 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭@murmeltier: i honestly ask you: our top healer is doing about 11k dps in dsavet stage 10 and keeping us alive (no we are not pro, perhaps xperienced) Is he that good or are you that bad then, if you don't even get your support role managed?
@apokh, np.
1. VDSA doesnt impressed me, if you have a good Group you have higher Numbers, if not you will have lower Numbers. What should us say this, he makes more Dps? If the Group is good, he dont have to heal much and can Dps more, the Difference can be great here etc. So maybe 11k Dps is high, maybe i make more, it isnt really interesting for me.
2. I throw the whole Time Spears, Laserbeams and Burstheals. How high my Numbers in Dps are, who knows i dont use any Addons. My Goal is to save the Group & Raid and if i have Time i support them with some Dps. Thats nothing new. So, i dont have any Problems with my Management, i dont like the Changes because they cost more of my Rescources and i have to choose Special Skills.
Please read my Text next Time, and dont try to start a Challenge with Numbers because this Shows me how serious i have to take your Questions, or not.
2 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭Oh i post this a second Time, sorry.
Edited by Murmeltier on August 19, 2015 5:33PM0 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Sorry, I should've tagged that part of my post as sarcasm.
I am not trying to tell what healers should do (or well, yes I am: they should heal).
I definitely do not expect healers to be DPSing lol
I am just finding the tanks funny who try to make arguments such as: "well, but.. but.. you had a healer spamming heals on you!!".
Of course healers should be spamming heals when required, that's what being a healer is.
It is good that this patch is making the role of healer as well more important & demanding. I doubt healers will be pulling 15k DPS anymore on Hiath, because the tank is 100% self sustaining.
No, you'll actually have to heal that tank.
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
Intersting Arguments, Sarcasm or not. I like that you act friendly, so i can stop my "aggressive" Style. Thank you for that, Peace .
Oh i Forget to say, i healed the Tank the whole Time (Automatic Healing), but with 1.7 i have to heal him more if he try to recover Stamina without a Block. That could be happen, i am sure ....or i give him the last Blessing if Manticore Onehits him
...
Edited by Murmeltier on August 19, 2015 5:41PM0 -
Instant✭✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Sorry, I should've tagged that part of my post as sarcasm.
I am not trying to tell what healers should do (or well, yes I am: they should heal).
I definitely do not expect healers to be DPSing lol
I am just finding the tanks funny who try to make arguments such as: "well, but.. but.. you had a healer spamming heals on you!!".
Of course healers should be spamming heals when required, that's what being a healer is.
It is good that this patch is making the role of healer as well more important & demanding. I doubt healers will be pulling 15k DPS anymore on Hiath, because the tank is 100% self sustaining.
No, you'll actually have to heal that tank.
Which is a good thing, and one of the many points I've made regarding this stam regen change: it doesn't just affect tanks' playstyle, it also makes the playstyle of healers more fun & interesting (now that tanks actually require healing) and it means DPS might actually have to avoid hits and red circles every now & then.
When there is a heal spamming heals then you can do dungeons without a tank because none of the dds is one-shot from the bosses standard attacks and when the next attack comes the dd will be at full health again (because heal spam). All you have to do is tell your dds to block heavy attacks from boss.
You can already do dungeons without a tank, that's how I do my dailies, well.. daily.
Hold block when you get aggro, spam steel tornado & heal with vigor. No problem.
No stam regen while blocking? No infinite roll dodging? Well... turns out we finally do need actual tanks with 50% mitigation.
Really... this should be obvious.
This won't change anything. Most daily bosses die in less than 20s. You can't run out of stamina in that time.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.0 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Dude I will never say anothing against healers until I can heal everyone's butts by myself. They are like wives, try not to anger them.
But to know how they work is benefitial for a tank as it helps you synergize with them even more. As I tank I communicate a lot more during fights with the healers as other dps. I'm always like : can I do this, do you need that, I can manage this myself, you can focus on that
Then again, its my playstyle. I run BoL on my templar, Igneous Shield on my DK and back up the healer as much as I can
Ok, these are good Arguments. I do the same, and i like this Interaction between the Classes too. And...we are like what???....i mean, how you can write this....we are not...never, how you can do this....thats not fair. I go and buy some Shoes
. 0 -
Apokh✭✭✭✭✭Not knowing your numbers (for yourself) is another expression for " i dont mind" or " i better dont wanna know". I can understand that, but how do you ever know how you compete?
Answer: you dont
You can do dsa and most vet dungeons without a dedicated heal, as well as you can do them atm without dedicated tanks. So...lets all just dps...Edited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 5:58PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭mattlarsonmdl_ESO wrote: »Noticed this last night rerolling a vr16 DK with all gold Black Rose, and other sets.. What did they do to the armor values?
(Granted black rose is all infused, and I run currently reinforced a lot.) Even with Dragon armor, I wasn't able to get close to 50% cap regardless of the CP's I allocated. The best combination I could find was 75 in Block to get the passive for shield % boost, and the rest in heavy armor.... Even then It was like 24K physical???
Was able to get capped in spellresist using the new head/shoulder of lord warden/armor buff/full heavy. But was at 23k physical resist for some reason.Edited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 5:58PM0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »[[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
Since Launch, could you give me a list of nerfs to tanks?[/quote]
DK Only
Ash Cloud - miss chance
Scales - too many to count
Chains - too high or too low bug and, arguably, the pulled to cc immune enemy effect
Other
Taunt Stealth Nerf - a wtf moment, but reverted
Inner Rage - magic taunt cost increase
Spell Symmetry - Gives less magic per health invested
Werewolf and vampire - have to slot skills
Resource cost increases going into 1.6 - cost to block and cost to break cc increased
Roll cost - Double rolling to mitigate the effect of a snare is much worse now
Disproportionate Effects
Resource nerf going into 1.6 that took 3 resources from tanks, but only 2 from other roles.
Champion point system - Tanks require more champion points than other roles to be as effective in resource management as the other roles.
Soft caps selectively removed - The currency of tanking, such as damage mitigation and block cost are soft capped, but other roles aren't soft capped in their currency of weapon or spell damage.
To answer your question, no, I can't give you a list of all the nerfs. I only tank with a DK and that is my perspective. Additionally, some nerfs, such as the disproportionate effect section, depend on a perspective. It seems that your perspective is to thank master for whatever wrong headed change is introduced to the game. For your great ability to adapt I award you the following. Honestly, no joke, good job.
My perspective, and many others, is to not be happy with a nerf. Yes we can adapt, but that comes at a cost. Now the cost to block is, in many cases, at least doubled and that is even if one is perfectly timing their blocks. Now tanks will have an even larger champion point burden, when compared to other roles, in order to just get back to where they were before Imperial City destroyed part of their resource management.
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »[[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
My perspective, and many others, is to not be happy with a nerf. Yes we can adapt, but that comes at a cost. Now the cost to block is, in many cases, at least doubled and that is even if one is perfectly timing their blocks. Now tanks will have an even larger champion point burden, when compared to other roles, in order to just get back to where they were before Imperial City destroyed part of their resource management.
Well nobody is happy to receive a nerf. Its like saying your happy to receive a kick in jingels (balls).
But CP system yet another debate. I cant complain as i've got quite a lot, doesnt mean i'm 100% happy of this system.
Right now all I have to say is that that your right on the CP strain (used to play a permablocking tank in pvp in 1.5. noticed the difference between 90-300+ CP) and that we need the block cost redux way too bad.
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Apokh✭✭✭✭✭We all invested various hours and gold in our builds and equip. So in the end no one is flawless happy. But when we begin like that, perhaps the best would be ZOS to tell to stop any future development regarding character progression and development. So everybody can stick with his build and gear for the next month, until they notice that most got rid of it and left for they can also sleep on their couch instead at the monitor, which is better for the back.
Watch out for sarcasm.Edited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 6:17PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We all invested various hours and gold in our builds and equip. So in the end no one is flawless happy. But when we begin like that, perhaps the best would be ZOS to tell to stop any future development regarding character progression and development. So everybody can stick with his build and gear for the next month, until they notice that most got rid of it and left for they can also sleep on their couch instead at the monitor, which is better for the back.
Watch out for sarcasm.
If AA had been designed after the stamina regeneration nerf, then would we have gotten one of the most fun fights in the game (the axes in AA)?
It is possible that AA would be made in the same way, but I don't think it would be likely. Regardless, my point is to illustrate that reducing player power level, in the way that the stamina regeneration nerf does, can be limiting to design space just like how you show players are limiting to design space with their resistance to change. I also think that a nerf to the bottleneck of survivability, the tank, is more limiting to design space than if only player DPS was reduced.Edited by Personofsecrets on August 19, 2015 6:23PM1 -
Thalmor-Nordmaster✭✭✭✭✭NERF SHARDS no stamina from shards. Make play challenging. Shards are OP !!!3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »[[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
My perspective, and many others, is to not be happy with a nerf. Yes we can adapt, but that comes at a cost. Now the cost to block is, in many cases, at least doubled and that is even if one is perfectly timing their blocks. Now tanks will have an even larger champion point burden, when compared to other roles, in order to just get back to where they were before Imperial City destroyed part of their resource management.
Well nobody is happy to receive a nerf. Its like saying your happy to receive a kick in jingels (balls).
But CP system yet another debate. I cant complain as i've got quite a lot, doesnt mean i'm 100% happy of this system.
Right now all I have to say is that that your right on the CP strain (used to play a permablocking tank in pvp in 1.5. noticed the difference between 90-300+ CP) and that we need the block cost redux way too bad.
At least what is on the flip side of the coin is that tanks will be super powerful when they have huge numbers of champion points. I really expect the extra base stats added from each CP to make tanks much more versatile.
That being said, I sit at 240 champion points myself and am somewhat frustrated with trying to keep all of my builds, for different types of content, balanced. After my time on the PTS, I really don't feel like I will be super valuable in PVP, but hopefully my friends will need a tank in the sewers.0 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just out of curiosity, has anybody been testing how the zero stamina regen effects lower-level Tanks? I've seen lots of tests from people in high-end content, but I'm wondering how this will possibly affect newer tanks when they are doing low-level dungeons. Before healers/templars have spear shards and lots of magika regen to keep spamming abilities, will this change still do okay?1 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Just out of curiosity, has anybody been testing how the zero stamina regen effects lower-level Tanks? I've seen lots of tests from people in high-end content, but I'm wondering how this will possibly affect newer tanks when they are doing low-level dungeons. Before healers/templars have spear shards and lots of magika regen to keep spamming abilities, will this change still do okay?
Oh ***. Didnt think of this. That could be problematic @ZOS_RichLambert ?0 -
houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Was able to get capped in spellresist using the new head/shoulder of lord warden/armor buff/full heavy. But was at 23k physical resist for some reason.
This has to some sort of bug. I cant see it being a bug.
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