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Tanking in 2.1 : it is possible, managable with explainations and proof.
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Instant✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Now try that on the Axes in AA HM.
Their attack speed is so slow its laughable. Can use jabs in between for trolling purposes.
I guess you have a heal constantly spamming healing spring on you, no?
90% of tank does. If I would run it with only 1 Healer, Would not be doing it with biting jabs. Would most likely slot a heal myself, use engine guardian, ask for a dps templar 1 or 2 spears every 10 secs or so.
But there is a way to block only their huge and slow attacks.
Synergies have a 20s cooldown afaik.
And yes of course there is a way but it's pointless because as soon as there are 3 axes because you won't get a single regen tick.
Try sorc tank wtih perma run buff, range taunt and bow and just kite the slow axes. pretty sure you can't snare them but they don't move that fast. You don't want a 2nd tank, will be a huge waste of dps.
noPeace is a lie, there is only passion.1 -
Apokh✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Tanking in 2.1: it is possible:
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins,
Healer not templar with shards
"player XYZ kicked from group"
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins
- "healer link your weapons"
Anything but not Master Resto staff
"Player XYZ kicked from group"
All for the good of long term health of game.
Awwww..."Dargus wants to be picked up at the kids paradise!"
Every time you where asked, WHERE YOU made your Xperience on PTS you replied? Nothing! You are just trolling!
There is no Templar without shards existing I´ve nerver, ever seen one for this skill is so much fun even lowies have it. If you find one, tell him to put a point in there and go.
When you have a problem as group leaderr to communicate to your group mates, when you are such an ass to kick ppl out of your group without xplaining - its no matter of stamina, its a matter of "charisma" and self confidence perhapsEdited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 1:43PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.1 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Now try that on the Axes in AA HM.
Their attack speed is so slow its laughable. Can use jabs in between for trolling purposes.
I guess you have a heal constantly spamming healing spring on you, no?
90% of tank does. If I would run it with only 1 Healer, Would not be doing it with biting jabs. Would most likely slot a heal myself, use engine guardian, ask for a dps templar 1 or 2 spears every 10 secs or so.
But there is a way to block only their huge and slow attacks.
Synergies have a 20s cooldown afaik.
And yes of course there is a way but it's pointless because as soon as there are 3 axes because you won't get a single regen tick.
So you get 3 axes at what, the end of the fight? How long you think you will have 3 axes on you? 30 secs? I'm pretty sure worst case senario a ressource pool of 15k stam can manage it with zero regen if you have the right reduc block cost setup. That is, if you are not using engine guardian/blockrose/dodge or other tools like that.
You could also cheeze the E.G. on a templar by spamming a lot of low cost abilities like Channel Focus to make it proc then use repentence on its dead body.
Plus I dont have the numbers of axe's damage but I'd be curious to see if I can pop a bubble/armor buff, sustain the unblocked damage for 1 heavy attack, then keep on blocking to sustain 3 axes longer. Would have to time it so I dont get hit by 2 or 3 at the same time.Edited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 1:37PM1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can you try this as a stamina build NB Tank without shard support ?
Edited by Rune_Relic on August 19, 2015 1:43PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited2 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »nordsavage wrote: »All you did was poke and soak and pop shields, you even died. You did little in the way of damage or buffing/debuffing. All I see is that tanking will be about keeping the gas tank full instead of actively steering the fight and supplemental dps. To any true tank your video is a point against the regen nerf.
You know what, you sound like you didnt even test this dungeon out in vet mode. Go ahead and do it before you can come here and lecture me.
If you want to sway a tank like me, make a video that actually looks like you did something. I have been tanking since day one and a long beta pull so I see what you did and did not do with absolute clarity. What went on in that video is the play style I see from new players who joined the game after the vet difficulty nerf. You know the soft ones who don't know more than hack and slash. Read through my comments on all these kinds of posts and I have an answer for every "remedy" for this regen nerf. Common ones are use Earthen Heart. ok well half those skills are useless in a dungeon especially vs. a boss. Not to mention they are expensive and have reduced effectiveness for stamina builds. Repentance and shards? Repentance requires corpses and both require that players use, have and are willing to cycle it into their Dps or healing routines. You know dps are all about posting stats in chat. Evil Hunter? Requires moderate stamina and undead for CHANCE for stamina. I "lecture" you because I wrote chapters of the book on how to tank.Edited by nordsavage on August 19, 2015 1:49PMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.3 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no Templar without shards existing I´ve nerver, ever seen one for this skill is so much fun even lowies have it. If you find one, tell him to put a point in there and go.
There's NB's, sorcs and DK's without shards...
Who said the healer is a templar anyway? I always assumed this game was play the way you want to or simliar.
You dont think it's a bit silly that every single dungeon group will require a dps- or heal templar throwing spears every 20 sec?
But what if the only templar is the tank? Than we need 2 templars than, so 50% of the group is templar, only to complete Imperial City prison or The White-Gold Tower lol?
ZOS definitely need to tweak this a little bit more.
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Can you try this as a stamina build NB Tank without shard support ?
Going to try on a tank NB using new Willow's Path for all 3 regen with 17k Stam.
Will be weird and clucky due to not having bubbles. Was all about having shadow barrier on, staying of ref. path, relying on 60% mitigation ult. Oh and the dodge ability.
I must admit I have an amazing healer.
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Can you try this as a stamina build NB Tank without shard support ?
Going to try on a tank NB using new Willow's Path for all 3 regen with 17k Stam.
Will be weird and clucky due to not having bubbles. Was all about having shadow barrier on, staying of ref. path, relying on 60% mitigation ult. Oh and the dodge ability.
I must admit I have an amazing healer.
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.
Magicka NB might work out better, use your image too for flat % damage reduction and slot a lot of shadow abilities.Edited by AhPook_Is_Here on August 19, 2015 2:09PM“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.[/quote]houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
There you go again, another point against, less magicka for replenishment of stamina and peripheral actions. Balance takes a hit for compensation.Edited by nordsavage on August 19, 2015 2:15PMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Can you try this as a stamina build NB Tank without shard support ?
Going to try on a tank NB using new Willow's Path for all 3 regen with 17k Stam.
Will be weird and clucky due to not having bubbles. Was all about having shadow barrier on, staying of ref. path, relying on 60% mitigation ult. Oh and the dodge ability.
I must admit I have an amazing healer.
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.
Damage reduction debuff on enemies, Bolstering Darkness for 60% reduction on dmg taken for 14 seconds - you will not need to hold block during this period guaranteed. Should be easy to regen full stamina & then tank until you have Bolstering Darkness up again for recovering stamina.
Just theorycrafting here
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »nordsavage wrote: »All you did was poke and soak and pop shields, you even died. You did little in the way of damage or buffing/debuffing. All I see is that tanking will be about keeping the gas tank full instead of actively steering the fight and supplemental dps. To any true tank your video is a point against the regen nerf.
You know what, you sound like you didnt even test this dungeon out in vet mode. Go ahead and do it before you can come here and lecture me.
If you want to sway a tank like me, make a video that actually looks like you did something. I have been tanking since day one and a long beta pull so I see what you did and did not do with absolute clarity. What went on in that video is the play style I see from new players who joined the game after the vet difficulty nerf. You know the soft ones who don't know more than hack and slash. Read through my comments on all these kinds of posts and I have an answer for every "remedy" for this regen nerf.
Common ones are use Earthen Heart. ok well half those skills are useless in a dungeon especially vs. a boss. Not to mention they are expensive and have reduced effectiveness for stamina builds. Repentance and shards? Repentance requires corpses and both require that players use, have and are willing to cycle it into their Dps or healing routines. You know dps are all about posting stats in chat. Evil Hunter? Requires moderate stamina and undead for CHANCE for stamina. I "lecture" you because I wrote chapters of the book on how to tank.
Look I dont have time to read everyone's posts. You come here only to criticize with a few lines on a meaningless post you will be shelfed in the 'troll' zone.
Now at least you bring some constructive comments.
Earthen Hearth: you could use igneous Shield. Gives more Healing received, has a dmg shield comparable str to Sun Shield. Can be used right before a boss' heavy hitting attack. With good magika regen and a magika pool of 17-20k, you could ise it often. I think the CD on this passive is 3 secs but I could be wrong. Could be used every 5-10 secs.
I love repentence for trash. I run it if my healer doesnt. Only problem is during bossfights where there are no adds.
For evil hunter, if you had a dot ability you could sustain that would tick for every 0.5 seconds, then it could be great to help sustain it. Although I *think* caltrops doesnt proc Evil hunter anymore. So we might need to find an alternative. Some people say that reflected dmg from Spiked Bone Shield procs evil hunter. Could be tested. I dunno I havent wrote the book of tanking,
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
There you go again, another point against, less magicka for replenishment of stamina and peripheral actions. Balance takes a hit for compensation.[/quote]
Person asked my for a NB stam base tank build.I simply answered.
Stop taking out of context stuff to prove whatever.
What the hell are you trying to prove? That you have a bigger pair?0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Can you try this as a stamina build NB Tank without shard support ?
Going to try on a tank NB using new Willow's Path for all 3 regen with 17k Stam.
Will be weird and clucky due to not having bubbles. Was all about having shadow barrier on, staying of ref. path, relying on 60% mitigation ult. Oh and the dodge ability.
I must admit I have an amazing healer.
Going up to 20+k stam could benefit you as it takes more hits to drain all the way to zero.
Damage reduction debuff on enemies, Bolstering Darkness for 60% reduction on dmg taken for 14 seconds - you will not need to hold block during this period guaranteed. Should be easy to regen full stamina & then tank until you have Bolstering Darkness up again for recovering stamina.
Just theorycrafting here
I would really like to test it out. I dont have enough experience with NB tanks to claim if it would work without doing a test drive on pts.0 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭Re-read what you just typed and I already countered it above and you mistake the truth for "trolling". Do not tell me you lack the time to read these post because you are baby sitting this thread as much as I am. I can criticize all of this easily because your whole argument has more holes than a good block of Swiss cheese. A tanks way of life may be at risk so it my duty to cut down arguments trying to justify these extremist changes with poor logic and novice advice.Edited by nordsavage on August 19, 2015 2:33PMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.1
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Instant✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Now try that on the Axes in AA HM.
Their attack speed is so slow its laughable. Can use jabs in between for trolling purposes.
I guess you have a heal constantly spamming healing spring on you, no?
90% of tank does. If I would run it with only 1 Healer, Would not be doing it with biting jabs. Would most likely slot a heal myself, use engine guardian, ask for a dps templar 1 or 2 spears every 10 secs or so.
But there is a way to block only their huge and slow attacks.
Synergies have a 20s cooldown afaik.
And yes of course there is a way but it's pointless because as soon as there are 3 axes because you won't get a single regen tick.
So you get 3 axes at what, the end of the fight? How long you think you will have 3 axes on you? 30 secs? I'm pretty sure worst case senario a ressource pool of 15k stam can manage it with zero regen if you have the right reduc block cost setup. That is, if you are not using engine guardian/blockrose/dodge or other tools like that.
You could also cheeze the E.G. on a templar by spamming a lot of low cost abilities like Channel Focus to make it proc then use repentence on its dead body.
Plus I dont have the numbers of axe's damage but I'd be curious to see if I can pop a bubble/armor buff, sustain the unblocked damage for 1 heavy attack, then keep on blocking to sustain 3 axes longer. Would have to time it so I dont get hit by 2 or 3 at the same time.
I have 3 axes on me until a fourth one spawns. I don't know how long that takes.
No dodge roll you say? Nice! Unlike other tanks i use dodge rolls to further reduce the incoming damage. (i only dodge heavy attacks but with the zero stam regen i won't be doing that anymore leading to less interactive tanking)
Engine Guardian is unreliable and black rose is a *** set because you won't be able to hardcap armor in combination with footman.
I hope that EG and repentance *** is a joke. Do you really want to be doing something like that just to be able to do your job.
Keeping the tanks ressources up! Looks like some people want that to be the focus in this game.
I think heavy attack from axe is 15k-20k, but please learn the basics of tanking before trying some crazy moves like using a bubble in order to not have to block a heavy attack from an axe.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.1 -
myrrrorb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Not too bad. I was pretty sure tanking could be done with the new system, but some major changes by the play style need to happen. I was thinking a magica build might be the way to go on tanking now. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.
My main concern with the change is that we don't have a lot of good tanks. Especially on consol... And this change is really raising the bar for skill while tanking quite a bit. If the new tactics that need to be used are going to be a large learning curve (I'm saying how difficult it will be since I havent played with it too much), it may turn off current mediocre tanks and may discourage new tanks.
I'm currently running a healer, but may switch to tank to try it out since it sounds rather challenging.
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Re-read what you just typed and I already countered it above and you mistake the truth for "trolling". Do not tell me you lack the time to read these post because you are baby sitting this thread as much as I am. I can criticize all of this easily because your whole argument has more holes than a good block of Swiss cheese. A tanks way of life may be at risk so it my duty to cut down arguments trying to justify these extremist changes with poor logic and novice advice.
You can criticize easily because its easy and your a monday morning quarterback.
You are all talk yet your are empty inside.
The troll shows its true colors. You not having brough a single valid point, advice or feedback. Now excuse me but go troll another high school backyard.Edited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 2:48PM1 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great job testing. This should help a lot of tanks out there for sure.NA Server - Kildair1 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭
I see you lost the fight in logic and now you resort to flaming. You are mad because you foolishly did not expect opposition on a heated topic in which you clearly lack understanding of its ramifications. You instead found a staunch and articulate defender of the counter point. You should have fired with both barrels son.houimetub17_ESO wrote: »nordsavage wrote: »Re-read what you just typed and I already countered it above and you mistake the truth for "trolling". Do not tell me you lack the time to read these post because you are baby sitting this thread as much as I am. I can criticize all of this easily because your whole argument has more holes than a good block of Swiss cheese. A tanks way of life may be at risk so it my duty to cut down arguments trying to justify these extremist changes with poor logic and novice advice.
You can criticize easily because its easy and your a monday morning quarterback.
You are all talk yet your are empty inside.
The troll shows its true colors. You not having brough a single valid point, advice or feedback. Now excuse me but go troll another high school backyard.I didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.2 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Now try that on the Axes in AA HM.
Their attack speed is so slow its laughable. Can use jabs in between for trolling purposes.
I guess you have a heal constantly spamming healing spring on you, no?
90% of tank does. If I would run it with only 1 Healer, Would not be doing it with biting jabs. Would most likely slot a heal myself, use engine guardian, ask for a dps templar 1 or 2 spears every 10 secs or so.
But there is a way to block only their huge and slow attacks.
Synergies have a 20s cooldown afaik.
And yes of course there is a way but it's pointless because as soon as there are 3 axes because you won't get a single regen tick.
So you get 3 axes at what, the end of the fight? How long you think you will have 3 axes on you? 30 secs? I'm pretty sure worst case senario a ressource pool of 15k stam can manage it with zero regen if you have the right reduc block cost setup. That is, if you are not using engine guardian/blockrose/dodge or other tools like that.
You could also cheeze the E.G. on a templar by spamming a lot of low cost abilities like Channel Focus to make it proc then use repentence on its dead body.
Plus I dont have the numbers of axe's damage but I'd be curious to see if I can pop a bubble/armor buff, sustain the unblocked damage for 1 heavy attack, then keep on blocking to sustain 3 axes longer. Would have to time it so I dont get hit by 2 or 3 at the same time.
I have 3 axes on me until a fourth one spawns. I don't know how long that takes.
No dodge roll you say? Nice! Unlike other tanks i use dodge rolls to further reduce the incoming damage. (i only dodge heavy attacks but with the zero stam regen i won't be doing that anymore leading to less interactive tanking)
Engine Guardian is unreliable and black rose is a *** set because you won't be able to hardcap armor in combination with footman.
I hope that EG and repentance *** is a joke. Do you really want to be doing something like that just to be able to do your job.
Keeping the tanks ressources up! Looks like some people want that to be the focus in this game.
I think heavy attack from axe is 15k-20k, but please learn the basics of tanking before trying some crazy moves like using a bubble in order to not have to block a heavy attack from an axe.
Man if your raids has so low dps that 4th axe comes up, it tells me that your raid is inexperienced.
That being said, you would be a fuckng *** to think that I rely 100% on EG and repentance. But if *** hits the fan, I have more than one tool in my arsenal.
Plus I already stated that those tips are for bad tanks. Black rose is going to be for those who cant run heavy attacks to regen therefore bad tanks. Im giving tips there only.2 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »Not too bad. I was pretty sure tanking could be done with the new system, but some major changes by the play style need to happen. I was thinking a magica build might be the way to go on tanking now. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.
My main concern with the change is that we don't have a lot of good tanks. Especially on consol... And this change is really raising the bar for skill while tanking quite a bit. If the new tactics that need to be used are going to be a large learning curve (I'm saying how difficult it will be since I havent played with it too much), it may turn off current mediocre tanks and may discourage new tanks.
I'm currently running a healer, but may switch to tank to try it out since it sounds rather challenging.
Good tanks are going to emerge. Changes arent as bad as people think really and from this point most tanks are going to be practicing and improving.2 -
Murmeltier✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Tanking in 2.1: it is possible:
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins,
Healer not templar with shards
"player XYZ kicked from group"
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins
- "healer link your weapons"
Anything but not Master Resto staff
"Player XYZ kicked from group"
All for the good of long term health of game.
As a VR14 Templar Healer i can confirm this. The Stamina Regeneration changes will hit the Healers very hard too.
1. Tanks dont block so often because they want to build up Stamina. Sometimes there are to many Effects or Enemys on the Screen, so you cant see all the Moves that will hit you. They get bigger hits and i have to heal more often. That lowers my Rescources more then before.
2. Tanks demands the Shards* (insert other skill*) for the Support. That cost me minimum one Skillslot, that i cant use for my Magicka Management or Heals.
3. It lowers the Time i have to manage my Rescources.
4. Guilds/Raids will demand Masterstaffs or Special Skills, Equip for Raids. That lowers my Option to build my own Ideas, i will transform into a Templar Healer - Zombie, without own Will.
5. Healing in Trashmobs without blockcasting, because the Stamina is to fast away? Yay, all Healers want this Action, we are bored too. Now try this as a Dps, stay in a Trashmob and bomb it, without Stamina. Several Aoes, 2h Swinging Mobs and maybe a Dragonknight Standard like in Spindleclutch, have Fun.
Learn to block in a Trashmob, no perma blocking, only block if one of the 5+ Mobs trys to hit you with a deadly Attack. You cant see the deadly Attacks because of the many Effects, then you have to learn to adapt it. If not, some Groups & Raids could kick you out.
Yeah, sure you can see this and move out of this, because you are faster then the "Flash". I see this all Days, again and again. Perfect Movement from "perfect" Dps Players
.
Is it impossible, no but harder then before. The Healers have to adapt this but as a Dps you have to learn this too, if not you are only a red Spot on the Floor.
Dont Forget, not every Group is a Pro Group in VDSA, where the Tactics are so save that the most Mobs cant hit back.
So as a Dps, only block if a big Hit is incoming, if you fail you are dead. But perma blocking is so boring, you will love these Changes. Learn to adapt this. If not you will die because the Healer is supporting the Tank, manage his Rescources and have no Time for weak Movement or Blocking-Skills. He cant heal Onehit-Wonders.
As a DD you better give up some Dps and raise your Hitpoints & Defenses, Guilds could demand this too.
Edited by Murmeltier on August 19, 2015 3:08PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.Edited by DDuke on August 19, 2015 3:01PM4 -
Instant✭✭✭✭✭I never assumed you rely on EG and repentance only. I just don't get why we tanks have to play this "how do i get stamina while blocking" minigame now. The game was fine with stamina reg while blocking for more than a year and now suddenly we get this ubernerf for no reason. Ok, i admit, some guy from zeni who has clearly no clue about tanking said that they wanted tanking to be more interactive. If it was true that this is not just a cheap attempt to fix permablocking in pvp and if they really wanted to make tanking more interactive then i wonder why they made the cleave from the serpent in sanctum ophidia blockable. Before update 6 you had to move out of it in time. Right now you can ignore it. Same with the overfiend (first boss in imperial city prison) who also had an unblockable attack before patch 2.1.1 where you had to become creative. The zero stam reg doesn't prevent permablocking. I never said that. But it leaves you with far less options. Take a look at the manticora for example. I won't be using heroic slash anymore because it costs too much stamina, this leaves me with one less skill i have to keep an eye on making my tanking much more fun and interacitve. Also i won't be dodging the heavy attacks anymore for the same reason. As you can see that makes it less interacitve. Placing the ring of preservation when boss does his stomp during his poison phase.... yea you get it, costs too much stamina, but hey it's more fun and interactive so i ain't complaining.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.3
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Murmeltier✭✭✭✭It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Edited by Murmeltier on August 19, 2015 3:29PM4 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Tanking in 2.1: it is possible:
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins,
Healer not templar with shards
"player XYZ kicked from group"
- "LF1M healer"
Healer joins
- "healer link your weapons"
Anything but not Master Resto staff
"Player XYZ kicked from group"
All for the good of long term health of game.
As a VR14 Templar Healer i can confirm this. The Stamina Regeneration changes will hit the Healers very hard too.
1. Tanks dont block so often because they want to build up Stamina. Sometimes there are to many Effects or Enemys on the Screen, so you cant see all the Moves that will hit you. They get bigger hits and i have to heal more often. That lowers my Rescources more then before.
2. Tanks demands the Shards* (insert other skill*) for the Support. That cost me minimum one Skillslot, that i cant use for my Magicka Management or Heals.
3. It lowers the Time i have to manage my Rescources.
4. Guilds/Raids will demand Masterstaffs or Special Skills, Equip for Raids. That lowers my Option to build my own Ideas, i will transform into a Templar Healer - Zombie, without own Will.
5. Healing in Trashmobs without blockcasting, because the Stamina is to fast away? Yay, all Healers want this Action, we are bored too. Now try this as a Dps, stay in a Trashmob and bomb it, without Stamina. Several Aoes, 2h Swinging Mobs and maybe a Dragonknight Standard like in Spindleclutch, have Fun.
Learn to block in a Trashmob, no perma blocking, only block if one of the 5+ Mobs trys to hit you with a deadly Attack. You cant see the deadly Attacks because of the many Effects, then you have to learn to adapt it. If not, some Groups & Raids could kick you out.
Yeah, sure you can see this and move out of this, because you are faster then the "Flash". I see this all Days, again and again. Perfect Movement from "perfect" Dps Players .
Is it impossible, no but harder then before. The Healers have to adapt this but as a Dps you have to learn this too, if not you are only a red Spot on the Floor.
Dont Forget, not every Group is a Pro Group in VDSA, where the Tactics are so save that the most Mobs cant hit back.
So as a Dps, only block if a big Hit is incoming, if you fail you are dead. But perma blocking is so boring, you will love these Changes. Learn to adapt this. If not you will die because the Healer is supporting the Tank, manage his Rescources and have no Time for weak Movement or Blocking-Skills. He cant heal Onehit-Wonders.
As a DD you better give up some Dps and raise your Hitpoints & Defenses, Guilds could demand this too.
I wont say it will be that much harder for healers. Were at the state of IFS and MAYBES.
I said it before, I have 2 great healers that runs end game content with me. I never really need to call out for spears. They just do it when they can and so far its been working wonders.
Also, were run around 1 huge assumption : that tanks will still be blocking 100% of the time.
Actually you will see tanks who are OK with stam/blocking that will not required that much those spears. Its just that now you will see a wide range of tanks with different strengt/weaknesses.
Remember 1 thing: Spears is only 1 way to regen stam while blocking. There are many others, most of which have been discussed already in these posts.
Another assumption were making is that tanks will need shards 24/7.
You will encounter tanks who will be built right have have the right gameplay to be able to survive without Shards. I'm sure in 1 month, most good endgame tank wont be requesting actively shards.
Same with healers with masterstaff.
Then again, your right, with the changes, the learning curve will be very steep. I think at the beginning things like shards and master resto staff will help but as players will progress, you will be able to replace those for more variety.
I feel like ZoS wants people to practice a lot more to master their role. Look at vdsa and look at how long it took for 1 group to clear it. Then look at how long it took for the majority people to clear it. I think that is their plan/projection. Everyone will end up clearing the content, but not right away. Therefore I think there is still a lot in there for less hardcore players.
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Murmeltier wrote: »It's funny how these "forum tanks" now show up and try to berate the OP for doing something they can not
So funny.
If you are absorbing damage, tanking the bosses & trash pack and thus preventing your group mates from dying, then you are tanking. It doesn't matter if there's a healer spamming healing springs on you, or a templar throwing spears at you.
I mean, why should tanks require healing or support? Outrageous!
Healers are there only for the DPS!
Now, if you can't do the same as OP (tank), then that simply makes the OP a better tank than you, no matter how much you try to refute his points.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is funny too how these "Forum Healers" try to explain what a Full Healer have to do, more of this crazy Stuff please. It is totally uninteresting what you mean a Healer have to do, if you arent a Pro on this Job.
Another " A Healer have to do this and that, because he has to Support" Commentary. The most Healers Support with Healing, Buffs or Dps but the changes cost more Rescources and Skill-Slots, easy it is.
Dude I will never say anothing against healers until I can heal everyone's butts by myself. They are like wives, try not to anger them.
But to know how they work is benefitial for a tank as it helps you synergize with them even more. As I tank I communicate a lot more during fights with the healers as other dps. I'm always like : can I do this, do you need that, I can manage this myself, you can focus on that
Then again, its my playstyle. I run BoL on my templar, Igneous Shield on my DK and back up the healer as much as I canEdited by Kupoking on August 19, 2015 3:38PM0 -
Apokh✭✭✭✭✭For dks, for nbs for sorcs ...shards was only ONE example. Perhaps a good reason to read your skill descriptions and put the puzzle together. Shards is not the key, it is just for "emergency". You have to manage your ressources yourself, just as anybody else. You cannot stand yor self on the point: i tank, you manage my ressources for me. But you will (like before) have to act as group. Thats evading damage for all members, thats keepeing damage away from the group for tanks, thats support for the supporter/healer, thats doing hi dps for dds. When someone does not want to do his job, then he should just stay at home and gather nirncrux or stuff.
The one argument alway coming is "what if ...".but groups only work as groups when they play together and Communicate.
Why should the op try it with a nb tank? When you play nb tank try yourseld, you can access the pts too and sure have more xperience with the class.
Someone inthe DE forums has a good sentence " the only challenge to take on tanking is not to doze away". To not regen stamina is much more "realistic" if you want so. If you think its a minigame, then ask thebdds what their job ihas been tha last year. Watching the dots, attackweving and animation canceling is quiet the same.Edited by Apokh on August 19, 2015 3:52PMLegenden
Play@Feierabend mit der legendärsten Feierabendgilde.
Besuch uns.
Es ist besser zu schweigen und alle glauben zu lassen, man sei dumm, als den Mund aufzumachen und alle Zweifel zu beseitigen.0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭For dks, for nbs for sorcs ...shards was only ONE example. And shards is not the key, it is just for "emergency". You have to manage your ressources yourself, just as anybody else. You cannot stand yor self on the point: intank, you manage my ressources for me. But you will (like before) have to act as group. Thats evading damage for all members, thats keepeing damage away from the group for tanks, thats support for the supporter/healer, thats doing hi dps for dds. When someone does not want to do his job, then he should just stay at home and gather nirncrux or stuff.
The one argument alway coming is "what if ...".but groups only work as groups when they play together and Communicate.
Why should the op try it with a nb tank? When you play nb tank try yourseld, you can access the pts too and sure have more xperience with the class.
True all the way.
I was going to try NB tank anyways so why not.0
