Vampires needing to slot ability to much of a punishment?

Cherryblossom · August 2015

much easier for Vamps,

As mentioned by many sloting Mist Form is really not an issue, and Bat's Ultimate is still great so no real issue slotting an ability.

WW has lack luster skills and it's really only the Stam regen that makes it worthwhile.

I would question the thinking behind the need to have something slotted! So are ZOS actually saying that without a skill slotted you are no longer a Vamp or WW?? Does that mean if they are not slotted I don't get the disadvantage as well?

To make things more interesting as a WW they should make it so every full moon you always transform whether you have the ultimate or not, that would make things so much more interesting.

Vamps should get to a point where they start to lose health because they haven't fed, so they have to feed!!!

Halke · August 2015

Cherryblossom wrote: »

much easier for Vamps,

As mentioned by many sloting Mist Form is really not an issue, and Bat's Ultimate is still great so no real issue slotting an ability.

WW has lack luster skills and it's really only the Stam regen that makes it worthwhile.

I would question the thinking behind the need to have something slotted! So are ZOS actually saying that without a skill slotted you are no longer a Vamp or WW?? Does that mean if they are not slotted I don't get the disadvantage as well?

To make things more interesting as a WW they should make it so every full moon you always transform whether you have the ultimate or not, that would make things so much more interesting.

Vamps should get to a point where they start to lose health because they haven't fed, so they have to feed!!!

As a werewolf you have never had your disadvantages unless you were in wolf form.

demendred · August 2015

Clarebear wrote: »

Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense (not that I fully agree with it I think WW need rebalanced) to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form.

So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

Please don't argue with people or just dismiss how someone feels regarding this topic. Please feel free to discuss the topic with Constructive Feedback. I would like this post to be Constructive and Useful to the community .

Patch Notes Link http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/p1

Werewolf
You can now safely press the button for the werewolf ultimate repeatedly without fear of immediately reverting back to normal again.
Removed Stamina Regeneration from Lycanthropy; it now requires Werewolf Transformation to be slotted in your ability bar.
Reduced the poison damage you receive while in Werewolf form to 25% from 40%.
Fixed an issue which was allowing Negate Magic to pull Werewolves out of Werewolf Form.
Fixed an issue where heavy attacks would play twice before striking your target while in werewolf form.
You can no longer fish or use the dye station while in werewolf form.
Devour: This ability can no longer target a destroyed Aura of Protection totem.
Infectious Claws (Claws of Anguish morph): Fixed an issue where the healing debuff was stacking with other healing debuffs.
Savage Strength (passive): This passive will no longer will be removed when your character is killed.

Vampire
Reduced the fire damage you receive to 25% from 40%.
Drain Essence: This ability now restores 10% of your health every second, and stuns your target on activation. It can be used on CC-immune targets, and can be used all the time (it no longer activates the Feed debuff).
Supernatural Recovery (passive): This passive now only works while any Vampire ability is slotted in your ability bar.

No, they don't.

Mitchblue · August 2015

Can't be any worse than having a Sorc pet build and have both pets slotted on both bars..

Live with it.

Halke · August 2015

Mitchblue wrote: »

Can't be any worse than having a Sorc pet build and have both pets slotted on both bars..

Live with it.

I would actually be okay with having something like that, if vamps didn't take their negatives even without skills slotted.

A proper analogy would be if being a sorc gave you 15% magicka recovery as a passive but it also gave you 10% less max magicka. Some people would choose sorc for that trade off. Then the update would make is so you only got your recovery if you had a pet slotted on both bars or were using the atronach ulti (so that there are only three choices). Even without those slotted you still have less magicka, and slotting them doesn't give you some new bonus.

bcwhiteh_ESO · August 2015

This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

Call a spade a spade.

And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

I don't even see how anyone could consider having to slot a Vampire ability a bad thing in the first place since literally every Vampire uses at least 1 skill. I mean really what kind of Vampire runs around Cyrodiil without that Mist Form skill slotted? Excluding the Vampires that are not high enough level in the skill line that is. Not to mention I've seen Vampires in Cyrodiil use the Ultimate skill as well and personally I believe having that drain skill you start with slotted is not a disadvantage especially with the upcoming patch.

acw37162 · August 2015

It's a bad idea for both.

WW much more then vampire. Vampire's have three choices two of the choices represent two of the best ten skills in the game. Bats is one of the best ultimates in the game and can turn you invisible or heal you. Mist form is maybe the second best damage mitigation power in the game with morphs for major expidition and bonus poison damage.

Plus you still gain access to the undeath passives, health recovery regen passive, and sneak passive a without sloting an ability.

WW has to slot an ultimate of which you only get two to gain combat stamina regen.

Tell me again how vampire is gettin punished worse then wolf?

It's a bad idea all around in my opinion but vampire comes out like champion compared to WW, again!

nine9six · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Kobaal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.

Do you.....

Because I...

Holy ***, look! A difference in opinions.

bcwhiteh_ESO · August 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

I don't even see how anyone could consider having to slot a Vampire ability a bad thing in the first place since literally every Vampire uses at least 1 skill. I mean really what kind of Vampire runs around Cyrodiil without that Mist Form skill slotted? Excluding the Vampires that are not high enough level in the skill line that is. Not to mention I've seen Vampires in Cyrodiil use the Ultimate skill as well and personally I believe having that drain skill you start with slotted is not a disadvantage especially with the upcoming patch.

There is a game beyond Cyrodiil, FYI.

I'm a vamp, and purely for the magicka regen. I don't have any room on either bar for a useless vamp ability in PvE.

leepalmer95 · August 2015

bcwhiteh_ESO wrote: »

This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

Call a spade a spade.

And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

why would someone even go a vamp if they didn't use the skills?

I'm so confused you obviously use the skills as thats the main point of a vamp being able to use vamp skills on a normal bar.

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

Devouring swarm is such a great Ultimate, Aoe which heals and moves with you? , why don't people slot it, even if you have a main dps skill this is still a great defensive one..

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

bcwhiteh_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

I don't even see how anyone could consider having to slot a Vampire ability a bad thing in the first place since literally every Vampire uses at least 1 skill. I mean really what kind of Vampire runs around Cyrodiil without that Mist Form skill slotted? Excluding the Vampires that are not high enough level in the skill line that is. Not to mention I've seen Vampires in Cyrodiil use the Ultimate skill as well and personally I believe having that drain skill you start with slotted is not a disadvantage especially with the upcoming patch.

There is a game beyond Cyrodiil, FYI.

I'm a vamp, and purely for the magicka regen. I don't have any room on either bar for a useless vamp ability in PvE.

Most people go Vampire for the PvP benefit same as people went Werewolf for the Stamina Recovery. I am aware people do choose for reasons other than that but for those that do there really is no penalty since they use the skills readily. Even in PvE the skills can have merit but whether you choose to use them or not is up to you though.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

It may not be the most reliable escape skill out there but it is one.

leepalmer95 · August 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

It may not be the most reliable escape skill out there but it is one.

I don't think anyone has actually escaped from me when they went mist, i kind of just walked behind them until they ran out of mana and killed them.

Corpsage · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

bcwhiteh_ESO wrote: »

This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

Call a spade a spade.

And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

why would someone even go a vamp if they didn't use the skills?

I'm so confused you obviously use the skills as thats the main point of a vamp being able to use vamp skills on a normal bar.

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

Devouring swarm is such a great Ultimate, Aoe which heals and moves with you? , why don't people slot it, even if you have a main dps skill this is still a great defensive one..

The answer is simple, none of the abilities are as viable for damage output OR healing as class/weapon skills.

nine9six · August 2015

Corpsage wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

bcwhiteh_ESO wrote: »

This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

Call a spade a spade.

And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

why would someone even go a vamp if they didn't use the skills?

I'm so confused you obviously use the skills as thats the main point of a vamp being able to use vamp skills on a normal bar.

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

Devouring swarm is such a great Ultimate, Aoe which heals and moves with you? , why don't people slot it, even if you have a main dps skill this is still a great defensive one..

The answer is simple, none of the abilities are as viable for damage output OR healing as class/weapon skills.

THIS!

When I'm out PvEing in the open world, having one ability on my bar is fine. I can live with that. The Ult is on my bar 90% of the time during this.

When I do anything group-related (Healer) I have 0 reasons to have any of the skills slotted.

nine9six · August 2015

Double Post

Halke · August 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Corpsage wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

bcwhiteh_ESO wrote: »

This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

Call a spade a spade.

And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

why would someone even go a vamp if they didn't use the skills?

I'm so confused you obviously use the skills as thats the main point of a vamp being able to use vamp skills on a normal bar.

Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

Devouring swarm is such a great Ultimate, Aoe which heals and moves with you? , why don't people slot it, even if you have a main dps skill this is still a great defensive one..

The answer is simple, none of the abilities are as viable for damage output OR healing as class/weapon skills.

THIS!

When I'm out PvEing in the open world, having one ability on my bar is fine. I can live with that. The Ult is on my bar 90% of the time during this.

When I do anything group-related (Healer) I have 0 reasons to have any of the skills slotted.

Just going to quote you for the amount of truth in this.

myrrrorb14_ESO · August 2015

So, since I'm not a vampire unless I have an abililty slotted, I don't have any of the negative effects (fire susceptibility, health regen penalty, and fighters guild vulnerability)?

I like being a vampire, I don't use the active abilities often, but its pretty cool. I don't need the magicka regen, its nice but not necessary. I just want these changes to make sense. If they want to balance it great go ahead. The skill line takes a bit of xp to advance and the pros seem in balance with the cons to me.

Maybe add a transformation ultimate similar to the werewolf, only have it work in reverse. As you advance in the stages, you should become more primal. Once you hit stage 5 you automatically transform at which point you can only use vamp abilities, since you are too hungry for blood to properly concentrate to use ability or weapon skills. The ultimate would represent putting forth extraordinary effort to regain control and would knock you down one level, but decrease the timer to advance the rank.

Personally I didn't see an issue with vamps. And I love the extra dam i do to them in pvp lol.

Werewolves on the otherhand were meh. I thought they should have more, but at least they were easy to level and play.

Athas24 · August 2015

Honestly on my WW I always have one bar with the WW ability slotted for ult. I don't have both but I do have one. I don't think it's that big of a deal for them. On my vamp however, I only have 1 ability on my primary bar. My secondary doesn't but now I'll put one on there for my batswarm. It's honestly sort of foolish to make vampires slot an ability since their weakness is Always there, unlike on my WW who doesn't always suffer from the weakness to poison unless he's in form. Just my two cents. As a prequel up to all the WW and vampire haters out their... my main isn't one of either. She's just a plain ol breton sorc

MornaBaine · August 2015

The sad fact is that both vampires and werewolves need a huge and serious overhaul. This occasional tinkering that usually just pi$$e$ people off needs to stop.

Shimmer · August 2015

except when im also forced to hog a slot with magelight, Im heals, and went vamp for the passives and ultimate (which is on my dps bar). Im a tad annoying that in order to play as i have been I will be forced to have TWO slots taken up now.

AshTal · August 2015

I view Vampires as a mistake in ESO. These are blood sucking fiends created by Molag Bal. The guards shouldn't let them walk around in cities and the fighters guild should hunt them. Right now it seems that every other person is either a vampire or a werewolf.

That said one of the big issues with Vampires is that in ESO a vampire could be considered Vampire lite. Sure they don't like being set on fire (then again who does) and they have to drink blood. However they don't burst into flames in daylight, they are treated just like everyone else in the city and they aren't neatly un-killable without cutting their heads off or setting them on fire. Vampires are in ESO because people wanted them but they had to be toned down to such a level that they didn't over power all non vampires. They are at such a stage where most people are un-happy with them, either they are too weak or they are too powerful it seems no one is happy.

ThisOnePosts · August 2015

What they should do is add more Vampire active abilities, so that there's something useful for everyone who chooses one or more of their characters to be a vamp. Saying you must slot an ability to get a passive yet only giving you 2 choices of active abilities and 1 ultimate (which let's face it, you won't be running most end-game group content with batswarm on 2 bars and we know how glitchy passives CAN get when switching bars).

But nah ZOS, just sit back... while other smaller studios pump out content and just leave everything be.. there's not even a way to add more characters to your account or make appearance changes.. here we are in year 2. Not that I care for those things personally, but after reading these forums for so long you'd think it would've already been a thing but I bet it was held off until they can find a way to integrate it into the cash shop.

Go look at what Funcom does, take some notes, study them.. ask them for advice.. because a much smaller studio pumps out items of the month regularly, has several awesome events each year with new items, quests, etc... PLUS all the old stuff for new players or those who missed it, has Devs active in the community, and has had all of these things within the game for a while now, some of what I wrote since the start of The Secret World. We are in the 2nd year here in ESO (yes, not 2 years yet but still in the 2nd year) and not ONE SINGLE EVENT that wasn't held by an RP Guild or a Guild of sorts. Even GW2 has tons of events going regularly and ZOS has much more capabilities than ncSoft IMO, but caring about the community maybe much less of that (hopefully that's not the case but I'm going by what we've seen so far).

I like ZOS.. I like ESO, but they really need to step it up. Werewolves are still kinda a joke with needing it as an Ultimate which you can't even Toggle and now Vamp having just a few skills was not such a major concern, but needing to keep 1 of the very VERY limited choices on yours bars at all times makes me feel like people are being paid to come up with ideas to justify jobs which clearly aren't even necessary. Have whoever's idea it is, go come up with some useful abilities to have more to choose from and figure out what you did to make the Sorc ultimate Overload toggle and do that for WW.

GreySix · August 2015

"too"

Atarax · August 2015

I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I'm in favor of the changes to vamp and werewolf on paper.

Vamp:
-Drain becomes usable at any point, this skill will now be worth slotting as you damage your opponent while recovering health and stamina
-Fire damage reduced to 25%, so you can get back to base-line with resistances
-In order to get benefits you have to slot something, mist, bats, and drain are all now attractive.

WW:
-You get a 15% damage reduction while in WW form
-You need to have WW form slotted in order to get the usual stamina buff
-Butter, ww looks really attractive, they just need to make it so you can stay in form easier or get into form more quickly (lower the ultimate cost)

Having played both WW and Vamp, I like what they've done here.

Corpsage · August 2015

Atarax wrote: »

I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I'm in favor of the changes to vamp and werewolf on paper.

Vamp:
-Drain becomes usable at any point, this skill will now be worth slotting as you damage your opponent while recovering health and stamina
-Fire damage reduced to 25%, so you can get back to base-line with resistances
-In order to get benefits you have to slot something, mist, bats, and drain are all now attractive.

WW:
-You get a 15% damage reduction while in WW form
-You need to have WW form slotted in order to get the usual stamina buff
-Butter, ww looks really attractive, they just need to make it so you can stay in form easier or get into form more quickly (lower the ultimate cost)

Having played both WW and Vamp, I like what they've done here.

I also have both Werewolf and Vampire characters. Again, its not so much the changes being made as much as being forced to have an ability slotted I'll RARELY if EVER use. The real problem here is they are forcing you to put a skill on your bar where space is already an issue. Especially for us Magicka based classes. What is Drain going to do for me? I heal more effectively through class/weapon skills and don't use Stamina. Mist form is meh. Yes, in PvP it goes from meh to just OK (AGAIN, this is for a Magicka build) because while in Mist Form we DO NOT recover Magicka making it something I'd rather not cast as I need to be recovering Magicka as I'm spending it. Now for everyones favorite, Bat Swarm. Why would I ever replace Shooting Star/Ice Comet, Dawn Breaker, Solar Prison or even Rememberance. WHY?!?!?!?!? I don't want a DOT thats not as strong as other Ultimate abilities? Especially when I'm MORE than capable of healing myself in a pinch. Beyond that, why should I be forced to have an ability slotted when I'm 100% of the time a Vampire? I don't transform to gain buffs/debuffs they are active at all times. Should they all not work that way? With Werewolf, the passives not being in effect 100% of the time makes sense, because you don't run around the world in Werewolf form 100% of the time as we Vampire do. Granted I feel Werewolves SHOULD get a passive they feel 100% of their time in game, maybe boosted health regen in combat or something lore friendly and makes sense but this change coming to the Vampire side is just plain dumb.

Nifty2g · August 2015

Lore wise vampire is meant to be much worse, having everyone as a vampire and werewolf is breaking my immersion

Corpsage · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lore wise vampire is meant to be much worse, having everyone as a vampire and werewolf is breaking my immersion

Yes, I've played the other titles and realize this. Hard to compare this to previous TES titles though.

OzJohnD · August 2015